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Disconnect Between White House And Israeli Government; Donald Trump's Criminal Trial; Potential Indictment Of Sean Diddy Combs; Scotty Scheffler Charges Dropped; North Korea Sending Balloons Full Of Trash; Impact Of Trump's Trial On Election. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 29, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Does seem that there has been a disconnect between the White House and the Israeli government, specifically with Netanyahu, over the deaths of civilians. And to hear that you think that there's a cord between the two, it just seems different than what has been said publicly.

MICHAEL OREN, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: I don't disagree with you. There's been tremendous criticism from Washington about Israel's conduct of the war and the issue of civilians. And Israel's reply is that the numbers published by Hamas are not only inflated, they include the number of terrorists we've killed. It includes the number of people who just die of natural causes in Gaza. It includes the number of Palestinians who were killed by the roughly 12 percent of Palestinian rockets that fall short and kill hundreds of Palestinians. If you deduct all that, you get close to one combatant death for every one civilian death.

And every civilian death, by the way, is a tragedy. It's one civilian death too many. But compared to any other modern conflict, including the United States' involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, where the ratio was four civilians to every combatant death or nine civilians, to every combatant death, that is a record that's not been matched by any other army in history, including the United States military. So we're going to have an issue with the Biden administration about those numbers. But at base, I think the goals of the war remained unchanged, destroying Hamas, assuring that October seventh can't happen again.

SANCHEZ: I think we should point out that the White House has assessed that those numbers historically have been fairly accurate coming from the Palestinian Ministry of Health. Nevertheless, Ambassador Michael Oren, we have to leave the conversation there. We do appreciate your time. A new hour of CNN News Central starts right now. So we are waiting on what will be a historic verdict. As the jury deliberates in the criminal hush money trial of Donald Trump, the former president knows that by the end of the day, he could be a convicted felon.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And a CNN exclusive, a federal grand jury could soon hear from those who have accused Sean Diddy Combs of abuse. That could be the last, last step before a potential indictment of the hip-hop mogul. Hello, I'm Brianna Keilar, alongside Boris Sanchez, and we're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN News Central. The fate of one of America's presidents now in the hands of 12 New Yorkers. The jury in the first criminal trial of former President Trump has been deliberating for more than three hours now. They've worked through their lunch. Seven men, five women who will decide if the presumed nominee for president, Republican nominee, is guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business invoices, vouchers, and checks.

SANCHEZ: Not always fun to work through lunch, but the jury is doing it. Prosecutors say that these are felony level offenses because Trump did them to conceal a hush money payment to a porn star from 2016 voters. This is likely to be the only one of four criminal cases that Trump is facing that breaches resolution before the November election. And as the world awaits a verdict, Trump remains in the courthouse. In Manhattan, let's take you there now with CNN's Paula Reid and Kristen Holmes. Paula, let's start with you. Before they entered the room, Judge Juan Merchan went through 55 pages of instructions with the jurors. What stood out to you?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, 55 pages certainly sounds like a lot, but if you think about the nature of this historic task that they are undertaking, you really need that long of a roadmap to get you there. The judge made a lot of important points. First and foremost, he reminded the jury of the burden, that this is beyond a reasonable doubt, and the burden is with the prosecutors. He told them, quote, the people, so the government, must prove beyond a reasonable doubt every element of the crime, including the defendant is the person who committed that crime. The burden of proof never shifts from the people to the defendant. Now, this is significant because he also reminded the jury that they can't hold it against Trump, that he never took the stand. It's not his burden to prove that he is not guilty. But when it comes to other folks who did take the stand, he offered another really significant instruction. He told them that if they believe a witness at any point in their testimony said something that was false, that they can either discard the false portion of that testimony or the testimony as a whole. And that could be critical because, of course, this case in many ways relies on the testimony of Michael Cohen.

And defense attorneys argued to the jury yesterday in their closings that Cohen lied when he was on the stand. So this could be something that really kicks off some significant debate inside the jury room because of some jurors believe that Cohen lied. Some of them may believe that, all right, all this testimony should go. Others may believe that it's only a portion. So what we're waiting for right now is what is expected to be the first question or two from this jury. They have an incredibly complicated task ahead of them. They have access to a lot of the evidence on a laptop, but not everything, including they don't have transcripts of testimony. So we highly expect that they will likely come back a few times with some questions. So until then, we're watching and waiting.

[14:05:09]

KEILAR: And Kristen, I know you have some new details on how the former president and those in his camp are viewing these deliberations. What can you tell us?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I want to start with the fact that nobody knows anything. If there's anything they know, it's that they have no idea what's actually going to happen. So that's the big caveat here. But Donald Trump's team is watching a few things very carefully, and they're viewing them optimistically. Now, one of the things that they are viewing optimistically is the fact that the jury has been gone for longer than 45 minutes, essentially telling me that at one point, they believed that if there was going to be a guilty verdict, that it would come back rather quickly. And every moment after that, they feel more and more optimistic. The other thing that they have routinely pointed to is the idea of the data from the 2020 election, particularly the data from the 2020 election. And I think that's a very important thing. And I think that's in Manhattan. They believe this case is going to be purely political. Obviously, we have no indication of that, but this is their core belief. So if you look at the data, the voting data from 2020, and you crunch those numbers, it would indicate that out of every 12 residents living in Manhattan, at least one is a Republican voter.

So they are hanging on to this idea that a potential Republican voter or Trump supporter is sitting on that jury and could lead to a hung jury. Now, the last part of this, again, and they want to be very clear when they're telling me this, that this could be an indication of something good, or it could just be people being polite, is that when they have had guests, pro-Trump observers in the courtroom, there have been one or two jurors who have given some kind of indication that they are receiving those guests in a positive way. This is clearly, again, grasping at straws. They are trying to read any sort of TV news. They are trying to read any sort of TV news. They are trying to read any sort of TV news. Examining the jury, and they know that. They believe that these jurors could just be being polite to their various guests, but they are trying to hold out hope here that there could be a hung jury.

KEILAR: Yeah, holding out that hope.

SANCHEZ: I'm going to quote Kristen Holmes from now on. Nobody knows anything. At least two and a half hours in, we really don't know anything.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: It's true.

SANCHEZ: Kristen and Paula, thank you both so much. Let's dig deeper now with former Florida judge Jeff Swartz. Judge, thank you so much for being with us. I want to get your reaction initially to Judge Merchan's jury instructions. Is there anything in there you would have done differently in charging the jurors?

JEFF SWARTZ, FORMER FLORIDA JUDGE: Generally, from what I've been able to read, and I kind of followed it along, it's almost like a transcript. There's really nothing that I would have done differently. I would phrase things differently because the standard jury instructions in Florida are a little bit different, but the meaning is the same. When it was discussed that a juror can believe all any part of or none of a witness's testimony, that's pretty much the standard language wherever you go. They can sit there and say, yeah, Michael Cohen lied in the past about things, but the question is, did he lie to us? And whether they actually see that he lied about anything still doesn't mean that everything he said was wrong, especially if it's corroborated. So that's what they're going to go through right now.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, I want to zoom in on that because Merchan specifically addressed the issue of witness credibility. He said that they could disregard any testimony they believed to be false, while also telling jurors that they couldn't convict Donald Trump on Michael Cohen's testimony alone. How do you think jurors will interpret those instructions?

SWARTZ: Well, I think they interpreted, and that was really part of the argument that was made by the state. They said, look, this case is not about Michael Cohen. This case is about Donald Trump, the defendant, and it's about the evidence against him. And they argued they could convict Donald Trump without Michael Cohen, but Michael kind of ties things together. I think that's the way the jury is going to look at it. We don't necessarily have to believe everything he told us, but we do have to believe those things that other people told us he was telling the truth about. And I think that's the way that the state tried to argue it, and I think that's the way they're going to think through it. Remember, you have two jurors who are lawyers. They've heard these things before, whether they're trial lawyers or not. They went to law school. They know this stuff. They had to take courses in this stuff. And so they're sitting there saying, okay, this is what we're supposed to do. And I really believe that in this particular jury, if the two lawyers agree with each other, that's where the jury's going to go.

SANCHEZ: Wow. Judge, there's also been a lot of speculation about a potential Allen charge, a dynamite charge issued by Judge Merchan in case jurors don't agree. Under which circumstance do you think Merchan would issue this charge specifically? And based on what we've seen of him, do you expect he'd be open to doing so in this case? At what point?

[14:10:09]

SWARTZ: I don't know any judge who tries a case this long, who has a jury come back after a certain period of time and they don't have a definition of it, saying, we can't reach a verdict, we're hopelessly hung. At that point, the judge is going to give the Allen charge, which says, I want you to go back. I want you to start listening to each other. And if you're in the minority, start listening to the majority and see why they're there and whether you really have what's known as a reasonable doubt or a doubt that somehow is fixed in your mind that you're not paying attention to the evidence. That's basically what an Allen charge says. And it is a dynamite charge. It basically says, get back there and get to work and reach a verdict. We put a lot of time into this case and a lot of effort. OK, and you shouldn't short circuit it this way. You need to reach a verdict. And that's basically what an Allen charge is. And I don't know a judge who wouldn't give it. So Merchan clearly will give an Allen charge. SANCHEZ: Judge, I can neither confirm nor deny that Brianna and I are taking bets on when we're going to see a verdict. But do you have any predictions on how long deliberations are going to take?

SWARTZ: Oh, Boris, I got to tell you, I gave I've been doing this for 50 years. I got to tell you something. I gave up trying to guess what juries are going to do or how long they're going to be there. That's why they create pools with little squares in them for you to bet on. OK, and I have to believe that somewhere in CNN that's going around. I can't tell you which square to pick.

SANCHEZ: I really I can neither confirm nor deny, sir. Judge Jeff Schwartz, we appreciate you. Thanks so much for being with us.

SWARTZ: Have a great day.

SANCHEZ: Of course. Still plenty more news to come on News Central, including sources revealing to CNN that federal investigators are making moves that could lead to a possible investigation. And that's why we're here today to talk to you about the indictment against Sean Diddy Combs, what this means for the investigation.

KEILAR: And floating filth, North Korea, sending balloons full of trash across the border of South Korea. The strategy behind the smell.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:09]

SANCHEZ: Breaking news. A judge in Kentucky has dropped all charges against the world number one golfer, Scotty Scheffler. He was arrested outside the PGA Championship earlier this month. Scheffler had faced several charges, including felony second-degree assault on a police officer for allegedly dragging an officer with his car and a number of other lesser charges.

KEILAR: Scheffler had called this incident a big misunderstanding when he tried to drive around the scene of a fatal crash there outside the golf course in Louisville. We have CNN's Gabe Cohen here with us now. Tell us what led to these charges being dropped, Gabe.

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, so the prosecutor addressed the court just a little while ago and said they wanted all charges dropped. He said their office had looked at all of the evidence in this case and said that they really didn't have probable cause to charge Scheffler with any of these charges, let alone that felony charge for assaulting a police officer, and that in fact, the evidence really corroborated Scheffler's take on the events that this was all a big misunderstanding. And so the case has been dismissed. It is over now, but there's still a lot of questions about the actions of that police detective and how Louisville police handled this in the aftermath, especially with this new video that's being shown on screen. This is leaked body camera video that shows just after Scheffler was arrested. He's in the back of a police car explaining to another officer his side of things, how things played out. He says that a different officer had told him to go around traffic

into those incoming lanes. When he saw Detective Gillis, he had his window down. He thought Gillis was maybe a security guard who was mistaken or confused, but as he was driving by, as Scheffler puts it in the video, he says that Gillis was reaching into his car. He grabbed my shoulder and hit me. It seemed to be a little over- aggressive because the entrance to the golf course was open and I pulled up a little bit because I was afraid. I thought he was going to start hitting me and I didn't know who he was. He did not tell me he was a police officer. All I saw was a yellow jacket. And then he describes what happened in the seconds after that, something we've seen on video from surveillance that shows Gillis chasing after Scheffler's car. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: What happened is you kept going and you took him with you--

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTTY SCHEFFLER, AMERICAN PROFESSIONAL GOLFER: Yes.

UNKNOWN: -- while he's a pedestrian, okay?

SCHEFFLER: Yes.

UNKNOWN: So you took him with your car--

(CROSSTALK)

SCHEFFLER: Yes.

UNKNOWN: --and drug him, okay?

SCHEFFLER: Yeah

UNKNOWN: Which is not a good thing, right?

SCHEFFLER: I'm very aware that was not a good thing.

UNKNOWN: To make it even worse, when he asked you to get out of the car, you refused to get out of the car.

SCHEFFLER: I still did not was not aware he was a police officer. I was actually looking out the window of the car to try to find a police officer. I asked--

(CROSSTALK)

UNKNOWN: We're all right here and he was there.

SCHEFFLER: Believe me, sir, if I could--

(CROSSTALK)

UNKNOWN: We're all wearing yellow vests so you can see us. SCHEFLER: If I knew he was a police officer, I would have been much

more less afraid, but a panic kind of set in. As you can see, I'm still shaking because I was afraid. I didn't know who he was. He didn't say police, get out of the car. He just hit me with his flashlight and yelled, get out of the car. So I--

(CROSSTALK)

UNKNOWN: We're wearing a lot of police gear.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

COHEN: Scheffler's attorney has said they don't want to pursue any civil case at this point. Scheffler just wants to move on, but certainly, Louisville police are going to get a lot of questions about the actions of that officer.

SANCHEZ: Notably why his body cam wasn't on. Right?

COHEN: Yeah, which we know is a violation of their policy. They said he received some sort of counseling from a supervisor, but that's as far as it goes.

[14:20:09]

KEILAR: I have to say, when this whole thing happened, of all the golfers this could happen to, it seemed pretty clear. Because Scotty Scheffler, I've jokingly called him the Kirk Cousins of golf, right? He's just such a Boy Scout. It seemed very unusual.

COHEN: And I think that's what raised a lot of red flags, right?

SANCHEZ: Yeah

KEILAR: Yeah

COHEN: Because people think of him as sort of a boring guy who's a rule follower, says all the right things. And so this felt shocking.

KEILAR: Yeah, you get him right there on the camera there. That is who he is. You see it. Gabe, thank you so much for the update. We really appreciate it.

COHEN: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Now to a CNN exclusive. The Department of Justice may be taking steps to indict music mogul Sean Diddy Combs.

KEILAR: Two sources close to the investigation tell us that a federal grand jury may soon hear from Diddy's accusers. Since November, Combs has been named in eight civil lawsuits, seven of them directly accusing him of sexual assault. CNN Entertainment correspondent Elizabeth Wagmeister is here with more on her exclusive reporting. Elizabeth, tell us what you're learning.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: We have learned from two sources that potential witnesses have been contacted and notified by federal investigators that they may be called to testify in front of a grand jury. Now, there is no timeline for when this may happen. We are hearing from sources that the investigation is very much still underway. We remember back in late March when two of Diddy's homes in Los Angeles and Miami were raided. That was the start of this criminal investigation. And now with our reporting that this could go to the grand jury, this is absolutely the biggest escalation in this investigation and gives some indication that authorities are looking towards a possible indictment. Now, as you mentioned, there have been a slew of lawsuits against the music mogul. He faces eight seven of which are directly accusing him of sexual assault. I hear from a source that many of these accusers who have filed these civil suits have been brought in for questioning, some of them being called in numerous times. We hear that many of these potential witnesses have been cooperating with these investigators, some even offering up evidence that they believe could be of note for this investigation.

SANCHEZ: Elizabeth, the majority of the plaintiffs in the civil suits, they've now been interviewed by federal investigators in the criminal probe. We know the LAPD previously said that they couldn't bring charges based on that 2016 Cassie video because of the statute of limitations. What could federal investigators be looking at here?

WAGMEISTER: That's absolutely right. Because of the statute of limitations, that provides really a blockade for many of these accusers. But we do know that this federal investigation, which to your point, Boris, is of criminal nature, is largely based on the accusations that are in these many mounting lawsuits. So this is a criminal investigation at this point. Of course, we remember that when Diddy's homes were raided, that his attorneys called it a gross overuse of military force. They called it a witch hunt. We know that Diddy has denied many of these allegations that have come against him, although he hasn't responded to all of them. So at this point, it is an investigation. We have to wait to see where this may go. But again, this is a large escalation now that we know that potential witnesses have been notified that they do want to bring them to testify in front of a federal grand jury in New York City. So much more to come. But also another thing that we have to watch out for, Boris, as these current cases are being litigated, are more accusers going to come forward. There has been a constant domino effect since November when that first lawsuit from Cassie came out. And now, could there be more?

KEILAR: Yeah, they just keep coming. They do. Elizabeth Wagmeister, thank you so much for that reporting. And still ahead, what could a guilty verdict in the Trump hush money trial mean for the election? New polling shows, gives us a sense of whether independence will be swayed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:09]

KEILAR: As the jury in former President Trump's hush money trial deliberates, which they're doing right now, we're told that Trump allies and advisors think every minute the jurors are still in there, it's better for the former president. And it has been nearly three hours so far.

SANCHEZ: Now, let's discuss this with two of our senior political analysts, Gloria Borger and Mark Preston. Join us now. Gloria, outside the courtroom Trump didn't sound --

(CROSSTALK)

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No.

SANCHEZ: -- so optimistic, right? He said, quote, Mother Teresa could not beat these charges. These charges are rigged. The whole thing is rigged. Sounds like he's trying to set expectations low.

BORGER: Well, I think he's been saying that all along, to be fair. I mean, he has always set expectations low because it's in Manhattan. And he believes nobody loves him in Manhattan, which may be true. And that the charges were rigged. And this was the result of the weaponized Biden Justice Department, which is false. And so I think what he showed in that little presser was his nervousness. I think he didn't-didn't he look nervous to you? He looked upset and nervous and worried and full of excuses.

KEILAR: It's not a fun position to be in.

BORGER: No.

KEILAR: Right? Even if you're trying to capitalize on it, I imagine it's definitely not a fun position to be in. What does this mean as the jury is deliberating?