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Former Attorney for Donald Trump Michael Cohen Will be Cross- Examined for Second Day in Hush Money Criminal Trial; President Biden and Republican Presidential Nominee Donald Trump Agree to Two Presidential Debates; Details on How Candidates are Preparing for Historic First Debate; Wounded Slovakian PM in Intensive Care after Assassination Attempt. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 16, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So it is that. It's great to see you guys. Simon, thank you. Marc, thank you very much.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Former President Donald Trump heading back to court in just minutes. His lawyers plan to deploy a strategy against star prosecution witness Michael Cohen and the former fixer. You could call it the liar, liar plan as they focus on tearing down Cohen's credibility with the jury.

And a historic debate on multiple levels. The candidates have agreed to the earliest debate in history and the first presidential rematch since the 1950s. Save the date. It will happen here on CNN, June 27th.

And a Texas bridge is closed out after a barge slammed into it. We have details on the damage and how long it will take to reopen that bridge.

I'm Sara Sidner with Kate Bolduan and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: Minutes ago, Michael Cohen left for another round in the courthouse. And we're now T minus 90 minutes away from a morning that has the makings of some very fiery fireworks in Donald Trump's criminal trial. What is going to happen today? Round two of Michael Cohens cross-examination will be getting back underway. And sources tell CNN for the first time today, Donald Trump's lawyers will directly go after testimony from Cohen about Trump's alleged falsification of business records. Testimony, the prosecution says, directly implicates Donald Trump across 34 criminal charges.

How does the defense challenge Cohen this time? And who will the jury believe? CNN's Brynn Gingras is outside the court for us with all of these details. Brynn, where are they going to go today?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, so they need to sow some reasonable doubt in jurors' minds about Cohen's credibility. Obviously, he is the witness in this case. He has told the entire narrative of what the prosecution said that these charges are against Donald Trump. And we're understanding from sources, our colleagues are hearing that Todd Blanche is really going to be zeroing in on things that Michael Cohen has said in the past, sometimes under oath, and challenging what he has said, trying to again reiterate to jurors that he really just cannot be trusted.

We're also understanding that he is going to be bringing up conversations that Michael Cohen has said he had with Donald Trump when it comes to these hush money payments. So that does look like to be what is going to be the focus of today, a little bit less attack dog, a little bit more focused on these charges that are against Donald Trump.

Now, as far as timing, we're understanding that Michael Cohen could be on the stand getting cross-examination for the entirety of today. As one source told our colleague Kara Scannell, they said that takes a long time to get through the lies. We're hearing it's possible this could even go into Monday, because tomorrow there is no court because of Barron Trump's graduation that Trump said -- sorry, the judge said that Trump could go to that, so there will be no court tomorrow.

So this could go into next week with Michael Cohen on the stand. We're understanding there's going to be about a half-a-dozen or so lawmakers who will be in the courtroom today again, supporting the former president as his former friend turned foe is on the stand. And then from there, we don't know yet. We know that the defense will have its turn. It's unclear who they will call. However, we do know that the defense attorneys are going to be asking a judge about some questions about what could be admissible if they call an expert witness. So that'll be addressed today in court as well. So it's possible we'll see the prosecution maybe rest at the beginning of next week, possibly today, but it's still unclear.

BOLDUAN: Great to see you, Brynn. Thank you so much for being outside court for us this morning. John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: With us now, CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor, Jennifer Rodgers. Jen, what we've heard from the defense so far is that Michael Cohen says naughty things about Donald Trump. Michael Cohen has made money off of Donald Trump. Now, we understand they're going to really push deeper into the idea that they will say Michael Cohen lies about a lot of things, including Donald Trump. Why?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, this is the undercurrent of their entire cross-examination, right? You can't believe what he says because he's a liar. So it was addressed on direct. Michael Cohen said multiple times that he did lie to protect Donald Trump. So I think we're going to see a series of his lines as and then pushback on the notion that it was for Donald Trump. They may say you were making good money. You wanted to please Donald Trump. You did this for your own purposes, not for his purposes.

There also has been in the past statements by Michael Cohen that Donald Trump talked a little like a mob boss, like he wouldn't give direct orders. So there may be questions about did he ever tell you to say that lie, that sort of thing to try to undercut this notion that it was all for him.

BERMAN: It's that last part that I'm really interested in, because on the first day of cross, I don't think once Michael Cohen was asked about the substance of the charges, really either the payoffs to Stormy Daniels, the documents accounting for the payoffs to Stormy Daniels, any of it.

[08:05:05]

So how specific are not specific do you think the defense wants to get today?

RODGERS: They have to get pretty specific because Michael Cohen is the only witness who directly implicates Trump in this, the reimbursement part of it, right, the notion that Donald Trump actually directed the reimbursement illegally. So they have to get into that.

One of the issues is going to be you're the only one who says this. You've lied about all these things. You're the only one who is there. How convenient is that? I expect Michael Cohen will say, well, actually, Allen Weisselberg also was there. Then we've got that elephant in the room about what the judge is going to instruct the jury as to his absence from this proceeding.

BERMAN: What happens then?

RODGERS: I think they'll get what's called an unavailable witness charge. The judge will say Allen Weisselberg is unavailable. He can't be called by either side. You are not to speculate why that is, and you're not to hold it against either side that he's not here.

BERMAN: Is there a risk, or how would you ask the question to Michael Cohen about a couple of the meetings that he has testified to where he says Donald Trump knew or ordered him to pay, Stormy Daniels, knew and/or ordered him, or was knowledgeable of the falsified documents scheme. I mean, how do you ask those questions?

RODGERS: Well, very skeptically, of course. First, you say that you were there, you say this, but you've said a lot of things that aren't true, right. Who else backs up that you were there talking about that. Who else, what else is there that basically corroborates you there? And for some of this stuff, particularly with the reimbursement scheme, there really isn't anything given that Allen Weisselberg is unavailable. I mean, they've put in things like there was a phone call around the time or it was on his calendar that they were going to meet, but that, of course, could be for anything, especially because their position is going to be they were paying him throughout this time to continue to be the personal lawyer.

BERMAN: What's the risk for the defense attorneys in the cross by addressing these specific moments?

RODGERS: Well, then Michael Cohen does what he has been prepped to do, right, to just come back and say, no, this is it. And I've said that from the beginning. I've said that since all of this came out and I publicly broke with Donald Trump. I've been telling everyone who asked me about this. I've been consistent on this. And it is backed up by things like when I went to see him, when we spoke on the phone, the notes of Allen Weisselberg on the form that we saw come in through the controller McConney, et cetera.

BERMAN: I suspect as we get later in the day today, there might be some gamesmanship going on here. Do you think the defense wants to make it last through the weekend so they get him on the stand for a second again on Monday? Do you think they want to turn it back to the prosecution for redirect, so they get something in the jury's head?

RODGERS: Well, certainly, as we get to the end of the day, they're going to want to hold onto him, because you always want that last take before the jury goes for a long weekend. But I think they would be better served by making it shorter, actually. I think part of what's happening here is they're listening to their client who wants to destroy Michael Cohen instead of think strategically about the case. So I do anticipate that they probably will hold onto him all day, as a combination of once it gets towards the end, you might as well do it, but also they're listening to Trump about how the cross should go.

BERMAN: A lot of procedural stuff that'll be worth paying attention to at the very end of the day. I think we'll all be on the edge of our seats wondering where this goes next. Jennifer Rodgers, thank you so much.

RODGERS: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Sara?

SIDNER: Yes, you got it.

Ahead, we are getting new details about the earliest presidential debate in modern history that will air right here on CNN. The stakes are sky high. How this debate will be different from the last time these two men debated.

And Slovakia's prime minister right now in intensive care after being shot multiple times in an assassination attempt. The latest on the gunman's possible motives.

And the pier creating a new path for humanitarian aid for the people of Gaza is near completion. How soon those aid trucks will be able to start crossing into the war-torn areas.

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[08:13:22]

SIDNER: All right, new for you this morning, President Biden and Former President Donald Trump now prepared to face off on stage six weeks from today in their first presidential debate of 2024. It is the earliest televised general election debate ever. June 27th, right here on CNN, there will be no live audience. CNN senior political analyst Mark Preston joins us now. First of all,

it seemed like from the public's perspective an insanely fast agreement between these two men who have debated before. You get this video from Biden, and then you get a Truth Social from Donald Trump, and it's all agreed to. How did this actually come together?

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it's interesting, certainly in the moment, it's like, wow, how are -- all of a sudden they're all in and they've agreed to do it. They've been signaling this for weeks if not months that they are at least willing to talk about debating. And also these debates just don't happen in a vacuum, or any of these big political events. We put an incredible amount of time into actually preparing for them. And if people knew how many events didn't happen, they'd probably be surprised for the events that do happen.

SIDNER: I do want to remind folks of the Biden-Trump 2020 debate where things went a little bit off the rails. Let's listen to what happened at that moment and then talk about it on the other end.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The question is, the question is --

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: -- Supreme Court justices, radical left.

BIDEN: Will you shut up, man?

TRUMP: Listen, who is on your list, Joe?

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Gentlemen, I think we've ended this --

TRUMP: He's going to pack the court --

(CROSS TALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Will you shut up, man? I did give a little bit of it away, but how will this debate be different from what we have seen in the past?

PRESTON: Well, in many ways, it will be different. In many ways, it will be the same, okay.

[08:15:00]

So, even the Commission on Presidential Debates who traditionally have been doing them, you know, certainly in the last 20 to 30 years, they did have audiences. They were just more potted plants. They didn't actually speak, but they were in the audience. It is not as if this is some groundbreaking thing that we're doing.

Look, we may see interruptions. I mean, that could happen. What's not going to be is the projection of the voices, and these debates, even though everyone thinks it happens in the room, it is really how it projects across on television and the millions and tens of millions of people who are going to watch it.

So, while so many people are really focused on the room, it is really focused on what these two gentlemen are going to say about how they're going to fix any of these problems that we are facing.

SIDNER: It is going to feel different from the ones that we have seen in recent history because the audience is sort of the third member of the debate to some --

PRESTON: It has been.

SIDNER: It has been.

PRESTON: And it has been since --

SIDNER: Yes.

PRESTON: You know, since I came here about 20 years ago where really debates started to come into their own, but they came into their own because of social media.

You know, people forget that this confluence of factors came together. We started to see more participation from voters, not just the 65- year-old grandmother who goes and knocks on doors.

We saw a lot of participation from younger kids and that is where we are now.

SIDNER: All right, I do want to ask you about this scenario. You've got the historic criminal trial against Donald Trump that is coming close to its end. We don't know exactly when it ends, but the prosecution expected to the rest its case very shortly here.

And then just weeks after, he could be convicted or acquitted in this trial, the debate happens. Is this a calculus for either of the candidates? What do you know about going forward here after this unprecedented trial?

PRESTON: Well, there is no question that the legal troubles that President Trump is facing right now is going to be a major part of the campaign.

I would think of that as just like another parallel road that is leading to Election Day, and what we are going to see on the night of the debate is -- hopefully, we will see is really a vigorous discussion about the issues.

You know, we have all the side shows from the campaigns and they're going to try to game, you know, us and game each other as they head into it. But really what it comes down to is the next day, the viral clips that come out of it and who is able to best explain how they are going to fix the problems we are facing. SIDNER: I want to ask you because you mentioned that the Presidential

Commission on Debates, they are usually the ones that are sort of over this, but they usually have the debate in September.

PRESTON: Right.

SIDNER: This is highly unusual. Is this an example of what we are going to see going forward?

PRESTON: I think it is crazy to make any predictions on that, and I know people are saying that now that that's the end of the CPD and what have you.

SIDNER: Because of early voting. I mean, you know --

PRESTON: Sure. Sure.

I have no idea. I have not -- look, I would love for the candidates to debate you know, with the CPD as well as, you know, debate on CNN every week, if we could, but we will just see how it all plays out.

SIDNER: Mark Preston, honest and all-in. We cannot wait to see what happens on June 27th, to remind people right here on CNN, that debate will happen.

PRESTON: We are going to see.

SIDNER: Kate.

BOLDUAN: An attempted assassination of Slovakia's prime minister, shot five times and then spent hours in emergency surgery. We have an update on his condition now and the ripple effects this is having a cross Europe.

Hundreds of protesters are surrounding a building at UC Irvine, some barricading themselves inside. Why the school's chancellor says that changed everything and what they're doing about it now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:22:39]

BOLDUAN: Slovakian Prime Minister Robert Fico is now recovering in intensive care after an attempted assassination yesterday. The hospital says that he is stable, but still in serious condition after a five-hour surgery.

In the last hour, the interior minister revealed that the suspect has been charged with attempted murder and police now say disagreements with the government's actions played a role in the attack.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is outside the hospital. He has much more.

Fred, what is the latest?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Kate.

One of the things that is giving this assassination attempt as the government calls it now, and has charged that suspect with attempted murder, an international dimension, and certainly one that goes across Europe is that they say, some of those so agreements that the attempted or alleged assassin had with the government were apparently also including the fact that Robert Fico's government was set on cutting off aid to Ukraine. That was one of the disagreements that he apparently had with the government of Roberts Fico.

And they say after the election of Robert Fico last year that he decided right after that election to carry out this assassination attempt.

Now there is one more important ripple to all of this, Kate, and that the government is now also saying this is in the form of the interior minister, that this person was not part of some wider network, but rather this was a lone wolf who had these disagreements with the government and so therefore, they don't think that there is a wider group behind all this.

Nevertheless, one of the things that we do have to mention that Slovakia, like a couple of other European countries actually as well, they do have pretty deep divisions in their society and they are quite concerned that all of this could make those divisions even worse, and as far as Robert Fico is concerned, you're absolutely right, he is trying to recover here in this hospital in the northern part of Slovakia.

They came out earlier today and they said that he was in surgery for around five hours because the wounds that he suffered from being shot point-blank. We of course saw that very troubling video of him being then brought into that car and then later helicopter here to this hospital.

The wounds were so complicated that it required two teams of surgeons to come to terms with it. He is now still in the intensive care unit and obviously, the government is saying the situation is still very dramatic around Robert Fico -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Fred, thank you so much for being there. We will get updates throughout the morning -- John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, a new message from Nikki Haley to the supporters who keep voting for her despite the fact that she is no longer running for president.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So this morning, a new sign from Nikki Haley on her plans for a political future after her zombie campaign stole double-digit percentages of votes for Donald Trump in recent primaries.

She hosted a gathering of key donors. One attendee described it as an investor conference.

With us now, CNN's Daniel Strauss.

Daniel, what are you learning about what she is saying?

DANIEL STRAUSS, CNN REPORTER: I mean, specifically, she is not being very committal at this moment.

She is not casting down or directly addressing her political future, allowing her supporters at this donor event to speculate and really her encourage her about running again in the future or possibly having some other prominent role in government.

[08:30:27]