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Now: Jury Deliberating In Trump Criminal Hush Money Trial; Report Reveals Disturbing Mississippi "Goon Squad" Private Messages; Billionaire Building Submersible To Visit Site Of "Titanic" Shipwreck. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired May 30, 2024 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:31:40]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Jurors are now deep into day two of deliberations in the Trump hush money trial. Earlier, they asked to re-hear parts of the jury instructions, starting with a metaphor about rain that was used by Judge Juan Merchan.

Judge -- rather, John E. Jones, a former federal judge and a former chief judge for the U.S. Middle District Court of Pennsylvania is with us. He's also the president of Dickinson College.

Judge, thanks so much for being with us.

So let's talk about --

JOHN E. JONES III, FORMER FEDERAL JUDGE: Great to be with you, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Thank you. Of course.

Let's talk about this rain metaphor. It can really be boiled down to using common sense and inferring that, just because you don't see rain doesn't mean it didn't rain because you can use context clues to determine that there was rain.

What do you think jurors should gather from this metaphor?

JONES: Well, let me tell you where I think it's going, Boris. And this is a sort of semi-educated guess based on the questions. I think Paula Reid said this very accurately a short while ago.

They're looking at that first meeting that took place, quite obviously, in 2015, the one where Pecker testified that he said I'll be your eyes and ears for the campaign.

And they're trying to figure out, did Donald Trump at that time launch or set in motion, using the words that Paula used, and they're quite accurate, this -- this scheme.

Because the two competing narratives basically are, from the defense's standpoint, nothing to see here. We pay people off. You know, hush money is the coin of the realm, that's what we do, or was this a scheme that started in aid of the campaign?

Now, we know that the former president doesn't leave a paper trail, right? So they need to have inferences. And that's why they're zeroing in on that particular instruction.

Can we infer from other facts that are shown that, in this case, that the former president had a hand in that scheme as it went forward? That's the decision that they're trying to make.

I think they factored out a lot of the things that, frankly, counsel spent quite a bit of time on. For example, I don't think they're toiling over Stormy Daniels, nor are they toiling over perhaps the fact that these are -- these we're not legal fees or were legal fees. I think they've figured that out.

They're looking to see how culpable is the former president? And can they have a through line that gets this to the point where they start to make those -- those check payments.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Judge, as I'm watching the time go by, we're roughly about 20 minutes away from deliberation going for 10 hours.

Do you read anything into how long the jury deliberates? Because our reporting indicates that the Trump team is confident that the longer deliberation goes on, the better the outcome is going to be for Trump.

JONES: I think that's kind of nonsense. You can't infer at this juncture, given the complexity of the case and the duration of the case, what 10 hours means. That's -- that's just a foolish exercise to try to go through.

I don't blame him for saying that. Maybe they want to keep the troops happy and the former president happy. I don't -- I don't think it indicates anything other than this is a hardworking jury and they're -- they're focused on the task at hand.

[14:35:08]

So you know, I think if we get to the end of the day tomorrow, Boris, and they haven't reached a verdict, then, you know, the balance could shift. And it may be that you're arching towards something like a hung jury. But I don't think that there's anything to that at this point.

They're just trying to sift through the evidence and do it in a deliberative fashion.

SANCHEZ: Sure. So moments ago, Judge, we spoke to a former Trump attorney, Tim Parlatore, and he relayed the idea that it's time for the defense to re-examine the gag order and to push for the gag order to be lifted, something that Donald Trump is wanted now for just about as long as it's been imposed on him.

The argument is essentially that the jury has been selected, so there's no, really, tainting the jury pool. And the witnesses have already testified. So there's no witness intimidation.

Would you agree? Would you think that Judge Merchan might be open to reexamining the gag order?

JONES: Boris, I'm going to call it like the former judge that I am. Tim is a great attorney. I respect him very much. I heard him say that.

You know, if -- if they asked Judge Merchan to reconvene court while the jury was deliberating, saying, by the way, we want you to lift the gag order, he would look at them and say, are you kidding me? While the jury is deliberating, there's no way I'm going to touch that.

I mean, that's just nothing that he wants to touch at this point. They'd get their heads handed to him by Merchan if they attempted to do that. I just --you know, I don't -- I think they'll let that alone.

SANCHEZ: Judge John E. Jones III, thank you so much for being with us, sir.

JONES: Always a pleasure, Boris. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Coming up, reports reveal disturbing messages between members of Mississippi's notorious Goon Squad and officers who are still serving the community. What the sheriff says he's doing about it, when we come back.

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[14:41:38]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Members of the so-called Mississippi Goon Squad reportedly used a private text thread to discuss terrorizing residents, to exchange disturbing crime scene photos, and to chat about shooting people.

SANCHEZ: This is according to a new report from "The New York Times" and "The Mississippi Times."

The Goon Squad made national headlines when some of its officers we're sentenced earlier this year for torturing two black men. But this purported texts thread, which went on for years, also included law enforcement officers who are still on the force.

CNN's Ryan Young joins us now with the latest. He's been all over the story since it broke.

Ryan, what more are you learning?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's still lots of questions about these guys in terms of what's going on inside that department.

Now for the department's sake, the sheriff's basically saying, because this was on WhatsApp, his department had no oversight on these text messages. But as you look at this report and see what some of the things that

have been alleged here, the officers we're trading pictures of dead bodies.

They were discussing the interactions with people, even asking, hey, did you tase the person in the face. One of the streams even talks about tasing someone in the anus.

And then it goes on from there, even talking about taking pictures of someone they arrested and see if they could get naked pictures of a woman.

But beyond that, we know that in 2019, the year came -- the department came under scrutiny after the Goon Squad was involved in several shootings.

And at some point, one of the members even said, can we get points? How many points can we get for shootout? And someone responded, depends if they die or not.

So what you see here is whether or not this is a corrosive effort inside that sheriff's department or was this just the Goon Squad going back and forth.

Now there are some members who are still a part of the sheriff's department. The sheriff's department has asked "The New York Times" for part of this text stream because they want to get down to the bottom of what actually was being communicated here.

But you understand, after the two men who we're beaten and tortured for several hours, you can understand why the community doesn't always believe what's coming out of the sheriff's department.

Now, we do have some statements that we're made. Updike's attorney for one of the deputies who was arrested, actually released the statement:

"The explanation by some that they we're just joking about torturing people and what they thought was a secret text stream, rings hollow given the multiple incidents of torture that have been documented.

And then the next statement comes from Malik Shabazz. He's the lead attorney for Jenkins and Parker, the two men who were tortured.

"Here's the latest revelations regarding the Rankin County, Mississippi, Goon Squad. Text messages are not surprising at all."

Guys, this is also on top of an effort by many people, including the NAACP, to have the sheriff removed.

The sheriff's department for its part says, look, they've done all they could to clean up what's going on inside that department, especially after all this came to light. But at the same time, they said they were unaware of these text messages.

Now to put this in perspective, we do know the night of this torture incident, that it was coordinated on WhatsApp. They actually came up with the time, they went to that house, they torture the men, they tried to sexually assault them.

Even after this was all said and done, they urinated in the corner of the closet. So all this goes along with the behavior that we've been talking about for over a year.

The federal government is still talking to community members to try to discover everything that has gone on in Rankin County over the last few years.

The story doesn't stop. People in the community want to know how far this goes. And how many of the officers that are still on the force, are still involved -- guys?

[14:45:01]

KEILAR: Yes. And if they didn't know about these text messages, how serious have they really been about looking inward and reforming the department?

Ryan Young, thank you so much. You've covered this all along the way, and we appreciate it.

Now to some of the other headlines that we're watching this hour.

Catherine, the princess of Wales, is going to miss a military ceremony that she normally attends as she's undergoing cancer treatment. Still not clear if she will attend the annual Trooping the Colours Ceremony next month.

But Buckingham Palace says King Charles will attend in a carriage instead of on horseback as he receives treatment for cancer as well.

Also, volcanic activity has calmed down in Iceland after a fifth eruption in as many days. The mayor of a town near the volcano says things look better than when the eruption first began. Power though, is cut off to the area, but hot and cold water is running.

SANCHEZ: And officials are asking everyone in Michigan City, Indiana, to look out for this kitty, a baby bobcat named Grace. She escaped from the zoo yesterday.

At 9 months old, she's only about the size of a house cat so her only prey would likely be chipmunks and rabbits, fortunately, not humans.

The zoo asks anyone who encounters Grace to call police immediately, but do not try, as cute as she looks, to try and capture her.

So one year after the Titan submarine implosion, a billionaire from Ohio says he's planning to take his own submersible underwater to see the "Titanic."

KEILAR: Yes, we're going to talk to him, next. Stay tuned.

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[14:50:53] KEILAR: An Ohio billionaire is trying something that ended in a deadly tragedy the last time it was attempted. Larry Connor is hoping to build a submersible called "The Explorer" and take it 12,000 feet underwater to the site of the "Titanic" shipwreck.

SANCHEZ: You'll remember last year's attempt by OceanGate expeditions. Its submersible, named the "Titan," imploded last June, killing all five people on board.

KEILAR: Now Connor is hoping that his vessel will be ready by the summer of 2026. He describes this as not just tourism, but as a research mission.

And Larry is with this now to talk about it.

I mean, Larry, let's start with the obvious here. A lot of people hearing what you're doing are going to say, you know, it was -- it feels like it was just yesterday that someone tried this and it ended in disaster.

What makes your plan different?

LARRY CONNOR, BUILDING SUBMERSIBLE TO VISIT TITANIC: Yes. Thanks for having me.

And, yes, understandable. So research, an exploration. An important fact, if you think about it, 71 percent of the earth is in water. So we think it's an important and worthwhile endeavor to explore that. And, yes, we believe that we can do this very safely.

SANCHEZ: Larry, I'm wondering what this research mission is hoping to find. Because a lot of folks have been down to this site before. So what's different about your journey?

CONNOR: So it's not only at the "Titanic," but -- and we're in the early stages of developing that. But there's hyperthermophile events and sea mounts, both of which are of value to explore that are both at the site of the "Titanic" in that area.

KEILAR: Larry, tell us about the submersible. What's it -- what's it made out of?

CONNOR: So it's a great question. And I think here's an important fact for your viewers. If you think about submersibles and the submersible industry, over the last 50 years, if you have a submersible that has been DNV certified, that's an organization in the Netherlands -- in the last 50 years, there's never been an accident.

And keep in mind that's thousands of dives with lots of submersibles. Unfortunately, with the tragedy with OceanGate, there's was not certified and, in our opinion, never would have been certified because of the materials, the design, the technology and the equipment.

SANCHEZ: What would you say to those who feel like the site of the "Titanic" is a grave site, the final resting place of its victims? And also the five people that we're killed in the OceanGate disaster? There are folks that believe this is a site that shouldn't be disturbed. What's your response to them?

CONNOR: Yes, I hear that. And that's why the purpose of our mission is not just to go to the "Titanic" for one dive. Our purpose is to do multiple research dives.

And the sub that we're building -- and by the way, that's a joint venture between myself and the leading submarine builder, you know, in the world, Triton Submarines, which is headquartered right here in the United States, been around for 18 years.

Is to do multiple research dives with an acrylic hull that will provide 320 degrees of viewing. By the way, typically, if you're going to go really, really deep -- and I've done that multiple times -- you're looking through a portal that's about five inches in circumference.

So what we're going to be able to see and what we're going to be able to film at those depths is unprecedented.

[14:55:05]

KEILAR: And you, of course, you've had other adventures. We see that there's a framed picture behind you, a note from someone saying, "Come back to earth, Pops." We should mention and explain what that is. You visited the International Space Station. You've actually gone diving into the Mariana Trench.

Where -- where would this rank to you with those achievements? And obviously we can't separate it from the tragedy of about a year ago. How would this factor into those other things?

CONNOR: Yes. So fair question, Brianna. But I don't really look at it that way. I don't try to compare to the other.

Yes. I was fortunate to do three research dives in the Mariana Trench, 36,000 feet, 35,000, 25,000. By the way, supported by a team of seven scientists.

I also had the good fortune to spend 17 days at the International Space Station. Extraordinary experience. By the way, in the background of that was 10 months of intensive training. We were private astronauts.

So I think you have to look at each of them. But we will not do any of these endeavors if they're not worthwhile and if we can't do them safely and successfully.

KEILAR: All right, Larry, well, we'll see how this all shakes out. Good luck, of course, on this endeavor.

Larry Connor, thanks for your time.

CONNOR: Thanks for having me. KEILAR: The jury in the Donald Trump hush money trial has been deliberating now for just over 10 hours after a busy morning of re- hearing testimony and also re-hearing dozens of pages of instructions from the judge.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Trump's fate is now in the jury's hands. More of our coverage after a quick break.

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