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Supreme Court Mistakenly Posts Draft Opinion On Idaho Abortion Case; Inside The CNN Debate: What Happens When Candidates Interrupt; Kenyan Police Fire Tear Gas As New Protests Get Underway. Aired 7:30- 8a ET

Aired June 27, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, economists at Bank of America say the housing market will be, in their words, "stuck" until 2026 or later, and they expect already sky-high rates in home prices to keep on climbing.

CNN's Matt Egan is here with the latest -- Matt.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, John, unfortunately, Bank of America does expect this housing market to remain stuck until 2026 or even later. It's a sobering forecast because we know a lot of Americans would like to buy right now but they can't, right, not at these prices and these mortgage rates.

Three reasons why Bank of America is saying that it is going to stay this way for years to come.

One, they're saying that prices are going to go even higher this year and next. They say that even if the Fed cuts interest rates there's probably not going to be much relief when it comes to mortgages, and that's a big problem because it means we're probably stuck with what's known as the lock-in effect.

If you move right now -- if you own a home and you move, you can obviously take your furniture, but you can't take that ultra-low mortgage rate. So for a lot of people it just doesn't make any sense to move. And that's a big problem because it limits how much supply is on the market.

Bank of America's top economist Michael Gapen -- he told me that it will take -- this will take many years to work itself out. He said, "There isn't a magic fix."

Now, if Bank of America is right -- and there's no guarantee that they are -- it means no relief on the affordability front. We know that housing affordability took a huge hit over the last two years. The lower that blue line is the least affordable that this housing market is. And right now, I mean, this is the most unaffordable housing market that we've seen since the 1980s. And unfortunately, Bank of America is saying no relief is coming -- John.

BERMAN: It just takes away choice is what it does more than anything else.

Matt Egan, great to have you this morning. Thank you very much.

EGAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Still ahead, inside the debate hall. We'll show you exactly how this will play out with Donald Trump and Joe Biden in the room tonight. The demonstration CNN gave the campaigns brought straight to you.

And soon, will today be the day the Supreme Court drops their decision on presidential immunity? And what yesterday's accidental release of a forthcoming ruling on abortion may mean for the future of abortion in this country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:36:10]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: What are you -- your hands.

BERMAN: I look like I'm working. It's a (INAUDIBLE) shot. I wanted to look like I was doing something.

BOLDUAN: Look at my arms.

SIDNER: The bosses are watching you, John --

BERMAN: Yeah.

SIDNER: -- making sure you're on the job.

BERMAN: This is work.

BOLDUAN: John is working. We're not just having fun.

BERMAN: Right.

SIDNER: This is true. But we are drinking coffee because we need it.

BOLDUAN: All the time.

SIDNER: All right -- and I'm sure you do, too.

This morning, we're waiting for more major Supreme Court decisions to drop, but we may have already gotten a sneak peek at the high court's ruling on a pivotal abortion case.

The Supreme Court acknowledging it inadvertently and briefly posted a document on its website yesterday. The unsigned opinion indicated the court may temporarily allow abortions in medical emergencies in Idaho. In other words, leaving it status quo. It was swiftly removed but the justices are weighing a challenge by the Biden administration to Idaho's near total abortion ban. CNN medical correspondent Meg Tirrell joining me now. Give us some sense of when this decision comes down -- and if it is the same as what we saw on that document -- how this impacts -- would impact access to abortion.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, what this does is -- if it is the actual official opinion and whether we get that today or tomorrow or next week -- this would send this back to the lower courts in Idaho. But while it does that it would put back into effect the ability of hospitals in Idaho to provide abortions in emergency situations when it is deemed necessary to preserve the health of the pregnant patient.

At issue in this case was whether Idaho's strict abortion ban, which provided an exception for the life of the person who is pregnant but not the health of the pregnant person -- whether that conflicted with a federal law called EMTALA, which requires that hospitals provide stabilizing care to all patients.

The Supreme Court, if this decision ends up being final, didn't actually weigh in on that. What they did was say this shouldn't have gotten up to the court, actually, and we're going to send it back down to the lower courts. But while we do that, we're going to allow these hospital emergency abortions to continue if needed. However, that's going to work its way through the courts.

And so, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, in this document that was posted, said this isn't a victory for pregnant patients in Idaho; this is a delay.

Also, legal scholars are looking to what this means for other states. Essentially, nothing. There is a similar challenge going on in Texas right now.

I was talking with Elizabeth Sepper at the University of Texas at Austin, and she was saying the Biden administration has a challenge to that case. They've asked the Supreme Court to look at it.

So we could see this get back up to the court, whether it's Idaho, whether it's Texas.

Also, we know that the court had a second case on medication abortion they also tossed out on standing.

So the court is really not focused on delivering opinions here that deal with these issues, guys -- particularly, as we approach an election.

Back to you.

SIDNER: Yes -- not to deal directly with the issues, which indicates that these cases can come back up again in some other form potentially.

Meg Tirrell, thank you so much. Appreciate you -- Kate. BOLDUAN: Let us show right now another live look inside the CNN debate hall where in just hours, President Biden and Donald Trump will square off.

The choreography and rules of every presidential debate are important. This time, it includes something that's never been done before in presidential debates. The candidates' mics will be muted when it's not their designated turn to speak. Both campaigns have agreed to all of the terms of this debate.

CNN's Phil Mattingly and Victor Blackwell have a walk-through for you on how this all will work on that stage tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to the site of the CNN Presidential Debate. We want to give our viewers a sense of the rules of the debate so that when they watch it, they can understand how President Biden and President Trump will be engaging with each other.

Just after 9:00 p.m. Eastern, President Biden will enter from the right side of your screen. President Trump will enter from the left side of your screen.

The podiums are eight feet apart. Directly across from them, the moderators, CNN's Jake Tapper and Dana Bash.

Now, a reminder. This is a television studio. There's no audience.

[07:40:00]

Candidates will have two minutes to answer questions and one minute for responses and rebuttals. At the moderators' discretion, there may be an additional minute for follow-ups, clarifications, or responses.

So how does a candidate know how much time is left to speak? Attached to the cameras in the studio and in the candidates' field of view are the timing lights. When the lights show yellow there are 15 seconds left in a candidate's answer or response. When the lights flash red there are five seconds left. And when the display is solid red, the time is up. At that point, the candidate's microphone will be turned off and the other candidate will have their microphone turned on.

My colleague, Victor Blackwell, has more on that.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Phil.

If we go behind the podiums you can see two green lights. When they're on they signal to the candidate his microphone is on. When the green lights are off, they signal to the candidate his microphone is off.

Now I want to give you a sense of what it will look for viewers at home if the candidate whose microphone is off interrupts a candidate whose microphone is on. So I'm standing at one podium, and I'll ask Phil to come in and take the other podium. And so let's say I'm answering a question. My light is green and I'm

speaking. Phil's microphone is off, and his green lights are not illuminated. He's going to interrupt me as I'm speaking and this is what it will sound like.

MATTINGLY: (Interruption difficult to understand).

BLACKWELL: My volume remains constant while Phil's interruption can be difficult to understand.

MATTINGLY: Now, let's try the opposite. My microphone is now on. Victor's microphone is off. And he is going to interrupt me.

BLACKWELL: (Interruption difficult to understand).

MATTINGLY: My volume remains constant while Victor's interruption can be difficult to understand.

We should note by agreeing to participate in this debate both campaigns and candidates have also agreed to abide by these rules.

The CNN Presidential Debate airs live at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: And it is worth repeating that demonstration has been shared and shown to both candidates and their teams. There will be no surprises in terms of that when they walk on the stage tonight.

BERMAN: With me now, CNN political commentator -- senior political commentators Van Jones and David Urban, as well as CNN host and political commentator Michael Smerconish. What a group you have here right now.

So what I want to do if I can, I want to have an open "Battle Royale" melee in a second. But I want to go down the line with some very specific short questions to each one of your first, OK?

Van, let me start with you. What's the best thing that could happen for Joe Biden tonight?

VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: For Donald Trump to be Donald Trump. For him to do his normal crazy stuff. For him -- for Biden to be able to provoke him into breaking with this pretense of being presidential tonight and go nuts.

BERMAN: What's the worst thing that could happen to Joe Biden tonight?

JONES: Well, you know, he could have a senior moment. And the thing is --

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: He could be himself. JONES: No, no, no. And the thing is that it won't be forgiven. People have senior moments all the time. I say dumb stuff all the time. But if he does something that's more than usual, that could be very bad for him.

BERMAN: David Urban, what's the best thing that could happen for Donald Trump tonight?

URBAN: Yeah. So the president that showed up in the second debate in 2020 -- if that guy shows up tonight, he gets the W.

BERMAN: What's the worst thing that could happen to Donald Trump tonight?

URBAN: The president from the first debate shows up tonight.

BERMAN: There is --

JONES: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- broad agreement right there. Actually, not even broad.

JONES: Yeah, yeah.

BERMAN: Specific agreement between you two.

OK, Michael Smerconish. You're batting clean-up here. What's the best thing that could happen to the American people tonight?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Uh, that we see an A-game from each of them, and that we get to see both of them not only in terms of that which they say -- the substance -- but the way in which they comport themselves.

I maintain that more important tonight is how each of them says it rather than what they say. Because for Trump, you're looking at his temperament, and for Biden, you're looking at his mental acuity. So I don't think it's going to be a function of reading the transcript tomorrow but, rather, you could almost watch it muted and get a vibe for how each of them is performing.

BERMAN: And then finally, Michael, what's the worst thing that could happen for the American people tonight?

SMERCONISH: Uh, probably that it's just a slugfest and that we learn nothing. That despite the fact that the microphone is being muted -- by the way, I'm not a fan of that and I could explain -- but that we learn nothing. I think that would be the worst thing for America.

BERMAN: All right, this is the "Battle Royale" part of this panel that I promised here.

Michael, since you just teed it up, talk to us about your feelings -- spill.

SMERCONISH: So I like the crosstalk. I don't like it overdone. But I think that Donald Trump was held accountable in that Chris Wallace debate. So I don't want it to be too stayed of an affair. I'm all for civility -- I think you know that -- but I don't want them to be totally thwarted in having a free flow of ideas.

So I loved that demonstration because I wondered how is it going to function. I have a colleague -- my producer, who is eight feet away from me right now -- I'm looking at her -- T.C. -- and she speaks often when her mic -- she's speaking right now.

So the candidates are still going to hear one another and how that dynamic plays out is most interesting to me.

URBAN: Yeah, so, you know, it -- what Michael said earlier about the visuals, right -- you could turn it off and almost watch it.

[07:45:04]

If you look at the debate back -- that 2020 debate when the last time these gentlemen were both on the stage together, you look at Joe Biden he's a markedly younger Joe Biden. Not just in -- not just four years younger but he looks 100 years younger. He looks more robust. He doesn't look like an old man. He's not shuffling. The gentleman we see today in the news that will come to this arena is distinctly an older man.

You remember when Barack Obama took over as president, he looked very robust and young. When he left, he looked like somebody's grandfather.

The presidency takes a toll, and it has taken a giant toll on Joe Biden. And that's -- you know, people are going to watch that -- they're going to see it -- and we're going to see who shows up.

BERMAN: I'm not laughing at what you said. I'm only laughing because this is being said by a man wearing a dress Polo right now.

URBAN: Don't give away my secret. Don't give away my secret, bro. Don't give away my secret, Berman.

JONES: Well, look, I mean everybody kind of wants to focus on Biden. Look, Trump's got problems tonight as well. Trump is in a box he's never been in before. There is no audience, so that oxygen that he gets from, like, you know, dropping his insult comic stuff, there's nobody that's going to be laughing at his jokes. He's not used to that.

Number two, the mic getting cut off is going to mess him up because he loves to run over people. That's his main thing. He won't be able to do it.

Number three, he's got to pretend to be somebody he's not. He's got to pretend to be presidential. He's already said he's going to try to be a little bit more -- so he's going to be playing a role he's not used to in a format he's not used to, and his main weapon, being a bully, is taken away from him.

So both these guys got challenges tonight. BERMAN: It's so interesting, Michael, because David Urban is doing something that almost every Republican who has come on with us in the last few days has done, practically begging Donald Trump to hold back.

URBAN: No, no, no. I'm not practically begging, John, I am -- I am actually begging. It's not practically.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: This actually shouldn't be a high bar, Michael, should it?

SMERCONISH: It's so true that, like, meds could influence both of them. And by the way, I'm not playing along in thinking that one of them is on meds. But one could use a valium and the other probably could drink a Red Bull because from one you need more energy and from the other you need less. And I don't know that Trump is capable of reining it in.

I think that the Trump campaign and their enablers in the media committed political malpractice all last week by talking about the deficiencies in Joe Biden. They've set that bar so damn low that if he puts sentences together tonight -- and I expect that he will -- the people are going to say oh my God, he had such a good night. And that's why in the last 48 hours they've recast it about the CNN moderators and whether there will be any stimulant offered to Joe Biden.

What I'm saying is it's a huge game of expectations because that's what influences who you think had a good night.

BERMAN: David didn't do the working the refs thing, which is ridiculous, frankly. But David did talk about the appearance. State of the Union Joe Biden isn't exactly -- let me put it this way. State of the Union Joe Biden isn't perceived to be the way that David just described right there, is he?

JONES: Right -- no. I mean, I don't know what they're doing. I agree with brother Smerconish. They literally made it be if Biden can walk out there on his own legs without a --

URBAN: He thought it was a mirror.

JONES: Yeah. He's like you can fog the mirror and just then walk out there with a walker, then he could be president.

But I will say there is a -- there's some truth to this in that Donald Trump is a force of nature. Anybody that's been in a room with this guy -- he is a freight train. He's a grizzly bear. Anybody who can stand up to that guy for an hour and a half -- I couldn't stand up to the guy for an hour and a half -- is fit to be president. So if he's able to do it -- if he's able to put some lefts and rights together for an hour and a half against this guy, it is going to be requalifying for Joe Biden tonight.

BERMAN: And David, for all the working the refs that has gone on, you haven't done it. And it really hasn't happened here, but it's out there. It's out there. And for all the talking about the format, doesn't the issue with the microphone only being on while you're talking -- doesn't that help Donald Trump? If you're concerned about him --

URBAN: Yeah, that's --

BERMAN: -- going off, aren't you happy about this?

URBAN: I think it will enforce some discipline, right, in terms of messaging, right? You know you're -- listen, for both candidates, you get two minutes to answer these questions. That's not a heck of a lot of time. Like, two minutes. They're going to have the red light, the blinking -- you know, the blinking --

JONES: Yeah.

URBAN: -- yellow, then the red. I mean, that's a pretty quick amount of time to respond then. Another surrebuttal for a minute -- excuse me, a rebuttal, then a surrebuttal. So it's not a whole lot of time.

So I am hopeful that two-minute timeframe -- the mic getting cut off -- will force the former president to be more disciplined in his responses and really talk about the substantive issues. Because I think if he talks about the border, if he talks about crime, foreign policy, the debacle in Afghanistan -- if he can stick to those issues, right -- inflation, real wage growth -- all those issues that people in America care about, then again, he goes -- comes home with the W.

BERMAN: Look, there is an incredible opportunity for substance tonight and I think hopefully, we will see a lot of that.

Michael Smerconish, David Urban, Van Jones, "Battle Royale" discussion.

JONES: "Battle Royale."

BERMAN: "Battle Royale."

URBAN: Off the top, George "The Animal" Steele off the top.

BERMAN: I wouldn't say it. It was like open auditions for "The King and I" right now.

I appreciate being part of that. Thank you all for being here -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Dress Polo is the official dress code of this show from here on out.

(LAUGHTER)

JONES: I'm going to go get one.

BOLDUAN: It's blasphemous that you don't have one made.

[07:50:00]

URBAN: Just wear a tie.

BOLDUAN: I mean, but you're really comparing fashion with him, David Urban? Let's go.

OK, moving on. Coming up still for us, it's a homicide case that launched a thousand theories. A Boston jury is headed back into deliberations today to decide the fate of a woman charged with killing her police officer boyfriend. Her lawyers, though, say she's the real victim of a police coverup.

And also new this morning, Boeing is now blaming that midflight door plug blowout on missing paperwork. We have new details on that as CNN goes behind the scenes at one of the company's plants as it tries to bounce back from that string of safety scares.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:55:12]

BOLDUAN: New this morning, police firing tear gas at protesters during confrontations in Kenya's capital. The protesters are marching still, even after Kenya's president said he would not sign the controversial finance bill that sparked days of protests on the streets. That even turned deadly. At least 23 people -- 23 people were killed in demonstrations Tuesday.

CNN's Larry Madowo is in the streets of Nairobi, Kenya, once again. Larry, there's already been action around you. We hear it right now. What's happening?

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We just heard tear gas fired one more time. There's a lot of police on the streets of Nairobi. We're in the middle of the city here. And the police appear to be determined to make sure that there are no protesters today.

Yesterday, President Ruto, in a surprise move and an embarrassing admission, had to pull this finance bill that led to a lot of these protests over the past few weeks. But the people here say they want more than that.

I want to show you some of the scene of the action here. This is usually a busy street. I'm literally running into one of the officers. There's so many officers on the streets -- more than the protesters -- because every time they try to amass, the police throw tear gas and push them back. We just saw one over there. I'm going to try and show you what's happening there.

Kenya has also deployed the military to help the police deal with the protesters. In this case, there are no protesters here. There are literally more journalists than any of the -- any of the protesters on the streets. But the police are being extra vigilant and a little reckless in how they are throwing these tear gas canisters, sometimes directly targeting protesters instead of up in the air.

The best -- the determination, Kate, is to make sure that there are no protesters today. Many of them that I've spoken to tell me this is no longer about this controversial finance bill; it's about the high cost of living in the country. It's about President Ruto's legitimacy to run the country.

And for a lot of them, it's also about corruption, which is one of the major issues that's come up throughout this finance bill protest. Just how much money that Kenya gets in aid from the United States, for instance, in loans from the International Monetary Fund, and from other agencies that just gets stolen in that process.

So what you see here on the street is even more reinforcements back there. There's water cannons and trucks that are just getting pulled in here to try and clear the road, to clear the protesters, and keep the roads passable.

But there's all these businesses around the city. Perhaps we can show this. All these businesses are closed because they expected another day of protests.

What these protesters have called for is a one million march and they're trying to occupy the State House. That's where President William Ruto lives and works. But that's not been successful because a heavy military presence on the streets, heavy police presence, and they're trying to do everything to make sure that it's safe.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. I mean, it's amazing seeing -- you're doing such an amazing job bringing this to us, Larry, and what you've already seen in terms of the violence and these protests and the clashes with police throughout. Thank you so much for your continued reporting on this. We'll get back to you.

BERMAN: Remarkable to have him right in the middle of it.

All right. Just in, new comments from Boeing about what they say led to the door plug incident on an Alaska Airlines flight in January. Boeing claims it is due to missing paperwork. After leaving the factory, the plane flew without critical bolts to hold the door plug in place for two months.

CNN's Pete Muntean -- he had a tour of Boeing's 737 Max factory in Renton, Washington. You're standing right outside it at this moment, Pete. What have you learned?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: This inside look, John, was really significant here -- the first time that Boeing has let us into the 737 Max factory here in Renton, Washington since the January 5 door plug blowout.

Boeing executives insist that it cannot happen again. They have a four-point plan for fixes here. But they also dropped a really big bombshell on reporters here. That fateful door plug work that happened in the factory in Renton, Washington here happened without documentation. No paperwork meant workers at the end of the line did not know that work was still taking place, so that plane was essentially pulled out of the factory and flew away -- a ticking timebomb. Boeing says it has already cut down on that kind of work by half. It

is called traveling work here at Boeing. Those are the unfinished jobs that begin at one place on the production line and continue moving down the production line.

And we saw how Boeing is actually putting the brakes on that in a literal way. There was a blank in one step of the production line where the previous plane would have moved forward but it had unfinished jobs still to finish up on it.

I want you to listen now to Elizabeth Lund. She is the head of quality control here at Boeing and likely, the next CEO. We will see. And I asked her if that kind of work -- if that kind of omission that happened on the fateful door plug plane could happen again -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: How confident are you that the door plug incident -- what led to it will not happen again?

ELIZABETH LUND, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF QUALITY, BOEING: I'm extremely confident. I am extremely confident that the actions that we took have ensured that every airplane leaving this factory is safe.

[08:00:00]