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Netanyahu Likely to Defy U.S. Pressure; Mark Meadows to be Arraigned in Arizona; Ken Buck is Interviewed about the Arizona Election Subversion Case; Victor Blackwell is Interviewed about "Wheel of Fortune". Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired June 07, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: When the U.S. and 16 other countries are applying new pressure to Israel and Hamas to move forward - forward with a ceasefire deal. Overnight, President Biden said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think he's listening to me. They didn't - they were going to go into Russia - into Rafah full bore, invade all of Rafah, go into the city, take it out, move - move with full force. They haven't done that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I think he's listening to me, yet new CNN reporting today suggests otherwise.

CNN's Katie Bo Lillis in D.C. for us with much more on this.

Katie Bo, talk to us about your reporting.

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: Kate, my colleague, Zach Cohen, and I reviewed a recent CIA assessment that was circulated amongst senior U.S. officials this week and this assessment reflects some of the most up-to-date views from the U.S. intelligence community about Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's sort of political calculations. And it concluded that Netanyahu is likely to continue to defy pressure from the Biden administration and from the international community to define a really clear vision for post-conflict Gaza. Remember, Netanyahu has been in this - in the middle of this very tense balancing act in-between the right-wing elements of his very fragile governing coalition and the demands of the United States and the west.

Now, the CIA, in its assessment circulated this week, found, quote, that "Netanyahu probably believes that he can maintain support from his security chiefs and prevent defections from his right wing of his coalition by discussing the future of Gaza in vague terms." Essentially, Netanyahu likely believes that he can by himself a little time here by only talking about what a post-war vision for Gaza would look like in really vague and undefined terms. Now, this is largely what CNN and others have reported. But what's

significant here, Kate, is that this assessment really highlights the degree to which what the U.S. intelligence community and what the CIA believes is likely to happen in Israel is in direct opposition to what the Biden administration wants to happen in Israel. The Biden administration has been putting an enormous amount of pressure on Netanyahu to both bring a close to hostilities and come up with a really clear picture of what security and governance is going to look like in Gaza once the fighting stops.

Now, as we saw earlier, Biden, of course, has indicated that he believes Netanyahu is listening to him, but the CIA assessment really highlights the degree of divisions within the Israeli government that may make it difficult for Netanyahu to do what it is that Biden wants.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Really interesting reporting. Katie Bo, thank you so much, as always, for that.

Coming up still for us, two more Donald Trump allies set to be arraigned today in Arizona's fake elector case. What we expect to hear from Mark Meadows in court today.

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[09:37:10]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, Donald Trump's former chief of staff, Mark Meadows, will appear virtually for an arraignment in an Arizona court. He is one of several Trump allies to be indicted in the state over alleged efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

Now, former Trump 2020 campaign official Mike Roman is also expected to appear for arraignment today.

CNN's Zach Cohen joins me now.

All right, Zach, obviously there are a lot of arraignments, indictments, a lot of cases in the Trump universe. But in this particular case, in this particular arraignment, what are we expecting?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Omar, we expect Mark Meadows to make his first appearance before a judge in Arizona since he was indicted along with several other close allies of former President Donald Trump in this election conspiracy case where they allege that Mark Meadows, quote, "worked with members of the Trump campaign to coordinate and implement the false GOP electors votes in Arizona and six their states." And effectively the goal was to keep Trump in power despite his defeat at the polls.

So, the Arizona attorney general, these are state-level criminal charges. The Arizona attorney general is alleging that Meadows participated in a conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election results in Arizona. And today, Mark Meadows will be informed formally by the judge of those criminal charges he faces. They include a felony conspiracy count, a felony count of fraudulent schemes, and felony forgery counts. Now, those all relate to the fake elector plot, the effort to organize and submit those fake certificates claiming that Donald Trump won states like Arizona, when he actually did not.

And, you know, Mark Meadows is not the only person who's expected to appear before an Arizona judge today. Mike Roman, who's a former Trump campaign aide, we do expect him to similarly make his appearance before a judge. And like the other defendants in this case, which include Rudy Giuliani, and which include all the fake electors from Arizona, Mark Meadows and Mike Roman will be expected to have their mug shots taken, just like any other criminal defendant.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Zach Cohen, really appreciate the reporting, as always.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: And joining us right now to talk more about this and other topics, former Republican Congressman Ken Buck from Colorado. It's great to see you, Congressman. To remind everyone, Congressman left Congress just in March of this year.

You were a federal prosecutor -- before that, you were a federal prosecutor for many years. How much trouble? You haven't seen all the facts of this, the details of this indictment in case, of course. But how much trouble do you think Mark Meadows could be in in Arizona?

REP. KEN BUCK, (R) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, if he's convicted of all the charges, it will be a substantial term. It's obviously a state case in Arizona, not a federal case. But the allegations of forgery are significant and carry a serious penalty with them.

Now, in white collar cases like this, what typically is the prison time on something is really minimal compared to what we consider more serious violent crimes.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. Moving to kind of the broader picture of the efforts to overturn the 2020 election in January 6th, about kind of all of the cases, Donald Trump really went off on social media overnight with a series of statements, concluding Congressman with the declaration that he thinks the members of Congress who were on the January 6th Select Committee should be indicted, plainly suggesting now he'd like to see opponents targeted by the country's justice system.

[09:40:27]

Do you think -- do you take Donald Trump seriously when he suggests this?

BUCK: I don't take him seriously. I don't think anybody in his future administration, if he wins, would take him seriously. Certainly a court would throw something like that out right away.

The rhetoric is dangerous because he's talking about political opponents who were, you know, doing their job, investigating a case. Now, I didn't agree with some of the conclusions they reached. They didn't have Republicans appointed by the Republican conference on the committee.

But the fact that a congressional committee is conducting oversight of a previous administration is not an indictable offense. And as -- as -- you know, I don't know if he intended it as a joke, but it isn't funny to me as a former member of Congress.

BOLDUAN: And I did want to ask you about that because I think this is -- in public comments, he's done three times in three days suggesting that, you know, political opponents should be targeted. And what you often do offer, Congressman, is nuance when it comes to this, comes to a lot of topics, which is, there's not a lot of nuance in what I'm hearing from Donald Trump. I want to play for you one example of what he's talking about in terms of targeting political opponents. Here he is speaking with Hannity just this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: People are claiming you want retribution. People are claiming you want what has happened to you done to Democrats. Would you do that ever?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Look, what's happened to me has never happened in this country before. And it has to stop. When this election is over, based on what they've done, I would have every right to go after them. And it's easy because it's Joe Biden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: What's your reaction to that?

BUCK: Well, my reaction is that Donald Trump says one thing and does another. And in some cases, it's fortunate. He said he wanted to lock Hillary up, Hillary Clinton up when he was running in 2016.

He became president in 2017 and never appointed the Special Counsel, never directed the FBI to reinvestigate the case. So I think that his rhetoric is meant to embolden his base, maybe, or energize voters. But hopefully, again, the people around Donald Trump will act in a responsible way and recognize that we don't have retribution in this country for political opponents.

BOLDUAN: Well, you mentioned the special counsel, because I wanted to ask you about that. I've actually heard you compliment Merrick Garland. And you've called Merrick Garland a great attorney general for the fact that he has appointed special counsels when it comes to sensitive investigations.

Trump is trying now in court to get Jack Smith essentially thrown off the case and have his special counsel status invalidated in the Florida classified documents case. Should he be allowed to do that in the Florida case?

BUCK: I don't believe he should. There is an interesting legal question that I have never seen raised before. It's whether the Senate has to confirm somebody like a U.S. attorney before that person can be appointed as a special counsel. I think it's a case of first impression. I don't think that it's going to be successful, but it's one of those things where defense attorneys use everything they can to try to get out of going to trial and eliminate a case like this.

BOLDUAN: You have -- I've been -- I saw this headline, I saw this news, and you have a unique perspective on this, being a member of Congress and now a former member of Congress. Intel committees, because of the nature of the sensitive information they handle, have a long tradition and history of working in a bipartisan way, trying to, mostly trying to keep kind of flame throwing politics out of it.

Now we have House Speaker Mike Johnson. He just appointed, kind of the antithesis of that to House Intel, Scott Perry and Ronny Jackson being appointed to the committee. Perry played a major role in Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Jackson has a series of ethical issues in his past, including a demotion from the Pentagon over his conduct while serving as White House physician. Does that concern you?

BUCK: It neither concerns me, honestly. Scott Perry not only has served honorably in Congress, but has also been a general in the United States Army Reserves.

[09:45:00]

And so I think he brings an interesting and strong background to the Intel Committee.

Ronny Jackson also has served in the military and has that kind of background that would benefit the House Intelligence Committee. So I understand that they are not perfect. I understand that they have engaged in things with President Trump that some of their rhetoric may look dangerous, but I think both of them have served the country admirably and would add value to the Intelligence Committee.

BOLDUAN: Former Congressman Ken Buck, thank you for coming in.

BUCK: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: So, how about this, I'd like to solve the puzzle, friends. It's the end of an era. Pat Sajak, host a "Wheel of Fortune," about to take his final spin.

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[09:50:16]

BOLDUAN: Tonight, to millions of people are likely to tune in for the end of an era. Pat Sajak retiring after 41 years and 8,000 episodes of "Wheel of Fortune, "the longest running host ever of a single game show. May we all be so lucky.

JIMENEZ: Exactly.

BOLDUAN: And in honor of this moment in TV history, we decided to have a little fun because, why not, and it's Friday. And by fun, I mean I get to put Omar on the spot.

JIMENEZ: Great. Love that. Love that. What are we -

BOLDUAN: Here is your category.

JIMENEZ: Oh. OK.

BOLDUAN: And here is your puzzle to solve.

JIMENEZ: All right. I mean I think I can guess -

BOLDUAN: Queue the music.

JIMENEZ: Pat Sajak's final show.

BOLDUAN: Great.

JIMENEZ: Yes? Yes?

BOLDUAN: Glad I - glad I set you -

JIMENEZ: Boom.

BOLDUAN: So, I'm setting you up for success. Don't - don't ever say I'm not nice to you.

JIMENEZ: Yes. No, very nice. Kate could have done anything there.

BOLDUAN: Moving on. Moving on.

JIMENEZ: And -

BOLDUAN: Moving on.

JIMENEZ: And she helped me.

BOLDUAN: Moving on. Moving on.

OK, now we have one for all of you at home. The category is people. And we will give you a clue, because that's a broad category. The answer is, a CNN anchor who was once a contestant on the "Wheel of Fortune."

JIMENEZ: Not me.

BOLDUAN: OK. I'll count it down. In three.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, I'm Victor Blackwell from Howard University.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: CNN's Victor Blackwell joins us now.

Victor, I have known you for years. I did not know this. And I loved that video.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Episode 3,429, February 8, 2001. When I tell you, I remember everything about this experience. It was part of the - like the best moment of my college career. So, it was college week in D.C. So, the producers went to the major campuses around the D.C. area. They came to Howard University. I auditioned. I think it was in September. And then for two weeks I was waiting for a call back. Like, did I make it?

I was on the yard one day and they called and said, would you like to be on the wheel? I said, yes. Yes, I would like to be on the "Wheel of Fortune." We've taped in October and Pat and Vanna were fantastic. Things I learned about the show, the wheel, at least then, was hand painted. I didn't know that. That they paint that - there was someone with a brush on the wheel. They tape five shows in a day. So they did all of college week in one day. I remember all of the puzzles. I remember, you know, the totals.

So, I want to see how you would do. Here's one of the puzzles from that show.

BOLDUAN: Oh, geez.

BLACKWELL: I'm going to give you ten seconds to see if you can solve it.

BOLDUAN: Great start.

You're onto a great - no -

JIMENEZ: You're off to a great start.

BOLDUAN: We're - we're - we're off to a great start.

JIMENEZ: Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yes.

BLACKWELL: All right. So, here's a look at how I did.

BOLDUAN: Together we create one brain.

JIMENEZ: No, that was a crew effort too. That was a crew effort.

BLACKWELL: Here's a look at how I did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: I'd like to solve the puzzle.

PAT SAJAK, HOST, "WHEEL OF FORTUNE": Oh, go ahead.

BLACKWELL: We're off to a great start.

SAJAK: Aren't we thought.

(INAUDIBLE). Nice going. (INAUDIBLE). And you got this thing.

BLACKWELL: Yes. (INAUDIBLE).

SAJAK: We are. You are anyway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Now, it was downhill after that because I didn't - I didn't solve another puzzle. But I did go home with $2,350.

JIMENEZ: Honestly, look, you went home with something. I feel like that is the main thing.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Exactly. Exactly.

JIMENEZ: Now - now, look, Victor, there was also this - this awesome moment where, I mean, sure, you didn't get another clue, but you did predict your future a little bit.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

JIMENEZ: Let's take a look at that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAJAK: Victor Blackwell, Baltimore, sophomore at Howard University right here in Washington. Broadcast journalism, huh?

BLACKWELL: Yes.

SAJAK: You hope to pursue that as a career?

BLACKWELL: Yes, I hope to be an investigative reporter for one of the major networks.

SAJAK: Oh, so you might come here snooping around one day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Yes. I've known I wanted to do this since I was nine. So, that was an easy question. I wish chocolate, chocolate chip cookie had been mine. Someone said c, and then went home with like $30,000, but that wasn't my turn of the wheel.

BOLDUAN: I mean that's like the definition of manifesting, though, which I really love.

JIMENEZ: I know. (INAUDIBLE).

BOLDUAN: You say it on "Wheel of Fortune" and you get it.

OK, so what do you - I mean the end of an era with Pat Sajak. I can't imagine anyone having such a great career in a gameshow.

Ryan Seacrest is up next. I can't even imagine - what do you think Pat Sajak's going to do next? BLACKWELL: So, we have some hints about what he's going to do. I'm sure he's going to take a little break first after doing this for so many decades. He's been in our homes and part of our lives. "Variety" is reporting that he's going to go on to the stage and be on a stage performance of "Prescription Murder" in Honolulu at a regional theater there with one of his friends who's a local anchor.

[09:55:03]

He's going to stay on the show as a consulting producer for a few years. But he deserves some time off.

Pat Sajak's been with us for so long. We've got all of the reruns. More than 8,000 shows. I am just grateful that I had a moment there with him and the wheel. Again, it's one of the highlights of my college years. One of the highlights of my life.

Next, I want to be on "Jeopardy." I don't know if the producers are listening.

BOLDUAN: Oh, wait -

JIMENEZ: Manifesting it now.

BOLDUAN: OK, wait - wait, wait, wait.

BLACKWELL: Yes, "Jeopardy."

BOLDUAN: You portably know this because I - I choose to never rerun it. I was on -

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BOLDUAN: What was it called, like power players "Jeopardy" at one point.

BLACKWELL: Oh, OK.

BOLDUAN: I did - so you do two rounds. You do a practice round beforehand and then you do the real thing.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BOLDUAN: I killed it in the practice round. And that -

JIMENEZ: Find the footage.

BOLDUAN: And - no, no, no. And then I completely froze in the norm - in the - in the - in the main one. So, be careful what you wish for, Victor. Be careful what you wish for.

BLACKWELL: I am calling the universe to bring me "Jeopardy." "Jeopardy" next.

BOLDUAN: Oh, my God. I can't -- I'm really bad at "Wheel of Fortune" I will admit. JIMENEZ: Yes, that was the best I've ever done. And that's because you gave me a layup.

BOLDUAN: Congrats. Let's - let's begin and end there.

JIMENEZ: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Great to see you, Victor. Seriously, what fun.

BLACKWELL: All right.

BOLDUAN: Don't forget to watch the first - first - "FIRST OF ALL WITH VICTOR BLACKWELL" tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. right here on CNN.

Thank you all so much for being here. Omar, thank you for ringing in the weekend with me.

JIMENEZ: Always a pleasure, and thanks for matching my tie, not on purpose at all. I mean it's intuition here.

BOLDUAN: The least important news of the day.

Thank you for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "NEWSROOM" up next.

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