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Maryland Governor Expected To Pardon 175,000-Plus Marijuana Convictions; Israeli Announces "Tactical Pause To Allow In Humanitarian Aid; Biden To Meet With NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg At White House. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 17, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:32:17]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Far-reach and aggressive. That's how Maryland's governor described his decision to issue a mass pardon for people convicted of low-level marijuana charges. Governor Wes Moore is expected to announce this pardon this morning, according to The Washington Post. This is timed to coincide with Juneteeth, a holiday that commemorates the end of slavery in the United States.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is joining me now. This is a --

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.

SIDNER: -- huge -- this is a --

SANDOVAL: Yeah.

SIDNER: -- big deal for those directly affected by it and for the families of those affected by it. Tell us what this is all about -- how this came to fruition, and how many people this might affect.

SANDOVAL: So, potentially, 175,000 people, Sara. We do expect that announcement later today.

In his interview with The Washington Post, Gov. Wes Moore saying that these blanket pardons -- he said that he at least hopes will be a step in the direction towards healing what he described as decades of social and economic injustice that was impacting -- that has -- that continues to impact Black and brown people.

The governor expanding on that a little bit, saying that what you have are these low-level marijuana-related offenses that resulted in criminal records for, really, at least 175,000 people that has impeded some of those minority communities from securing things like housing, education, health care, and, of course, the list goes on.

I want to read you a portion of the quote there from the governor that he shared with The Washington Post that was first to report this development. The governor saying, "I'm ecstatic that we have a real opportunity with what I'm signing to right a lot of historical wrongs. If you want to be able to create inclusive economic growth, it means you have to start removing these barriers that continue to disproportionately sit on communities of color."

Now, we should mention this is coming just two years after Maryland voters approved the legalization of recreational cannabis -- a move that we've seen in nearly half of the country. There is no doubt we have seen these sweeping oceans of changes when it comes to public opinion regarding the legalization and the decriminalization of small amounts of marijuana.

When you look at some of the Gallop polling from this past November, you'll see that at least 70 percent of Americans polled support the legalization of recreational marijuana, Sara. For context, this figure is up from 51 percent about 10 years ago. So since then we have seen these significant steps not only at the state level but also at the federal level as well to decriminalize or at least issue these kinds of pardons.

And then just to put some of the fine print here in terms of what we expect today that this will apply to anybody with misdemeanor convictions for marijuana possession or paraphernalia. This will not result in any releases from jails, according to the Wes administration. And finally, no one will be extended to everyone with some of these low-level offenses.

[07:35:00]

The Wes administration effecting that it will direct -- expecting that it will largely impact Black and brown people in a good way given the rate of incarceration, especially in a state like Maryland.

SIDNER: Going to jobs, for example --

SANDOVAL: Right.

SIDNER: -- and having to say yes -- exactly.

SANDOVAL: Standing in the way of security those jobs.

SIDNER: Exactly.

Polo Sandoval, interesting story. Thank you so much for sharing it.

SANDOVAL: Thanks, Sara.

SIDNER: John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Over the weekend, a direct push from Donald Trump to pick up support among Black voters in historically Democratic voting blocs.

CNN senior data reporter Harry Enten is with us. So where does the race stand among African American voters right now?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yeah. I keep looking for this to change -- to go back to historical norm -- and simply put, it has not yet.

So this is the margin or Biden and Trump, among Black voters -- compare where we were at this point in 2020 and compare where we are now. You know, at this point, look at this. In 2020, Joe Biden was getting 86 percent of the African American vote.

Look at where it is now. It's 70 percent. That's a 16-point drop, John. And more than that, it's not just that Joe Biden is losing ground; it's that Donald Trump is gaining ground. You go from seven person -- single digits at this point in 2020 -- to now, 21 percent.

And again, John, I keep looking for signs that this is going to go back to normal and I don't see it yet in the polling. If anything, right now, we're careening towards a historic performance for Republican presidential candidates, the likes of which we have not seen in six decades.

BERMAN: And when you dig into this number here, what is the makeup of that number?

ENTEN: This is where we get very interesting. So I decided to deep -- dive deeper into the crosstabs and figure out where is it that Joe Biden is truly struggling among Black voters, all right?

So this is Black voters, Biden versus Trump margin. Look at Black voters aged 50 and older and you'll see -- look, Joe Biden was leading amongst this group at this point by 83 points back in 2020. Now it's 74 points. So, yeah, a slight decline in that margin but nothing out of this world.

Look at Black voters under the age of 50. Holy cow, folks -- holy cow. Look at this. Joe Biden was up by 80 points among this group back at this point in 2020. Look at where that margin has careened down towards. It's not just -- get this -- 37 points. That lead has dropped by more than half, Mr. Berman -- home.

I've just never seen anything like this. I'm, like, speechless. Because you always look at history and you go OK, this is a historic moment. If this polling is anywhere near correct, we are looking at a historic moment right now where Black voters under the age of 50, which have historically been such a big part of the Democratic coalition, are leaving it in droves.

BERMAN: That is a huge drop over a four-year period -- at least, right now.

All right. What's the impact of third-party candidacies here -- Robert Kennedy Jr.?

ENTEN: Yeah, you know -- so, all right. So obviously, we have third- party candidates this year with the two major party candidates being so. All right, so this Black voters, Biden versus Trump in the battleground states. This was according to a poll last month from The New York Times-Sienna College.

Again, look. It looks very similar to what we see nationally, right? Joe Biden at 63, a very poor position for a Democratic candidate. Donald Trump at 23 percent.

If we add Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to this, look what Joe Biden drops to. Less than half the vote among Black voters. Less than half the vote among Black voters in the battleground states. Donald Trump drops as well to 14 percent, so not quite nearly as historic.

But look at this. RFK with 11 percent. You basically have a legitimate sort of three-way race here. Yeah, Joe Biden well ahead, but with less than 50 percent of the vote. John, I never thought I would see something like this among Black voters.

BERMAN: And for those questioning who Robert Kennedy would hurt more, at least in these numbers in this measurement right here, Biden loses 14; Trump loses nine. So it's clearly Joe Biden.

ENTEN: It's exactly right. It seems to me this is -- yes, it's partially an artifact of Donald Trump perhaps being better liked among Black voters, but it's also a real artifact of Joe Biden being significantly less liked among Black voters than he was four years ago.

BERMAN: Harry Enten, great to see you. Thank you very much.

ENTEN: Great to see you.

BERMAN: Sara.

SIDNER: All right. To continue this discussion, joining me now, CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers, and Republican strategist Joseph Pinion. Thank you, gentlemen.

You just heard Harry Enten with shock and surprise on this face as he was looking at the numbers.

And I want to go to you first, Bakari. What explains this? Biden, 70 percent; Trump, in 2024, 21 percent of voters. A very high number. And then when you look at 50 and under, the numbers are dramatically different for any Democratic president that we have ever seen. These numbers very high for a Republican candidate. What explains that, you think?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, (D) FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE (via Webex by Cisco): Well, probably -- I mean, if you want to be honest about it, if Donald Trump gets those numbers, then I truly believe that I can sell Harry this bridge in Brooklyn. I mean, that's just not happening.

I think that people have to just level set a little bit, relax a little bit. Stop hyperventilating. Donald Trump is not going to get 20 percent of the Black vote. He's simply not.

[07:40:00]

Black voters traditionally -- as we go throughout this process as you get to Labor Day, et cetera, a lot of Black voters do come home to the Democratic Party. They're all warning lights. I've said it from the past three or four months about turnout.

But I think that Harry and everyone else who are looking at these polls analyze this race incorrectly all the time. And the reason they analyze this race incorrectly is because Donald Trump isn't the biggest threat to Joe Biden. The biggest threat to Joe Biden is Black voters staying at home.

Black voters aren't going to all of a sudden, under the age of 50 or however old they are, because he gets four or five unnamed rappers from Detroit or four or five unnamed rappers from the Bronx to support him -- they're not going to all of a sudden flock to Donald Trump.

There is a threat, however, that Black voters simply will stay at home because they feel sometimes like the policies passed in Washington, D.C. haven't necessarily touched the pockets of them.

I don't have the same shock and awe. I just think here we are in the middle of summer and things will stabilize and get back to norms as they always do.

SIDNER: But the numbers are the numbers, Bakari. I mean, are you saying just don't believe the polls or are you saying you don't think these polls --

SELLERS: (INAUDIBLE).

SIDNER: -- will be representative of the population once voting begins in November?

SELLERS: Oh, both -- both. I think that traditionally -- I think what we've seen over the past eight years is pretty bad polling. And then I think what you've seen consistently since that time is individuals have a very difficult time acknowledging that we've had that polling, and the polling continuously gets worse. And so, I think that's one of the issues that we have.

But, I mean, the Biden campaign has -- they do have issues with African American voters in terms of getting them to turn out to vote. That is a fact.

I was with Kamala Harris last week in Charlotte, North Carolina, and one of the things she was trying to do was ensure that she got Black voters to the polls, particularly younger Black voters. So they are working towards that.

But I -- you know, for some -- Donald Trump is not getting 20 percent of the Black vote. He's -- I mean, that -- I can sit here and say that as a fact today.

SIDNER: I know you have a different opinion, Joseph Pinion, as your head is madly shaking. What are your thoughts on these -- on these numbers? And you've got Bakari and Joe Biden himself has sort of said he doesn't believe the polls, although it was on the economy. Does Donald Trump get 20 percent of the vote?

JOSEPH PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Look, I actually find myself agreeing a lot with some of the assessments by my friend Bakari.

Look, I think Democrats are, in many ways, trying to either poo-poo the numbers or they're trying to scare people into changing the numbers. The reality is the Republican Party that gets 20 percent of the Black vote is the Republican Party that stops losing elections. And the notion that Democrats would no longer enjoy monolithic support from the Black community is something that terrifies Democrats up and down the ballot.

So, yes, I understand why they are trying to push back against the narrative, but it comes at their own peril because for decades -- my entire life -- they have told us every four years we're not allowed to talk about the fact that Black schools are failing Black families. That we have a three-strand code of despair from that failure in those schools that, in many ways, is driving the poverty, which leads to the criminal element.

There is no Biden plan to make American communities more safe. There is no Biden plan to give broader access to school choice. These are issues that Black families are tired of having placed on the backburner.

And so whether it's Joe Biden spending $25 million -- he tried to push a Bidenomics ad buy that ended up with them getting rid of the term Bidenomics, or him now trying to make this push on character, saying that I am the character candidate and President Trump is not, Black people I think writ large are beginning to wake up to the reality that we cannot continue to engage in politics the same way. That does not mean that they are going to all of a sudden, like lemmings, start voting for Republicans.

But it does mean that there are a considerable -- a larger number of Black voters who are going to hold their vote. And to Bakari's counts, maybe they're not voting for Joe Biden, but they might not be willing to come out in the rain or on any day to continue to support a party that places their needs at the backburner.

SIDNER: I want to ask you how you think Black voters get over some of the things, though, that Donald Trump has said over the years, which -- or just the racist -- let me -- let me go to some of the things that he's said over the years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The mugshot -- we've all seen the mugshot. And you know who embraced it more than anybody else? The Black population. It's incredible.

And a lot of people said that that's why the Black people like me because they have been hurt so badly and discriminated against. And they actually viewed me as I'm being discriminated against.

African Americans are getting slaughtered. Hispanic Americans are getting slaughtered. And these millions and millions of people that are coming into our country -- It makes me sad because I am -- I am the least racist person. I can't even see the audience because it's so dark, but I don't care who is in the audience. I'm the least racist person in this room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:45:03]

SIDNER: He's said a lot of different things that really were upsetting to Black folks and white folks, frankly.

How do you get over that? How does someone get over that?

PINION: I'll just say this. We're not in an election where you're saying this is the person who is perfect on race versus this is the person who is terrible on race. I think that we like to whitewash away the racial gaffes of the candidates when we believe in the underlying policies of that candidate.

So whether it's Joe Biden talking about racial jungles 30 years ago, and Kamala Harris having to remind people that little girl on that bus you didn't want us on was me, or whether it's Joe Biden as recent as two years ago reminiscing about the good times. He used to hang out in the cafeteria with all of those avowed racists in the United States Senate.

Yes, there are plenty of comments that we can't talk about from these presidents. There are people on the left who I think will probably take more issue with the racial legacy of Donald Trump. But most people I think are saying it is a pox on both houses if you are someone who subscribes to the notion that racism is the original sin of this country. It is certainly not confined to either side of the political aisle.

And that type of, I think, myopic approach to dealing with race is why we have had such a difficult time fixing the issue of race. I think it's why you see people now, in spite of all the things Democrats are talking about, continuing to go back to that 2016 playbook about the Central Park Five. It is not working.

The numbers are eroding before our very eyes and Democrats can ignore them at their own peril.

SIDNER: Bakari, what are your thoughts on how he is seen by the Black community after the comments he makes?

SELLERS: Listen, I just listened to my good friend not actually answer your question, and I thought that the dodging was pretty good. I thought it was good. I thought it -- I thought your elocution was amazing.

Look, the fact is Donald Trump uses racism as political currency. To his -- to his point, this is baked into the cake of who Donald Trump is. I mean, we know Donald Trump is racist. So any time you sit here and say look, that guy over there is racist -- don't vote for him -- that's really not moving the needle. And so, you are right when you talk about pointing out the facts and

the words that Donald Trump uses and how he gets rid of all of the diversity departments and civil rights departments, and all the federal administrations -- federal administrative departments when he was President of the United States.

When you think about these things and you tie in the language that he uses, the fact is Donald Trump is not trying to woo Black voters to the Republican Party. That's not what this is about. When you see him go to Black churches or when you have Kwame Kilpatrick become a shell of himself and go out and endorse Donald Trump, that is not to show the world that Black voters are voting for Donald Trump.

What he is trying to do, though, is make himself more palatable to those college-educated white voters, to those Independent voters, to the voters in the suburbs. That is what this play is about.

That -- this play is about moving that needle in the middle and saying look, I'm having this group come to me -- or come back to me. I'm able to do events in Black churches -- quote-unquote "Black churches." And so you need to give me a second look. You need to see that this campaign is different that the past and I'm more of an all-around candidate.

And so I think that's what this is about more so than a true play to get Black voters all of a sudden to find a new home in the Republican Party.

SIDNER: That is a really interesting argument, Bakari.

I will have to congratulate both of you for being so gentlemanly to one another. In these difficult political times we are always at each other's throats. So, thank you both for coming on this -- maybe it's because it's Monday. I feel like on Friday this might be a little bit different.

Thank you, gentlemen -- appreciate it. All right.

SELLERS: Thank you.

SIDNER: And -- of course.

In just 10 days, we're probably going to see some fiery comments. CNN hosting the first presidential debate between President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump. This morning, we have some new details about how that crucial event is actually going to proceed.

Both campaigns have agreed to these terms. The debate taking place in a television studio. There will be no live studio audience.

There will be a total of two commercial breaks, which has not been done before, and during these breaks, campaign staff will not be able to interact with their respective candidate. In other words, they can't be trying to help them a little bit.

Both Trump and Biden agreed to appear at a uniform podium. A coin flip, like a game, will determine their positions. And the candidates' microphones will be muted except when it is that candidate's turn to speak.

It all goes down June 27 at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

All right, what's next for securing aid to Ukraine as President Biden prepares to meet with the NATO Secretary General today. We will have that story and more coming up.

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[07:54:23]

SIDNER: This morning, CNN has learned Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has disbanded the country's war cabinet just one week after opposition leader Benny Gantz decided to leave the group. It comes as the fighting in Southern Gaza remains paused this morning to allow critical aid into the area. But even with this tactical pause, it does not mean an end, of course, to the fighting -- the war there.

CNN's Paula Hancocks is in Israel with more on this. What can you tell us about this disbanding and what is happening with this pause as well?

[07:55:00]

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, we've just come from the Kerem Shalom crossing where this tactical pause is supposed to take place. You've got a route out of that crossing into Gaza and then up the Salah al-Din Road, which is effectively the north-south artery in Gaza.

Now, the IDF has said that this will allow more humanitarian aid to be distributed, calling on the international groups to do more. Though we've spoken to those international groups and the U.N., for example, inside Gaza and they have said that it is simply too dangerous sometimes to get to that area to be able to pick up the aid, saying that there is a state of lawlessness within Gaza itself.

Now, I did ask the IDF spokesperson if they were going to be escorting these convoys in Gaza to make sure they can get to where they need to. He didn't respond to that but said there would be, potentially, military checks along the way.

Now, also, as you say, Sara, Benjamin Netanyahu has disbanded that war cabinet. He said that decisions on the war going forward will be made in the Security Cabinet now, which is a wider group, and they'll also have smaller forums to decide exactly what they are going to do going forward.

It's not necessarily a surprise. The War Cabinet as three people and with Benny Gantz leaving, you're really only left with the prime minister and the defense minister. So at this point, he says it won't affect decisions on the war in Gaza -- Sara.

SIDNER: Paula Hancocks, thank you so much live there from Kerem Shalom -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Later today, President Biden will meet with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg at the White House. The meeting comes after defense ministers agree to put NATO in charge of coordinating aid to Ukraine.

With me now is the U.S. permanent representative to NATO, Ambassador Juliane Smith. Ambassador, thanks so much for being with us. A lot of people look at this agreement to put NATO in charge of distributing aid going forward as Trump-proofing aid to Ukraine out of concern of what would happen if there is a shift in the U.S. administration. They want to make sure that aid still gets there even if a potential Trump administration doesn't want it to.

Is that how you see it?

JULIANNE SMITH, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO (via Skype): No. How we see it inside the NATO alliance is that all of the allies came together, sat down with our friends in Ukraine, and tried to determine how we could bring greater coordination and coherence to all of the efforts that have been unfolding over the last two years.

As you know, there are over 50 countries around the world supporting the Ukrainian military with security assistance. And obviously, the Ukrainians have been interested in taking any assistance that they possibly could get their hands on.

But it is now time to step back and figure out how NATO can provide better coordination of those efforts -- not just the security assistance that's flowing into Ukraine, but also the training. Many, many countries are training Ukrainian troops. We want to make sure that those efforts are properly coordinated and brought together under one roof.

So, NATO will be taking on some new tasks going forward, starting as early as this summer when we will host the NATO summit in Washington, D.C.

BERMAN: There was just an important conference in Switzerland over the future of Ukraine and the idea of peace going forward. And there was a joint communique issued from this conference talking about the importance of respecting territorial integrity -- borders. Namely, borders like Ukraine's borders, which Russia has encroached on. That was a joint communique that came from this conference. Yet, several of the major countries that were there -- India, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, the UAE -- wouldn't sign that.

What does that tell you?

SMITH: Well, I think what it tells us is over 80 countries at that summit came together and made clear to Russia that those countries are very interested in maintaining the key tenets of the U.N. charter. Countries care about their territorial integrity and their sovereignty. Countries -- those 80 countries wanted to send a strong signal to Russia that their efforts to take over Ukraine and make Ukraine go away will not be tolerated. So, from our perspective, we were pleased to see so many countries

come to the summit. We were honored to have the vice president there, along with the national security adviser Jake Sullivan. And I think Russia received the message loud and clear that countries around the world will not tolerate another country taking over and invading a neighboring country.

BERMAN: There are countries that signed it -- many, many countries signed it, but some did not. Again, my question is what about the countries that did not sign it? Does it concern you that they do not have the same feelings about territorial integrity that the United States does?

SMITH: Well, there were a handful of countries that opted not to sign the text that was agreed at the summit. And here, what Russia is trying to do is trying to use disinformation to persuade countries around the world that somehow NATO is responsible for this war or that NATO allies are directly engaged in the war which, of course, is not true. Russian disinformation is out there swirling around in many, many corners around the globe.