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Fed's Go-To Inflation Gauge Showed Little Progress In April; Trump's Media Allies Call For Revenge After His Conviction; Comedian & Host Bill Maher Makes Prediction About 2024 Election; Threats And Attempts To Dox Trump Jurors Proliferate Online; "Secrets & Spies: A Nuclear Game" Premieres Sunday At 10PM ET/PT. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired May 31, 2024 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:31:40]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: While former President Trump wrestles with the fallout from his felony conviction, inflation is a persistent issue for President Biden. And the latest report is going to be a concern for both his reelection campaign and also for the Federal Reserve.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: For more on this, let's go to CNN business reporter, Matt Egan.

Matt, walk us through the numbers.

MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Well, Boris and Brianna, inflation still seems to be sort of stuck, not as bad as that nightmare from two years ago, but not back to normal yet either.

Now, today's report is the PCE inflation data. And there was a lot of different indicators out there. We follow this one closely because it's the one that the Fed uses to determine whether to lower or increase interest rates.

And it found that, month over month, prices were up by 0.3 percent. No improvement there. The big number is year over year, 2.7 percent. Again, no improvement from the month before.

And when you look at the trend, which is really important, you can see that two things really stand out, right? One, inflation has gotten a lot better than the middle of that chart. That was 2022.

The other thing, though, that stands out is that this progress of late has really stalled out. And 2.7 percent inflation, where we are now, that is well above the 2 percent that the Fed is targeting.

Now the good news from this report is that, when you zoom in, core inflation, which excludes food and energy, that did improve on a monthly basis ever so slightly. But we need to see more of that improvement.

Because look, we know Americans are fed up with the cost of living. The fact that life just costs so much more than it did two and three and four years ago.

And look, the Federal Reserve is trying really hard to coax inflation back down, right? They've lifted interest rates. We've got 7 percent mortgage rates. Credit card rates are near record highs.

But sort of like a stubborn toddler -- and I'm not going to name any names, you know who you are -- but sort of like a stubborn toddler --

(LAUGHTER)

EGAN: -- who does don't want to go to bed on time, right, inflation just is not cooperating, not yet.

KEILAR: Really, a child of any age. I'm not naming names either.

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: Matt Egan, thank you for that report.

EGAN: Thanks.

[14:33:40]

KEILAR: And ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, 12 men and women found former President Trump guilty. What comes next for them after taking part in one of the biggest verdicts in American history? We'll have that after a quick break.

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[14:38:28]

KEILAR: In the moments following former President Donald Trump's conviction, conservative media figures took to the air to rip the verdict, slam the trial, and take aim at the judicial system.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSE WATTERS, FOX HOST, "JESSE WATTERS PRIMETIME": Then we're going to vanquish the evil forces that are destroying this republic.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX HOST, "HANNITY": It's a sad day for our justice system. The best justice system ever created by man, the foundation of our constitutional republic, it's literally dying before your eyes.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX HOST, "THE INGRAHAM ANGLE": So are we going to establish a precedent where the president can put his political opponent in jail? It's the type of power we usually see dictators exercise in China and Cuba and North Korea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So some of the right's most popular names openly calling for the government to become Trump's weapon of choice for revenge against his political enemies.

SANCHEZ: Here's some of what we've seen from folks online.

"The Daily Wire's" Matt Walsh, who has millions of social media subscribers, said, Trump should, quote, "make and publish a list of 10 high-ranking Democrat criminals who he will have arrested when he takes office," end quote.

Sean Davis, the head of "The Federalist," wrote, he wants to see a list, quote, "of which Democratic officials are going to be put in prison," end quote.

Joining us now to talk more about this as CNN's Chris Wallace. He's host of "WHO'S TALKING TO CHRIS WALLACE?" on Max and "THE CHRIS WALLACE SHOW" airing Saturday mornings here on CNN.

Does any of that rhetoric surprise you?

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN HOST: No. Unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me. Perhaps where it's been headed. But think how -- how different the situation is from eight years ago.

[14:40:01]

In 2016, Donald Trump's brilliant move was to put out a list of conservative judges who he would consider to name to the Supreme Court. Now, you've got right-wing commentators saying, put out a list of the top Democrats you're going to put in jail as soon as you get into office.

That's a sign of how much the Republican Party and MAGA world and the political conversation in this country has changed over the last eight years.

KEILAR: It seems like some of the rhetoric and some of the lines that we hear there, that just gets co-opted by some Republican officials who run with it. Even some who you might suspect don't always believe it in their hearts, but that's the political messaging that they go with.

You know, how damaging do you think it really is when they're taking aim at the judicial system. Especially, I think of like Tim Scott saying the judicial system hunts Republicans while it protects Democrats. But, you know, Bob Menendez and Hunter Biden might think otherwise.

WALLACE: Well, some of the people that you showed on that screen a moment ago, I don't think know better. There are people who do know better. And I think of somebody like Tim Scott and some of -- Marco Rubio knowing better.

But you got to fall in line. If you're going to have a place in this Republican Party, you've got to fall in line with the MAGA talking points and with Donald Trump's talking points.

I mean, you had a moderate governor of -- a former governor of Maryland, Larry Hogan, who's running for the Senate in Maryland, a really blue state. And the real possibility that he can turn a blue seat, red, and maybe give the Republicans control of the Senate, a pretty important thing.

All he said yesterday was, "We, in this country need to respect the -- the verdict of the jury." And one of the chairs of the Trump campaign said, "His campaign is finished."

The point is, if you don't fall in line, you are out.

SANCHEZ: What does this do more broadly to system that has served as a beacon of light for the world, right? A huge part of the judicial system in this country is based on the belief that it functions fairly.

And if you have these leaders essentially saying that it's corrupt, and a lot of people believing them without evidence, what does that do?

WALLACE: You know, Boris, if you'd asked me this four years ago, I would've said, well, it's rhetoric, it's overheated rhetoric, where the right knows how to throw red meat to its constituents and the left knows how to do the same.

But January 6, 2021, changed everything. We saw then, the rhetoric can actually turn into action. And action can turn into violence.

So when you hear people talking about going after top Democratic officials, when you hear them talking about not complying with the rule of law, I think it has a different meaning, a different resonance, and a different fear factor, if you will, than it did three years ago.

KEILAR: Do you think there -- pardon me. Do you think there are guardrails that would stop President Trump from, if he's reelected, weaponizing some parts of his administration against his political rivals or enemies?

WALLACE: You know, you do have the Supreme Court, and you do have Congress. Of course it depends who's in charge of Congress. But you do have to raise questions.

So when you look back to the investigation in the House, the January 6th Committee did, there were a few key moments there where the acting attorney general said, no, were not going to do that, or the White House Counsel said, no, were not going to do that.

And one of the concerns, I think, is that is that Donald Trump 2.0 isn't going to go, as he did in the beginning of his first term, for the respectable, the Rex Tillersons, the Jim Mattises, the H.R. McMasters.

He's going to pick people -- because he knows how the system works now, he's going to pick people who will tow his line and follow his orders.

And under those circumstances, I think the question of guardrails becomes much more in doubt. SANCHEZ: And to your point about how much things have changed in a

relatively short amount of time, somebody that didn't toe the line, Mike Pence, who certified the results of the 2020 election, today came out and basically said that this was a corrupt proceeding.

The conversation has been somber, so we're going to pivot slightly.

Who's talking to Chris Wallace this week?

WALLACE: Well, it's interesting, but it's right on these lines. We talked to Bill Maher, the very popular host of "Real Time" on HBO and Max.

And one of the questions I wanted to ask him about was the fact that, even before Trump ran the first time in 2016, he said, "If he is elected, he won't leave voluntarily in 2020. He won't admit that he lost."

And here's that conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Starting in 2018, you started predicting with some regularity that if Donald Trump lost his bid for reelection in 2020 that he wouldn't leave.

[14:45:04]

BILL MAHER, HOST, "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER": I said it before he was elected the first time. I kept saying slow-moving coup, which is happening, and it's going to happen, and it's -- and we see it.

I mean, the stages of it would just keep going down this road. And I noticed that the right wing now has sort of talked themselves into this idea that he's just this buffoonish comedian. He says crazy things. You know, he's always said crazy things.

He -- it's like he's not a serious person, so they don't take it seriously. And that's the problem we have, is that this is very serious. And he's running a much more serious campaign this time.

WALLACE: So what do you think happens if he loses this time?

MAHER: Well, on January 20, 2025, he's going to show up on Inauguration Day, whether he wins or loses because he will claim that he won.

That is the one thing I can absolutely predict with utter certainty. He will never, as I kept saying all those years, will never concede an election. He's certainly not going to concede this one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Interestingly enough, Bill Maher, who has no fan of Donald Trump's, said that he thinks -- now this is prior to the verdict yesterday. He thinks Trump at this moment is odds-on to be re-elected president.

And you can watch the interview, the full interview -- not right now because we're watching you.

(LAUGHTER)

WALLACE: But as soon as this --

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: -- show is over, you can watch it on Max where it's posted right now.

KEILAR: All right. Well check that out, Chris.

Always great to have you, Chris Wallace. Thank you so much for being with us.

WALLACE: My pleasure.

SANCHEZ: Still plenty more news to come on. CNN NEWS CENTRAL. The vitriol isn't just reserved for politicians. We're also seeing growing anger toward jurors.

CNN is learning that right now, on certain online forums, people are threatening violence and are attempting to publicly identify the 12 New Yorkers who convicted the former president.

KEILAR: Let's bring in trial consultant, Richard Gabriel.

Richard, you know, when jurors walked in to deliver their verdict yesterday, we're told that some of their heads hung, maybe feeling the weight of their decision.

What do you think they're experiencing today?

RICHARD GABRIEL, TRIAL CONSULTANT: Well, I think they're experiencing some relief that they're out of the trial. But I do think that there is some trepidation. Obviously, they knew, going into this trial, that there's some risk about this.

And I really just want to remind the public, you can disagree with the verdict but the jurors are 12 ordinary citizens who really swore to do their job, look at the evidence, follow the judge's instructions, and do it.

So I think this heated rhetoric about vial, threatened violence towards the jurors or towards the judiciary really does threaten the entire institution of justice.

And I think we need to really dial down the heated rhetoric about this. Again, plenty of room for disagreement about this. But I think it's important to honor what the process was that did arrive at this verdict.

SANCHEZ: Richard, after handing down a verdict that could potentially send a former president or the presumptive Republican nominee to jail, do you anticipate that members of the jury might speak about this case publicly?

GABRIEL: It's possible that they may feel compelled to do so at some point to explain their process and their verdict.

That being said, I think a lot of them are very concerned about their own personal safety, about the harassment of friends and family. And will just basically want to disappear.

The judge has kept them anonymous. And even though there are threats, maybe to reveal the identities, I think a lot of them just want to say, look, I did my job. I don't want to be in a public forum any more about this. And I've done my service.

SANCHEZ: Richard Gabriel, thanks so much for spending time with us this afternoon.

GABRIEL: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Much more of our coverage of Donald Trump's conviction in just moments.

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[14:52:56]

KEILAR: Espionage has always played a vital role in Russia's relations with the West, from the Cold War to Russia's recent invasion of Ukraine.

SANCHEZ: Now the FBI and CIA are collecting valuable intel from Russian insiders who are furious over the ongoing bloodshed.

CNN's Josh Campbell has a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(SHOUTING)

(GUNFIRE)

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amid Russia's brutal ongoing invasion of Ukraine, a rare opening for U.S. intelligence to recruit Russian insiders furious at the handling of the war.

WILLIAM BURNS, CIA DIRECTOR: Disaffection creates a once-in-a- generation opportunity for us at CIA. We're very much open for business.

DAVID MCCLOSKEY, FORMER CIA OFFICER: That business is the exchange of information that the asset or agent would provide for something that they want.

We want people who have some sense of what those leaders' priorities are, what they're trying to accomplish. CAMPBELL: The recruitment effort is far from a state secret. America's

spy handlers have publicly taken to social media, releasing videos appealing to the patriotism of disaffected Russians.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is absolutely a brilliant ploy by the CIA.

CAMPBELL: But while of the technology is new, spying has underpinned and undermined U.S.-Russian relations for decades.

That secret battle between intelligence services now the focus of a new CNN-BBC documentary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I spent 10 years as an illegal undercover agent for the KGB in the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the unseen story of the Cold War fought not by politician but by secret agents.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was complete misunderstanding on either side.

CAMPBELL: With interviews and never-before-heard audio from spies and the traitors who sealed their fate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aldrich Ames put some of those names to death by sharing them with his KGB case officer.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Not only was the CIA and its intelligence sources in the Soviet Union completely compromised, he also was in a compromised position.

CAMPBELL: For each side, espionage was used to gain strategic advantage. The ultimate cost of discovery, the highest form of punishment.

[14:55:02]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you do to officers who betray their own motherland? You execute them.

CAMPBELL: In the new modern-day shadow war, espionage remains a vital tool.

MCCLOSKEY: The backbone of our understanding about Putin, the people around him, the basis for all of that will be sources inside Russia.

CAMPBELL: And the lessons of the Cold War could very well determine future global stability.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to know your enemy. If you don't, you can scare your enemy into doing something that neither of you want to see happen.

CAMPBELL: Josh Campbell, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE) KEILAR: Tune into the all-new CNN original series "SECRETS AND SPIES, A NUCLEAR GAME." That will premiere Sunday night at 10:00.

And ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, with former President Trump now running for president as a convicted felon, we're going to look at the political and legal fallout from this historic verdict.

Stay with us.

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