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Hunter Biden Found Guilty. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired June 11, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with our breaking news. A federal jury finding Hunter Biden, the president's only surviving son, guilty on three felony gun charges, a historic first-ever conviction of a sitting president's child. And any minute, the president himself is expected to speak at a previously scheduled event on gun safety, and we just learned that afterwards he will be traveling to Delaware to be with his son.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Last hour, the special prosecutor in the case gave his first statement since the jury reached their decision this morning. Here's David Weiss.

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DAVID WEISS, SPECIAL COUNSEL & U.S. ATTORNEY FOR DISTRICT OF DELAWARE: This case was about the illegal choices the defendant made while in the throes of addiction, his choice to lie on a government forum when he bought a gun, and the choice to then possess that gun. It was these choices and the combination of guns and drugs that made his conduct dangerous. Second, no one in this country is above the law. Everyone must be accountable for their actions, even this defendant. However, Hunter Biden should be no more accountable than any other citizen convicted of this same conduct. The prosecution has been and will continue to be committed to this principle.

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SANCHEZ: Some jurors, though, are now questioning whether this case should have even been brought, with one woman saying to CNN that it seemed like a waste of taxpayer dollars. This is someone who served on the jury. Another one calling the process quote frustrating because he quote felt like we couldn't get the full story. Let's take you now live outside the federal courthouse in Delaware with CNN's Paula Reid. We also have CNN's Kayla Tausche with us at the White House. First to you, Paula, what else are jurors saying about this historic verdict?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: This is fascinating, Boris. Our colleague, Hannah Rabinowitz, talked to several jurors to get these details about what exactly happened in the deliberation room. And yesterday, when they took their first vote, which is usually what you do when you go into the back to begin your deliberations, you put the first vote in the deliberation room. And then you put the second vote in terms of these three counts, who's for a conviction and acquittal, who's not sure. One of the jurors tells Hannah that it was 6-6, so it was split half and half. We know this jury is comprised of six men, six women. It is a majority black jury. We learned when they came back this morning it was 11-1 in favor of conviction. So at least some jurors went home, and after some more reflection, after they got some sleep, they decided that they were, in fact, convinced the prosecutors had proved this case beyond a reasonable doubt.

We learned that the other jurors really focused on that one holdout and convinced that individual that prosecutors had proven the element of knowingly. Knowingly is significant because prosecutors had to prove that Hunter Biden knowingly lied when he filled out that form to own the firearm. He knowingly lied that he was either using or addicted to illegal drugs. And we have kind of a mixed verdict from the jury on whether this was a worthy pursuit.

One juror telling Hannah that they believe this was a waste of taxpayer money, but they thought they had no choice but to convict based on the instructions that they were given by the judge. But then another juror that Manu Raj and I talked to on air said that he believed that, yeah, it was a legitimate pursuit. So it seems like even though they were unanimous in their conviction, a little bit of a mixed verdict in terms of whether this case, which has come under criticism even from prominent Republicans like Lindsey Graham and Representative Matt Gaetz, mixed verdict from the jurors as to whether this was a good use of taxpayer money.

KEILAR: And Kayla, to you, how is the president responding? How's the White House reacting?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, the president is now scheduled to travel to Wilmington, Delaware later this afternoon. That travel expected to come after he delivers public remarks at an event here in Washington on gun safety issues and gun violence prevention.

He was expected to talk about what his administration has done to pass common sense gun laws and to pursue things like expanded background checks, some of those background checks, of course, at the heart of the form that the president's son, Hunter Biden, was now found by a jury to have lied on in those convictions that came out today.

The president did release an official statement that echoed much of the support that he has shown for his son, Hunter, in the past. That statement, if I may read it, it says, as I said last week, I am the president, but I am also a dad. Jill and I love our son, and we are so proud of the man he is today. He goes on to say so many families who have had loved ones battle addiction. Understand the feeling of pride seeing someone you love come out the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery.

[14:05:09]

As I also said last week, I will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as Hunter considers an appeal. Jill and I will always be there for Hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. Nothing will ever change that.

You may remember the Biden family was together in Delaware in the days preceding the beginning of the trial last week when President Biden was traveling in France for the 80th anniversary of D-Day, an estate visit. The First Lady traveled back and forth to be in the courtroom to support Hunter and to support Hunter's daughter, the Biden's granddaughter, Naomi Biden, as the defense called her as a witness to testify. The First Lady again appearing in court shortly after the verdict was read today. So the Bidens are making no secret of their desire to be there for Hunter and be there for the broader family as they are going through this but as the President said in his statement they are willing to let the judicial system speak for itself here.

KEILAR: All right, Kayla Tausche, Paula Reid, thank you to you both. We appreciate it.

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss now with our panel. We have CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams, CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel, CNN contributor and Biden biographer Evan Osnos, Republican strategist Shermichael Singleton, and former Biden White House communications director Kate Bedingfield. And Kate, as a former communications director for President Biden, what do you anticipate he's going to say at this speech? Does he mostly stick to the script? Does he mention it at all?

KATE BEDINGFIELD, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I would be very surprised if he mentions it at all. I think he's been very disciplined about not speaking about this case. You saw him put out a written statement where he reiterated what he's essentially said from the start, which is he loves his son, he supports his son. Obviously, he is showing with his feet by going to Wilmington that he supports his son, that he's there for his son. You know, there's not a huge imperative for the president to turn the narrative toward conversation of this and, you know, adding a topper to this event and bringing the conversation back there doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So I'd be really, really surprised if he adds something at the top of his remarks. Not impossible that he might take a question from reporters on his way out the door, but I would expect that he will probably be focused on the on the topic at hand here.

KEILAR: This, Shermichael, was a previously scheduled event, but it is on gun safety and we heard just a short time ago, David Weiss, the U.S. attorney, the special counsel who oversaw this prosecution talking about how it was a combination of drug use and choices, this combination of drugs and guns that was dangerous. So you have the gun trial and you have this gun event. And I just wonder what you think about that.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yeah, I mean, so the next system-so when you complete form forty four seventy three in order to possess or purchase a firearm or to transfer a firearm or to pick up rather transfer of a firearm, you complete that document. The FFL holder typically at a gun shop will run your information through NICS national instant background check system, which is in existence because of the ninety three Brady Act, President Biden knows a whole lot about that. And it's to make sure that you don't have any criminal background in order to legally possess a gun.

So it is interesting that the president is speaking about this issue. Yet his son, for the most part, would have been able to successfully complete the background check were it not for his inability to do so because he used illegal substances. I do wonder, though, and I mentioned this to Kate earlier. Would the president potentially commute his son's sentence to avoid SCOTUS being able to take a look at this and say, wait a minute, we do need to make some changes because this is in violation of the Second Amendment? And I think that's a fascinating topic for the White House to consider.

BEDINGFIELD: It's a really interesting question. I don't think that the president would ever view this as a gun safety strategic issue. I think to him, first and foremost, it's an issue of the president not inappropriately intervening in the in the judicial system. And then secondly, of course, it's an issue for his family. So I would be I would be very surprised if he used it in that strategic way. I don't think that's the lens through which he's seeing it.

SANCHEZ: Let's pivot away from the politics for a moment, because obviously this is one of two cases, federal cases that Hunter Biden is facing. And, Elliot, as we look at a potential sentence, we have to await whatever he's going to face in California. But what are you anticipating might come?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Not a lot. And that's not, you know, all this talk about sweetheart deals. And we're talking about the federal sentencing guidelines here. And they're quite clear for gun possession offenses, number one, where the firearm was not brandished during the commission of the offense, number two, with the defendant that does not have a criminal history, number three. Those things in all likelihood lead to a prison sentence within the guideline range of, I believe, zero to six months. Now, to be clear, the judge can go below that or above that if he can, pardon me, can justify a reason for doing so. If she thinks it's in the public interest or to rehabilitate this defendant or to keep the public safe, certainly she could go higher. Or if she felt that even a prison sentence of two or three months, whatever that might be, would still be too onerous in this case, she'd go below it and just give him probation or so on.

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But the simple fact is the law is clear, passed by Congress and ratified over years of people being sentenced, that this particular three convictions will not lead in all likelihood to much prison time.

KEILAR: It's interesting hearing from the jurors. The jurors who convicted him on all three charges on this, Jamie, and yet we've heard from multiple jurors, different things. One woman who said it seemed like a waste of taxpayer dollars. Another man who said he doesn't think that Hunter Biden should see jail time. I don't know if everyone pays attention to the ins and outs of things, although I wish they would, because I think it's pretty interesting to hear from the people who convicted him and what they think about this. JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: So I thought the most fascinating thing was hearing from juror number 10, who did an interview. We protected his identity. It made you crazy.

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WILLIAMS: Made my head. Oh, my God. And I want to be clear, for the benefit of viewers, for people who are interested in how the system works, it's a fascinating, beautiful look inside the jury room. It makes prosecutors' heads explode because of the risk of that person making some statement that suggests that they brought in other information or other facts that could jeopardize and get the whole thing thrown out. And it happens.

GANGEL: But at the end of the day, what he really said was the common sense prevailed. He said that the jury believed that Hunter was an addict at the time he filled out the form. So they answered that question. And then he said, I believe, and the jury believed, he did knowingly buy the gun knowing he was addicted. Pretty, pretty common sense. The other thing that I just thought was interesting was we asked him, was the jury influenced by the Biden family? And you could really see this was a Delaware jury because first, juror number 10 said, not at all, put it out of our mind. But when he talked about members of the Biden family, he called the first lady Jill. That's a Delaware jury. And Hallie and Naomi, they know the members of the family.

WILLIAMS: And taking off my annoying prosecutor hat, the most important thing he said was that they weren't unanimous. They came back in the morning and were close to unanimous. And then got there. And the law would have required them to do that. If they'd come back and said that we can't agree with each other, the judge would have instructed them to come back and figure out a way to do so. The system, this is why we don't have that many hung juries or split verdicts, because the system sort of urges people to do so. And it worked.

SANCHEZ: The jurors also talked about how they didn't factor in who Hunter Biden was, the president's son, into their deliberations. I do have some sound from one of the jurors talking about Naomi Campbell's testimony. Let's listen to that.

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VOICE OF JUROR 10, JUROR IN HUNTER BIDEN CASE: I felt bad that they put Naomi on trial as witness. I think that was probably a strategy that should not have been done. No daughter should ever have to testify against her dad.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: So just to be clear, Naomi Campbell did not testify --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: No she didn't. SANCHEZ: -- Naomi Biden testified. We have Evan Osnos with us, a biographer who's closely followed Joe Biden's life and his family. Obviously, this case extremely personal. How do you think they're absorbing this result? And as the president heads to Wilmington after this speech, what do you imagine the atmosphere in that room as he meets with Hunter is going to be like?

EVAN OSNOS, BIDEN BIOGRAPHER: You know, this family really for the 50 years that they've been in public life have had this kind of unusual awareness of the tragic sensibility. I mean, the reality of tragedy in your life and the tragedy in this case, was no question about it was Hunter Biden's descent into this period of addiction.

He'd struggled with it in the course of his life before that, but it was really the death of his brother in 2015 that sent him and ultimately the whole family down this really dark period. And I think one of the things we've learned from this case is, and this is important as we try to understand the lives of our presidents in this country, is we've gained a much deeper understanding of what was happening in Joe Biden's life in the years between 2017 and 2021 when he was out of office before he came back in as president after the vice presidents they were dealing with just a tremendously difficult and grueling period and it is still now unfolding and you see them gathering in Wilmington as they always have done over the years. Joe Biden used to spend the night as you know in Delaware even when he was in the senate because he was a single father so there is a way in which they are returning to the hometown to begin to regroup.

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KEILAR: Evan, thank you so much. Obviously, a look into how the Bidens are approaching this. And Elliot, I know that you just wanted to say we've been talking about sentencing. Tell us what you would--

WILLIAMS: And I want to be clear, it could be higher than that zero to six figure I'd given. The sentencing guidelines are exceptionally complicated. It may be upwards of 12 months, but there are a number of factors, including the nature of the prohibition, the nature of the statute and so on. Needless to say, you're looking at a period of months to low one years or but not several years in prison. Like so when we hear this, well, he's looking at 25 years in prison. That's certainly not accurate. That's just if you go with the the ceiling that one could get.

SANCHEZ: And quickly, Elliot, how does the California case potentially impact the sentencing for this gun case?

WILLAIMS: Well, it doesn't. Well, in terms of the timing, the judge will likely wait until and sentence both until after we know what happens in the California case. This could have an effect on the California sentencing because now he has a felony conviction on his record, which would certainly in a criminal history, which would bump up his sentencing in the in the California case.

SANCHEZ: Is there a chance he would serve concurrently. WILLIAMS: Well, they're two-it all depends on how the judges cut it

up. Now this is multiple charges. They would be lumped concurrently and then it would be up to the judge in California to determine how to sentence after that.

SANCHEZ: All right, panel, please stay with us and stand by. We're waiting to hear from the president at a gun safety event due to speak at any moment just hours after the conviction of his son on federal gun charges. We'll bring you the president's remarks as they happen. Stay with CNN.

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[14:20:09]

KEILAR: Let's get some political and historical perspectives on the first conviction of a sitting president's child as we are awaiting right now President Biden, who is going to be speaking here shortly at a gun safety event here in Washington.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, we were told the president departed the White House a short time ago. This event is at the Washington Hilton, so it's not that far. We're anticipating his remarks will come at any moment. Let's discuss now with CNN political analyst, historian and professor Julian Zelizer. Julian, thanks so much for being with us. Just the historical perspective here. Have we seen something like this before in terms of a sitting president's relative being convicted?

JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST & HISTORIAN & PROFESSOR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: No, the conviction is something new. It's a first. We've seen former president's children in trouble. Neil Bush, for example, got in trouble with a savings and loan issue, but it didn't reach the point of indictment and conviction, so that makes this a new moment in American history.

KEILAR: You have Bill Clinton, who pardoned his half-brother, Roger Clinton, on his way out of the office for a drug conviction in the 1980s. Jimmy Carter's younger brother, Billy Carter, faced tax and ethics investigations. How is this different?

ZELIZER: Well, yes, family problems and family issues always enter. Opponents try to use that. This is happening right in the middle of the campaign. Obviously, it involves Biden's opponent, the former president, Donald Trump, himself being convicted and facing multiple other charges. And so all of this comes at once. And it is certain that the Republican nominee will try to use this to muddy the waters, to try to paint some sort of equivalency between what he faced and what Hunter Biden faced. And so the context makes it different. Donald Trump makes it different. And also just our current era, where it's harder to really create guardrails and the kinds of informations and allegations that will emerge from this also make it different.

SANCHEZ: And one thing that is different about the way that these convictions have come down is the way that the protagonists in these cases have approached the situation. You have Hunter Biden and President Biden's family essentially saying that this is up to jurors, that this is up to the legal system. And then you have Donald Trump and his acolytes saying that the whole system is rigged against him.

Julian, how do you see that sort of playing out? How do you see that dynamic?

ZELIZER: Well, I think that is a contrast that the parties are going to highlight. Certainly, Democrats want to show that President Biden supports the legal process, even when it involves his own son. Not only is he saying, you know, the decision is one that comes from the courts, he's not saying he's going to use presidential power to somehow issue a pardon or something. And you contrast that with the former president who's attacked the legal system. He's questioned its legitimacy. And so I think that is part of the choice voters are going to have in November. Both responses really are indicative of the difference with how the parties and the two top candidates see our major political and legal institutions and voters will have to make a choice. What kind of response do they want? And what kind of person do they want in the Oval Office come January of 2025?

KEILAR: It's also, I think, a moment, and I wonder how you see it, that we're in when it comes to Americans questioning institutions, losing faith in institutions. And clearly that plays in to how President Biden is approaching that. Do you see that?

[14:25:09]

ZELIZER: Absolutely. I mean, the legal system has been one part of our system, of our politics, that has been immune, really, from the growing distrust that has faced everything else from Congress to the media to the presidency. And I think President Biden very much is not just doing this for political reasons. He wants to reiterate that the legal system is central. It's a backbone to our democracy. But it's becoming harder to do. And I do think this campaign, because of the way that the former president is launching attacks on the system, will be a stress test, unlike many that we faced, and a stress test for the legal system. And it comes as the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court itself is embroiled in all kinds of issues with Justice Alito and Thomas that are raising questions for the public about are the courts political or are they legal? And what defines their decisions?

SANCHEZ: Yeah, a highly politicized time, unlike many in the nation's history. Julian Seltzer, very much appreciate your perspective. Thanks for being with us. We are still awaiting comments from President Biden. He's set to speak at the Gun Sense. University Forum that's taking place in Washington, D.C. He's expected to tout the passage of a bipartisan gun safety bill that was passed after the shooting in Uvalde, Texas, back in 2022. We're going to continue monitoring the podium there to see when President Biden shows up. When he starts speaking, we'll, of course, bring it to you live. Stay with CNN.

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