Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Catastrophic Flooding Slams Upper Midwest; Israeli Hostages And Families Group Releases New October 7 Video; Special Counsel Defends Handling Of Mar-A-Lago Documents. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 25, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, CO-FOUNDER, LIFT OUR VOICES: Media will say that he acted presidential or whatever he's -- she framed it as. And that's true.

I mean, I remember during the 2016 campaign and even into his first term, there was this constant level set of maybe this is the day he's going to act presidential. Maybe this is the day he's going to lean into being presidential. I think by now we all know he's incapable of doing that. That's just not how he rolls.

And so, part of it is let's cover him the way we should cover him, which is as somebody who can't complete a coherent sentence. As somebody who is not particularly well-versed in the issues. As somebody who is running to avenge himself and not for any other reason.

And so, rather than saying well, maybe this is the day that Trump leans into the presidency, we all know who he is. He's been around a really long time and it's time to really take him at his word, which is what we're going to see on Thursday.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Jesse, I'm curious -- you know, the Democratic strategists are saying go on the attack and -- instead of sort of defending your own -- your own history as president.

But Hillary Clinton argues there are three things. Pay attention to how the candidates talk about people. The second one was try to see through the bluster and focus on the fundamentals at stake. And third, when you see these two men in the race side-by-side, think about the real choice in this election.

Who is right because she doesn't seem to be saying attack Donald Trump? She seems to be saying something very different.

JESSE HUNT, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, NATIONAL REPUBLICAN SENATORIAL COMMITTEE, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, TIM SCOTT'S 2024 PRESIDENTIAL SUPER PAC: Well, I find it ironic that Hillary Clinton is giving debate advice seeing as she is the one who ultimately lost in 2016 to Donald Trump, and the debates were a big reason for that.

You know, look, these are two of the most experienced presidential debaters that we have. Joe Biden has run for president four times; Donald Trump now three times. The American voters really know who these people are. So I think both candidates are going to be hunting moments. These are moments that will then be picked up in earned media, on social media, and live for days after the event.

I think that's certainly what the Biden campaign is looking for. They're going to try to bait Trump into litigating the past. But right now, Trump is successful in this race because he's talking about the future. And I think that's what he needs to stay focused on. Ultimately, I think he's a little bit quicker on his feet.

And the Biden campaign certainly concerned about falling into the trap of feeding into the existing narrative that he's not up to the task. So is that a moment that he shows kind of a lapse of focus? That he misstates a name. That he gets lost on stage a little bit. I think those are the sorts of moments that have the potential to go viral and capture these less engaged voters' attention.

SIDNER: I want to ask you about this -- both you and Julie. Trump called for this overnight on this social media. A drug test for Joe Biden who he is saying should have one before the debate. And he says oh, sure, I'll agree to one, too.

Jesse, is this Trump's way, simply, of making voters doubt Biden's ability even if he does well because he can say oh, well, he was all boosted up? He's already said it on the campaign trail.

HUNT: Trump is nothing if not a showman. I think it's undermining the point that Joe Biden is somebody who voters have a lot of questions about his competence. Whether he has the ability to go the full duration of the debate.

You know, this has been the most protected president that we've seen when it comes to media interviews and engagement with the mainstream press. I think everyone can acknowledge that across the board. And so, these sort of high-profile media moments lend a degree of uncertainty when it comes to how Biden will handle it. And I think Trump is just reinforcing that with some of these comments that I think he knows are said in jest.

SIDNER: All right, Julie. What do you make of this new political game that's being played?

ROGINSKY: Well look, he's level-setting, right? Because it can't be that Sleepy Joe, as he's termed him for the last, I don't know, eight years or however long it's been that he's been doing this, can possibly do all the debate.

So it has to be either that CNN is rigging the debate against him, which is why he's going after the moderators, or it has to be that Joe Biden is on drugs and that's why he suddenly overperformed expectations. It can possibly be that Biden is the competent person that some of us know Joe Biden to be.

And so, it's just a game and it's a level set for his own base. But it's not -- you know, he's not really appealing to anybody beyond that MAGA base, and that's the problem for Trump as to how you expand that appeal to people who obviously understand the president is not on drugs and understand that CNN is not rigging the debate against him -- a debate, by the way, that he agreed to do.

SIDNER: Right.

I want to talk about who they're going after. History notes presidential debates often have the power to connect people at the margins.

Is there a difference between who Biden needs to win over and who Donald Trump needs to win over?

ROGINSKY: Well look, this is an incredibly -- both of these candidates are incredibly well-known, right? And so I do agree with the point that both of them have to stick the landing on a moment, and that moment or two will define this debate. Many people will watch this debate. More people will see clips of this debate.

SIDNER: Um-hum.

ROGINSKY: And it's what you're running and the rest of the media is running tomorrow morning and in the coming days that both candidates need to really understand is going to define the outcome of this debate.

SIDNER: Jesse, who is Donald Trump sort of trying to bring to his side because obviously, the base is the base? But Joe Biden has a fissure in his base. Donald Trump does not. So who is he looking to try and win over?

[07:35:04]

HUNT: These are the same voters who have watched the last four years and feel like Biden is not working for them. That Bidenomics is not working for them. It's the voters who care that inflation under Joe Biden is now at a cumulative rate of almost 20 percent.

It's a lot of those voters who actually have lived through a Donald Trump presidency and a Joe Biden presidency and ultimately, prefer the policies under Donald Trump. And it's reminding those voters what he can -- what he can give back to when it -- when it -- when it comes to dealing with the crisis at the southern border and host of other issues.

It's remaining focused on the future, and I think that's where Trump will have his most success. And it's also trying to knock Biden off his game a little bit. We know that Biden struggles when he has to operate quickly. And I think if Trump's able to exploit that a little bit a lot of these Independent voters -- these low -- less engaged voters, I'd say, that consume a lot of information on social media -- this has a chance to penetrate their kind of -- their thought bubble and have an impact -- a lasting impact on this race.

SIDNER: I want to just pivot really quick to what I would be curious to see if either one of you think is a bellwether. We're seeing huge amounts of money put into a race here in New York. Democratic Congressman Jamaal Bowman's political future could be decided today. His primary election is being viewed as a battle between the progressive wing of the Democratic Party and the establishment.

He's going up against George Latimer who has Hillary Clinton's support and has been very pro-Israel and supported by pro-Israel groups.

What are you watching for, Julie, as you watch this? And is this a potential bellwether?

ROGINSKY: I don't think so. I think this is a very unique race that's, for whatever reason, focusing on one particular issue, which is not just the policies that this country is having toward Israel, but also some of Congressman Bowman's rhetoric that's really veered into antisemitism separate and apart from the Israeli policies.

And so, I don't think is a bellwether between the establishment and a bellwether between the progressives. I think it's more about whether Congressman Bowman's rhetoric, specifically toward Jews but also not just toward the Jewish community, is something that this district, which is very heavily Jewish and has been represented for many years before Bowman by a very prominent Jewish congressman is going to -- is going to live with.

SIDNER: Jesse, how do you see it?

HUNT: If you're the Democrats this is unfortunate timing. You had the campus chaos die down a little bit when kids left for school. But now, you have this test case here with this race predominantly focused on Israel and Bowman's anti-Israel comments. So I think that's a problem for Democrats.

I think -- you know, you mentioned in a -- in a previous discussion that there are some existing fissures within the Democratic Party. So if Bowman's successful here I think that causes the Biden campaign a lot of heartburn, particularly when you know that a lot of these college kids are due to come back to campus this fall. And if the Israel-Hamas war is still continuing, as we expect it to, that's going to create a whole lot more turmoil at a time when they can least afford it.

And not to mention there's going to be another test case with Cori Bush, another anti-Israel Democrat. She's facing a competitive primary later this year.

So I don't this this conversation is going away after today. And ultimately, we'll see which direction it turns in. But, you know, a Bowman win would be a nightmare for Democrats.

SIDNER: All right, Jesse Hunt, Julie Roginsky. Thank you both so much for coming on this morning -- John.

HUNT: Thanks for having me.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, high alert in southern Minnesota. I think we have pictures of this to show you where a dam on the brink of collapse, in imminent failure condition, officials are saying, after heavy rain caused major flooding. The dam is being hit and damaged by floating debris. You can see it there.

The same storm system drenched South Dakota -- that's the Big Sioux River -- causing that railroad bridge to collapse.

In Sioux City, Iowa, officials rescued 17 people and forced some evacuations. President Biden has approved a major disaster declaration for several counties in that state.

Let's get right to meteorologist Elisa Raffa for the latest on all this -- Elisa.

ELISA RAFFA, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yeah. I mean, incredible images of this dam in Minnesota where you can see just how violent and rapid the water is. All of this debris getting knocked on the side where part of the dam was breached on the west side, and they're watching it very closely.

We still have flood warnings in effect for that part of Minnesota. It stretches towards South Dakota -- Sioux Falls -- and northwest Iowa. We still have flood warnings stretching down the Missouri River across Sioux City. And it's because we had 10 to 17 inches of rain in parts of South Dakota and northwest Iowa over the last couple of days. But look at the swath of four to six to seven to eight to nine-inch totals.

Sioux Falls, South Dakota had its wettest two days on record -- 6 1/2 inches. And that's one of the smaller totals. A lot of totals had been in the double digits.

We are still looking at flooding on the rivers. The rain has stopped but now the rivers are reacting. We still have 24 rivers that are at major flood stage across parts of South Dakota and northwest Iowa there. This is where those people were rescued in Sioux City because the Big Sioux River hit a record nearing 45 feet. The previous record was 37 feet.

[07:40:05]

So we're seeing these rivers rise to record levels not just by a little but by a lot. We're talking about five feet or more. And that's why it's causing so much damage.

We need to find this water going somewhere, so there will be some downstream flooding on southern parts of the Missouri River. And then down the Mississippi as well in the coming days. If you look at the Mississippi River in St. Paul, you can see it is forecast to get up to major flood stage at 20 feet. Currently, it's at 16.

So again, we'll continue to see some of this flooding as we go through the next couple of days. But by the weekend, at least in the parts that are hard-hit right now, those rivers should start to come down - John.

BERMAN: All right, that would be welcomed news. Elisa Raffa, thank you very much -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. stock market is on a historic run this election year. Since January, the S&P 500 has passed its own record 31 times. That's a new all-time high about every four trading days or so. And the rare matchup of two incumbents in November could have something to do with this.

CNN's Matt Egan has been looking into it. This is pretty interesting. So the stock market is off to a wild start. What is it with the election year? How is it related?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Kate, if investors were nervous about this election they've got a really funny way of showing it, right? Because the S&P 500 is already up 15 percent and the year is not even half over. Goldman Sachs says that amounts to the best start to an election year ever. And Goldman notes that a good first half often leads to a very good second half of the year.

So this is really good news for everyone who has got money in the market, right? Either directly, they own stocks or indirectly in their 401(k)s or college saving plans. Their mutual funds.

And it could even be good for the economy because higher stock prices can boost confidence, right?

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

EGAN: If you open up your 401(k) account and you see the value has gone up, maybe you're going to go take that vacation or buy that car, go out to eat. Same thing for CEOs. Maybe they're going to hire those workers and open that facility because they see their share price is up.

And listen, history does show that presidential elections tend to be good ones for the stock market -- in particular, when there's an incumbent running for reelection, because investors like stability. And you mentioned this is the first time since the late 1800s where you have two major party nominees who --

BOLDUAN: Right.

EGAN: -- who previously have been in the White House. So maybe that is part of this.

But there's also a lot of other factors that have nothing to do with the election that help explain why we've seen 31 record highs for the S&P 500 so far this year. Some of those factors -- the AI boom, right? We've seen NVIDIA and other stocks go to the moon --

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

EGAN: -- although even NVIDIA has started to come back recently. Corporate --

BOLDUAN: It was bound to.

EGAN: It was bound to.

Corporate profits, though, have never been higher. Inflation is cooling without that long-rumored recession. And investors are still betting on, potentially, interest rate cuts from the Fed, maybe as soon as September. So you put all that together and you've got a pretty impressive start to the year.

BOLDUAN: You've got a strong start. You're laying out the factors of a strong start. But what are the risks then looking through the end of an election year?

EGAN: Sure. Well, I mean, listen, Kate, there's a fine line between optimism and complacency and you've got to wonder if markets are maybe being a little bit overly optimistic here. We haven't had a two percent selloff in the S&P 500 in 335 trading days. That is the third- longest streak in history. A two percent selloff is not even that bad, so it's weird and sort of rare to see such a long streak like this.

But there are some potential risks out there, including the fact that the market is kind of priced for perfection. There could always be cracks in the jobs market because of all those high interest rates.

And also, of course, the election itself, right? I mean, clearly, this is shaping up to be a very close contest. Some experts fear some uncertainty or maybe even a contested election. And that would, of course, hurt confidence.

But, Kate, maybe investors just aren't paying attention to the election just yet. Of course, that should change in the coming days with the debate here on CNN Thursday.

BOLDUAN: Definitely. If they're not paying attention now, they better get started soon.

It's good to see -- it's good to see you, Matt. Thank you so much.

EGAN: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Sara.

SIDNER: All right.

Things got heated inside a Florida court. I don't appreciate your tone. Tension inside the Mar-a-Lago documents hearing. The special counsel's fight to pursue a gag order against Donald Trump. We will discuss.

And a new hurdle for President Biden's student loan forgiveness plan. Why two federal courts just put a pause on Biden's effort to lower monthly payments and speed up forgiveness for millions of borrowers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:48:43]

BERMAN: This morning, federal judges in Kansas and Missouri have paused parts of the Biden administration's student loan SAVE program, which lowers monthly payments and provides a faster route to debt forgiveness for millions of borrowers. Two lawsuits filed by Republican-led states claim the administration overstepped its authority. More than eight million borrowers have enrolled in SAVE so far. The White House says it strongly disagrees with the judges' ruling.

All right. New this morning, the U.S. Surgeon General has declared firearm violence to be an urgent public health crisis. This is a first-of-its-kind advisory. He is calling on lawmakers to take action.

And the Florida Panthers have won their first Stanley Cup in franchise history. They beat the Edmonton Oilers 2-1 in game seven last night in South Florida, avoiding an epic collapse. The Panthers were up in this series 3-0 but dropped the next three games.

Now, this has to be particularly embarrassing for the New York Yankees -- still one of the only teams in sports history to drop a 3-0 lead in a series and lose that series. Of course, that year was 2004. Abject humiliation. Our condolences to the Yankees this morning -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: There was no editorial in that one from John Berman in the slightest.

[07:50:00]

Let's move on to this other big news we're watching, including the families of Israeli hostages still being held captive in Gaza. They just released a new video. In it, it shows three of the young men that are still being held hostage but being kidnapped by Hamas during the October 7 attack.

The release of this disturbing footage is really in response to the Israeli prime minister. He's facing this new anger after he suggested this weekend he was ready to agree to a temporary ceasefire in exchange for the release of some of these hostages, which appears at odds with the U.S.-backed proposal for the release of all hostages for a full ceasefire.

In an apparent swipe at Netanyahu, the group representing the hostage families said the end to fighting in Gaza without the release of all the hostages would be "an unprecedented national failure and a failure to meet the goals of the war."

CNN's Paula Hancocks in Jerusalem with much more on this. Paula, what more are you learning.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, there was certainly anger after that interview by Netanyahu. But what we have seen from the hostages' forum is that they wanted to release this footage -- difficult to watch, but they wanted to make sure that it was being talked about by world leaders. They wanted to put pressure on world leaders to try and bring the hostage home.

Now, you do see the three in the back of a pickup truck with the Hamas militants. You see they are bloodied and injured. So it is very difficult to watch.

But the parents of one of those individuals -- these individuals, Hersh Goldberg-Polin -- he's a 23-year-old Israeli American -- spoke to Anderson Cooper last night and explained why it was important that this is seen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON POLIN, FATHER OF U.S.-ISRAELI HOSTAGE HERSH GOLDBERG-POLIN: It's important that people in the world see the videos, understand what's happening -- understand what happened on October 7.

And most particularly, that leaders of the world see it. We, the families of hostages, don't need any reminders. We don't need any wakeup calls. We work 24 hours a day, seven days a week for the release of our loved ones. World leaders -- maybe they need a wakeup call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANCOCKS: And it's worth pointing out that ceasefire hostage deal is very much in limbo at this point with Netanyahu saying he accepts a partial deal. It sparked fury. He has -- or at least his office has walked that back now, saying that he is committed to the Israeli proposal that President Biden backs -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. It's still confusion surrounding all of that, especially.

Also today, Paula, I wanted to ask you about Israel's Supreme Court. They just rule that ultra-Orthodox Israeli Jews must now be drafted into the military.

What's the impact of that, and what are you hearing about this?

HANCOCKS: So, this is interesting because it is something that has been brewing for some time. The ultra-Orthodox -- the Haredis -- have been effectively exempt from mandatory military service in Israel since the founding of Israel.

So this decision by the Supreme Court today -- it's a unanimous decision -- is really a blow for the Israeli prime minister and also for the Haredi ultra-Orthodox parties, which are part of his ruling coalition. So effectively, helping keep him in power. The Supreme Court says that they should now have to be part of conscription -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: So interesting.

Paula, it's always great to see you, and thank you so much for your reporting -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Thank you, Kate.

New this morning, special counsel Jack Smith's office defending how his investigators handled classified documents found at Mar-a-Lago. In a late-night filing that included never-before-seen evidence photos, the special counsel's office claimed investigators found boxes with their contents spilled all over the floor.

The new filing comes as Judge Aileen Cannon prepares for a third day of hearings in this case.

CNN's Evan Perez is outside the courthouse in Florida. He has been in that court watching these proceedings. Evan, these pictures and the -- and the conditions found in the search are expected to be part of today's hearing.

What are you expecting to hear today?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Sara. Look, this is a reminder from the special counsel -- from the prosecutors I think to remind the judge of exactly the condition that they found these documents when they got to Mar-a-Lago back in August of 2022. One of the things that the prosecutors write in this filing -- they say Trump personally chose to keep documents containing some of the nation's most guarded secrets in these cardboard boxes.

And you can see -- I think we'll show you a couple of these. You'll see a photograph -- some photographs that were taken by Walt Nauta, one of the -- one of the co-defendants -- one of the former president's co-defendants. And you see the condition in which he found the boxes when he went down there to take a look before he was moving them to the former president's personal residence.

And also, you can see in some additional photographs there's a -- there's a -- there's a -- there's a thank-you note that the former president had written to some families of Sandy Hook, and another one that shows you some of the other knick-knacks that he was storing along with these -- with these documents.

[07:55:11]

Now, part of the argument that the former president is making in court today is that because the order of documents was disturbed -- it was changed -- that this harms his ability to defend himself. And, of course, prosecutors are pushing back, saying look, this is not a pristine filing system that you're seeing right there in those photographs, Sara.

SIDNER: All right. And I do want to ask you about the gag order that the prosecutors are asking for. The judge --

PEREZ: Yeah.

SIDNER: -- seemed to be pretty skeptical about this, correct?

PEREZ: Yeah. It doesn't look like that she's going to be granting that any time soon.

I think one of the things that you heard in court yesterday, she wanted the prosecutors to sort of directly connect some of the former president's comments. He's been saying things like, for instance, that his life was put in danger during that search. Mind you, he was not in Mar-a-Lago. He was not in Florida when that search happened.

And so, what prosecutors are saying is that this puts these law enforcement people in danger. Perhaps these people are going to be witnesses.

And what the judge was saying is look, we don't have enough evidence yet. And so, it looks like she will simply say let's wait and see before we make a restriction on the former president like this.

SIDNER: Evan Perez, I know you'll be watching all the developments today. Thank you so much. That hearing could get underway any time. Appreciate it -- John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now, former deputy assistant attorney general, Tom Dupree. Counselor, great to see you here.

A lot of motion, I would say, going on down in Fort Pierce, Florida, but it doesn't seem like a lot of movement forward. What do you see?

TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: I see a lot of motion, too. Look, Judge Cannon has shown that she's someone who likes to have lawyers arguing in her courtroom. There are some judges who decide cases on the papers and the briefs. Judge Cannon is not one of them.

This is unusual in my experience that she would hold what looks to be three pretty much full days of hearings -- legal arguments, constitutional arguments presented to her by the lawyers to make sure she gets it right. I think part of it is that she wants to make sure that she understands these issues. She's relatively new to the bench. These are complicated issues. But, of course, one consequence of all of this is that it does delay the proceedings substantially.

BERMAN: Are they really complicated or are they really in question, I should say? Is the predominance of legal thinking right now -- do they think that it's a toss-up in any of these?

DUPREE: Well, on the independent counsel challenges, those are arguments that I do think are complicated. To be fair, they are arguments that have been made before unsuccessfully. Defendants commonly challenge the qualifications, the service ability of the independent counsel and fail.

I think she wants to kick the tires a little bit on this and make sure she understands the law. She invited amicus participation, meaning not parties to the case. Look, she --

BERMAN: Yeah, anyone else want to comment on these?

DUPREE: Parties that come in and law professors, and others that come in and argue before her. Again, all very unusual. But this is an unusual case.

BERMAN: And she seemed to be frustrated with the prosecution, repeatedly telling them she didn't like their attitude. DUPREE: Oh, absolutely. That was one of the most striking things from

yesterday's hearing is that the prosecutors came in. They presented their arguments as to why the gag order on Trump should be expanded. And somewhat surprisingly, Judge Cannon went after the prosecutors for adopting an inappropriate, in her view, tone toward her. And it ultimately led the prosecutors to actually apologize to her.

BERMAN: But look, the prosecutor -- this isn't a mystery to them anymore. They know how Judge Aileen Cannon views them and maybe views this case. So how should that color how they go forward?

DUPREE: Well look, I think they have to understand what they're dealing with here. They are not going to deal -- they are not dealing with the judge that generally sees their case favorably and they have to act accordingly. I think that they are making the motions because they do have a legitimate concern that former President Trump's comments were placing the safety of FBI agents in danger.

They had to make those arguments. They presented them. I think they learned a little bit of a lesson in that they are going to probably try to tone back the approach that they take with this judge because she doesn't like it when they get aggressive with her. But these are the arguments the prosecutors have to make.

BERMAN: One of the things the defense is going to try to do is get Evan Corcoran, who was a lawyer for Donald Trump, his notes tossed. Likelihood of success here?

DUPREE: My sense is that those notes probably will come in in some way, shape, or form. Look, the Trump team is defending this case very aggressively and they have benefitted from many rulings from Judge Cannon favorable to them. Not all of them, but a lot of them.

I suspect they are going to push hard to get the Corcoran stuff out. My guess is that Cannon probably will let some of it in, but she may well exclude parts of it.

BERMAN: And just in general, given how Cannon has behaved so far, if you're the defense, why wouldn't you make a motion on anything and everything under the sun?

DUPREE: You absolutely would. I mean, look, you make these arguments as a defendant in hopes that maybe you get the Hail Mary pass. You strike gold. She's going to throw the case out. Why not make it?

What's interesting here is that she does seem to be giving very careful consideration to arguments that have been made before and have been pretty much universally rejected.

BERMAN: It seems like you get a hearing on anything almost no matter what here.

Tom Dupree, Dupree's Diamond Blues (PH), great to see you. Thank you --

DUPREE: Thanks. BERMAN: -- very much -- Kate.