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Jury Deliberating in Hush Money Criminal Trial of Donald Trump; Jury in Hush Money Criminal Trial Asks to Hear Testimony Again from David Pecker and Jury Instructions from Judge; Disturbing Texts Revealed from Goon Squad, Police in NYT Report; Alito Won't Recuse, Blames Wife for Flags in Letter to Lawmakers. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 30, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: And that's what a lot of African Americans are concerned about, specifically black men. We know what the racial issues are in this country. Black people don't need to be lectured on that. You need to talk about how you're going to improve our plight in life. And the president isn't doing enough to speak to those issues.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: There's a lot going on here. Julie, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming in. Shermichael, thank you, as always.

SINGLETON: A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We are on verdict watch in the criminal case against Donald Trump, but that watch delayed a little bit because the jury has asked for key pieces of testimony. Why one side might like that a bit more.

"My wife is fond of flying flags. I am not." Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito refuses to recuse himself from January 6th cases despite the controversial flags that Trump supporters have adopted seen at two of his homes.

And just when you thought that Zoom snafus were so 2020, meet the man caught driving, driving during a virtual court hearing after being charged for driving with a suspended license.

I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan. Sara is out today, and this is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

This morning, prosecutors, defense lawyers, legal analysts around the world trying to figure out what the jury is thinking. It is verdict watch in the criminal case against Donald Trump. The jury has the case. They have been deliberating for four hours, but they asked to be read key pieces of testimony, testimony that largely involves David Pecker, the man that ran "The National Enquirer," testimony about discussions that he says he had with Donald Trump himself about burying stories before the 2016 election.

The jury also asked to hear their jury instructions from the judge once again.

With us this morning, CNN's Brynn Gingras from outside the courthouse. Within an hour or so, we should learn a whole lot of new information, Brynn.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, John, testimony as you're laying out for the viewers that in closing arguments the prosecution said pay attention to this testimony of David Pecker. The prosecutor who gave those closing arguments is saying he believed his testimony was utterly devastating. So it's certainly interesting that the jurors are requesting to hear back some of this testimony, though it's unclear, of course, why.

So as you just laid out, they had two requests before they left yesterday, the jurors. One request was to hear back four different parts of testimony regarding David Pecker and his interactions with Donald Trump about the Karen McDougal deal, and also a testimony from both David Pecker and Michael Cohen from that August 2015 Trump Tower meeting where they sort of, according to prosecutors, hatched out this catch and kill scheme, the basis, according to prosecutors, of this conspiracy that they allege against Donald Trump.

So very, very key parts. Unclear exactly what parts, you know, definitely unclear what parts they're going to read back. But we're hearing its about 30 minutes or so that that's going to take to read all that back to the jurors.

Their second request, as you noted, they'd like to hear back jury instruction. What's unclear this morning is how much of the jury instruction. They don't get a copy of that when they go back into the room and deliberate. So do they want to hear all of it, all 55 pages, or do they want to hear a portion? The judge asked them to clarify that. So we'll hear when court resumes at 9:30 this morning.

So look, when court picks back up, that's where we start off. We'll hear back the readback of this witness testimony, we'll figure out how much of jury instructions will be read back, if a portion of it, all of it. We don't know yet. And then the deliberations are going to continue.

One little thing to point out as well that's interesting for the jurors, they actually have a computer back in their deliberation rooms that has all the evidence on it that they can access. But again, it's the testimony that they don't have access to, and that's what here when court starts back up, guys.

BERMAN: A computer without wi-fi capabilities, interesting. All right, Brynn Gingras, great to see you this morning. Thank you very much. Kate?

BOLDUAN: John hitting on the least interesting part about this. Just kidding. I'm just kidding.

Joining us right now, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers is here, also criminal defense attorney and former New York prosecutor Bernarda Villalona. Thanks, guys, for being here. OK, so Jennifer add the questions up that the jury has now asked for

the judge as Brynn was -- Brynn was pulling together, and what is the range of what it could mean?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think prosecutors are happy with these questions because the jury is doing what prosecutors asked them to do, go through the evidence in this way, evidence that initially you don't even have to think about what Michael Cohen says.

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Think about what David Pecker says, and largely in chronological order, think about the meeting about catch and kill when the whole scheme was set up to influence the election by catching and killing these stories, right? So I think they're happy because this evidence as it will come back into them in the form of the testimony largely benefits their side of things, right.

So that's what the parties are thinking about. And the defense, you know, maybe a little bit worried is what they're doing, but you never know why they're doing yes, right.

BOLDUAN: What's the motivation of it?

RODGERS: Is this 11 jurors trying to convince one to come over to the conviction? Is it the opposite? We don't know. But to the extent we're reading tea leaves, I think prosecutors are happy when the evidence that they're asking for and that's going to be read to them benefits their narrative.

BOLDUAN: And to continue reading tea leaves, asking for Michael Cohen's testimony to be read back, can people take that or consider taking that, Bernarda, as prosecutors clearing at least one hurdle with the jury, which is that they're not completely discrediting all of Michael Cohen's testimony flat-out?

BERNARDA VILLALONA, FORMER NEW YORK PROSECUTOR: Yes, absolutely. I think it's quite possible that they've already determined that the document itself, those documents have been falsified, meaning that it wasn't a payment to Michael Cohen for legal services as opposed to that it was reimbursement for the money that he paid for Stormy Daniels. So in terms of Michael Cohen's testimony, for them to ask for it back bag, they haven't completely discredited him.

But remember, it can be two jurors, three jurors, five jurors, half of the jury, we don't know. But the important part is that Michael Cohen's testimony, when they asked for it and David Pecker's testimony about a specific meeting, then they're comparing the testimony between the two, trying to see if it can be corroborated between the two. And it also goes to show you, remember, one of the jury instructions has to deal with accomplice testimony, and on Michael Cohen as an accomplice, you can't just take his testimony alone. You need the corroboration. So perhaps they are looking for that cooperation as well.

BOLDUAN: As you're mentioning the jury instructions, 55 pages. We've kind of talked about it at leading up yesterday how important it was and what the jury needed to take from it. But now, I heard Mark O'Mara (ph), who is an attorney that we all know very well, and he said the fact that even though it is standard in New York that the jury cannot take the instructions back to the room with them, he thinks is pretty ridiculous. The way he described is, it's like, I'm going to read you -- here are 55 pages, read it once and now go put together that piece of furniture with no problems, with no broken parts. And he thinks it could be grounds for appeal. What do you think of that?

RODGERS: It's not grounds for appeal. We were actually talking about this before, because I also come from the federal system where they give them the jury instructions. I mean, why you would want jurors to be like, oh, let's try to remember what the law is and not have it in front of us I also think is crazy. But it's the standard in New York. It's been through appeal a million times. There's no way its grounds for appeal. But to me, it's foolish. I wish they would change that.

VILLALONA: Look, I've been practicing here in New York for 17 years. I was a prosecutor here in New York for 13 years. So it's normal to me for the juror not to have the instructions. That's why it's also normal for the jury to come back and ask the judge --

BOLDUAN: Ask a lot of questions.

VILLALONA: -- read me these jury instructions. So I'm curious to see what specifically do they want from the jury instructions? Then we'll have that note. One of the first notes should be that today. Do they want the law itself or do they want accomplice testimony, or do they want conspiracy or how to evaluate credibility? Because that's going to give us some more insight as to what they're thinking.

BOLDUAN: Kristen Holmes is reporting, or my colleague Kristen Holmes is reporting that Trump advisers have observed one or two jurors through the process specifically that have shown what they are kind of describing as sign that maybe, possibly, likely they will side with Donald Trump. They're on his side or believing the case of the defense is laying out more and hoping that that will end in a mistrial. What do you think of those -- reading tea leaves, what do you think?

VILLALONA: Absolute nonsense. I was in a courtroom yesterday and I'm looking at -- first of all, it's very difficult to see all of the jury. So highly unlikely that they saw jurors making faces like, hey, let me give you the thumbs.

BOLDUAN: I don't think they were that explicit.

VILLALONA: Wait, here's the wink, wink. I got you, Donald Trump. Highly unlikely. I mean, these jurors, like, they're very focused. They're paying attention to the judge. They're not even really looking around into a courtroom at all. Like everything is a tight ship there, so I highly doubt that.

BOLDUAN: Let's see together what comes this morning, and it's all about to get back underway. It's great to see you guys. Thank you for being here.

John?

BERMAN: Graphic images of crime scenes, including corpses, discussions of taking nude pictures of a woman who had been arrested, details of the group chat amongst six former police officers convicted of torturing black men.

This morning, prosecutors in New York signal they intend to bring new charges this against Harvey Weinstein. Why they say many new accusers will come forward.

And then cute videos of babies and toddlers or sinister exploitation?

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Why a group of young people is fighting back against parents posting pictures of their children on social media.

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BERMAN: Photos of corpses, suspects tased, even jokes about rape, new allegations and a review of the Rankin County Sheriff's Office in Mississippi after a report in "The New York Times" revealed explosive texts messages between the deputies who called themselves "The Goon Squad" and other officers, some of whom were still on the force.

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Our senior national correspondent, Ryan Young who has covered this story from the beginning joins us now.

What are we learning this morning -- Ryan.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, we've been following this story for over a year. This report from "The New York Times" and "The Mississippi Today" I can honestly say is explosive.

There is no access to these chat that we can even get ourselves. In fact, the Rankin County Sheriff's Department is asking "The New York Times" to see this themselves, but it kind of details a lot of the stuff that was going on behind the scenes.

The WhatsApp group chat was started, first of all, because it is encrypted, and so unless someone gives you access to it, there have been no way anybody would been able to review this, but some of the things have been going back and forth is sometimes when they would see a dead body, they would share that picture amongst a group chat.

They would joke about things going on. In fact, one of the messages talks about when Deputy Hunter Elward asked, "Did you tase the man in the face?" Or when another officer of the Goon Squad said, "Did you use your taser to shock the man's anus?" So you can see the back and forth.

There is even a time when there was a woman who apparently they had arrested and they were talking about whether or not they would share pictures of this woman's naked body after the arrest. So obviously, there is a lot of questions about how pervasive, how

corrosive was this back and forth Goon Squad with these messages.

Now, some of the people who were involved here says this was just joke. This was just a macabre nature of what was going on, but when you realize that sometimes they were able to coordinate their efforts through WhatsApp, that shows you how whatever happened in this chat group sometimes ended up affecting people.

Now, to go on here, one of the lawyers for one of the men who was arrested, actually, Daniel Updike, Jeff Reynolds, the lawyer says the explanation by some, they were just joking about torturing people in their WhatsApp group rings hollow, given the multiple incidents of torture that have now been documented.

Malik Shabazz, the lead attorney for Jenkins and Parker says the latest revelations regarding the Rankin County, Mississippi Goon Squad text messages are not surprising at all. You understand there is a lot of pain still in this community. I will tell you, the Justice Department is still asking for people in this community to come forward with more things when it comes to talking about the Goon Squad.

But, let's not forget, five members of that squad have already been sent to jail. But at the same time, people believe this is a deeper corrosive problem within that sheriff's department. These messages are starting to bring to light some of the things that people talk about.

John, I will continue to examine this. There is a bunch of people working to get to the bottom of it, but something like this, the WhatsApp group chat, a lot of people want to analyze -- John.

BERMAN: Such disturbing report. Ryan Young, thanks so much for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.

"My wife is solely responsible," the latest defense in the Alito versus Mrs. Alito flag flap.

And new this morning, pilots abort their take-off to avoid a collision with another plane on the runway. The same thing happened at this same airport just weeks ago.

And we have live pictures from Iceland. They are pretty, right? Volcanic eruptions on that island. Scientists expect a lot more flow of lava. The world-famous blue lagoon, which is a lovely place to visit if you can, has been evacuated.

Kate Bolduan saw this footage yesterday, and was speechless when she saw it. It is still going on. We've got new reports on the implications.

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BOLDUAN: Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito is rejecting calls from Congress right now, Democratic members of Congress, in telling lawmakers he will not recuse himself from cases involving the 2020 election or January 6.

This comes after Alito has been wading through controversy when reporting revealed two separate controversial flags known to express support for election deniers were seen at two of his homes.

In an unconventional move, Alito penned a letter to lawmakers saying that it had nothing to do with politics, the flags, and nothing to do with him saying it was his wife's decision.

and here are some of the quotes from this letter: "My wife did fly that flag. My wife was solely responsible. My wife is fond of flying flags, I am not. I asked my wife to take it down, but for several days she refused."

CNN's Joan Biskupic has much more on this. She is joining us now.

Joan, so this is a rare move for a justice to reply to lawmakers in this way?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Well, not really, Kate, because they had actually -- Senate and House leaders had sent a letter to Chief Justice John Roberts asking him to ensure that Justice Samuel Alito would step down from cases involving Donald Trump's immunity and other questions related to the 2020 election protest.

And Samuel Alito responded, look, this is my responsibility. It is not that Chief's. We individually decide whether we are going to recuse and that's exactly right. So that's why he wrote the letter.

And just to give you the top line from this, and his many references to his wife, Martha, and Kate that you've nicely laid out there. He said, my wife is -- the bottom line from him on Martha-Ann and the flags, "My wife is fond of flying flags, I am not. The events were counted above do not meet the applicable standard for recusal. I am therefore required to reject your request."

Now, just so you know, under federal law and the Supreme Court Code, justices and federal judges of all level are supposed to recuse if their impartiality can be reasonably questioned.

So let's go to now why he laid this all at the hands, so to speak, hoisting the flag of Martha-Ann. He has said this from the beginning when this first came to be known, that it was Martha-Ann who flew the inverted flag at their home in suburban Virginia. It was Martha-Ann who flew the Appeal to Heaven flag at their beach house in New Jersey.

And in this letter, he does refer to her many, many times, talking about what her motivations might have been and saying they were not his at all.

And he also, Kate, this it gives us more of an insight into the Alitos as a couple beyond the recusal issue. He said as he writes, "I had nothing whatsoever to do with the flying of the flag. I was not even aware of the upside-down flag until it was called to my attention." And as soon as he saw it, he writes in this letter, "I asked my wife to take get down," but I found this line interesting. "But for several days, she refused."

So I think he just really wanted to show for his own personal reasons, obviously, the tensions within that household and how this was not his responsibility.

[08:25:16]

Now, you should know that this has landed in different ways with members of Congress. Some people have found this somewhat believable, but others have not. And I think we have something that Senator Blumenthal had said to our Kaitlan Collins last night.

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SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I think the time has come for the Chief Justice of the court, Roberts has a responsibility here to show some spine and step into the breach.

I think he ought to use his moral and political force on the court and take actions that may seem symbolic, like refusing to assign opinions to Justice Alito and Justice Thomas.

He should also take away from them their power over specific circuits of the court, geographic areas that all the justices divide among themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BISKUPIC: But the bottom line here is, Sam Alito said, and I am sure that Chief Justice would say, it is not the Chief's hands, that these individual justices are the bosses of themselves. And I guess the subtext in Justice Alito's letter is Martha-Ann has a strong hand in it, too -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Maybe it is also saying, like it or not, this issue is settled for now in terms of where this is from his point of view.

BISKUPIC: From his point of view. Yes, he is not sitting out these cases, and that is what is important. He will not sit out these cases -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it is great to see you, Joan. Thank you so much.

Coming up still for us, verdict watch, Donald Trump is about to head back in to court just as the jury is about to head back in to deliberate.

His future and his fate, what the jury wants to see when court resumes very soon.

And a man's court appearance, not Donald Trump, different man, goes up out as badly as it possibly could. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JUDGE CEDRIC SIMPSON, WASHTENAW COUNTY: Okay, so maybe I don't

understand something. This is driving while license is suspended.

NATALIE PATE, PUBLIC DEFENDER: That is correct, Your Honor.

SIMPSON: And he was just driving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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