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President Biden and Donald Trump Prepare for Their First Presidential Debate of 2024 Campaign Season; Pollster Frank Luntz Interviewed on Proven Techniques Candidates Use in Debates that Affect Voter Opinion; 41-Year-Old Chicago Woman Missing Since Last Week in Bahamas; Alex Jones' Bankruptcy Trustee Plans to Shut Down Infowars, Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired June 25, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Great to see you. Thank you very much. Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Now two days until President Biden and Donald Trump take the stage in the CNN debate. And today there is new reporting about the advice and warnings coming from Biden advisers -- to win don't focus on your record. Focus on his failures.

And the surgeon general of the United States declaring gun violence a public health crisis. This move, one of the strongest tools his office has. The surgeon general is our guest.

And a family is desperate for answers this morning after a woman disappears while attending a yoga retreat in the Bahamas. New details on the search.

I'm Kate Bolduan with Sara Sidner and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: T-minus two days to CNN's historic debate, and the countdown right now is entering a critical window with President Biden hunkered down at Camp David and facing a flurry of new advice. Our new reporting this morning, advisers outside Biden's campaign are urging him to not talk about his own first-term policies on the debate stage, but instead focus on going after former President Donald Trump. Today, a new attack ad from Biden's team he was taking direct aim at Trumps economic plans.

Also this morning, the only person who has ever debated both men is sharing her list of dos and don'ts for the American people as they listened to Thursdays debate. In a brand new "New York Times" op-ed, Hillary Clinton told voters, "when you see these two men side-by-side, think about the real choice in this election. It's between chaos and competence."

As for Donald Trump, he is in Florida today doing debate prep his way.

We are closely covering both campaigns. First, Arlette Saenz is live outside the White House for us. What is the latest from the Biden team?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, President Biden's debate preparations went late into the evening as he and his team are really trying to use every last minute to prepare for the showdown against Donald Trump on Thursday. Now, Biden's advisers have signaled there are three areas where they want to really draw a contrast with Trump on the debate stage. That includes abortion, democracy, and the economy.

And CNN has learned that outside advisers have been giving the president and his team advice when it comes to making their economic arguments. Sources have said that they have relayed to the Biden team that they believe that Biden should focus less on taking a victory lap about his own economic accomplishments and focus more or on drawing that contrast, going on offense and attacking Trump's vision for the economy.

It comes as they are urging Biden to really try to tie Trump to corporate America while also highlighting the inflationary nature of some of his economic plans. Part of the concern is that Biden's record at times, while he has been very quick to try to promote it, it just isn't something that's sunk in with voters just yet, with many still harboring very deep reservations about the state of the economy and how the president has handled it.

Now, the Biden campaign today is really trying to lean into their economic arguments, releasing this new ad trying to portray the former president as someone who is only looking out for himself and not the American people. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump loves to attack Joe Biden.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Joe Biden.

Joe Biden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because he's focused on revenge, and he has no plan to help the middle-class. He'd just give more tax cuts to the wealthy.

Here's the difference. Donald Trump is only out for himself. Joe Biden is fighting for your family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: And the president's team is also once again attacking the former president for his recent criminal convictions. Michael Tyler, the communications director for the campaign, said in a statement, quote, "The American people deserve better than a white color crook who is only in it for himself. That's why they fired Donald Trump in 2020. And it's why Joe Biden will beat him again in November."

So the campaign is starting to preview some of the possible attack lines that President Biden could lob Trump's way in this debate as the two men prepare to face off for the first time since 2020.

SIDNER: All right, thank you, Arlette.

Alayna Treene, how is Trump spending his day? I know he has been spending some time talking about and making fun of President Biden, who is hunkered down studying for the debate.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Donald Trump and his team are trying to draw a sharp contrast with the debate preparations. So unlike Joe Biden, Donald Trump has been pretty active on the trail. We saw over the weekend he was at a rally in Philadelphia. He also spoke at a Christian conservative conference in Washington D.C. Yesterday, he went to a fundraiser in New Orleans. Today and tomorrow, he will be at Mar-a-Lago. I'm told he will continue to have some of those policy discussions that his team is really dubbing as their version of debate prep.

[08:05:00]

He has the debate on Thursday. After that, he will fly directly to Virginia and stay overnight at his golf club in Sterling. And then Friday, he has as a rally in Virginia. But look, and Arlette touched on this a little bit, but Donald Trump and his team, they also do not know which version of Donald Trump is going to show up on the debate stage on Thursday. I know from my conversations with Trump's advisers that they have been arguing and trying to push him to walk away from some of the aggressive rhetoric we've seen him use in past debates, particularly that first debate with Biden in 2020 where he barely let Joe Biden get a word. And we kind of saw Donald Trump be impacted by that negatively in the polls following that debate.

And so what they've been doing is really having these, I'm told more than a dozen policy discussions with lawmakers, potential vice presidential contenders, former Trump administration officials with Donald Trump to hone in and sharpen his rhetoric on many of the topics that Arlette laid out about the economy, abortion, American democracy. And they really want Donald Trump to focus on specific policy issues, particularly those like the economy, immigration, and crime, that they think he polls higher at.

Now, we did here, Donald Trump touch on a bit how he thinks he is preparing. Take a listen to how we put it in a podcast interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: How are you preparing? I'm preparing by taking questions from you and others, if you think about it. But I'm preparing by dealing with you. You're tougher than all of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, Sara, I will say that Donald Trump saying that he's taking these questions from people, I'd argue that we did see that over the weekend in Philadelphia. It was a friendly crowd. He is speaking with different media hosts, again, I'd argue friendly interviewers. But they are still, of course, doing their homework behind the scenes and trying to prepare for this. They recognize how much of a high-stakes debate that they are going to be on on Thursday.

And so I think behind the scenes they're going to continue to be sharpening their messages, similar to what Biden is doing, just not calling it that. Sara?

SIDNER: Understood, Alayna Treene. And Arlette Saenz, thank you to both of you. Kate?

BOLDUAN: So Hillary Clinton doling out her debate advice this morning. We heard Sara talking about that. Arlette talking about debate advice coming at president -- coming to President Biden from outside advisers. But what about lessons learned from the view of the voter, from a man who studied debates for 30 years and gaged voter reaction at nearly every general election showdown since night 1992? I'm talking about Frank Luntz, the longtime pollster and communication strategist writing this in part in a piece for "The New York Times," "I've sat with small groups of voters, selected from pools of thousands of undecided voters nationally, watching more than two dozen presidential and vice presidential debates in real time. And it still amazes me that miniscule moments, verbal miscues, and misremembering little details can matter so much in the spin room and to partisan pundits afterward. Yet those things often have little to no discernible impact on the opinions of many people watching at home."

Frank Luntz is here with me now. It's always good to see you, Frank. Thanks for being here.

FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER AND COMMUNICATION STRATEGIST: By the way, the pundits are not happy with that.

BOLDUAN: Really?

LUNTZ: Yes, a couple of them took a couple shots at me because they think that their views matter more than the voters themselves.

BOLDUAN: We know that's not true.

LUNTZ: And we know that voters look at things differently.

BOLDUAN: So what is then, it begs the question, if those don't have a discernible impact, what does have a discernible impact? What do you consider -- I don't know if there's a most consistent lesson learned when you're sitting with voters watching these debates in real time.

LUNTZ: Be likable. Be funny. Be specific. Answer the question. Don't go over the time limit. I don't know if that actually made it into the piece, but it really agitates people. When the bell rings, they expect you to shut up, and that does not happen. And nobody realizes that voters really get angry if you go on and on and on. Donald Trump lost that first debate against Joe Biden because he never stopped.

Now, Biden himself could have been really punished for saying to the president, you've got to shut up. No one has ever said that to a president of the United States before. Trump didn't get away with it. Suburban, undecided middle-class women looked at this guy and said, you know what, he doesn't remind me of my first husband. He reminds me of my first husband's lawyer. It was too much. It was too loud. Trump in the second debate was much more effective and he had a much better response.

BOLDUAN: Also you highlight in your commentary some of the moments in debates past that you think had a real impact in shaping voter opinion afterward. Let me play some of those moments. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: -- who stand there in the polling place and make a decision. I think when you make that decision, it might be well if you would ask yourself, are you better off than you were four years ago?

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We need fundamental change in this country, and that's what I'd like to bring.

[08:10:00]

You've confirmed once again the fundamental decency and generosity of the American people. And that's why I'm sure that our brighter days are still ahead.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: If I win, I am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our country.

TRUMP: Because you'd be in jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: What is it about these moments? What is it about those moments you think struck a chord and had such an impact? What does this represent?

LUNTZ: Because nobody expected Donald Trump to say that. And the pundits really condemned him for doing it. And our voters said, wait a minute. He's holding her accountable. It's about time that politicians are held accountable. That's one of the great frustrations in America. It's why we're so angry, because we think politicians will say and do anything, and then actually do exactly the opposite of what they promised.

BOLDUAN: Even if he's -- even if he would be -- even if he's kind of suggesting he would be like directing his Justice Department to go after a political opponent?

LUNTZ: And that's exactly what the pundits said. And the voters, he's actually going to do this. I want someone who is that tough who is going to look me straight in the eye. And the opposite was, Barack Obama, looking at people and saying I get

you, I understand you, I appreciate you, I applaud you. Voters are looking for someone to speak to them, to look at them, to mean what they say, say what they mean, and do what they promised to do.

BOLDUAN: Hillary Clinton is out today with a piece talking about her lessons learned, if you will, from her debate experience, as she says, she's the only person to have been on a debate stage debating both of these men. She said at one point, "It's a waste of time to try to refute Mr. Trump's arguments like in a normal debate. It's nearly impossible to identify what his arguments even are. He starts with nonsense and then digresses into blather."

She also speaks to, in this piece, the expectations that people may have going in to debate. What role does voters' expectations have on the success or failure of a candidate in a debate, have you learned?

LUNTZ: A lot. And the Trump campaign really, really attacked Biden, saying you can't complete a sentence, you can't complete a thought. The expectations for Joe Biden are so low, just as they were for George W. Bush in 2000. One reason why they taught Bush beat Al Gore, even though Gore was better on substance, is because Bush was able to put together a coherent, powerful argument. Voters were expecting nothing, and they got a lot.

Because of Donald Trump, voters aren't expecting much from Joe Biden. And if he's able to demonstrate that he is still presidential, he's still got it, he still is passionate about what he's doing, and not what he's done. One last thing I'd like to say, it's not just about your record over the last four years. It's about what you're going to do over the next four. If he can show that, then he's going to exceed the expectations that Trump mistakenly set for him.

BOLDUAN: You make in this point at the end. "In the end, it's not the facts, the policies, or even the one-upmanship that Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump offer in the debate that matters. It's how they make voters feel." And that seems -- to me, that seems really the biggest challenge. How do you -- speaking to people's emotions and impacting people's emotions, how does any candidate plan for that going into a debate?

LUNTZ: Because they have to know what emotion they're trying to appeal to, and that's the right question. Look, I don't smile enough. I'm actually a relatively happy person, but I don't show it on camera. It's a mistake for me.

Trump shows that he's going to fight for voters. He is successful in that. Does Joe Biden have that same fight in him? Does he have that same commitment in him? Does he have the energy that Trump has? People believe that Joe Biden is more trustworthy, is more -- has more integrity. That's not the argument here. The argument is, what am I going to do over the next four years on affordability? By the way, not inflation, affordability, immigration. What am I going to do to make your day-to-day life better? Whichever one makes that point is the one who wins the debate.

BOLDUAN: We will see it together. And you will with voters once again. It's good to see you, Frank. Thank you so much.

LUNTZ: Thank you for having me.

BOLDUAN: And a reminder, President Biden and former President Trump will face off for their first debate of the 2024 election right here on CNN. Dana Bash, Jake Tapper, they will be moderating, all happening live this Thursday, 9:00 p.m. eastern. John?

BERMAN: An urgent search is underway for an American woman who went missing in the Bahamas. New developments on the investigation.

This morning, a reckoning for conspiracy theorist Alex Jones. New details on what he will have to give up in order to pay the $1.5 billion he owes for defaming families who lost children in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.

And we are standing by as a major U.S. dam is on the brink of collapse. Officials say the dam is in imminent failure condition as new rain this morning could be the final straw.

[08:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: The family of a Chicago woman missing in the Bahamas is pleading for her safe return. Forty-one-year-old Taylor Casey was last seen in the area of Paradise Island on Wednesday. She was on a yoga retreat.

Her disappearance comes as the State Department has issued a Level Two Travel Advisory for Americans in the Bahamas.

CNN's Lucy Kafanov is with us with the latest. What are you hearing -- Lucy.

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, for Taylor Casey's family this morning, there is deep concern, fear, and also determination to get answers as Casey's mother, Colette Seymore, tells CNN that she actually plans to travel to the Bahamas today to help with the search for her daughter and to coordinate with the police there.

Her mother adding, Taylor would never disappear like this.

[08:20:21]

But here is what we know so far, John: 41-year-old Taylor Casey had traveled to the Bahamas specifically to Paradise Island, which is just off the coast of Nassau. It is a popular tourist area, famous for its pristine beaches, its clear turquoise waters. That is where she was last seen on June 19th. This is according to the Royal Bahamas Police Force missing persons flier.

According to Taylor's families, she had been practicing yoga for about 15 years and she traveled to the Bahamas to attend the Sivananda Ashram Yoga Retreat to "fulfill a long-term goal of deepening her practice." And I believe we have video of the yoga retreat, Bahamas property. It

is a beautiful beach front location where you could get your yoga teacher certification. You can also just come to practice.

There are classes, meditation, spiritual tox and so forth. The retreat confirming to me this morning, the disappearance of Casey Taylor, who they said was indeed participating in a yoga certification retreat, and they've asked the police to help investigate.

They wrote and I quote: "Miss Casey's disappearance was discovered on June 20th when she failed to attend morning classes. The last time that she was seen at this retreat was late on the evening of June 19th."

Now, despite this being a popular tourist destination, the State Department in January did issue a travel advisory for Americans heading to the Bahamas, to be aware at that time of 18 he murders that occurred just in January alone.

Meanwhile, Casey's family pleading with the public for help. They write: "We are deeply concerned for Taylor's safety and well-being. We love Taylor and we want her home" -- John.

BERMAN: Hopefully, we will get some good news.

Lucy Kafanov, thanks so much for being with us -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right, coming up, three drag performers are headed to Capitol Hill. Why they say their visit is crucial to protecting LGBTQ rights.

Plus, is Boeing about to face criminal charges for safety issues surrounding its aircraft? New details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: "Shut down and sold off," according to a new bankruptcy filing, that is what is in store now for Infowars, the longtime media platform of conspiracy theorist, Alex Jones.

Earlier this month you'll remember, a bankruptcy judge ruled that Jones' personal assets would be liquidated to help pay the $1.5 billion in lawsuit judgments that Jones owes for repeatedly calling the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting a hoax.

CNN's Hadas Gold has much more on this latest move.

I mean, it has been a long road getting here, but is this the end of the road for Alex Jones and Infowars?

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are getting closer to the end of the road, but there is still some time.

Jones himself said during that earlier court hearing that he expected Infowars to last a few more months, maybe five more months maximum, but we weren't entirely sure what this court appointed trustee who had been put in charge of Infowars' parent company would necessarily do because Alex Jones himself is in personal liquidation and his assets which includes Infowars' parent companies are also part of this liquidation and a court-appointed trustee was put in charge of it.

But Sunday evening, we saw this emergency filing filed by the trustee and that is when he laid out what he plans to do and he said he plans to have an orderly wind-down process and a sale.

Now, the reason that this emergency filing was filed was actually because one of the parents, one of the families of one of the kids who were killed in Sandy Hook living in Texas, they filed a motion trying to go after this Free Speech Systems assets because they themselves, just that family is owed $50 million themselves.

But this trustee is saying, hey, can we freeze this process to make sure that everybody gets their fair share? We are expecting to hear from the judge on this this week about whether that will be frozen.

Jones himself has claimed that there are things happening behind the scenes. He is saying don't believe everything you hear, but he has said something that is true. He said, listen, Infowars is just a building and my crew and a name and overall, it is me and that's true.

Because even if Infowars is shutdown in five months, nothing is preventing Alex Jones from continuing to speak and spreading his lies and spreading his conspiracy theories. In fact, he is still talking about Sandy Hook. He does admit that Sandy Hook happened, but he is claiming being that this whole lawsuit is some sort of plot by the government.

Nothing is preventing him from doing that. He still has his First Amendment free speech rates. The only thing that would prevent him from talking about Sandy Hook is a settlement, a settlement with the families. That so far has failed to materialize.

So even if Infowars is shut down, he can go on whatever platform that will still have him, think about people like Tucker Carlson who he has already had several events with, he has been on air with -- any of those people could take him. He could still spout his lies.

But here is the thing: Any money that Alex Jones makes likely for the rest of his life will go to these families because $1.5 billion is a lot of money. He doesn't have nearly that amount of money either in his personal assets or within Infowars.

So even as he continues spouting his lies, at least we know that hopefully the families will start seeing some money because these families have seen not a single cent so far.

BOLDUAN: So not a single cent so far.

Hadas, thank you for the update -- John.

BERMAN: All right, for the first time in US history, the surgeon general is declaring gun violence a public health crisis. Why he says we don't have to live this way. And this morning, more than two dozen people missing after the

wildfires in New Mexico forced an entire town to evacuate. We are standing by as rescue teams search the rubble.

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