Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Federal Judge Found "Strong Evidence" Of Crimes Before Donald Trump Charged In Classified Documents Case; Deaths Reported In Iowa Due To Severe Weather As Search And Rescue Efforts Continue; Spain, Norway And Ireland To Recognize A Palestinian State; Families Of Israeli Women Soldiers Release Video Of Hamas Abduction. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 22, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:49]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Back in court and not backing down. Donald Trump's legal team trying to get his classified documents case thrown out after multiple delays as the judge criticizes a recent move by the prosecution.

Plus, a path of destruction, deadly tornadoes ripping through Iowa. A storm system still threatening people all the way from Texas to Vermont.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: And as one passenger on that Singapore Airlines Flight says he's lucky to be alive, new questions about exactly what happened. We'll speak to the Miracle on the Hudson hero, Sully Sullenberger, about the terrible turbulence that shook Tuesday's flight.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: We're following major developments this afternoon in former President Donald Trump's classified documents case. I'm Boris Sanchez alongside Jessica Dean in the nation's capital.

First, at any moment, Trump appointed Judge Aileen Cannon will hold her second pretrial hearing of the day related to the case. She's going to hear arguments from Trump lawyers as they try to get many of the criminal charges against him dismissed.

Meantime, hundreds of pages of previously sealed court records are now giving us new insight into the FBI's investigation before Trump and his co-defendants were indicted.

DEAN: It includes images of Trump's personal aide Walt Nauta moving boxes around just before Trump lawyers searched for classified materials after a Justice Department subpoena. Those unsealed documents also showing Trump's attorneys found additional classified documents at Mar-a-Lago months after the FBI searched the property, including in Trump's own bedroom. And all of that has led to a D.C. based federal judge to find, "Strong

evidence that Trump intended to hide classified materials before he was charged."

CNN's Senior Crime and Justice Reporter Katelyn Polantz is joining us now. And Katelyn, let's start with these hearings today in Florida. What are Trump's lawyers claiming as they try to get these charges dismissed?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, today is about attacking the prosecutors and how they charged the people in this case, Donald Trump and then specifically his co-defendant, Walt Nauta seen there carrying the boxes, he's accused of lying about that and that being part of the obstruction conspiracy, moving them from the feds.

What is of issue today is just one of about a dozen different ways that Donald Trump and these co-defendants are trying to get Aileen Cannon to look very closely at the charges. And they want her to toss them out of court, to dismiss the case.

This is one of those days that it's unclear whether there really needed to be a hearing on this. What the argument is, that Walt Nauta is making is that he's saying he was selectively and vindictively prosecuted, that the Justice Department retaliated against him by charging him because he didn't want to keep talking to them after he talked to them a couple times, and they believe they caught him in a lie.

The Justice Department says, that's why we charge people if you lie to us.

So, that's what happened this morning. That was the argument. They're going to have some more arguments this afternoon. Judge Aileen Cannon has to work through all of these motions, whether by having hearings or just looking at the court papers, and ruling one way or another if this thing goes on to trial.

SANCHEZ: And Katelyn, what about this newly released evidence?

POLANTZ: Yes, there is -- as part of this, as we move towards trial, there are hundreds of pages that are becoming available to us in the record of this case that we never had before.

And one of the things that is so interesting that we have been waiting for for months, I've been waiting for for months is this ruling by Judge Beryl Howell to allow prosecutors to get access to the testimony of Donald Trump's former attorney Evan Corcoran, who's part of that big obstruction case, that the challenge over his words and what he said, that's going to be a big part going forward for Judge Cannon to look at.

But now we have an opinion from Judge Howell, who allowed the prosecutors to get access to this, that she looked at that evidence and we have this 84-page opinion that we can now read from her. And she says there was strong evidence that the president -- former president intended to hide boxes from his attorney's search efforts, she looked at that evidence and she lays out in fine detail exactly why she thinks there was a lot of reason for the Justice Department to believe a crime was committed and to keep investigating it by getting Evan Corcoran's information from him.

[13:05:25]

SANCHEZ: Yes, including folders labeled highly classified in the former president's bedroom.

POLANTZ: That they found months after the search.

SANCHEZ: After the search.

POLANTZ: And they found them in Mar-a-Lago months after the FBI scoured Mar-a-Lago.

And then, Donald Trump's lawyer even came on CNN in December of that year and said that, yes, he had a document folder that had classified markings on it using to cover a light at his bedside table.

SANCHEZ: Fascinating detail. Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much for that.

We want to discuss further now with David Schoen. He is a former -- rather, he represented former President Donald Trump during his second impeachment trial.

David, thank you so much for being with us. Let's take a step back and talk about the timing of all this because this is the first hearing since Judge Cannon delayed the start of the trial indefinitely. She cited this mountain of unresolved pretrial issues.

The defense's strategy to delay as much as possible seems to be working, right?

DAVID SCHOEN, DONALD TRUMP ATTORNEY DURING SECOND IMPEACHMENT TRIAL: Well, I mean, I think these are legitimate motions. I think she's going to have pretrial hearings on motions, you know, throughout the case, but she has to feel comfortable with what she thinks is the appropriate schedule going forward.

I know she's taken a lot of criticism, but she actually has a terrific background. You know, she's really kind of an American story given her parent's background, her education, her clerkship, her work as a prosecutor.

Although, I think she's being very thoughtful in this case. It does cause some delay to have these hearings. But I think they're all very important with very important issues.

SANCHEZ: David, let's get into one of the issues, these newly released documents from the D.C. based judge that found strong evidence that Trump intended to hide classified information, the defense has taken exception to how prosecutors presented evidence before that judge, why? SCHOEN: Well, a couple of reasons. It's unusual to have evidence

presented before a grand jury in D.C., or a case in Florida in the first place.

Secondly, you know, there's an antipathy toward Judge Howell. Judge Howell wouldn't like the way Donald Trump got out of bed in the morning. She's very, very, very strongly against Donald Trump. That's part of it.

But I think an overriding issue in this case is whether she's right, and Katelyn Polantz was exactly right. We've been waiting for this opinion because Judge Howell made a remarkable finding, she found that Evan Corcoran's -- all of Evan Corcoran's notes, personal notes, should be turned over to the government. And they were and presented to the grand jury based on her finding that the attorney-client privilege is pierced by the crime fraud exception that she found that these were -- you know, notes were relevant to the commission of a crime.

I think she handled it poorly because she had them turned over in wholesale fashion without Evan Corcoran ever having a chance to see any editing that was done and that sort of thing.

I think that may well have tainted the grand jury process.

But anyway, the opinions very important thing and an important development in the case.

SANCHEZ: Well, what did you make of that portion specifically, where Judge Howell describes there being no excuse provided for how Trump could miss classified marked documents being in his own bedroom?

And also, the revelation that staffers at Mar-a-Lago were moving things around before Evan Corcoran could actually get a chance to look at them?

SCHOEN: Yes, I think that from the defense perspective, you know, they can and will have to eat all of those kinds of facts and allegations, under their theory that under the Presidential Records Act, he had the sole authority to designate whether the records were, presidential records or personal records and so on, relying on the 2012 opinion from Judge Amy Berman Jackson in D.C., that's their defense theory of the case.

The prosecution, of course, says, the PRA is absolutely irrelevant to the case. I think at a minimum, you have to say that it's relevant to the state of mind of President Trump because the statute -- the relevant statute here 793 A requires a state of mind that he knew and believed he was unauthorized to have the documents and had certain specific purposes in mind for them.

So, they can eat all of these facts in their defense theory. But you're right, there's sexy facts that, you know (INAUDIBLE).

SANCHEZ: There's also -- the prosecution also has this recording of Donald Trump being interviewed for this book about Mark Meadows, saying, hey, you want to see something classified? Like, that's going to be a challenge for the defense, right?

SCHOEN: I think that all of these tapes and videos and all that are always a challenge, because people do get glued to them, that sort of thing.

But again, he's going to have to be consistent with his defense theory of the case to explain why he believed he had the right to all of these documents.

SANCHEZ: David Schoen, we very much appreciate your perspective. Thanks for joining us.

SCHOEN: Thank you.

[13:10:00]

SANCHEZ: Another big story we're following this afternoon. Severe storms are threatening more than 75 million people across the United States, bringing damaging winds, intense hail and possible tornadoes from Texas to Vermont.

This is part of a deadly storm system that ripped through the Midwest on Tuesday. At least 18 tornadoes including this one were reported in Iowa alone.

DEAN: That is really an incredible video. The city of Greenfield, Iowa, about 60 miles southwest of Des Moines is among the hardest hit areas. This is one neighborhood just left in tatters, piles of debris scattered everywhere, you see the true -- the trees just broken in half, homes destroyed, multiple cars flipped over.

We do know that several people have been reported dead and that the search and rescue efforts are still underway.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KIM REYNOLDS (R-IA): It is just horrific. It's hard to describe until you can actually see at the devastation.

REP. RAY SORENSEN (R), IOWA STATE HOUSE: Everybody became little makeshift ambulances. We pulled the guy from the rubble and put him on a little makeshift stretcher that we made, threw him in the back of a truck of a guy that isn't even from Iowa.

And we just made our way to the lumberyard, which was the makeshift hospital.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN's Whitney Wild is in Greenfield and filed this report just a few moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Where I'm standing right here, this was a garage. And right behind me, this was someone's home, it is now completely destroyed.

And if you look beyond, this scene plays out over and over and over. Homes absolutely annihilated here in Greenfield where this massive tornado rips through this town that is just less than two square miles, and just around 2,000 people live here.

And if you look over my shoulder here, another example of how decimated this town is. This area right here, you can see where there's the stone slats. And then there's a gravel on top of that, that was where ambulances parked and then beneath that, right here where you see these groups of people and all that debris. That was where the EMTs would have their rest area.

The hospital was also hit here in Greenfield and if you swing over my shoulder, you'll see this white truck here just over that area, right in the parking lot behind that. That's where they had to triage patients because the hospital was so damaged.

They were actually taking patients out of the hospital and bringing them to the parking lot of a lumberyard here in Greenfield because the hospital parts of it, at least, were inoperable.

That is how dangerous and serious the situation was here in Greenfield. We do not yet know how many fatalities there were. We don't yet know how many injuries there were and we do not yet know what the dollar amount was here.

But what is very clear is that this is a story of a town that was now is completely decimated. This happening at 3:45 Tuesday afternoon. Still almost a day later. The search and rescue is very much underway here.

And according to Governor Kim Reynolds, hundreds of first responders are here to try to get this cleanup underway. This is a very long road, back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Our thanks to Whitney Wild for filing that report. A lot to be on the lookout for for folks in the Midwest.

Still to come, some diplomatic daylight, three U.S. allies announcing plans to formally recognize a Palestinian state. This move drawing swift condemnation from Israel. But what is the White House now saying?

Plus, all hell broke loose. That's how one passenger described the severe turbulence on the Singapore Airlines Flight. We're going to speak to Captain Sully Sullenberger about these terrifying moments in the sky.

DEAN: And the sale of Elvis Presley's historic home is on hold for now, what that means for the future of Graceland.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:18:09]

DEAN: The White House is pushing back after three countries Spain, Norway and Ireland say they would formally recognize a Palestinian state beginning next week. These country's leaders are calling today's announcement an important step toward peace.

The White House says President Biden, "Is a strong supporter of a two- state solution, that a Palestinian state should be realized through direct negotiations between the parties, not through unilateral recognition."

SANCHEZ: Meantime, Israel's foreign minister said the decision by those countries sends a message that terrorism pays.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is following the story live from Jerusalem for us. Jeremy, what can you tell us about the reaction from inside Israel?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's certainly a lot of outrage being expressed by Israel and warning of consequences not only for the countries who recognize Palestine as a state here, but also for the Palestinian Authority itself.

The Israeli foreign minister today recalling the Israeli ambassadors to Spain, Ireland and Norway and also summoning the ambassadors from those three countries in Israel for a formal reprimand, wondering which the Israeli foreign minister said he would show these ambassadors videos of women being taken hostage on October 7th.

The Israeli prime minister himself calling this move by these three countries a tant -- tantamount to a reward for terror and vowing that a Palestinian state would effectively be a terror state, which he said would attempt to perpetrate the October 7th massacre again and again.

We should note, of course, that the Israeli prime minister in saying that is making very clear that he opposes the creation of a Palestinian state, he opposes a two-state solution, which is very much at odds with the United States' position on that issue.

Now, in terms of consequences that could come for these countries, we've heard from the Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right member of Netanyahu's governing coalition saying that he will seek the approval of tens of thousands of housing units in of settlements in the occupied West Bank, additional new settlements in the West Bank.

[13:20:13]

And he is also seeking to cut off the Palestinian tax revenue which Israel collects, but is meant to be going to the Palestinian Authority that could have some serious ramifications for the already cash strapped governing body in the West Bank.

DEAN: And Jeremy, today, the families of seven young Israeli women soldiers who were captured by Hamas have released graphic footage of that abduction. And now we want to warn everyone, these are very disturbing images

that we're going to show you. But Jeremy, tell us about these photos and why they're coming out now.

DIAMOND: Yes, it is a graphic video showing the moments when seven Israeli women soldiers in the IDF at a military base in Nahal Oz on the border with the Gaza Strip. The moments when these militants came in, line them up against the wall, they bound their hands.

You can see that they are bruised and bloodied and absolutely terrified. There's no mistaking the fear in their eyes as they are face-to-face with these Hamas gunmen.

You can see one of the women Naama Levy. She is bloodied, her face is bloodied. That she -- there was a very famous video of her where you can see her pants are also bloodied, that she's being put in the back of a Jeep taken to Gaza.

Of the seven women who were taken a captive from that base, one of them Noa Marciano is believed to have been killed in captivity according to the Israeli military. Her body was retrieved.

Uri Magidish, she was rescued actually in a special operations maneuver in the Gaza Strip by the Israeli military months ago.

But there are these five women Naama Levy, Liri Albag, Agam Berger, Karina Ariev and Daniela Gilboa, all 18 and 19 years old, who remain captive in the Gaza Strip and their families are hoping that by releasing these video, they can bring the world's attention back on the plight of their daughters. And also, of course, pressure the Israeli government to reach a ceasefire and hostage release deal, Jessica.

DEAN: Truly, truly horrific images. And a reminder that they have been there since October 7th taken against their will.

Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much for that reporting.

And joining us on now to discuss all of this is Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for being here with us today. I want to start first with this move by these three nations, the Spanish Prime Minister saying that the decision to recognize a Palestinian state was in his words, not taken against the people of Israel, and certainly not against the Jews or in favor of Hamas. But instead of support of peace and coexistence.

I'm curious what you say to that and what your reaction is.

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): You know, I've listened to the report prior to this, and I very strongly support a two-state solution. I do believe we need to go at it through a diplomatic approach that people need to be working together to get to that.

But I think they've said it very well, that, you know, what -- Hamas is not the Palestinians. There are many, many innocent civilians that live in Palestine that have just become victims of this war.

In my district, I have families that lost members in the Hamas terrorist attack, they're grieving. I've met the families that want to have the hostages brought home.

But I also have constituents -- I have one constituent that has lost 40 members of his family in Gaza.

In my district, people are raw, and they are hurting. And I want -- I want peace. And I want to figure out the best way that we can get peace.

And I do believe that, ultimately, that is going to be a two-state solution if we ever can get to a ceasefire.

DEAN: And the president and the White House have said that they also obviously support a two-state solution, but they say that it should not be coming unilaterally, that it should be brokered by the parties talking to each other.

Do you think that's the right way to get there? Or do you think that these countries recognizing them now is the proper way to get there?

DINGELL: I'm not going to tell those countries how to run their business. I right now support the president and our State Department in strongly supporting that. President Biden has been very clear with Israel how he feels on that issue.

And I will strongly, strongly continue to support that and have supported that for decades.

DEAN: And the Secretary of State Tony Blinken has said that he wants to work with Congress to craft bipartisan legislation that he says, in his words, is an appropriate response to the International Criminal Court after it applied for those arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Israel's defense minister, among others.

Is that something you would support? And what do you think is an appropriate response?

[13:25:04]

DINGELL: I'm going to tell you right now that that's a very hypothetical question that you are asking and everything that we seem to be doing up here -- not everything, we've actually done one or two bipartisan things, but there are a lot of gotchas right now.

And I really -- I'm not sure that all this demagoguing, all of these -- we're seeing a rise, we are seeing a rise in hatred of anti- Semitism, Islamophobia, xenophobia, everything, and we got to stand up to it.

So, I'm not sure what that means, what form it becomes. And I'm going to be very careful to support anything that is just contributing to more gotcha message legislation that gets us absolutely nowhere, but contributes to the hate and division we're watching in too many places, including in our country.

DEAN: But the Secretary of State himself said he wanted to work on a bipartisan solution here, a response as he called it. Do you think that's the correct thing? Should there be an effort to craft bipartisan response to this move by the ICC?

DINGELL: I think we should -- I think we should all be working together to try to find peace and where we are right now, this pitting them against each other. We need -- terrorism cannot be tolerated.

But we also have to really realize there are a lot of innocent people that are being killed. And everybody's trying to, you know, pit each other against each other. I know what those countries did. It's not against the State of Israel or the Jewish people. I know many people know that the people of Palestinian are innocent civilians caught in this. That's what we've got to work towards, not these. Not continuing -- I don't -- I want the hostages released, we need to get them released.

And I don't want to see any more innocent people die. I keep telling people, a Jewish baby and a Palestinian babies are both babies.

DEAN: And I hear you talking about your home district where so many people in your words are raw, they're grieving the loss of family members.

Allies of former President Trump met with Arab and Muslim American voters in your home state of Michigan, they're trying to win their support amidst those voters frustration with President Biden over his handling of this war.

He won Michigan by around 154,000 votes in 2020. We know over 100,000 people voted uncommitted in that primary this year. Do you think the Biden campaign is taking the concerns of your community, your constituents seriously enough?

DINGELL: Look, I've talked very directly to the president about this. He knows how people are hurting.

I also want to tell you that I remember the first week that Donald Trump was president, and remember everybody, everybody thought I was crazy when I said he was going to get elected, and that he could win Michigan and then did win Michigan.

But the first thing he did was impose -- wanted to try to impose a Muslim ban. And we need to listen to the things that he's saying. And I think we've got to do a good job of communicating all of the issues and who people really are that they stand for.

I want peace right now. What is going on between Israel and in the Middle East is we need -- Israel has got the right to exist, so does Palestine. And it's a -- it's a decades long, centuries long issue, but we got to try to find peace.

And that's what I'm focused on. And I'm talking to everybody and trust me, I've had some hard, tough moments. DEAN: I bet you have. Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it.

DINGELL: Thank you.

DEAN: Still ahead, the Louisiana House passes a bill that would make the state the first in the country to criminalize abortion pills. What this could signal for reproductive rights in post-Roe America.

And Elvis's Graceland stays in the Presley family for now. What's next in this foreclosure fight?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)