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President Biden Courting Black Voters; Jury Deliberates in Trump Hush Money Trial. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 29, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:30]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: President Trump's fate is in the hands of the jury. Those 12 men and women are now deliberating and could render a verdict in the criminal hush money trial at any moment. We're following developments as they happen.

And Israel now says its war against Hamas could last seven more months, a bleak scenario, as the White House insists a strike that killed dozens of Palestinians in Rafah, including women and children, did not cross the president's so-called red line.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, President Biden heading to the battleground state of Pennsylvania, where, in just minutes, he's set to launch a new effort to win over black voters, a new strategy unveiled, as polls show eroding support.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: The jury now has the case.

I'm Brianna Keilar, alongside Boris Sanchez, here in Washington.

And, right now, the 12 jurors in former President Trump's historic criminal hush money trial, seven men and five women, are behind closed doors weighing whether Trump is guilty. They will decide for the first time whether a former U.S. president and presumptive major party nominee will be convicted of a crime.

SANCHEZ: Yes, the jury is going to determine whether Donald Trump is guilty of 34 felony charges of falsifying business records related to that hush money payment to adult film actress Stormy Daniels right before the 2016 election.

Jurors have been deliberating now for about a half-an-hour or so.

Let's get to CNN chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid, who's outside the courthouse in New York.

And, Paula, the judge issued instructions to the jury. None of the parties in the case can leave the courthouse while the jury deliberates. So what should we be watching for?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, we're looking for any sign of life from this jury.

It is widely expected that they will likely have some questions about the case before they reach a decision. This is an unprecedented case, incredibly complex. And they have a laptop with a lot of the evidence, but not everything that they heard, so highly possible we will hear from them maybe even a few times today, as they come back and ask for clarification.

Now, the judge has provided them with a road map for how to approach this historic task that they are about to undertake. The most important thing that the judge explained to them this morning is the burden of proof.

He told them that -- quote -- "It is not sufficient to prove that the defendant is probably guilty. The people," so the government, the prosecution," must prove beyond a reasonable doubt every element of the crime, including that the defendant is the person who committed that crime. The burden of proof is never on the defendant."

And the judge reminded them that, even though Trump opted not to take the stand, that should not be held against him. It's not his responsibility to establish that he is not guilty.

But when it comes to folks who did take the stand, the judge gave another really important instruction, and he told the jury that, if any witness has intentionally testified falsely to any fact, they can actually disregard that witness' testimony either entirely or just the portions that they found to be false.

And this is incredibly significant because, of course, the defense attorneys have argued that Michael Cohen lied to the jury on the stand. We know Michael Cohen is such an essential part of this case.

So, if you have some jurors who believe that, yes, he did lie on the stand, and they believe all of his testimony should be discarded, and you have some jurors who believe that only a portion or none of it should be discarded, that is something that could really complicate these deliberations.

So, at this point, nobody knows how this is going to turn out in the end, or the big question now, how long it will take them to come back to the courtroom.

KEILAR: All right, Paula Reid, thank you so much for that. We are, of course, waiting and watching.

Kara Scannell is with us now.

You were inside, Kara, for these last moments. Tell us what that was like.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, now this is the moment of truth, the decision time for the jury.

And so the judge brought them in, very quickly got down to business, had spent the time reading through the instruction on the law. And that is what the prosecution must prove in order for the jury to find Trump guilty of these 34 counts. And he went through them in great detail.

I'm sure you guys have been discussing that all day. But, essentially, Trump, if he's found guilty of falsifying business records, they have to prove that he falsified them with the purpose to commit or conceal another crime, and that was subverting the election through unlawful means.

[13:05:05]

And what the judge explained to the jury is that they have to be unanimous about all of that. What they don't need to be unanimous about is what the unlawful mean is. And that could be federal election law violations, such as campaign contributions that exceed the limits, also the potential falsification of business records relating to Michael Cohen's bank records or tax violations.

And after the judge had gone through that, he then -- before he excused the jury, he said he wanted two of them to volunteer to learn how to use the laptop, because on the laptop that would go back into the jury room would be all of the evidence that they could need while they're deliberating.

So they could pull this up. Two of the jurors stayed behind. They were shown by a paralegal for the DA's office with both prosecutor Susan Hoffinger and Trump's lawyer Todd Blanche standing around them as they were quickly shown how to use the laptop. Then they went back for deliberations to get under way.

Then the judge addressed the alternates. There have been six alternates listening to the testimony. The judge said to one of them, singled them out, said: "I have seen you have been taking notes. You have gone through several notebooks during this trial." He thanked them for their diligence.

But he said he wasn't going to excuse them just yet because they could be needed if there is an issue with the jury during the course of deliberations, which we don't know how long that will be.

So those -- those alternate jurors also left the courtroom, though they're not part of deliberations right now. It's just those 12, the seven men, the five women, who are now deliberating this case. And the judge also told Trump's lawyers and the prosecutors that they could not leave the building, because, if there was a note, if the jury had a question on the law or if they wanted any testimony read back, he would want to deal with that quickly.

So they would need to come back in quickly. So all the parties are here on site. There will not be a great delay if there is a note or when there is a verdict in this case, so the judge looking to kind of keep this all very contained here in the courthouse so that this can move forward.

I mean, it was interesting. When Donald Trump was about to leave the courtroom, the only member of his family who's there today is Don Jr. And Don Jr. is in the first row behind Trump. They were talking before they ultimately left the courtroom.

And as Trump was walking down the center aisle, he let out a big exhale as he was walking through the aisle there, perhaps reflecting some of the weight of this moment now that this is completely out of his control, the control of his attorneys. It's down to these 12 New Yorkers -- Brianna.

KEILAR: And I know the jury has played it pretty close to the vest as far as any responses to things go, Kara, but what were they like as they were getting the instructions?

All right, I think we're having a problem with Kara's connection there. We're going to try to reestablish that -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: We're joined now by CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elie Honig.

Elie, great to see you, as always. Appreciate getting your perspective on this very important day.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

SANCHEZ: You have tried a lot of cases. An hour-and-a-half in, what's it like in the room with jury deliberations going on?

HONIG: It's tense. It's nerve-wracking, because you don't know anything.

Here's what's happening now. The judge has given the jury their final instructions, took about an hour this morning. And now what's happening is, these 12 people are alone in a room. There's no court reporter. There's no judge. There's nobody else. The alternates have been split off in case of emergency.

Now, jury number one is the foreperson. In a lot of courts, the first thing the jury does is elect a foreperson. But in New York state court, it automatically is jury number one. There's no magic powers associated with the foreperson. That's who will communicate with the judge.

And, usually, that's who will lead the deliberations. Now, crucial point, they have to be unanimous to reach a verdict. Guilty has to be 12-0. Not guilty has to be 12-0. Anything other than that, 11-1, 6-6, that is not a verdict.

Now, they're working off the indictment, which we know count -- charges falsifying business records in the first degree. Now, there's 34 different counts of this. And I want to make this point because it's really important. The jury is going to return not a verdict, but 34 verdicts.

They're going to have to consider each count, 11 invoices, 12 vouchers, 11 checks separately. And it's possible we see a split verdict. It's possible they find guilty on 20, not guilty on the remaining 14. One possibility that I just want to flag, it is possible, if the jury wants to split it -- nine of the checks are signed directly by Donald Trump himself.

So, if they do end up splitting it, it could be that they split along that, those nine counts perhaps guilty, the rest not guilty.

Now, what's going to happen for the rest of today, it could happen during your show, we are going to get notes. Now, it's possible we don't hear a thing between now and the end of the day. It's possible you get five notes between now and when this show goes off the air at 4:00.

And those notes are going to break down into a couple things. One, they may ask for more info on the legal instructions. The judge took an hour, but he didn't give them the actual written form, which happens in a lot of courts. Here, maybe they took notes, but they could say, Judge, can you give us the definition of reasonable doubt again?

SANCHEZ: Yes.

HONIG: Can you give us...

SANCHEZ: We want clarity.

HONIG: Yes, yes, clarity.

And we're going to all be furiously trying to understand what they mean, right?

[13:10:01]

SANCHEZ: Yes.

HONIG: Tea leaf reading at its finest.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

HONIG: Now, they may ask for specific testimony. They may say, we want to hear the part where Michael Cohen talks about the August 2015 meeting.

But this is really important. The evidence -- and this is unusual -- they have it.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

HONIG: That's the laptop. So the judge, they give -- they put it all on a laptop. The jury has the ability.

So, the jury, if they want to see the checks, if they want to see the handwritten notes, we're not going to know that, because they have it on the laptop back there in the jury room.

Now, miscellaneous, I have seen crazy jury -- I have seen jury notes saying, hey, it's too hot in here. It's too cold in here.

(LAUGHTER) HONIG: We want all turkey sandwiches for lunch, no roast beef.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

HONIG: But one note that we might get at some point, probably wouldn't happen today, is, we are stuck. What do we do?

SANCHEZ: Yes.

HONIG: We can't reach unanimity.

You never want to see that as a prosecutor. But that's how you find out. And, ultimately, eventually, probably, they will return a note just saying, we have a verdict. They won't say what the verdict is.

When it says, we have a verdict, then we go into the whole courtroom drama. Everyone goes back into the courtroom. And the jury reads the verdict.

SANCHEZ: And history is made, right?

HONIG: Yes.

SANCHEZ: This is a historic case.

To the question of the jury potentially being stuck...

HONIG: Yes.

SANCHEZ: ... and what you just drew when it comes to the actual -- actually, I believe it's this one.

HONIG: There you go.

SANCHEZ: All the potential charges.

We got reporting earlier in the day that the defense team, Trump's team, was concerned about a potential Allen charge...

HONIG: Yes.

SANCHEZ: ... which would potentially come back from Judge Merchan if the jury tells him, hey, we're stuck.

They're concerned that that Allen charge may lead to some of the holdouts that don't want to convict Donald Trump to compromise. And then that would create a scenario in which they would split charges. How realistic is that?

HONIG: Oh, Allen charges absolutely happened. If we get a note saying we're stuck, at a certain point, the judge doesn't just say, OK, that's it, everyone go home.

Then the judge brings out the heavy artillery and says, OK, folks, it is your job, if humanly possible, to work together to reach unanimity. It's your duty if you can get there. And if you don't do it, by the way, jury, we're just going to have to do this all again with the next jury. It works, not always. But a lot of times, it can break a deadlock.

And, Boris, I just want to anticipate a question that's on the mind probably have a lot of viewers.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

HONIG: When?

SANCHEZ: That was my next question.

HONIG: Right?

(LAUGHTER)

HONIG: When? I mean, it's obvious. When?

We don't know. But I will just tell you my personal experience.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

HONIG: I have seen juries come back in one hour. We're already past that mark.

I have seen juries -- I hate to say this -- I have seen a jury take eight full days of deliberation. So, we don't know. They're not told how long they're expected. This is the sort of black box of our criminal justice process. We don't know what happens in that room. We will get little hints here and there.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

HONIG: And then we will probably see a result at some point.

SANCHEZ: Will they go through the weekend?

HONIG: They will not work on Saturday or Sunday.

SANCHEZ: OK.

HONIG: But it could well be they get to the end of the day Friday, they don't have a verdict. Then they come back Monday. It could well be.

But unless it was an extraordinary circumstance, I don't think they would want to, and I don't think the judge would bring them in Saturday, Sunday.

SANCHEZ: Elie Honig, appreciate the insight. Thanks so much.

HONIG: All right, let's wait and see.

SANCHEZ: Yes -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Joining us now, we have jury consultant and attorney Alan Tuerkheimer.

So, Alan, set the scene for us a little bit. How does a jury begin deliberations in a case like this? How do they just really kind of get started and into the meat of this?

ALAN TUERKHEIMER, JURY CONSULTANT: As you can imagine, they are incredibly eager to finally talk about this case. It's been six weeks, 22 witnesses, openings, closings, everything in between, and they're not able to talk about the case on breaks.

They know each other. They probably know what each other, what the other fellow jurors do for a living about their kids, their family, but nothing about the case.

So, what typically happens when jurors start to deliberate -- and, like Elie said, we do not know. It's the jury's fiefdom, and nobody's in there. We can't know for sure.

But what I have typically seen in mock jury deliberations and talking to jurors after verdicts, once they get in, they just unburden themselves. They just start talking about the case. They talk about what they liked. Oh, this witness was persuasive. Oh, did you see what the defense lawyer was talking about during his closing or any aspect that struck them.

Or some might just come in and say, well, I really think he's guilty or I really think he's not guilty. And then, after some semblance of this cathartic process happens, then, usually, there's an initial poll taken just so jurors get a lay of the land, and they have a bit of a road map in terms of what they're going to do.

And, at this point, leaders emerge. Personalities play a prominent role in how the jurors proceed through the verdict form. But it's so fascinating and it's exciting. And, hopefully, after the verdict, we will get to hear from the jurors to hear how it went down.

But that's typically how jurors receive a case. And there's no doubt they want to get it right and they're ready to deliberate.

KEILAR: Yes, that's so interesting that they kind of just do a download, because, as you said, they haven't been able to talk about this.

The jury instructions, did anything stand out to you? Was there anything in them that you think really may have impacted the jury, or not really?

TUERKHEIMER: Well, there was that part about Michael Cohen where you can't just -- I think it said something along the lines of convicting based on his testimony alone. That was a little strange, but nothing really stood out.

It seemed pretty typical of these New York pattern instructions. Of course, this is not a typical case. But that's what judges do. They spend time reading the law. Jurors listen to it. And, in this case, what's somewhat unusual -- it's not that uncommon -- but jurors -- that's it. They don't have the law with them.

[13:15:16]

And so if you think about it, the law is pretty complex. And for at least 10 of the jurors, minus the two lawyers...

KEILAR: Yes.

TUERKHEIMER: ... it's ambiguous. It's new information.

So they're going to have -- they will probably spend some time seeking clarification. Whether or not they ask the two lawyers for clarification or they actually send a note to the judge, that remains to be seen.

KEILAR: Well, let me -- Alan, let me ask you about that, because, as you said, they don't have the law with them. They do have the two lawyers with them.

And that's really interesting that you said they might kind of lean on the expertise of the lawyers, instead of -- if they didn't have the lawyers, they might be sending a question to the judge. Talk a little bit more about the dynamics of having these two attorneys on the jury and whether that could be really influential.

TUERKHEIMER: There are certainly examples of where lawyers get on juries and they just let it play out. They don't want their role to be magnified. And maybe they just take a back seat.

But I think, generally, for the most part, lawyers will tend to -- they will be the authority in the jury. And whether or not they insert themselves during the discussion, if jurors have a question about the law, well, who are they going to ask?

They're going to ask the lawyers that are sitting right there on the jury. And they will defer to them on questions of the law and maybe even some of the other aspects of the case that they're deliberating on.

Now, what's really interesting is, there are two lawyers on the case, on the jury. So, with one lawyer, well, you can say, all right, that lawyer might have an outsized role, but, with two of them, what if they disagree or one of them thinks guilty and not guilty at some point? That -- it'll be really interesting to see.

And certainly, no question, you want every single juror on your side, but if you're prosecution or the defense, you really want these two lawyers on your side during the deliberation.

KEILAR: Yes, no doubt. You make me want to be in that room. I want to be a fly on the wall.

Alan Tuerkheimer, thank you so much. We appreciate your insights.

TUERKHEIMER: Thanks, Brianna. KEILAR: So, ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, according to a new

CNN analysis, Israel used American-made weapons in its deadly strike on a camp in Rafah that killed dozens of Palestinians, including women and children, the discovery made just hours after the White House said the attack did not cross President Biden's red line. Will this change things?

And we're with the president as he hits the campaign trail today, and he has one goal in mind, and that is to win back black voters.

And we just got some breaking news. A Louisville judge just dropped all charges against pro golfer Scottie Scheffler, as previously unreleased video of him in the back of a patrol car is leaked on social media.

We have more on that and other stories ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[13:22:28]

SANCHEZ: Happening now, President Biden is in Philadelphia looking to persuade African-American voters. And he's making a rare joint appearance with the vice president, Kamala Harris.

KEILAR: Yes, that's right.

And this is really -- it's the beginning of a nationwide effort to appeal to this key voting bloc, as recent polls indicate Democrats have lost some support. I mean, they're very alarmed about this, particularly from black men.

We have senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak in Philadelphia following this.

Kevin, these poll numbers are a flashing red light. What is Biden doing about it?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, I think if you were to boil down the strategy here, it's trying to meet black voters where they are.

Really, the underlying strategy that the president will lay out today and announce today is trying to use these trusted networks, these trusted voices to reach black voters, whether it's in barbershops, whether it's in churches, whether it's on block parties, to really try and make his case.

And I think there are two key facts that the Biden campaign are looking at. One, black voters were absolutely essential to his victory in 2020, particularly in a place like Pennsylvania, in a place like Philadelphia, where black voters can really close the margin and put the state over the top.

The other fact that they're looking at is that there is no guarantee that black voters will go for Biden this time around. And, certainly, polls have shown a softening of support, particularly among black men. And I think that's the reason that you're hearing the campaign say today that they are not taking any voters for granted and that they will speak directly to those communities.

Now, I was just speaking with two people. They co-founded The Collective PAC, which is part of this organizing effort. And I asked them, what are the challenges in reaching black voters specifically?

Listen to what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEFANIE BROWN JAMES, CO-FOUNDER, THE COLLECTIVE PAC: I think the challenges are similar to many other communities. And that's making sure that you can reach everyone where they are.

Knocking on doors is important. Texting folks is important. Being on social media is important with a message that resonates for that community. So we know that black folks are not a monolithic community. So, having specific information about what the Biden/Harris administration has done is important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: So, Joe Biden is not the only candidate here who's trying to make inroads with black voters. You have seen former President Trump also try and take advantage of some of this dissatisfaction.

We saw him at a rally in the Bronx last week appearing with some rap artists. A Biden adviser called that today a janky rap concert. And so, certainly, I think they are very aware of the challenges ahead, but very eager to speak to these voters directly, guys.

[13:25:10]

SANCHEZ: A janky concert? Those are fighting words.

KEILAR: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Kevin Liptak from Philadelphia, thank you so much.

LIPTAK: Yes.

SANCHEZ: We want to break down the numbers now with CNN's senior data reporter Harry Enten.

Harry, this softening in the polling, show us why the Biden campaign is worried.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Why are they worried?

I mean, take a look at the numbers now and compare it to where we were four years ago at this particular point among black voters. And we see a clear decline in support. At this point, Joe Biden's just getting 70 percent of the black vote. Four years ago at this point, he was at 81 percent.

Look at that doubling of support for Donald Trump from 10 percent up to 21 percent. Boris, Brianna, if that held through the election, it would be the best performance for a Republican presidential candidate among black voters in 64 years, since Richard Nixon back in 1960.

Now, if you want to break down the black electorate and figure out where exactly is this declining support for Joe Biden coming from, take a look at this age breakdown. Look here. If you look at those black voters age 50 and over, they're still overwhelmingly supporting Joe Biden. Look at that, 85 percent to 8 percent.

But look at black voters under the age of 50. Donald Trump in a recent average of polls is getting -- get this -- 27 percent support from them, Joe Biden at just 64 percent.

So, you know, we were talking about -- you heard that interview -- can't treat black voters as a monolith. This age breakdown shows it. It shows that younger black voters are far less supportive of the president than older black voters are.

KEILAR: Yes, that is huge, that number there.

What kind of impact are we talking about? What kind of impact could this have on the election, Harry?

ENTEN: Yes, obviously, those are national polls.

But let's say that we funneled this down to the state level, right, this declining level of support among black voters for Joe Biden. What type of damage would that do to him in the Electoral College?

Well, if you just took that into account and you didn't shift any other voters, take a look here. In 2020, based upon the current apportionment, Joe Biden would win 303 electoral votes to Donald Trump's 235.

But taking into account that shift among black voters, now, with just this shift among black voters, Donald Trump wins in the Electoral College 291 electoral votes to 247. Why is that? Take a look at the states that shift.

You would see that the states that shift are Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania, where Kevin is right now, and Wisconsin. That alone would do it. And that is why black voters are so pivotal to Joe Biden's chances to win reelection.

SANCHEZ: Harry Enten, alarms going off on the Democratic side, a big opening for Republicans. That is an alarm right there.

KEILAR: Blinking lights.

ENTEN: Absolutely. It's a huge alarm. It's spiraling. It's ambulance. It's police sirens. It's any alarm you can think of. That should be what's going off on the Democratic side. These numbers, to be honest, could be deadly to Joe Biden's campaign.

SANCHEZ: Harry Enten, thanks so much for breaking it down for us.

ENTEN: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Appreciate it.

Next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL: For the first time in American history, jurors are debating whether to convict or acquit a former president.

Coming up, we're going to talk to one of Donald Trump's former attorneys about the deliberations.

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