Return to Transcripts main page
CNN News Central
Steve Bannon Makes Bid To Supreme Court To Avoid Prison; NY Targets "Addictive Algorithms" On Children's Social Media; U.S. Cricket Team's Remarkable Run Wins Over New Fans. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired June 21, 2024 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:33:33]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Former Donald Trump adviser, Steve Bannon, is running out of time to report to prison. Now, he's asking the Supreme Court to delay his sentence on a contempt charge from nearly two years ago for not complying with a subpoena from the House Committee on January 6th.
Let's get perspective from former attorney for Steve Bannon, David Schoen.
David, thank you so much for joining us.
So Bannon's lawyers claim that he's being forced to serve his prison sentence now as a way to prevent him from serving as an advisor in the ongoing national campaign.
The thing is, if he'd just gone to prison when he was sentenced, he would be out by now. So why is he still fighting this?
DAVID SCHOEN, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR STEVE BANNON: Well, that's the weakest argument they raised, and that's one of the reasons I quit the case. That's not a legal argument to be made.
But there is a strong legal argument to be made for bail. And I think they'll get it, frankly. I think the next step is going -- as you know, the panel last night, the Court of Appeals panel for the D.C. Circuit, in a two-to-one decision, denied is application for bail.
The dissenting judge, Judge Walker, said, basically, what Judge Nichols had said to me in the district court, that is -- but Judge Nichols was much stronger. He said that the question for bail is whether it's a closed question that could well be decided the other way.
The panel in this case didn't have the authority to overrule the 1961 case on the definition of (INAUDIBLE) in the criminal context. The on- bond (ph) court for the circuit would, the Supreme Court would.
[13:34:59:]
And the point is Bannon would have a chance to have those courts review that before going to prison. If you were to go to prison, he'll serve the entire sentence before this important legal issue is heard.
I personally think the issue is a slam dunk. I think there are eight to nine votes after the 2019 case. Unknowingly, I think that there are eight to nine votes to reverse the conviction in this case.
Judge Nichols himself, who tried the case, said he thinks that conviction is likely to be reversed.
SANCHEZ: Let's go step-by-step into some of the substance there. Because, you know, there was another Trump adviser, Peter Navarro, who was also convicted for defying the January 6th Committee. His lawyers fought all the way to the Supreme Court to delay his sentence.
His requests were ultimately rejected, though. So fundamentally, what's the difference between Navarro and Bannon?
SCHOEN: You ask a very good question. And another reason that I quit. What happened here is, by the way, about a week-and-a-half ago, Bannon asked me if he could have another lawyer call me to help me with the briefing, the rehearing. I said sure.
Instead, that lawyer filed a ridiculous motion for bail pending appeal. The one that was denied. Didn't know anything about the case, wasn't qualified for it. I don't work with lawyers under those circumstances, so I quit. But I've sent a bunch of memos since.
And now the one before the Supreme Court encompasses the arguments I made in the district court, although it leaves out a number of other questions.
I'm -- anyway, one of the differences is, in the original motion, the guy compared it to Navarro. The Navarro case is completely different. Didn't have executive privilege, didn't have the advice of counsel, which goes directly to the willful issue.
But remember this, it's going now to the associate justice for the D.C. Circuit, Chief Justice Roberts. Chief Justice Roberts denied Navarro's bail request. Nothing on the merits, bail request because he found that he had waived his arguments for bail.
Unfortunately, I raised all of the arguments for bail in this case. And Judge Nichols found at least three bases for bail.
He ultimately, after letting them out for a year and eight months, revoked it at the government's request because of his authority. He doesn't have the authority to overrule the panel. But now it's a different question and a different posture.
So Navarro waved his arguments for bail. And in that order, Chief Justice Roberts said nothing should be taken to imply any decision about the merits of the case. On the merits of the case, Bannon will win.
SANCHEZ: I take your point about Navarro waving his right to bail. And we could talk about executive privilege, because it's surprises me that you would try to argue that Steve Bannon had executive privilege. At least Navarro was still part of the administration at the time.
Nevertheless, there is something else that I want to get your thoughts on because Steve Bannon made comments recently about former FBI Director Andrew McCabe.
I want to play for you Bannon's comments on his podcast and then McCabe's response to our colleague, Anderson Cooper. Let's get your reaction on the other side of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, FORMER ADVISER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: Why is Andrew McCabe, Mr. Tough Guy, Mr. FBI Tough Guy, why is he wetting himself? Why does he wet himself on national TV? He's damned scared because he understands the end is near.
Get your passport, get the hell out of the country because, hey, we're coming. We're going to grab the long arm of the law. Going to grab you back, Bro.
We will hunt you down and bring you back and you will stand accountable before the American people.
ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: I know what to expect. It's not about me. I'll be fine. It's about people who will be experiencing this for the first time.
And, more importantly, their families. Like I talked to former officials and everyone is in the same place. Like we are still committed to this country and seeing this through. We still have faith in the systems that are -- that are built to protect the rights of every American.
But that's a hard thing to explain to your family when they're thinking, basically, they don't want to have to live in this kind of fear and terror for another four years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: David, what's your reaction to all of that?
SCHOEN: Well, I don't talk in those kinds of terms. I don't indulge that kind of rhetoric.
Giving him the benefit of the doubt, what he means is there's a school of thought that a number of FBI officials played unfairly during the Trump administration, and that they're going to be held accountable under the law eventually, I would assume.
I got to -- OK, one last point, for me at least. You -- you mentioned before you were surprised by executive privilege. You should ask Mr. Uriarte, the deputy attorney general, about supporting Mr. Garland's advocation of executive privilege. Hir was not a member of the executive branch.
It was a 2007 opinion from the Office of Legal Counsel that executive privilege extends to people never employed in the executive branch if the president so invokes or a former president.
SANCHEZ: I guess there's also a question about whether Trump's actions leading up to January 6th were part of an official act. And that's something that the Supreme Court has not necessarily weighed in on.
Nevertheless, David Schoen, we appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with this.
SCHOEN: Thank you very much.
SANCHEZ: Of course.
[13:39:50]
Still to come, big changes are coming for New York's youngest social media users. The states governor is signing into law a first-of-its- kind bill that clamps down on digital platforms. We're going to take a look at the fallout from this, still ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: So New York has just passed a first-of-its-kind crackdown on kids' use of social media. This is one of two bills that Governor Kathy Hochul signed into law on Thursday.
One involves the collection and sharing of kids' personal data, and the other may drastically change the way that your child's feed looks because it targets algorithms directly, which the governor says promotes "addictive behavior."
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yes, under this law, sites like Instagram would be required to show minors in New York content-based on chronological order. Right now, the algorithm presents a mixed bag, which often leads to marathon scrolling sessions online.
Joining us now is CNN media correspondent, Hadas Gold.
I don't know, I might like that chronological order based myself, Hadas.
(CROSSTALK)
[13:44:59:]
KEILAR: I kind of liked it. So tell us more about these laws and what the response has been?
HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, New York is not the first state to try and pass a law regulating children's use of social media.
But what's unique about this law is that it's targeting the algorithms specifically. We haven't seen that in these other state laws. This bill also had near unanimous bipartisan support.
And of course, it's coming the same week that the surgeon general said that there should be a tobacco-style health warning on social media. So that does give us a few specifics.
But what this law says that, unless there is explicit parental consent otherwise, anybody who's under the age of 18, their feed will have to be in chronological order.
And also that there should not be any notifications between the hours of 12:00 a.m. And 6:00 a.m. And that there should be no suggested posts in their feed.
And if there are violations, that the social media platforms can be fined up to $5,000 per for violation.
Now, here is what Governor Hochul had to say about this law.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): We have a moral responsibility to protect young New Yorkers from harm and from addictive forces. They're trying to transport them from happy-go-lucky kids into teenagers who are depressed, isolating themselves from human contact and, in some extreme cases, contemplating ending their own lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLD: Now again, parents can consent to kids' using the regular algorithm as we have today. But if they don't consent to that, that's when these rules come into place.
Now, the platforms lobbied hard against this. Meta, in a statement, they said that, "While we don't agree with every aspect of this bill, they do welcome some aspects of these law that recognizes responsibility of app stores."
Meaning that they would need parental approval before kids can download some of these apps.
Now, Net Choice is a group that represents some of these platforms. They have come out harder against this. They say -- they called this law "dangerous and unconstitutional, saying it infringes on the First Amendment rights.
And they actually argue that it will increase children's exposure to harmful content because, they say, it will Web sites to order feeds chronologically, prioritizing recent posts about sensitive topics.
"Parents," they say -- "not politicians -- should be making the rules for their families."
Now, Net Choice has not said that they will challenge this law. But there is an expectation that there will be legal challenges to this law.
And Net Choice has already successfully challenged other laws trying to regulate social media for children in other states. In Ohio and Arkansas, they successfully challenged in the legal system those laws as well. So it is a first-of-its-kind law. It does not go into effect right
away. And we do expect some legal challenges to try and see whether they will be able to take this law back down.
But it goes to show you that there is a big effort there, even on the state level, to try and do something about children's use of social media because we have seen how damaging it can be to their mental health.
SANCHEZ: And we've also seen inaction from Congress. They haven't really addressed this beyond holding hearings with the heads of social media companies.
Hadas Gold, thanks so much for the reporting.
Still to come, an underdog story unlike any other. Thanks to a surprising the success by Team USA, America is now going crazy for cricket.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:52:42]
SANCHEZ: The Cinderella sports story of the month involves a game that many Americans, including me, know very little about, cricket.
The U.S. is co-hosting the T20 World Cup. And the home team is on a remarkable run, winning over legions of new fans.
Our resident cricket guy, CNN's Nick Watt, explains why this is something we should all enjoy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Does the president have a message for this unexpected success?
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're talking cricket at the White House.
REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: We all congratulate them on the success. It's tremendous and were cheering them on.
WATT: They've been playing cricket in Florida, Texas, New York, to some sellout crowds. America is waking up to this, the second most- popular sport on earth, after only soccer.
Today, our boys in red, white and blue take on their co-hosts and two- time winners, the mighty West Indies, with Andrei Russell in their ranks. Goes by Dre Russ.
They're a dangerous team, England. On Sunday, America meets England. They invented this game that eventually gave you all baseball.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's like baseball but it's better. (LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's baseball that is better.
WATT: Got to catch bare handed and you're allowed to hit the batter.
America's part-timers and semi-pros were never expected to get this far, no way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, they deserve to be here playing at this level.
WATT: This guy is a software engineer, Monday through Friday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Match of alcohol and many others had to fool their employers, I suspect, for time off to play the Super Eight.
WATT: But a stunning nail-biting victory over powerhouse Pakistan. Runners-up last World Cup got the USA this far, to the fabled Final Eight.
A New York-born batter with the Barbadian lilt was a hero that day.
AARON JONES, TEAM USA BATTER: I think, to be honest with you, we could be anything in the world. We are going to try to get as far as possible in workup. We want to any work up.
WATT: Most of these guys were born abroad, now, oh, so proud to play the game they love for the adopted country they love.
COREY ANDERSON, TEAM USA ALL-ROUNDER: And when that national anthem comes on, it gives me some goosebumps. And I never thought I'd ever think that way about another country.
WATT: You have no excuse not to fall in love. It's not that complicated.
(CHEERING)
WATT: They say a home run is worth six bounces. First, that's four. You're out if caught, or if the ball hits those poles. There are some other ways, but baby steps, America, baby steps.
[13:55:03]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cricket is building a new vibe here in America.
(CHEERING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you can see here it's all -- it's all here.
(CHEERING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And can't wait for -- can't wait for more. It's only going to get bigger and bigger.
WATT: These games last about as long as baseball. But so far, this World Cup, on average, more than nine homeruns every game, nine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We always wanted to really and truly open the eyes of Americans as it relates to cricket. I think things are just going to get better and bigger from here.
WATT: Remember, you fell in love with soccer after that World Cup was here in 1994. And cricket never ends, nil, nil.
ANNOUNCER: It pays dividends straight away.
WATT: Never.
(on camera): The traditional image of cricket as gentlemen wearing fluffy sweaters and drinking tea and taking five days to finish a game, it's kind of changing.
Major League Cricket landed in the U.S. in 2023. And at the 2028 Olympic Games, cricket is going to debut.
When there's a gold medal at stake, maybe that's what will really get America involved.
Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Brianna, what do you think? Should we start a league?
KEILAR: Let's do it.
SANCHEZ: We're doing it. Yes, we're doing it. The CNN cricket league.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Happening now, Donald Trump's legal team is in court trying to get the former president's charges dismissed in his classified documents case. They claim that Jack Smith was unlawfully appointed as special counsel.
We'll have the latest from court in just a few minutes. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
