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Officers Campaigning for Biden; Closing Arguments in Trump Trial Today; New Docuseries on Nick and Aaron Carter; Tanks Moving into Rafah's City Center; New Polls Show Tight Margin between Trump and Biden; Rep. Byron Donalds (R-FL) is Interviewed about the Presidential Election. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 28, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: This moment with the hush money trial coming to an end as an opening to start reminding, and in some ways reintroducing voters to the chaos and what they say is the anti-democratic tendencies of the former president. And that's exactly what we'll see these three police officers doing when they hit the campaign trail.

All three of them were in the Capitol on January 6th, and they have talked previously about their experiences and I think they will really start to drive home this idea of the January 6th riot as an example of Trump's tendencies towards anti-democratic ideas. And these officers will hit states including Arizona and Nevada just this week. They will then go on to states in the so-called blue wall, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan.

And we did talk to one of the officers, Harry Dunn, who told us that, if I can tell my - his - story a million times, he will. And if I can do that, I'll just be doing my part to save democracy.

Now, whether that message breaks through amid all of the other issues that voters are looking at this election, I think remains to be seen. But when you talk to the president's advisers, they really do believed that this is a resonant issue. And I think they're challenge is bringing it from issues of democracy in the abstract and putting something concrete behind it. And that's what these officers will do by relaying their own experiences in the Capitol on January 6th.

This is a message that the president will start to ramp up over the coming weeks. You'll see him travel to Europe in the next two weeks for the 80th anniversary of D-Day. He'll also be at the G-7. And I think the issues of protecting democracy, maintaining democracy very much on the agenda there.

We've also seen him really sharpening his language about President Trump's mental state after the 2020 election, saying that in his view Trump snapped after he lost. That he couldn't accept that he had lost the election, and that that is part of what led to January 6th. So, you really see a toughening of the language, a toughening of the rhetoric, all culminating in that CNN debate on June 27th.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. It's great to see you, Kevin. Thanks for the reporting.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, in the meantime, we're less than an hour away now from closing arguments in the case that could make Donald Trump a convicted felon, or perhaps give him a huge political boost.

With us now, CNN legal analyst Jennifer Rodgers and former prosecutor Jeremy Saland.

And, Jennifer, I want to start with some of the details that we are learning about what might be in these closing arguments. CNN has learned that the defense might focus on who did not testify in this case, Allen Weisselberg, the CFO of the Trump Organization, and Keith Schiller, Trump's body man. How would you bring them up in closing arguments? What would you do with them and what's the risk reward?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the defense says, you heard - you know, heard about this Allen Weisselberg. Michael Cohen is the only person who tells you that Trump was in the know, that he knew about the reimbursement scheme. But he says, Allen Weisselberg also new. So, where's Allen Weisselberg? Prosecutors didn't bring him to you? Where is he? Where's Keith Schiller. They claim that Keith Schiller was on the phone when they were talking about these payments and so on. Where's Keith Schiller? I mean, that's the way you do it, which, of course, implies that prosecutors could have brought them and should have brought them and didn't bring them.

And then the question is, we were talking about this before, what kind of instructions do prosecutors get? Not about Keith Schiller, who either side could have called if they wanted to. They'll probably get a missing witness charged with respect to him. But with Allen Weisselberg, who, of course, is in prison for perjury, having lied to protect Donald Trump at a previous trial, and who also would presumably invoke the Fifth, right, and, of course, has this severance agreement where he's agreed not to voluntarily cooperate with law enforcement or he forgoes $2 million. So, there are lots of reasons he's not there.

The question is, if the defense raises it like that, I have to assume the judge gives an unavailable witness charge, saying to the jury, he's not here. He's unavailable. Neither party can call him. You are not to speculate as to why, and then just leaves it at that.

BERMAN: What does the prosecution do with that or how much do they care about how the defense uses Allen Weisselberg in closings?

JEREMY SALAND, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, I think the prosecution has to bring it back to really the meat and potatoes here, which is the four corners of the charges. This is a falsifying business records case. You heard from Michael Cohen, you heard from Stormy Daniels, they gave you the background. You heard from Hope Hicks, you heard from David Pecker, you have the handwritten notes, you have the call logs. There's so much evidence that you don't need Michael - pardon me, that you don't need Weisselberg. Those notes are so critical. They really poked the dots or put the dots together and connect it all together.

But, at the end of the day, whether or not you have Weisselberg, you have the case if you believe and the evidence. And the evidence, I think, went in very, very well. And constantly what the defense is going to try to do is make this about missing information, about lies, and about blackmail. And every time they do that, although it's not back-and-forth anymore, the prosecution has to bring it back down to really the meat and potatoes - I use that term again - that this is really a simple case of falsifying business records.

[08:35:04]

Not about sex-tortion, not about whether you like Michael Cohen, and not about where Michael - or Weisselberg is.

BERMAN: Which side is going to do more harrumphing in the closing arguments, which is to say, where might we see more passion? Because as Jeremy lays it out right there, he's suggesting the prosecution to go second here in the closing arguments, may be relatively dry and say just look at the documents here.

RODGERS: Yes, that's how it usually goes, right. Prosecutors have to take the law as the judge will instruct them, and then kind of put the evidence in for each - each element of the case and say, this is how we've proved it. It tends to be pretty dry. I mean hopefully they'll have some dramatic flourishes here and there to keep it interesting. But the harrumphing and the faux outrage and all of that definitely comes with the defense. They're the ones who are saying our poor guy is on trial here. This is an outrage. He's the president. You know, all of that. We'll get more from the defense for sure.

BERMAN: And the jury won't get their jury instructions until Wednesday, likely tomorrow, right, tomorrow, which is when we will be learning about them for the first time. But the lawyers here, they know, don't they, what's in in these jury instructions at this point?

SALAND: Absolutely. And when they do their summations, they're going to keep that in mind. They're going to make sure they hit the elements of a crime. They're going to make sure that they identify any issues that may come up with those jury instructions. So, for example, if there is a risk of a witness who isn't going to show up and there's going to be an instruction as to a missing witness, which probably won't happen, they're going to answer that in their summation. They know they're going to telegraph it and they're going to answer it before it gets to the jury.

BERMAN: I mean, to the point, it's almost like when you get an assignment, you know, to write a history paper about x, y, and z, you literally, in your introduction when you're in high school, say those words, x, y, and z. Are the lawyers here mapping their closing arguments based on the jury instructions so it's like meshed together?

RODGERS: Prosecutors do. Defense lawyers tend not to. And, remember, prosecutors want it to be organized and focused and tight. I mean before PowerPoint was such a thing, we used to even have our paralegals put together like a poster board, right, where you'd put the elements of a simple offense and you would check it off. Here's the evidence that proves this offense, check, you know, so on.

Defense lawyers want to do the opposite. They want to say, this is messy. This is complicated. I don't expect that they will do it like a, you know, here's what evidence fits with this. Instead they'll say, this is all over the map. There's so much reasonable doubt. You know, that's the sort of thing defense does.

BERMAN: What percent of the defense closing arguments - and, again, they go first very shortly - how much of it will be about Michael Cohen? If I say 75 percent, do you take the over or the under?

SALAND: I take - I take the over. I take the over. I think if the defense can make this about Michael Cohen, they can succeed. That has to be their objective. Is not about falsifying business records, the defense. It's not about anything other than a blackmailer, extorter (ph), who has an agenda, and a bad dude who you wouldn't want to be with your sister or your - or you're, you know, your family, your brother-in-law, or anything like that. You wouldn't it want it to be your darn neighbor to walk your dog. You cannot trust him. And make it about Michael Cohen. That is their objective. Forget the falsifying business records because if you make it about him, you can potentially win that case or hang the jury.

BERMAN: Hang the jury. One juror. Just takes one to hang the jury. So, are you making - if you're the Trump team that's been looking at this jury for five, six weeks, are you making the case to one or two specific people?

RODGERS: Well, you have to think about your viable arguments. You make it to as many of them as you can because different things resonate with different jurors. Like, there's some technical issues around the enhancement, right? Around whether you can enhance the falsification of business records to, you know, conceal another crime, right? If you think that the technical folks, like the two lawyers on the jury, are amenable to an argument that that's bogus, that you can't make that out, then you direct that argument to them. You're kind of picking all the arguments you have that might stick to the wall and saying, we may have five or six of these folks that might be the one.

BERMAN: You know, we're going to learn a lot about what's in the jury instructions today based on how these attorneys argue the case in closing arguments. So, a lot about to happen.

Jeremy Saland, Jennifer Rodgers, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Former pop star Nick Carter and his late brother Aaron Carter are the focus of an explosive new documentary series that just released. The four-part series focuses in on the rise of their music careers, their public feud, as well as the sexual assault allegations against Nick. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Carter family dysfunction is deep. Made worse by money, fame, and jealousy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Being a part of a famous family, it's hard to get to the truth. I guess the best word to describe it would be lawlessness.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was like watching a roller coaster become unhinged. And it just got worse and worse and worse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 34 year-old was found dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Carter faces new allegations of sexual assault.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To be honest, I'm scared of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister has much more on this. She's joining us now.

Elizabeth, what more are you learning about this documentary and what's coming out of it?

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Kate, this documentary is explosive, as you said. This documents the rise to fame for Nick Carter and his younger brother, Aaron Carter.

[08:40:03]

But it also dives into really the troubles that this famous family endured for years. This is largely a documentary about the sexual assault allegations against Nick Carter. Now, these are not new allegations. These were previously unveiled from the accusers themselves, and also from three separate lawsuits that, by the way, Nick Carter has countersuit all of his accusers. We'll get back to that in a minute.

But in this documentary, these three accusers, these three women, they sit down and they detail there accusations from these civil suits on camera. So, to see them go through their emotional allegations of sexual assault, they all say that they were heavily intoxicated at the time that they allege they were assaulted by Nick Carter. This is really the first time that we are seeing them on camera in this way.

Now, we all know that Aaron Carter, he tragically died at the age of 34 back in November of 2022. He was found unresponsive in his bathtub. And this was after his lifetime really of struggles with addiction and mental health. But at the end of his life, he defended his own brother's accusers. And there was a large rift. So the documentary also gets into that, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Has Nick Carter responded to this documentary yet?

WAGMEISTER: He has. So the documentarians, they say that Nick Carter declined to be interviewed for this documentary. But we reached out to his attorney and we heard back from him, Kate. I want to read you what he told us. He calls all of these claims outrageous and says, "these are exactly the same outrageous claims that led us to sue this gang of conspirators." That's what they call his three accusers.

They go on to say, "those cases are working their way through the legal system now, and based on both the initial court rulings and the overwhelming evidence, we have every belief that we will prevail and hold them accountable for spreading these falsehoods."

Now, in the documentary, they also say there's a website with all of these court documents for viewers to look at as well.

BOLDUAN: Elizabeth, thank you so much for bringing us that reporting.

A reminder, you can stream this documentary, this latest documentary, Nick Carter documentary, on Max right now.

John.

BERMAN: All right, incredibly lucky to be alive. A 19-year-old who fell 400 feet down the side of a canyon somehow sustained only minor injuries.

And we have live pictures from Rafah this morning. And we have new reporting this hour. Eyewitnesses say they see Israeli tanks on the ground there. And we are standing by for new details from the investigation into the air strike that killed dozens of civilians there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:47:18]

BERMAN: So, a new landslide in Papua New Guinea has prompted evacuation orders for nearly 7,000 people. More than 2,000 people believe to be buried alive in a huge landslide days ago. The area remains unstable with smaller landslides now endangering rescue efforts.

The suspect arrested following stabbings in Massachusetts over the weekend set to appear in court today. The 26-year-old is accused of stabbing two people in the McDonalds in Plymouth. Police say the attack is likely connected to another incident where four young girls were stabbed at a movie theater about an hour earlier.

And it was something of a Memorial Day miracle after a 19-year-old in the state of Washington somehow survive falling more than 400 feet. Authorities say the young man fell while trying to walk beneath the high steel bridge right there. Right there. A first responders team sent a harness firefighter down off the bridge at the end of a rope, successfully saving the teenager who somehow only sustained minor injuries. Obviously, a harrowing, harrowing moment. Kate.

BOLDUAN: We have some breaking news coming in.

There are some new pictures we want to show you coming in showing a view into Rafah from the Gaza border. You see it there. Smoke billowing on the horizon. This is also that - as there is new reporting into CNN of eyewitnesses saying they have seen IDF tanks moving into the city center. Develop - we're going to gather more details on that as they come in.

And Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is calling Sunday's deadly strike on Rafah, a tragic error. That strike killed 45 Palestinians, injured 200 others in a nearby displacement camp.

CNN's Nada Bashir is following all of this and joins us right now.

Nada, what more are you learning about this strike now?

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, we have seen widespread condemnation, not only from humanitarian organizations and world leaders, but also, of course, from the United Nations, which has repeatedly warned against an Israeli military offensive in Rafah and against the civilian impact that this could have. We've heard from the U.N. secretary general issuing his condemnation over what he described to be a horrific incident.

And we have also heard from the U.N.'s humanitarian chief, Martin Griffiths, issuing a statement directly in response to the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who characterized the attack as a tragic error, in his words. According to Martin Griffiths' statements, he said, "whether the attack was a war crime or a 'tragic mistake' for the people of Gaza, there is no debate. What happened was the latest and possibly most cruel abomination."

Now, the U.N. Security Council is expected to hold an emergency meeting in the next few hours, focused on the attack on Sunday evening which killed at least 45 people and left more than 240 wounded.

[08:50:08]

As we know, this was an area densely populated with civilians sheltering. This is not believed to be one of the areas that was issued with an evacuation order. In other words, this should have been a safe area for civilians.

And, of course, there is mounting concern around the warnings of perhaps tanks now moving in. We have heard, as you mentioned, from two eyewitnesses in Rafah saying that they have seen Israeli tanks and armored vehicles moving into the central part of the southern city, which once was a safe haven, if you can call it that, in Gaza amid this war. Again, this hasn't been confirmed yet by the Israeli military. This is according to eyewitnesses on the ground.

And, of course, there is questions around the U.S. response and what reaction we might see at this U.N. Security Council meeting later today. President Biden has previously warned the Israeli government, the Israeli military, against moving into Rafah. He has previously told CNN that if Israel were to go into Rafah, that the U.S. would not be providing support in the form of arms.

It remains to be seen whether this latest attack and further escalation of Israel's military offensive in Rafah will, in fact, be a red line for the Biden administration.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Nada, thank you so much for the reporting.

John.

BERMAN: All right, so if you've been on social media in the last ten or 15 minutes, you've seen a story that's getting a huge amount of buzz right now. "Politico" is reporting there is a, quote, "full-blown freakout" among Democrats over President Biden's reelection prospects.

CNN's Harry Enten is here with me now.

So, there's that, Harry, but there is something in the polling that's a feature that Democrats might be happy about.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, you know, you were - you spoke about it, I believe, last week a little bit and it's essentially this. Right now we're looking at polls of registered voters. But, of course, you have likely voters and those will actually turn out and vote. And if you look at the registered voters, Donald Trump's ahead by an average of two points. But look at likely voters right now. What we see in those polls, those same exact polls, but among likely voters, is a tie.

And this is a very unusual pattern because normally what happens is the broader universe of all registered voters is more favorable to Democrats than those folks who actually vote. So, back in 2020, Joe Biden won registered voters, or led amongst them in the post-election polls by five points. He, of course, only won by four. Go back to 2012, what did we see? Among all registered voters, we saw Barack Obama would have won that group by six points, but, of course, he only one by four. So, this is a very different thing that we see going on here.

When you look at all registered voters, you get actually a more favorable environment for Donald Trump than if you look at those folks who are actually likely to turn out at the polls.

BERMAN: Again, this is a flipped from what we've seen historically.

Are there any states this matters more than others?

ENTEN: Yes. So, you know, we're looking nationally, but, of course, things are determined in the Electoral College. And one state where the polls have consistently shown - "The New York Times"/ Sienna College poll. I've also seen a little bit in our CNN poll when I dug into the cross tabs a little bit where we see this massive jump from registered voters. Look at this, Donald Trump at 49 percent. Joe Biden at 42 percent. Go to likely voters. Look at this. A well within the margin of error contest in which Joe Biden actually scores 47 percent to Donald Trump's 46 percent. He is doing significantly better among likely voters in Michigan than among registered voters.

And part of the belief for that reason, John, is because Michigan has very lenient voter registration laws. A lot of automatic voter registration in the state of Michigan.

BERMAN: So that explains Michigan.

Overall, what might be contributing to this trend?

ENTEN: Yes. So, you know, we've spoken a ton about Joe Biden's problem with young voters, right? Look at the 2020 results. We see Joe Biden in those exit polls and in the post-election survey from the Pew Research Center, winning young voters, those under the age of 30, by 25 points. Right now in the polls, look at that, Joe Biden's up by just a single percentage point. My goodness, gracious. What a decline for Joe Biden.

But there is, of course, an age reversal going on here that I don't think get spoken about nearly enough, which is, in those exit polls in that Pew Research Center post-election survey, Donald Trump by five. Now we have Joe Biden by six points. And, of course, older Americans are much more likely to vote. So, this is an age reversal I think Joe Biden will take.

BERMAN: No, you want - these are the voters who show up, generally speaking. But that's a huge swing among younger voters.

ENTEN: Yes, it's - it's something historic, John.

BERMAN: All right, Harry Enten, thank you very much.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Let's talk about this. Joining us right now is Republican Congressman Byron Donalds from Florida.

Congressman, thanks for coming in.

What Harry and John were talking about, you're also - "The New York Times" also had an analysis of this. It's kind of the registered voters versus the likely voters conundrum I'm calling it. And as "The New York Times" kind of put it, part of their analysis, it says, "to an extent that hasn't been true in 'The New York Times'/Sienna College polling in the last eight years, disengaged voters are driving the overall polling results and the storyline about the election."

They are the disengaged or the low vote - low turnout voters. They're the voters that are less likely to actually decide to show up and vote on Election Day. With that in mind, how much does - does that, kind of this conundrum if you will, concern you regarding Donald Trump, his campaign efforts, him trying to win reelection, him trying to win electron once again with really kind of turning those voters out?

[08:55:18]

REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): Well, first of all, it's good to be with you this morning.

I'm - obviously, I'm not really too concerned. Here is why. This election is - really going to come down to a choice between two presidents, the 45th, the 46th. And I think that when you have a lot of voters registered, likely whatever the case might be, when they really take stock of the job both of these men have done, they're going to sit there and say, Donald Trump was a significantly better president. It's not even close. Look at every metric. Look what's happening around the world. The world was safer. Inflation was lower. Our border was secure. Everything that truly matters in the lives of the American people was better under Donald Trump when he was president.

So, at the end of the day, I think that's what's going to really shake out at the only poll that matters on November 5th.

BOLDUAN: One thing we learned this morning is that the Biden campaign is going to be getting some help from three former police officers. Well, three police officers who were there on January 6th. Names that have become very well-known for speaking out about what happened to them on January 6th, how they defended the Capitol on January 6th. And the Biden campaign is going to be using them, getting help from them in swing states to, in their view, speak about the threat that Donald Trump poses to democracy in 2024.

I mean they carry an interesting story and interesting personal story. How do you counter that?

DONALDS: I counter that with the fact that Joe Biden has been a disastrous president and he has all - he's been a threat to democracy. Check this out. He has suppressed the free speech of the American people during Covid-19. He forced members of our military to take the Covid-19 vaccine when they did not want to. And now that all the facts are out, they destroyed their military careers. He's ignored the Supreme Court not once but twice when it comes to the student loan bailout. He has ignored federal law, leaving our borders massively open.

So, if you're going to talk about who's a threat to democracy, it's without a question Joe Biden has been that threat. Violations of separation of powers. Violations of the First Amendment just because he wanted to get his way. That is not good for an American president who just uses and changes the law based upon his own whim, his own desires, his own politics. That is wrong.

And so I think if you're going to try to bring out what happened on January 6th versus the four years of Joe Biden's presidency, Joe Biden is the one who's not been protecting our institutions. He's not been protecting our Constitution. He's actually been a major detriment to the very pillars of our nation.

BOLDUAN: And this is part of the argument you were trying to make on the campaign trail for Donald Trump.

Nikki Haley now says she's going to vote for Donald Trump, which has some suggesting that she would be a perfect running mate for him. Do you think she would be a great running mate for Donald Trump?

DONALDS: I don't know. That remains to be seen. Donald Trump is going to make that decision. A lot of names, obviously, out there. But at the end of the day, he's going to decide who he thinks should be in that second seat to get our country back on track.

But this is a very interesting development with the vice president's seat.

BOLDUAN: Of course, Congressman, but do you think she would be great because of the voters that still - you know, the voters that she could bring along? You don't' - you don't - do you - do - would you be opposed at seeing her as a running mate?

DONALDS: I don't think that's really the case today because Donald Trump is, has been president. He is a former president. It's not like you have somebody running who has to bring a constituency along to help that person, to elevate that person on the national stage. Donald Trump is known throughout our entire country. And, like I said, this is going to be the Pepsi taste challenge for the presidential election.

A vice president, in my view, a vice presidential pick is not somebody who needs to bring a block of votes. I think it's somebody who help - can help expand the voting population and the voting map four President Trump. But I don't think he needs Nikki Haley. Frankly, he doesn't really need anybody else. He's going to pick somebody that is going to help him really expand the map and expand his ability to get back to the White House.

BOLDUAN: What you're saying is kind of the same thing, bringing a block of votes and expand the map. It's bringing voters and being, you know, attractive to voters to help the president. Your name is among those being mentioned as a possible VP contender. Would you like the job?

DONALDS: I've said that. I've been on the record for that multiple times. You know, my quotes have been out there a long time. At the end of the day, Donald Trump's pick -

BOLDUAN: Are you saying yes?

DONALDS: I'm going to support whatever he does. I'm focused on the - I'm focused on the country.

BOLDUAN: You're focused on - so, yes, you're saying that you - you'd - you'd like to have the job?

DONALDS: I mean, yes, I've said it before, of course. Like, who would say no? That's the bigger question. Who out there, if he calls you and says, hey, I want you to be the veep, you say no? That's a very - that's an incredibly short list. So, I mean, yes, obviously that would be the case. But right now the focus is, you know, t he convention is coming up in about a month.

[09:00:01]

We have a campaign strategy to get a lot of voters out in support of President Trump. That's the first, second, and third job.