Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Hunter Biden's Ex-Wife, Former Girlfriend Testify At Gun Trial; WSJ Reporter: We Aimed To Show What Biden Was Like Behind Doors; Senior Biden Officials Head To MidEast To Work On Ceasefire Deal. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired June 05, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:08]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Hunter Biden's federal gun trial getting even more personal his ex-wife and a former girlfriend taking the stand detailing drug use and more. We are live outside the courthouse.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, new fallout from that Wall Street Journal report claiming President Biden is slipping. The White House and Democrats pushing back hard.

And Boeing Starliner successfully lifting off now headed to the International Space Station.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

Some dramatic testimony in court today as former romantic partners of Hunter Biden take the stand in his federal gun trial. Hunter's former girlfriend, Zoe Kestan, just finished testifying about Hunter's heavy drug use including she says just weeks before he bought the gun that's at the center of this case. She also described Hunter's efforts to get sober including how we moved to California to work on his recovery, but then ultimately relapsed.

KEILAR: And this morning Hunter Biden's ex-wife, Kathleen Buhle told jurors about finding drugs and paraphernalia in his car on multiple occasions including in 2018 when he bought the gun.

CNN's Paula Reid is outside the courthouse in Delaware in Wilmington.

Give us the latest here, Paula.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: The jury has been very attentive throughout most of the day as they heard testimony from two of Hunter's former romantic partners. First, of course, his ex- wife who you just mentioned. She only testified briefly about what she observed of his addiction back when they were still married. But she told the court that she didn't see him, she didn't really know what he was up to in 2018 at the time he purchased this firearm.

So she only spoke before the jury for a brief period of time and then a young woman who first met Hunter Biden at a gentleman's club and then spent large stretches of time with him at various hotels. She got on the stand and she testified for several hours.

And let me tell you, this jury they were sitting up straight, they were leaning in and they were listening to every detail. Because the reason she was on the stand, prosecutors were asking her about what she observed of Hunter Biden's addiction, how she first met him in late 2017 and testified about what she observed throughout a big part of 2018. And she said when they would be in these hotels, he would be smoking crack every 20 minutes. She detailed how she helped to facilitate drug buys. She would withdraw cash from him.

This was the testimony that prosecutors were seeking from her and she testified that she did see Hunter Biden smoking crack in September 2018. Now that is significant because it goes against the defense's narrative that at that point he was clean and just using wine. But on cross-examination by Abbe Lowell, she testified she didn't see him in October 2018.

After she saw him in mid-September, she didn't see him again until November, so she has no direct knowledge of whether he was using illegal drugs or if he was addicted to illegal drugs during the time in question at the center of this case. Now, her testimony just wrapped, but I'm telling you the jury they were very interested in the details of these luxury hotel stays, the fancy dinners they were enjoying and some pretty salacious photos other times together that were also shared with the jury.

SANCHEZ: So Paula who is the prosecution calling to the stand next?

REID: Now they're going to call the man who sold Hunter Biden this gun. That's not actually who we were expecting. We're actually expecting Hallie Biden to be the next witness. But instead this is another really key critical witness because the defense has tried to shift some of the blame on it to the salesman, arguing that he was kind of pushy, that he led Hunter Biden to the gun when he was actually trying to browse for other items.

So this is going to be a critical witness for the jurors to hear from. We're on a break right now, but that testimony should get underway any minute.

SANCHEZ: Paula Reid live outside the courthouse in Wilmington, Delaware. Thank you so much.

Let's discuss now with defense attorney and former federal prosecutor, Shan Wu.

Shan, thanks so much for being with us.

You've written that for prosecutors this case should be a slam dunk, but you express some doubt as to whether or not they're going to get a guilty verdict.

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right. I think the atmospherics of the case in the way they're approaching it is actually a little bit, perhaps, shooting themselves in the foot. So the defense now we know is very clever one is saying that this question of being an addict on the day that Hunter Biden checked that box says, no, I'm not using.

Defense is saying that's the question for the jury, because on that day he had come out of rehab relatively recently and they're going to say in his mind he was not an addict then. So to counter that, the prosecution is apparently kind of using a bludgeoning kind of effect, which is to try to overwhelm the jury with evidence that he was constantly using drugs so that he should have known because he has been knowingly made the false statement.

[15:05:08]

He should have known he was addicted to drugs.

That's a double-edged sword because first of all difficult always to prove what's in someone's mind particularly someone who's using a lot of drugs at times. And the way they're putting on the evidence with these romantic partners, even his wife, there's a lot of emotional tenor there that can make the jury very sympathetic to him, which may cause an acquittal or nullification even during the defense opening apparently one juror was pretty emotional about it, so it's tough situation they're creating.

KEILAR: You think there's a high chance of jury nullification ...

WU: Right.

KEILAR: ... here, right? Tell us what that is and how rare that is.

WU: So the technical definition for that is when the jury deliberately ignores the evidence or refuses to apply the law because they want to take a stand in the case, that's the theory. In practice no jury gets up and says we're refusing to follow the law here because of a moral stand. It happens behind the scenes, because of sympathetic atmospherics.

What happens then is they start looking for a good way out for themselves and this issue of knowingly may supply that to them, but sympathetic circumstances help a lot and actually having the first lady of the United States in the courtroom making sympathetic gestures towards his sister, the jury's going to notice that.

SANCHEZ: The defense is trying to also make it difficult to zero in on exactly where he was in his drug use when he bought the weapon. And in order to do that, they pointed to a specific portion of his audio book in which he talks about missing a flight on a specific day. But it turns out he actually caught that flight, the point is essentially if the defense is trying to say that there are details here that are not clear in his mind how effectively can the defense do that with someone like Hunter Biden when he's got this audio book out there when he talks about using drugs and then he's buying a weapon in the midst of that period?

WU: The way they have to do it is how they're trying to do it is to say - not to say that the prosecution has the burden, but to poke holes in the picture they're doing. Since the prosecution is not going to be able to really pin it down to his state of mind that day what he had done, they're trying to basically make the timeline with other evidence, plane flight, et cetera.

The difficulty for them is that knowingly element that they have to show and when the defense is making this point that this may all be a blur to Hunter Biden that in his mind He really could have been sober on that day, that just makes a very hard road for the prosecution.

KEILAR: Next, we are now sort of unexpectedly hearing from the person who sold Hunter Biden the gun. We thought we were going to hear from Hallie Biden, but it's the person who sold him the gun. I wonder what you're expecting there especially since what we've heard from the defense is they've tried to say actually Hunter Biden wasn't even that interested. They're trying to convince the jury of that in buying a gun.

WU: Yes, it's interesting that they're calling him especially at this moment. I mean they have to prove he bought the gun, I mean, but presumably they could do that just through authenticating the records. They had the gun. I think putting the person who sold him on has some dangers for the prosecution if he makes it sound like Biden I either seem kind of out of it when he saw him or he wasn't that interested in buying the gun. But basically they just want him to say, look, this really happened. He did buy the gun.

And the whole use of the audio tape like you're saying, Boris, I get why they're doing that. It's sort of like oh, he's confessing on tape, you know, like hearing his voice. The problem in doing that too, though, is that also causes a lot of emotionalism within the jury, which is you hear him describing the traumas he went through and such. So it may or may not work that way.

And again, it's kind of a general description. They don't have on this date I remember going into the gun shop. Doing this I remember seeing the box and I said no because I was lying about it. They don't have that.

SANCHEZ: Right. Shan Wu, great to get your perspective. Thank you so much.

WU: Good to see you.

SANCHEZ: So Democrats are on the defense today over a new Wall Street Journal report concerning President Biden. Its title, quote, "Behind Closed Doors, Biden Show Signs of Slipping." The report questions the mental acuity of the 81 year old president according to some 45 sources that they spoke to.

KEILAR: Yes, it's based on all of these interviews from both parties, we should mention, and one of the story's reporters spoke to us last hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIOBHAN HUGHES, REPORTER, "BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, BIDEN SHOWS SIGNS OF SLIPPING": The White House position has been that if only you could see the President behind closed doors if only you could see what we see, he's absolutely sharp as a tack. And so this aims to find out, well, what is the President like behind closed doors. We focused on three meetings in particular all over the course of the past year and there were things like mumbling, speaking in such a low voice that people could only hear every other word or couldn't understand what he was saying.

[15:10:02]

This over reliance on note cards, using note cards to make what were very obvious points and using them in ways that it affected the spontaneity of the conversation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's MJ Lee is live at the White House for us. MJ, Biden's camp is firing back. Tell us about this.

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They are firing back. But first of all, as you noted, The Wall Street Journal reporters said that they spoke with some several dozen people over the course of several months and they included Democrats, Republicans, administration officials who had either met with the President behind closed doors or were briefed on some of these meetings and what some of those people told The Wall Street Journal is that the President seemed slower and less sharp and was essentially showing his age and a reminder, of course, that the President is 81. He is the oldest person to serve as president.

And importantly, the story did say that most of the people who were critical of the President's age for the story did happen to be Republicans. But yes, you're absolutely right, the White House and Biden allies are pushing back really hard on this story. And one person in particular that was quoted throughout the story that clearly aggravated the White House is Kevin McCarthy, the former House speaker who of course spent a ton of time when he was in that job, negotiating with and talking with a meeting with the President.

And he said in the story that the President at times rambled. He was always using cars, he wasn't the same person that he was when he was vice president. And the White House's response was basically well that's really rich coming from somebody who at the time did say even publicly that the President seemed sharp in some of these negotiations.

And I think the broader pushback from the White House has been that this story sort of allowed Republicans to do a political hit job and go after the President in a politically motivated way and basically saying that the President wasn't all there but all with an eye towards November. They also took issue with the fact that the reporters didn't quote enough and cite enough some of the positive stories that Democrats shared with them.

But I did think there was a really interesting moment in the story where you got a real sense of how sensitive an issue the age issue is for this White House. The story said that several Democrats shared with the White House either a recording of an interview or details about what was asked by the reporters. And some of those lawmakers spoke to the journal a second time and once again emphasized the President's strengths.

Congressman Gregory Meeks, a New Yorker from - a Democrat from New York I should say said they said, "I should give you a call back" to the reporter. They, of course, referring to the White House.

You know, I heard The Wall Street Journal reporter telling you in the last hour that they wanted to give you a sense of what Biden is like in public versus what he is like behind closed doors. And I think it's worth reminding everyone what we do see in public is a mixed president, right? We sometimes see him on days when he does seem really focused, really sharp, really energetic and at times when he's not. And the reporters are saying that they did try to capture sort of those differences.

SANCHEZ: So MJ, the President is in France right now. He's kicking off this big week in Europe. Get us up to speed on his plans.

LEE: Yes. The President is making this trip to mark the 80th anniversary of D-Day, but there is just so much more on his agenda in the coming days, too. For one he is going to be a guest of the French president Emmanuel Macron for their state visit. And he's also going to be meeting with a number of world leaders including Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy all as the war in Ukraine is continuing to rage on.

And on Friday, we are going to hear the President offer this landmark speech on the issue of the importance of democracy. It is June of 2024, so I think there's no sort of separating out a foreign trip made by the President at this moment in time from all of the politics that are involved. And I do think that a theme that we will see over and over again coming from the President are some of the ideals that he believes his candidacy stands for particularly when it comes to the issue of democracy.

As I said, on Friday he is going to be giving that speech. And I think just quickly circling back to the discussion we were having on age, you know, this is a moment when he is going to be on the global stage and that means that there are going to be a lot of eyes on the President including critical eyes who are going to be watching closely to see how exactly he performs.

KEILAR: All right. We'll be looking for that. MJ, thank you. MJ Lee live for us at the White House.

And still ahead, top White House officials heading back to the Middle East, pushing for a ceasefire and hostage release deal between Israel and Hamas.

SANCHEZ: Plus, President Biden sweeping new asylum restrictions taking effect with some Democrats calling them cruel and a betrayal.

And this hour, the Senate said to vote on a bill that would guarantee access to contraception. Why some Republicans are now planning to block it. Those stories and much more coming up.

[15:14:58]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:19:20]

SANCHEZ: Top Biden administration officials are heading back to the Middle East to push a ceasefire and hostage release deal between Israel and Hamas. The proposal announced by President Biden last week comes in three phases including a withdrawal of Israeli forces from all populated areas of Gaza. U.S. officials say they're now waiting on Hamas to respond.

KEILAR: This deal can't come soon enough, tensions are ramping up along the Israel-Lebanon border threatening to expand the war into a regional conflict. Israeli officials say at least 10 people were injured today because of an attack from the Iran-backed militant group Hezbollah.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is with us now from Jerusalem.

Jeremy, what more do we know about this latest attack?

[15:20:03]

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in this latest attack Hezbollah appears to have struck the Israeli town of Hurfeish in northern Israel. At least 10 people were injured according to the Israeli military not clear yet how many of those are civilians or soldiers.

But there's no question that this is a significant attack. It was carried out by explosive drone according to the Israeli military. And it comes as we've been watching this kind of slow simmering conflict between Israel and Hezbollah over the course of the last eight months. Now, over the last week or so, there's been a slight uptick, it seems, in the pace and the scale of the attacks going in both directions. In terms of Israeli strikes in Lebanon as well as Hezbollah rocket and drone attacks in northern Israel.

But beyond the attacks themselves what has also really brought more attention to this are these wildfires that were sparked in Northern Israel over the last couple of days as a result of that rocket fire from Hezbollah as well as at least one Israeli Interceptor missile that sparked one of these fires. Thousands of acres were burned in northern Israel and it has really brought back attention to the unsettled situation in northern Israel where about 60,000 civilians at least have been displaced from their homes and there are growing calls to restore security there so they can return to their homes.

And today, the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, making a visit to northern Israel to survey the damage from the wildfires and talk about the security situation more broadly saying that Israel is, quote, "prepared for very intense action in the north." Vowing that one way or another Israel will restore security there whether that is through diplomacy or through military action.

SANCHEZ: And Jeremy, what's the latest with the ceasefire talks?

DIAMOND: Well, the CIA Director, Bill Burns, is back in Doha, Qatar to meet with the Qatari emir as well as the prime minister there who have been in direct contact with Hamas officials over the last several days since the Israeli proposal for a ceasefire and hostage deal was submitted to them. And we don't yet have an official response from Hamas yet to this latest proposal, but there's no question that the United States is trying to lead a kind of international coalition of countries to bring public pressure to bear to say that the onus is now on Hamas, that the ball is in Hamas' court and urging mediators like Qatar, like Egypt to bring as much pressure as they can to bear on Hamas to accept this deal.

But the major question, of course, is whether or not Hamas will be able to accept this deal because while Israel did make a number of concessions and are much closer now to the Hamas position, Israel is still not willing to front load a commitment to a permanent ceasefire and that is something that Hamas, of course, has been pushing for. Boris, Brianna?

KEILAR: All right. Jeremy Diamond live for us in Jerusalem, thank you so much.

And joining us now CNN Military Analyst and retired army Maj. Gen. James "Spider" Marks.

General, thanks for being with us. We hear Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu upping his rhetoric on this attack from Lebanon. He's saying that Israel is prepared for, quote, "Very intense action in the north." We should note that there have been other times where we've heard Netanyahu threatened Action or escalation with Hezbollah. I wonder if you see this moment as different.

JAMES MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Brianna, it could be different. What you could be seeing right now is the beginning of what I would describe as a holding action in Gaza. Let's just assume for a second that most of the tactical missions have been achieved there. And Then it displays the Israeli ability, the IDF capacity to operate on multiple levels and they are now going to put an emphasis on Lebanon.

So it wouldn't be surprising to see an increase in terms of the operational effort up north to go against what is now clearly an increase of provocation on the part of Hezbollah?

KEILAR: And when you see Israel increasing the cap of how many reservists can be called up from 300 to - 300,000 to 350,000, what does that tell you and how are you reading their military capabilities right now?

MARKS: Yes, I think this demonstrates - this is a sustained operation over the course of time. I think it's fair to say we all probably thought early on this might have a short horizon in terms of some type of a conclusion, not a full resolution but something that would terminate military operations, et cetera, at a much quicker pace. That's not the case and we're seeing that right now.

Increase the available capacity to conduct military operations, it allows you to train and sustain operations wherever they may be. And in this particular case, we're seeing a continual focus on Gaza, although it may be decreasing.

[15:25:03]

Israel still wants to have a capacity to conduct, you know, strike missions very precisely, very quickly against known targets in Gaza going forward and then what's happening up in - with Hezbollah up north in Lebanon remains to be seen, whether that's going to be a standoff type engagement, missiles, rockets, artillery or if there is going to be a ground invasion that might take place or very limited invasion against very specific targets.

KEILAR: Then, in Lebanon earlier today, news of a gunman targeting the U.S. embassy there. The State Department is now saying the gunman was wearing, quote, "What appeared to be ISIS insignia." What concerns does that raise for you. What questions do you have about that?

MARKS: None, I think that's a standard operating procedure. The only question I have is how dead is that guy right now. The United States and its embassy presence around the globe are routinely protected. We have great intelligence. We've had failures in the past in terms of being able to read the tea leaves. But in that part of the world, I have tremendous confidence that we have a good understanding of what the various threat lines look like and that this is not surprising at all. This may be a one-off. And it probably was a one-off. I don't know that it's a sustained effort going forward.

KEILAR: And just really quickly as we see top administration officials back in Qatar for negotiations. Do you see hope for a ceasefire and hostage release deal?

MARKS: We have to be hopeful that there is one. And bear in mind that what was put forward for the initial phase of this is a six-week kind of an interregnum before, you know, phase one give you about six weeks. That includes the departure of the IDF. You just don't snap your finger and all those forces depart.

So during that six weeks period if it's agreed to, the IDF is going to be very, very busy finishing up the work that they have not accomplished in terms of the denial of infrastructure and any final operations against very specific targets, I think it'll be a very busy time.

KEILAR: Gen. "Spider" Marks, always great to have your insights. Thank you so much.

MARKS: Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: President Biden sweeping new executive action targeting migrants who crossed the border illegally is now in effect. We will take you to the southern border to get new reaction on what impact these restrictions are having. Plus, new ways to stop shoplifting at TJ Maxx, Marshalls and

HomeGoods. What employees will now be equipped with.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)