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Jury Resumes Deliberation Today; Jury Makes Two Requests to Judge; Sen. Raphael Warnock (D-GA) is Interviewed about Biden Campaigning for Black Voters. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired May 30, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:02]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We are on verdict watch in the criminal case against Donald Trump. Very soon key moments of testimony will be read back to the jury. So, who does that make the most nervous.

And then some of Hollywood's biggest stars are suddenly camera shy. What presidential candidates are having a harder time landing celebrity endorsements this time around.

I'm John Berman, with Kate Bolduan. Sara is out today. And this is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, any moment now, Donald Trump will arrive at court as 12 New Yorkers resume deliberations over his fate and future. The question they will have to answer, did Donald Trump break the law? Court will pick back up with two requests from the jury yesterday. They asked the judge to review those 50 - at least portions of the 55 pages of jury instructions once again.

They also requested to hear four key pieces of testimony. Much of that testimony from David Pecker, the man who published "The National Enquirer," including his direct conversations with Donald Trump about the catch-and-kill scheme to bury damaging news prior to the 2016 election. Trump is charged, a reminder, with 34 counts of falsifying business records to cover up hush money payments to Stormy Daniels, all to influence the 2016 election. Easy again for me to say.

Joining me now, CNN's Brynn Gingras, who is outside court.

Brynn, take us through, what will happen when court resumes.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, like you said, Kate, Donald Trump on his way here now. Once court resumes at 9:30, those two things that judge - or rather the jurors were asking for are going to take place. The reading back of the witness testimony. Remember, just as you said, a key part of this is David Pecker's interactions with Donald Trump. They want read back some witness testimony regards to their interactions over Karen McDougal, but also their discussions that were had during that crucial August 2015 Trump Tower meeting between David Pecker, Michael Cohen, and Donald Trump where prosecutors allege they had their conversations about how this catch- and-kill scheme was going to work. So, these are very key. If you remember, even from the closing arguments, prosecutors really

highlighted David Pecker's testimony, calling it utterly devastating to jurors, really trying to make them focus on his testimony. So, it's unclear why they asked for it, but certainly they are going to hear it back again, or at least portions of it. That is how it's going to start off today.

We expect that to take about 30 minutes or so. And then we're going to hear some more of the jury instructions. What's unclear when court resumes is how much of those jury instructions jurors want to hear back, the entirety, all 55 pages, which took a little bit over an hour yesterday for the judge to read, or just a portion of it. So, we'll find that out when court resumes.

A couple things to remember for these jurors. They've been deliberating for four-and-a-half hours trying to come to a unanimous decision on all of those 34 charges. They basically can stay if they want until 6:00 tonight. Thats something the judge offered to them yesterday. We'll see if they're going to take him up on that.

And also they have some evidence back there with them during the deliberations. It's on a computer. No wi-fi, as John pointed out. But certainly they have all of that evidence to deliberate over. But it's the witness testimony. They do not have the transcripts for or they don't have the transcripts of those jury instructions. So, these are the things that are - they have to request, which they did, and that's where we begin today, guys.

BOLDUAN: All right, Brynn, thank you so much.

John.

BERMAN: All right, with me now, former Manhattan Prosecutor Jeremy Saland and former Trump White House lawyer Jim Schultz.

Jeremy, let me just start with you.

When you first heard that the jury wanted to hear David Pecker's testimony about conversations and meetings he had with Donald Trump, allegedly about the catch and kill scheme, what was your first thought?

JEREMY SALAND, FORMER MANHATTAN PROSECUTOR: My first thought is, Donald Trump's team, Blanche, is not happy with that request. Why is that? Well, it's because we know we need corroboration of Michael Cohen. And where is that key corroboration? David Pecker. I think that's safe to say.

Certainly, there's the notes from Weisselberg, which are valuable, but these words from the mouth of David Pecker, it starts from 2015, it gets that narrative going that this is an effort to impact the election and that conspiracy as the prosecution is alleging, though they'd have to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt, to promote the election. And it starts there.

And then you get the words from Trump himself, and I think it was in reference to McDougal, where there's a question about, did you have to buy the story or not? And he says, I don't buy stories and substance. You talked to my guy Michael Cohen. So, it really connects all the dots and corroborates. And the strongest piece of evidence testimonial is David Pecker.

BERMAN: Deputizing some people say officially in this testimony, Michael Cohen.

SALAND: (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: Empowering Michael Cohen.

Jim, how do you see that?

[09:05:00]

JAMES SCHULTZ, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: So, you don't know what they're looking at, right? I agree that, you know, the defense is probably raising an eyebrow of that, but you don't know what they're looking at. And perhaps they want to look at it to see if it does actually corroborate it, right? They could be thoughtful through this process. Maybe they're not buying what the prosecution is saying on it. So, I think it could cut either way. But I think as time - the more time that goes on, I think that's - I think Trump's defense team is right. The more time that goes on and his surrogates are saying that, the better for him.

BERMAN: Time means they are still deliberating, which increases the chances of a disagreement, which increases the chances of a hung jury.

Jim, let's talk about the jury instructions. Now, we don't know if they want to hear all the jury instructions read back, 55 pages, or just parts of it. Which parts - and I'll ask you for the defense - which parts would the defense most like to see read back to the jury?

SCHULTZ: Look, I am interested to see, on the instruction on the underlying crime, and whether there's confusion relating to that. That's something that's been an issue in this trial from day one. I think it creates some appealable issues down the road, some significant appellate issues down the road.

And just because there was this hiding of the ball of what the underlying crime was, and then it comes out that it's a campaign finance, perhaps tax, but it's still unclear. And if they're unclear on that, I think that sends an interesting signal as to how they're feeling about this case and the confusion associated with these layers that the prosecution has created in part - as part of their case.

BERMAN: And I should note, we are seeing Donald Trump's motorcade arriving at the Manhattan criminal court. It's very possible we here from Donald Trump before he walks in. He has not been happy, obviously. Not at all over the last day. Seemed, in a way, a bit frustrated and dejected when the jury started deliberating.

Jeremy, to what Jim was saying there, I'm actually - I'm not surprised, but I think there were some conventional wisdom than if the jury's asking for instructions about the law surrounding the counts itself, that might be something that prosecution likes more. But if they're asking for the instructions on reasonable doubt, that's something that defense always likes.

SALAND: Well, it's funny you say that. First of all, my response, I think his assessment is fairly reasonable, Jim - what Jim says, in terms of a potential appellate issue.

I don't think, first of all - and let me take that back. The prosecution did not hide the ball. The defense team and Donald Trump knew walking into that courtroom, and throughout that trial, what those underlying other sort of - and elevating offenses were to make this a felony. So, it wasn't really hiding the ball. The public may not have known, and wasn't a Jack - you know, Jack Smith - a speaking indictment to tell it, but it was there.

You know, I was going to reference reasonable doubt. The question for that is a great one. Who does that hurt more? Who does that make - does it mean that there's two or three people on the jury who say, oh, is it reasonable doubt or does it mean that there's nine of them trying to be conveyed?

But I'll say this too, we can sit here and all pontificate and try to read these tea leaves. None of us know nothing until that jury gives it to the foreperson and the judge reads the verdict.

BERMAN: You know, two things can be true. One, you can never know for sure what a jury is thinking. However, we do see the notes and we do see what they're asking for.

SALAND: Oh, sure. Sure.

BERMAN: So, I do think it is reasonable to wonder why they are as it were.

SALAND: Absolutely. And any trial attorney absolutely wonders. The prosecution, the defense, no matter what hat you wear, you're wondering.

BERMAN: And again, Jim, as they go into court very shortly, Donald Trump no doubt sitting there and waiting, what are the possibilities that I think we didn't discuss that much leading up to is the possibility of a mixed verdict. There are 34 counts here. And the counter argument to the idea that this could take a long - being a long time good for Trump, on a mixed verdict, they have to discuss which ones they would find him guilty of and then which ones either they would be hung or acquit him on. You could see that taking a long time.

SCHULTZ: Yes, but I think it's less likely that you have some of the counts, because they're all the - they all relate to business records, right? So, I think it's less likely that you see some of those counts, you know, a guilty or - and then others that he's guilty on. I think it's more likely that it's going to be all or none or the potential for a hung jury. I just don't see that mixed verdict - I - you know, on each particular instance. I think it's going to be - I think it's going to be all or none or a miss trial by way of hung jury.

BERMAN: No, there are some people who suggest that checks, the signing of the checks as opposed to an invoice, checks is something there was a lot of testimony that Donald Trump spent a lot of time thinking about wasn't going to see $1 or a cent going out without his thoughtful approval there. But we'll see.

And the first thing we, again, we will learn is if the jury wants all the instructions or just parts, and which parts, and then we'll be able to talk about that.

Jeremy Saland, Jim Schultz, great to see both of you. Thank you very much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: President Biden launching a new strategy to win over black voters as his campaign is scrambling to bolster enthusiasm among this key part of the coalition that put him in the White House in 2020 in the first place.

[09:09:59]

Democratic senator from the battleground state of Georgia, Senator Raphael Warnock, joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Summer is upon us. And with that a new push by the Biden campaign to win back a key part of the coalition that helped him win the White House in 2020. They are turning up the heat on how aggressively Biden takes on Donald Trump and also turning up their appeal to win black voters. Just listen to this line of attack against Donald Trump when Biden was in Philadelphia yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Think about this.

[09:15:01]

What do you think would have happened if black Americans had stormed the Capitol? I don't think he'd be talking about pardons. This is the same guy who wanted to tear gas you as you peacefully protested George Floyd's murder. The same guy who still calls the Central Park Five guilty, even though they're exonerated. He's that landlord who denies housing application because of the color of your skin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now is a top Biden ally in the state of Georgia, another battleground state, Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock.

Senator, thank you for coming in.

So, the Biden campaign has and is acknowledging they have work to do with black voters. Why are they struggling?

SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): Well, listen, as someone who preaches every Sunday, I can remind you that there's a reason why we show up every Sunday, and that is that people need to be reminded. And so I don't think that what the president and the campaign is doing is any different than what the preacher does every Sunday, reminding us of the good news.

And the great thing for us is that we've got a lot of good news to share. We're talking about record low unemployment among African Americans. Black wealth has gone up 60 percent since before the pandemic. As a proud graduate of a historically black college, Morehouse College, I'm proud that the president has invested some $16 billion in historically black colleges and universities, all the while canceling student debt, which narrows the racial wealth gap.

We've got good news to tell, and we'll be telling it between now and November.

BOLDUAN: Here's the thing. The people are feeling pain. People are feeling their personal economy, for one example. People still feel that they are hurting. And that is what we see in Donald Trump's way and rhetoric. That is what he is leaning into.

Some of the analysis I've been seeing in how black voters are feeling, Senator, is 49 percent of black voters across six of the top battleground states have said that they would back - would back Joe Biden. Four years ago it was nearly nine in ten voters nationwide casts their ballots for Joe Biden.

And Harry Enten here at CNN had an analysis that has stuck with me. It says that Trump has doubled support among black voters from this point four years ago, in part because he's pulling in a quarter of black voters under the age of 50.

If something isn't going wrong in terms of the Biden appeal, something isn't going completely right. Can you pinpoint what it is?

WARNOCK: Well, as somebody who has been on the ballot and won five times in less than three years, I can tell you that if you stay on the roller coaster, you're going to get dizzy. We're going to see those polls go up and down between now and November. But at the end of the day, black people are smart. And they pay attention, like all of our voters. The American people get it.

And look, we are seeing global inflation, but the United States economy is doing well by any standard compared to others. Now, there's pain out there. The question is, what is Donald Trump going to do about it? What is he even promised to do about it? All I'm seeing is a campaign of retribution, revenge and anger. And I don't know what that's doing for people who are sitting around their tables right now.

Here's what we've been doing. We've capped the cost of insulin to $35 of out-of-pocket cost for seniors and we're trying to do that right now for everybody because insulin shouldn't be expensive. We know that in a state like Georgia where about 11 percent of the adult population has diabetes. This is real help to people's pocketbooks.

And when the Biden administration set out to cancel student debt, which helps kids - you know, I relate to this because I was the first college graduate in my family. I couldn't have been - I wouldn't have been able to afford college without Pell grants and low-interest student loans. What did they do? They took us to court. And Donald Trump bragged that it was his Trump-appointed Supreme Court nominees who blocked the initial effort to cancel student debt. And with one hand behind his back, Joe Biden found a way with people like me pushing him to cancel student debt. So far we have done $160 billion of student debt relief. And those numbers continue to climb. We've helped about 4 million borrowers and the plan is that between now and the end of the year that number will rise up to about 30 million borrowers. That - that's real help in the pocket books of ordinary Americans. And I think we need an American president who's thinking about our problems, not his own.

I think Donald Trump is pretty tied up right now in a Manhattan courtroom.

BOLDUAN: Let me - let me ask you about the Supreme Court, Senator, because Justice Samuel Alito, he just sent a letter back to Congress in response in part to some Democratic senators yesterday, rejecting calls to recuse himself from cases related to the 2020 election and January 6th.

[09:20:14]

These calls come after reports that an upside down flag flew at his home in the weeks after the attack on the Capitol.

When he wrote to - well, it was really to all of you. What he wrote is that he says that the facts don't meet the grounds for recusal. And he puts it on his wife. He says, "my wife is fond of flying flags. I am not. My wife was solely responsible for having the flagpoles." And he also writes this, that he is "confident that a reasonable person who is not motivated by political or ideological considerations or a desire to affect the outcome of the Supreme Court cases would conclude that the flag flying" at his homes, "do not require recusal."

Does that settle it for you?

WARNOCK: It's a sad thing when a sitting United States Supreme Court justice is blaming his wife for what's happening with respect to a flag associated with January 6th in front of his house. And I think this reminds us all that elections have consequences.

And I know that there is - there's pain in our country. I think three years of a pandemic, 20 years of a war - of wars, all of this piles on the consciousness. But the question is, who's going to be thinking about ordinary people? And we don't know when one of these court seats will be up again.

But the Supreme Court, right now, is in a crisis of credibility. And Donald Trump has taken credit for unwinding Roe versus Wade. We ought to give him credit for that. He's taken credit for undermining student debt relief. We ought to give him credit for that. And we ought to ask ourselves, who do we want appointing the next Supreme Court justice? I think women all across America, by the way on both sides of the aisle, know the answer to that question.

And, meanwhile, those of us who were in the Congress I think have got to be very focused on how we hold the court accountable in a country where we have three branches of government co-equal. This is very serious because this idea that no one is above the law, equal protection under the law, the credibility the court goes right to the health of our democratic system. This is a moral moment in America between January 5th, when a kid who grew up in public housing, first college graduate in my family and a son of Jewish immigrants got elected to the Senate. And January 6th, where we saw this insurrection on the Capitol. And to have a Supreme Court justice be compromised in that question is - is deeply consequential and it points to the importance of this election.

BOLDUAN: There is a big question of just what, if anything, and it kind of leads towards not much the Congress, the Senate can do about the decision when it comes to the Supreme Court. But that's a - that's - that's a longer discussion that has been continuing for quite some time.

Senator Warnock, thank you for coming in.

Moments from now, the 12 jurors in Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial will resume deliberations. Will they reach a verdict today? CNN's special live coverage starts next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:28:02]

BERMAN: So, we are standing by at the Manhattan criminal court. You're looking at live pictures. Any moment now the jury will hear key testimony read back to them. We just saw Donald Trump. He is now inside the courtroom.

Joining us now outside court, CNN anchor Kaitlan Collins, chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid, and national correspondent Kristen Homes.

It is a big morning and we're about to learn some pretty interesting stuff.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it is indeed. And, of course, Trump has just entered the room with his attorney, Todd Blanche, in tow. What we are preparing for is the - for the court reporters who were in the room to read to the jury these pieces of this testimony from the jury notes yesterday that they sent to the judge. I should note Trump is speaking with his son, Eric Trump, who is at the defense table with him. We've seen a slew of family members coming in to sit behind the former president as he's been at the defense table over the last several days.

And, Paula, it's not quite clear if they're going to start with the jury instructions or the testimony because our understanding right now is that they want the entire jury instructions that they had yesterday, which took about an hour or so to read, read back to them from Judge Merchan.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And the judge seemed maybe a little surprised, perhaps a little annoyed by that, because he had just read them a few hours earlier. And, like you said, it took an hour. And he even questioned it in open court. OK, do they want to hear the whole thing, or do they just want to hear a few pages? So, it's not clear how much they're going to hear, but that suggests, the fact that they made this request, suggests that when they got into the jury room, there must have been some discrepancy about how different jurors heard these instructions, which is why they have to be read back.

And I think a lot of people have asked, well, why don't they just get a copy, right? This is their - the rules of the game. But that's the way it works here in New York.

COLLINS: And the testimony pieces that they are going to have re-read to them, not from the judge himself but from the court reporter, I mean, they had to break yesterday because it was getting close to the day - they were ending at 4:30.

But these are interesting pieces of testimony because it's related to David Pecker and Michael Cohen. Obviously, David Pecker, one of the first witnesses, Michael Cohen, the last witness for the prosecution.

[09:30:03]

And so to listen to, you know, what they are - are interested in. Obviously, we're just reading tea leaves, but it could shed some light.