Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

President Joe Biden And Donald Trump Square Off In Historic CNN Debate. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired June 27, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:41]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We're now fewer than seven hours away from CNN's presidential debate. I'm Boris Sanchez alongside Brianna Keilar at CNN World headquarters in Atlanta and very soon, President Biden is expected to arrive here in Atlanta for this highly anticipated face off with former President Trump.

Now, this is video of the presidential debate stage. And you saw CNN teams, they're putting the finishing touches.

Now, this is video of President Biden getting off of Marine One at Joint Base Andrews in route to Georgia. Trump is expected to arrive here at the debate side a few hours later.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: But before the action kicks off tonight, both campaigns have been churning out attack ads, potentially previewing the line of attacks that we may see after both candidates take the stage.

Let's bring in CNN's MJ Lee live from the CNN debate site.

All right, MJ, the Supreme Court just issued this ruling on emergency abortions in Idaho. We did get a glimpse yesterday. It is now officially out today. This could have a huge impact on the 2024 race and maybe on this debate. How is the Biden team responding?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, there's no question that reproductive rights was always going to be a top issue for President Biden heading into tonight. It is in fact one of the top three domestic issues that the campaign has made clear is really a top priority for them where they think there is political saliency, where they think they can really draw a sharp contrast between the president and the former president in addition to issues related to the economy and democracy.

And just to give you a sense of how much the Biden team is really leaning into this issue, this new campaign ad that they just released earlier, was actually already prepped, ready to be rolled out whenever the Supreme Court ruling came out. And it features a testimonial from a high-risk OB doctor in Idaho, who said that she physically left the state after treating her patients because she was afraid that she could be criminally charged. And she said that the laws in her state are barbaric, given that in a medical emergency, every second matters, take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two years ago, Trump overturned Roe v. Wade, because of the abortion bans across the country, women's lives are at risk. Physicians could be tried with a felony for saving that woman's life too early.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: And this kind of impassioned testimony from a doctor like this is kind of a familiar move from the Biden campaign at this point, they very much have leaned into the strategy of using individual voices, highlighting individual stories to paint a picture of the real world consequences of Roe being overturned.

And I think the ad and how it was rolled out is a good reminder too that for the Biden campaign, their message on this issue is going to remain the same regardless of individual legal rulings and decisions. And that is that individual rights and freedoms were taken away under Donald Trump and more could be taken away if there was a second Trump term at the White House.

SANCHEZ: And MJ, that obviously is going to be one of the lines of attack from President Biden tonight. He's been camped out at Camp David practicing for this debate now for several days. What can you tell us about the broader strategy and what his team is anticipating?

LEE: Yes, Boris, he has just boarded Air Force One, he is making his way now here to Atlanta. And really, this is the first time that we have seen him in public in days. And we have been reporting over the past week on any detail that we can find out about what's been going on at Camp David, in these debate prep sessions.

And I think what has been really clear has been the Biden team's ethos is really that they want to leave nothing to chance, they have been trying to prepare the president for really any issue under the sun that could come up and really trying to prepare the president too for any version of Donald Trump that could emerge on the debate stage tonight, an unhinged former president or a more disciplined and on message Donald Trump and including one that might be throwing insults and personal attacks, including about members of the president's family.

And, you know, they are just wanting to use tonight to make the case to the American voters that there is going to be a binary choice come November and that President Biden in their view is the only acceptable choice on election day.

[14:05:07]

KEILAR: All right, MJ Lee, thank you for that report. We'll be checking in with Kristen Holmes and the Trump campaign here in a moment.

SANCHEZ: Yes, so let's discuss tonight's historic debate and the implications with our panel of experts. Thank you so much for waiting around for us.

Gloria, this issue of abortion central to the Biden argument for reelection. How do you think this Supreme Court decision might play into the debate tonight?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think it's kind of play into it in a big way, because Joe Biden is going to make sure that abortion is front and center.

But when people watch these debates, and we've got experts here who have trained people on these -- on how to participate in them, I don't think they're necessarily looking for that one issue. They're looking for a person's character, they're looking for a person's authenticity, they're looking to see how somebody approaches the person standing next to him. How that would be president or president talks to them directly. Does he talk down to them? Does he talk directly at them? Does he appeal to them?

I mean, there are all of these kind of character issues, and they're sort of unknown. But people come away with a sense of who won. We talked about who won, who lost, people come away with a sense of, does this person deserve to be in the Oval Office? Can I live with this person for four more years? Do I want to?

And I think that's really what people are kind of looking for. Because as we've all pointed out, these are two pretty unpopular guys.

So, they have to do something to appeal to the folks who are watching, particularly those in the middle, the independent voters who may be undecided still.

KEILAR: Do you think that's right, Molly? It's not so much who they trust or who they're inspired by? But who they think they can handle as they watch these two tonight for the next four years?

MOLLY BALL, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, well, this is the depth that we've sunk to, right? It's like, can you just tolerate this person? I know you don't like them but can you just put up with them for four years?

I think Gloria is exactly right. I do think that the most successful debaters, the most successful candidates, the most successful campaigns are the ones that are able to tie the character argument to a governing argument.

And we've seen the Biden campaign start to try to do this with the ad that they released in the last week or two, right? Saying that the reason you should care that Trump is a convicted felon is because they argue he is focused on his grievances, and not on the people he's supposed to be taking care of.

And so, I think on an issue like abortion, you may see them try to do the same thing. Saying, because of what we know about Trump, because of they would argue, you know, he's not compassionate, he doesn't care about people. That is why you cannot trust him with these types of decisions. And so, you know, anything that puts abortion back on the front burner

puts it in the news, the Biden campaign feels is helpful to them even if it's a decision like this that preserves abortion access, it's another reminder of what states are doing on abortion now that, you know, in Trump's argument, he's returned to the issue to the States.

BRAD TODD, GOP MEDIA CONSULTANT AND STRATEGIST: Now, the flip side of that is, if you're Donald Trump, you have to try to have a conversation about can you trust Joe Biden with the keys to this car? He has to get in a place where we're having a living room conversation with the family about do we take grandpa's keys away?

I think that most people have gone through in their lives with older relatives, that's Biden's biggest vulnerability tonight is looking like he's not up to the job. And Trump's task is to ease into that conversation in a compassionate way that most Americans will understand without a scene bombastic.

SANCHEZ: Jamal, I'm curious what you make of that characterization?

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, they want to characterize -- the Republicans like to characterize Joe Biden as kind of an elderly grandpa.

I think most people who work with Joe Biden think of him as an elder statesman, right? Here's somebody who knows very well the mechanics of governing, they know the personalities, and how to get them done. And we've seen the evidence of that. We've seen bipartisan legislation on infrastructure and environment, on dealing with guns and cr -- like, it's all happened. He's tried to have a bill on immigration. Republicans want to attack him on immigration.

The president had a bill on immigration that was bipartisan. The reason it didn't pass was because Donald Trump blew it up, not because Joe Biden did.

So, that is the argument that I think this elder statesman who wants to preserve your freedoms and your choices, versus Donald Trump who wants to take them away.

KEILAR: But Brad, if it is -- I mean, this portrayal of Biden as an elderly grandfather, the thing that Donald Trump is so often evoked is that of the crazy uncle. And we've heard that said time and again, how does he combat that in this appearance, because it is sometimes hard for him to not give into that impulse?

TODD: Well, you know, it's funny. His rally in Philadelphia this weekend, he asked the audience as Donald Trump would be -- want to do, he polled the audience whether he should be really tough on Joe Biden, or whether he should be nice to him.

And so, you know, it's almost like Trump is weighing this whole strategic impulse of him.

KEILAR: But he's got them. They've come for his rally.

SIMMONS: Let me ask my kids, do you want ice cream or do you want (INAUDIBLE).

[14:10:02]

TODD: Of course -- of course but I think what you're seeing an --

SIMMONS: I want ice cream, ice cream, ice cream.

TODD: I think -- I think you're seeing an inner monologue for Trump on stage, right? It wasn't really about polling the crowd. This is him trying to take his strategic approach.

And if in the end, Joe Biden is at 38 percent approval, the challenger wins that election. That's how -- that's how it works.

Trump's job is to keep this on the approval of Joe Biden. And I think that that question is going to bring a little bit more discipline in Donald Trump than we've seen a lot of times.

BORGER: Right. Well, Donald Trump isn't exactly popular himself, though. And that's -- he may not be at 38 percent but he's pretty low.

And so, how can he make Joe Biden less popular without deflecting some of that to himself?

You know, he's not known for nuance. And so, how does he make people dislike Joe Biden more without disliking Donald Trump?

SANCHEZ: I'm curious, Brad, to go back to the conversation about the issue of abortion. Donald Trump has said something when speaking to Republicans specifically about the issue that I think is enlightening.

He said, go with your heart. But remember that you have to get elected. That's an issue that's tricky for Republicans and tricky for him, isn't it?

TODD: Well, Donald Trump spent most of his adult life as a pro-choice Democrat. You know, so then it's kind of ironic. Joe Biden's a Catholic who has spent much of his career pro-life, (INAUDIBLE) things are scrambled.

I think Donald Trump is going to probably end up moving the Republican Party's position in this to a liberal or moderate spot in this election. He's already said we have no federal law under his tenure.

But I think his best headed strategy is going to be to try to take that issue, the audience that matters to lower income, non-college women and talk pivoted to inflation and other concerns in their life. That'll be the key test tonight of whether he's really a master of the pivot is to go back -- take that audience that Joe Biden is targeting and go to a different issue.

SIMMONS: I just don't think Donald Trump is trustworthy on this question, right? He is the one who appointed the three justices that helped get rid of Roe v. Wade. He has also said in the past that he's for a 15 week abortion ban, which is a national abortion ban, right? Just, you're picking the number, but it's a national abortion ban. So,

now he's saying that that's not necessarily true and people -- and so, what he's arguing is, don't worry about what you actually believe, say what you need to say to win the election. That is exactly what people don't like about politics.

KEILAR: But let me ask you to play devil's advocate on that a little bit. I mean, the vast majority, more than 90 percent of abortions are performed before that point.

And then, the other thing is, when you look at this decision that became public today that we got a glimpse at yesterday, two of the justices, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett are siding with the majority.

Now, this is something that is just sort of temporary, but it keeps in place this ability to provide this abortion care. And I wonder if that allows Trump to sort of point and say, yes, you know, my appointments were not so extreme. Look what they just did. They are finding sort of a middle ground. What do you say to that?

SIMMONS: I say what the Vice President Kamala Harris says very often when asked this question, that should be a decision left between a woman, her doctor and the people that she loves and trusts and chooses to include, but not the governor -- not the government. There's no reason to have Ron DeSantis in that conversation, or Donald Trump in the middle of that conversation.

And if they -- if they believe that it's medically necessary, or if it's necessary for whatever reason the woman chooses, then that's a decision for that group of people to make. It's not a decision for government officials to make.

SANCHEZ: Partly, the response to this decision by the Supreme Court, Molly, by the Biden team included the idea that the next president might choose two Supreme Court justices. We saw Donald Trump back in 2016, quoting Evangelicals, telling them I will appoint Supreme Court justices who will overturn Roe versus Wade. How effective a promise is this for President Biden?

BALL: I think frankly, it's not that effective, just because even if you were to appoint two Supreme Court justices, which is -- which I think is pretty unlikely, you cannot change the balance of this court. This is a 6-3 conservative court.

And I -- if those two Supreme Court justices who might retire are unlikely to be two conservatives who he could nominate liberals in their place.

So, you know, in 2016, both Trump and Hillary Clinton could credibly argue that they had the ability to direct the future of the court ideologically in one direction or another.

I think the people who are making this decision on the basis of the future of the Supreme Court already know who they are voting for. I really doubt that there's a lot of Supreme Court -- there's a lot of voters out there who wake up and say, oh, I wasn't going to vote, or I didn't know who I was going to vote for. But now that you tell me that the Supreme Court either might get less -- slightly less conservative or state -- or get even more conservative, but it'll still be as conservative court. I think that's a -- that's a hard and a very abstract argument to make.

BORGER: You know, the irony here is that neither of these candidates like to talk about abortion very much. It is a huge issue. It is the best issue that Democrats have. It is an issue that has never made Joe Biden comfortable for the reasons that Brad pointed out before. It is an issue that has never made Donald Trump comfortable because he used to be pro-choice. And now he's kind of trying to find that middle ground, that real estate deal, you know, in the middle, and neither of these guys like talking about it.

[14:15:08]

But they're going to have to find a way to do that to appeal again to those voters who are still undecided about which person they're going to go with in the end, and it's not an easy conversation for these two men to have.

SIMMONS: Don't you think it raises the stakes on the vice presidential choice as well?

BORGER: Yes.

SIMMONS: Because again, you have, you know, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Well, Kamala Harris much more comfortable talking about this all the time.

And so, if Joe Biden picks -- I mean, if Donald Trump picks somebody who's doubled down on his position, he actually is not reaching out to the rest of the country where 60 something percent of the country says that they don't want the government involved in the woman's right to make any choice about our health care.

TODD: Well, we've never had an election where the Liberals voted on Supreme Court. Conservatives votes on Supreme Court all the time.

SIMMONS: I think we did in the midterm.

BORGER: Well, we did.

TODD: We've never had a presidential election where that's happened. And so, this would be the first one, it might be the first one.

But in the end, the Joe Biden's problem is already there with this issue looming over it. He's still at 38 percent. Why? Because of immigration and the economy. And so, that's what I think we'll end up talking about tonight, because he didn't fix that, there's nothing that he can say to him.

SANCHEZ: This is just one of a slew of issues that we have to get through. So, panel, please stand by. We're looking forward to engaging in more discussion after a few more breaks. I think we've got coming up later.

KEILAR: We have more, much more.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Still ahead, CNN's Kristen Holmes is standing by in the spin room for all the latest from the Trump camp. Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:21:18]

SANCHEZ: All eyes are on Atlanta as CNN prepares to host the first presidential debate of the 2024 election.

And tonight, for the first time ever, a sitting president and a former president will square off on this debate stage. It's happening before either is actually even nominated by their respective parties, making tonight even more truly historic.

KEILAR: And President Biden will be touching down just minutes from now north of Atlanta at Dobbins Air Reserve Base. Donald Trump expected to land here in a few hours.

We have CNN National Correspondent Kristen Holmes live for us in the CNN spin room. All right, Kristen, Trump is already attacking Biden on social media. He's calling him a threat to the country, perhaps a preview of what's to come later.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, and remember, Donald Trump's team is watching very closely what is coming out of Camp David, in terms of news, a lot of this a reaction to the fact that we have reported extensively from our White House team that Biden is planning to go after Donald Trump on democracy.

Now, it also shows you a little bit if you look at his social media how he's spending this day leading up to the actual debate, much of what he has been doing is criticizing cable news channels, spending a lot of time watching the actual lead up to the debate coverage.

Now, Donald Trump's allies hope that he doesn't spend a lot of time talking President Joe Biden on the stage tonight with personal vicious attack stuff. We have heard him do a relentlessly in various rallies.

But even though they want him to focus on the issues, that didn't stop the campaign from putting out this ad today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think the guy who was defeated by the stairs, got taken down by his bike, lost a fight with his jacket and regularly gets lost makes it four more years in the White House?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, as we have reported, Donald Trump's senior advisors are urging him to stay on message, focus on three things in particular, the economy and inflation, immigration as well as crime rates. They just believe looking at recent polling that he is better polling in those issues than President Joe Biden. But they are preparing him for anything.

I am told that they have gone over different answers for abortion, for democracy, and particularly his role in January 6th and how he has talked about that insurrection on Capitol Hill.

Those allies around Donald Trump, they want him to stay focused on those issues. But any one of them will tell you they do not know who will show up on tonight's debate stage and whether or not Biden can get under Donald Trump's skin, that could change the dynamic.

SANCHEZ: And to that point, Kristen, what are you hearing from sources about Trump's mentality going into tonight?

HOLMES: Well, there's a lot of skepticism as to whether or not he can stay on message. When I talk to various sources, allies, people who have spent time with him or talk to him on the phone in recent days. They say that he is very much aware of the gravity of this debate, that he knows that he has to reach specific voters and he knows that what audiences want to see, what voters want to see from him is someone who can stay on message.

But the question still remains whether or not he can actually do so. They are -- they say that they acknowledge that Donald Trump is often wanting to go off on rants, to fall back on vicious personal attacks.

But again, they have urged him to really focus just on the issues and move away from that.

KEILAR: And I know you've also talked to the Trump team about tonight's format, Kristen. How do they think this is going to impact the former president's performance?

HOLMES: Well, Brianna, we have seen such a shift from the last couple of weeks of how they have talked about this format. At first, it was a series of complaints, particularly about the fact that there was no live audience and there were muted mics.

[14:25:00]

When it came to the live audience, they said that Donald Trump could not really feed off of anything if there was no audience and he gets a lot of his energy from that live audience.

But in recent days, we've started to hear from allies who are actually looking forward to the fact that there's no live audience. Remember what we actually see in many of these rallies when he's, "feeding off of the audience." It's a lot of rambling, ranting and going off into topics like sharks or electrocution, things that his team doesn't really want to see from him today.

Again, they want him to stay on message, though there is a hope there, that not having an audience to go off of will keep him focused.

The other part of this are those muted mics. Donald Trump himself seems to have done some rare reflection during this time of debate prep. He said in one interview, that he thinks he was too aggressive with Biden, continued to interrupt him, to go after him a little too hard back in 2020.

Now, whether or not that changes his actual behavior, that'll be remained to be seen, but we're talking to these people around Donald Trump. They're hoping that the muted mics might actually help with that to not see this constant barrage of attacks, or at least hear this constant barrage of attacks from Donald Trump.

KEILAR: Kristen, we shall see. Kristen Holmes live for us from the spin room. Thank you.

And still ahead, we're going to give you a behind the scenes look inside tonight's debate hall. Stay with us for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)