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WAPO/ABC Poll: 67 Percent Say Biden Should Drop Out Of The Race; WAPO/ABC Poll; Biden & Trump Tied Despite Biden's Debate Performance; Today: Testimony Resumes In Alec Baldwin Trial; F-16 Fighter Jets Headed To Ukraine From Denmark, Netherlands; NATO Leaders Arrive For Working Sessions On Final Day Of Summit; NATO Calls China "Decisive Enabler" In Russia's War On Ukraine. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired July 11, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Add this up, it's much more to consider as lawmakers on Capitol Hill are trying to figure out what to do about Biden's candidacy still, from their perspective. A team of top Biden campaign officials are headed to the Hill today to hold a special meeting with Senate Democrats to try and calm their nerves. CNN's Lauren Fox is tracking all of this for us.

And that's not even to add in all this going on, still among House Democrats, Lauren. What are you learning?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's really been this slow drip of Democrats coming out one by one every couple of hours through the course of the last four days saying that they believe that Biden should step aside. Right now that number is right around nine members who have said that Biden should no longer be the candidate in this race. And last night, we got the very first United States senator saying that -- Peter Welch of Vermont wrote in an op- ed, "We need him to put us first, as he has done this before. I urge him to do it now." He wrote that, of course, and an op-ed in "The Washington Post."

But it just highlights, Kate, that so many members right now are paralyzed about how to move forward. There's a small number who have come out publicly, but there are many more who have publicly said that they hope Biden makes the right decision, despite the fact that Biden has made explicitly clear that he has decided to stick and stay in this race as the nominee for president. And I think that that is really Democrats trying to give him some kind of bridge to reconsider at this point. And that's really what you saw yesterday with Nancy Pelosi's comments on "Morning, Joe." And then her subsequent statement, she repeated that she hopes that Biden can make the decision quickly despite the fact that Biden has already decided.

I think, Kate, that this is a complicated moment because members aren't sure whether or not they should continue to voice these concerns. So publicly knowing that if Biden ultimately stays in this race, it could potentially put him at a disadvantage against Donald Trump. I think that that ABC poll this morning is really important. But it also is a good reminder that these state by state polls are going to matter to members who are running for reelection in places like Montana, states like Ohio. You've already heard that Sherrod Brown and Jon Tester privately in that discussion on Tuesday's lunch, said that they didn't think Biden could win. I think that these factors are all going into this race. And it's going to be really interesting to see whether or not the Biden officials, campaign officials who come to lunch today, whether they can change anyone's mind, because I will tell you, there are still a lot of doubts. Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, the state by state polls, what is the data that they can show those senators in this meeting, that that can prove otherwise, from what we heard from Michael Bennett, on CNN, which was you could take down the House and Senate with him. It's great to see you, Lauren. Thank you so much.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right with us now Republican strategist Matt Gorman and Democratic strategist Joe Trippi. While we wait for those state polls, what we do have is this brand new national poll, which still shows a tied race. But, Joe, when you break it down, you've got 67 percent of all voters, two thirds of all voters say the President Biden should drop out. Sixty-two percent of Democrats and Democratic leaning voters say he should drop out. Even 54 percent of Biden supporters, Joe, say he should drop out.

What do you make of these numbers? What does that tell you? This can't just be a least, there are 54 percent of a least in the country to fill that number right now, Joe?

JOE TRIPPI, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: What -- I mean, the differences what they're doing. I mean, in other words, they say 54 percent of his own supporters say hey, he's dropped out. They're still voting for him. That's why he's still in a dead heat with Donald Trump. And the reason for that, I think is, you know, in a different poll 53 percent -- majority of Americans were asked who's a threat to democracy, Trump or Biden, it was Trump, a majority said Trump. Fifty-three percent of Independents said Trump was a threat to the -- to democracy.

So what obviously is going on here, we've known for some time that the case against Trump is he's a threat to democracy, the case of the people been making and concerns about Biden has been his age. It's been a dead he with both those questions. Certainly the debate raised the questions about Biden up. But still in most of the national polls, because I think we are frozen in that kind of frame of the race, it's not changing much. So I agree.

The next thing here is, look, one of the things -- I don't think the press conference today is going to change much at all, either. What I do think we'll either ratchet up the pressure on the President will be what these, as members are now polling in their districts and in the states, what we're just talking about, those polls are coming back. No one was pulling over July 4 weekend, you can't do that. I mean it's like throw off the numbers. So I think what a lot of them have done is waited till after the post July 4 gone into the field.

[07:35:13] And those polls are all coming back now. And I would not -- you know, that's what's going to be reflected in this lunch today. And when -- you know, and either the pressure ratchets up that those polls come back showing big erosion. Or do they show the same thing that the race is basically stayed the same?

BERMAN: Matt, about the horse race there. I can't imagine a worse --

MATT GORMAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes.

BERMAN: -- two weeks for a candidate than the two weeks that President Biden is just that. Maybe the Access Hollywood two weeks for Donald Trump in 2016. It's been a bad two weeks, and Donald Trump is basically still tied with President Biden here. What does that tell you?

GORMAN: Look, I actually believe that voters were ahead of the pundits and elites and much of the media on this. They priced Joe Biden's age into this. If you look, there's an ABC News poll earlier this year, again, two thirds or so 70 percent folks said he was too old. I don't think there was as much of a vote or reckoning with the debate and might have calcified what they thought and maybe there's some new people, the Biden voters you talk about suddenly thrown into a panic. But I don't think all of a sudden it was a massive surprise to a lot of people that they're paying attention.

And I also think, though, that Joe's right, I think what you're seeing is folks going out of the field, Monday and Tuesday, got their results late Tuesday night, Wednesday morning, and this is where the panic started. But I guess my point is this, right, if Democrats really truly feel, right, that democracy hinges on this one election, then why are they putting up the 81-year-old man who is clearly diminished and who is working from 10 to four, essentially, according to Axios, right? Their words, their actions don't match. And so, if they change out, maybe that might say something, but right now it doesn't.

BERMAN: Well, if they change out, Joe, we happen to have a number here. Vice President Kamala Harris leads Donald Trump 49 to 46, still within the margin of error, but 49, 46 is better than down a point here. So, what they'd be better off potentially, with Harris at the top of the ticket, Joe?

TRIPPI: Well, look, I think what you're seeing is this how democracy works. I mean, this is a party that is not afraid -- doesn't pledge blind loyalty. Thirty-four -- you know, he can be convicted of 34 felony counts, be found liable of sexual abuse, lie for 90 minutes in a debate and still there's blind loyalty and they will support Donald Trump to the hilt. That's not how the Democratic Party works. No one's playing -- no one's going, you know, doubts, raising the issue, raising doubts and voicing, your seeing that, nine members and senator have already called on Biden to step aside.

That's -- I think that's healthy. I think this is a healthy party having a real debate about the future of the party. And I do -- but look, there's only one person, Joe Biden, the sides of this. Either way, I believe the party will unify and move on. And yes, we have a big strong bench.

And I -- you know, but again, we can all speculate this is going to -- I think in the few -- next few days, you're going to see either an increase in pressure as these polls come back and people under -- members of Congress, the senators understand exactly what the implications are and decide to openly -- you know, to ratchet up the tension. Or do we see it subside as it turns out like the national polls, that nothing really has changed? I don't have an answer to that. But I do -- but I'm not really concerned either way. I think we're showing -- Democrats are showing the country what it's like to have an actual party that's not afraid of its leader.

You don't have to worry about getting on a list. Joe Biden's not going to come back and get revenge on you like Trump will. No one is -- you know, Matt, and everybody can talk about this, but they're not out there. They're not going to tell you that Trump's not fit to be president. Why?

Because who the hell wants to be on that list of Donald Trump. That's not the same thing that's going on in the party right now.

BERMAN: All right, Joe Trippi, Matt Gorman, next time, Matt. Thank you both very much.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. In a matter of hours, it's happened again. This time an American woman busted in Turks and Caicos Islands since having ammunition in her luggage and now she's about to learn her sentence. While on a Mother's Day trip, Sharitta Grier got caught up in the strict laws of that territory bringing firearms or ammunition is strictly illegal in Turks and Caicos. She ended up pleading guilty to the crime.

Earlier this year, under political pressure from the U.S. after several Americans were detained for the same thing, Turks and Caicos softened the penalty, the jail time. But Grier could still face potentially a long sentence in a foreign prison. CNN's Carlos Suarez is joining us now from Miami. What is she looking at as far as potential time in jail?

[07:40:21]

CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, good morning. So Grier's attorney tells us that Sharitta is still facing the possibility of 12 years in prison, although if the case is against the other Americans or any indication rather, of how things will play out later this morning, she probably won't face additional time and custody. Grier, as you noted, she pleaded guilty to carrying ammunition into the Turks and Caicos earlier this year. She was visiting the British Overseas Territory from Orlando, Florida. And just like the other Americans that were arrested, she claimed that she had no idea that she had ammunition in her luggage.

Now under the previous law, the mandatory minimum was 12 years in prison, though judges, they had the discretion to find what they called, quote, "exceptional circumstances in departing from the sentencing guidelines," which is what happened with the previous cases involving the other Americans. Now in response to all of this criticism over all of these arrests, lawmakers in Turks and Caicos they amended the law last month to say that courts have the discretion to impose either a fine, a custodial sentencing or a mix of both. Grier again is expected in court later this morning. And if the proceedings play out just like the other cases, Sara, she could be back in the U.S. as early as later today.

SIDNER: As many times that this happen. People need to understand the law is really strict in Turks and Caicos when it comes to guns and ammunition. Carlos Suarez, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So sharks, amazing creatures can also be a little scary and often with a bad rap. A team in the Bahamas is now working to change that, bringing kids up close to see why these often misunderstood animals need to be protected. This is in today's Impact Your World.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT SMUKALL, PRESIDENT, BIMINI SHARK LAB: Bimini Shark Lab serves as a nonprofit in the Bahamas and in the United States. We also have a major education component, that's where we bring students in to the area around Bimini.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tag will go up here. And we want to be as --

SMUKALL: The students learn about the research, all of the types of tagging that we do, all of the long history that the shark lab has done here, but then take them out and really so they can see it with their own eyes, appreciate them in a new way and not be scared of some of the sharks. So going to see this thing arrays is a great introduction for the student where people can get in at their own pace, and get very, very comfortable with them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You'll see when they're going to come. They're going to come right over top. And here they are.

SMUKALL: One of our favorite places to take the students to is up to the mangroves to go see the lemon shark nursery ground, the lemon shark refuge, and why there's such value and making sure that those areas are protected. And then work our way up to maybe some of the larger sharks that they do have a bigger fear of.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess I just fell in love. And I hope that my love for it can reach out to people around the world and help them understand the sharks.

SMUKALL: When we see a student that changes their perception of, you know, going from one day being scared of sharks to in a couple of days super passionate, wanting to pursue this as their career, that's why we do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: And don't miss summer's biggest holiday "Discovery Shark Week," which is this week. Discovery and CNN show the same parent company, Warner Brother's Discovery.

John.

BERMAN: We were not missing it. Not at all.

All right. An American Airlines Flight forced to abort takeoff after several tires blew out on the runway. And for the first time since the deadly bridge collapse in Baltimore, one survivor is speaking out how he used floating concrete to stay alive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:48:32]

SIDNER: This morning court resumes in Alec Baldwin's involuntary manslaughter trial. During yesterday's opening statements, prosecutors accused the Hollywood actor of playing make believe with a real gun. While the defense argued the gun was checked and deemed safe by the armor. The first witness also took the stand, one of the first responders on the scene. If convicted, Baldwin could face up to 18 months in prison.

For more legal perspective, criminal defense attorney and CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson, he has many titles, we love them all.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You were kind.

SIDNER: Thank you for being here, Joey.

JACKSON: Always.

SIDNER: Prosecutors, you call the first witness and the first responders sort of took the stand and was asked about whether or not Baldwin obeyed orders not to talk about the case? And he says no, he didn't. Why is that a big issue?

JACKSON: So what happens is -- Sara, good morning, good to be with you.

SIDNER: Good morning.

JACKSON: What ends up happening is that in a case you need to protect the integrity of the proceeding. So if I'm the first on scene, and I'm an officer, you want to separate witnesses, so there's no collaboration so that there's no ability to otherwise come up with a story that may not be true. So you witness go here, you go here, do not speak. The issue, of course, was on cross examination was that reinforced. Did you tell him once or did you tell him more times?

Such that it was an oversight. Everyone's in shock. It's like oh my goodness, what's happening? So to the extent that Alec Baldwin did not particularly obey that order, you can't really hold it against them. He didn't know, that's the argument. SIDNER: And you're in this really stressful situation. You -- we saw some video of him being very distraught after it all happened.

JACKSON: Yes.

[07:50:01]

SIDNER: And so that was brought up by the defense. I do want to talk to -- you know, we throw around these legal terms a lot, manslaughter -- involuntary manslaughter --

JACKSON: Yes.

SIDNER: -- what's the difference?

JACKSON: So what happens is in a case where someone's dead people think murder, murder, you have to show intent. It was your objective, right? You meant to do it. In this particular case, you're not talking about intent at all, you're talking about how did it happen? Well, you were reckless, you consciously disregarded the notion that if you point a weapon at someone, that's something can happen. It's a degree of carelessness.

And so therefore, that's the major distinction. That's why he faces only 18 months in jail, as opposed to, Sara, if we talk about murder, life without parole. It's the state of mind that's used by the person. That's what he's faced.

SIDNER: And it's such an unusual situation, because this is on a movie set where it was -- guns were going to be used, it was a Western.

JACKSON: Yes.

SIDNER: And so that's why this case, I think, has a lot of people's attention. You have this very famous actor sort of at the helm here. And whether or not in his mind, he was -- you know, he was negligent, the armor has already gotten in trouble for this as well.

JACKSON: Yes.

SIDNER: So this is a really fascinating case. How prosecutors intend to prove their case? They're using words make believe, well, yes, it's Hollywood, it's a movie, it's make believe.

JACKSON: Exactly. So it's a real battle of the narratives. What narratives? If you're the prosecution, you're saying, wow, how careless were you? You need to use these rules of engagement, you violated cardinal rules.

How could you point a weapon at someone, much less have your finger on the trigger, much less to press the trigger so it goes off? The defense is saying, hey, this is a movie after all. And to the extent that I reasonably relied Alec Baldwin did on the weapon being a cold gun, cold gun, what does it mean? It means it's fake. And so when if it's fake, it doesn't matter if my fingers to press.

And what they did, that is the defense, this is big issue about whether Alec Baldwin said he pressed the trigger.

SIDNER: Right.

JACKSON: They're saying, hey, it didn't matter. He thought it was a fake gun. He had the ability to do that. And at the end of the day, he was an actor, and the rules should differ. It's not really a workplace where it's a real gun.

And so therefore, the defense is saying, Sara, he acted reasonably, which would of course avoid any criminality. That'll be a jury question.

SIDNER: You've spelled out the case perfectly. You could be an attorney on this case, I feel like. Joey Jackson, thank you so much.

JACKSON: You are kind.

SIDNER: I appreciate it for coming in this morning.

JACKSON: Always. Thanks, Sara.

SIDNER: I think I'm going to Johnson (ph)? We're not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Woo. Woo, woo, woo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A blown tire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Real time reaction as American Airlines Flight 590 had to abort takeoff at Tampa International Airport. The FAA says the crew reported multiple blown tires. Luckily, no one was injured.

The only man who survived falling into the Patapsco River during the Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse knows he is lucky to be alive. Cervantes Suarez was working alongside his friends, his brother-in-law and his nephew at the moment of collapse.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM LLAMAS, NBC NEWS ANCHOR (voice-over): I thought we might never get out, he says.

LLAMAS: Did you pray? Did you scream?

LLAMAS (voice-over): He says he thanked God, asked him to take care of his wife and family and ask for forgiveness for everything he'd done.

LLAMAS: Do you know how to swim?

JULIO CERVANTES SUAREZ, SURVIVOR, FRANCIS SCOTT KEY BRIDGE: No, senior.

LLAMAS (voice-over): Cervantes says he floated to a piece of the bridge, lodged in the river and started to call out for his co- workers.

SUAREZ: Alejandro, Miguel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: So as you just heard right there Suarez was inside his truck, he had rolled down his window to escape and hung onto a piece of floating concrete where he waited to be rescued.

New York Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has officially filed articles of impeachment against Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito. The Democratic Representative says a recent disclosure that the Justices received millions of dollars worth of gifts from people who she says we're doing business with the court without recusing themselves is grounds for impeachment.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: World leaders are arriving this morning for the final day of the NATO Summit in Washington. And it is a critical day, one that ends with President Biden giving his first solo press conference since the CNN debate. And it also comes as NATO leaders are announcing some big moves together. Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, he announced that the much anticipated American made F-16 fighter jets are now headed to Ukraine via Denmark and the Netherlands and should be flying over Ukraine this summer still. NATO leaders also put in China on notice, releasing a joint declaration that calls China a decisive enabler of Russia's war on Ukraine.

Joining us right now is CNN Global Affairs Analyst Kim Dozier and CNN Military Analyst retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. Good to see you both.

General, on the F-16s, let me ask you being delivered to Ukraine right now, ready to fly this summer? How much of a difference could these make?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, they could make a very big difference, Kate, if they're used correctly. Lots of people have been discussing this for months. But the better question is not will they make a difference, but how can they make a difference? And the reason I say that is because the F-16 is a multirole fighter, which means they can be used in an air to air role shooting down other airplanes. They can use in a close support role air to ground supporting troops on the front line.

[07:55:11]

And they can also be used in a deep strike role, which means they can go behind enemy lines, bomb targets, hit them, and just, you know, basically disrupt the battlefield. But I'm saying all this because it's one thing to get the aircraft. It's a much different thing to use the aircraft properly. Russia has been anticipating this, they've been bombing Ukrainian airfields trying to prevent that. How will Ukraine maintain these aircraft? How will the pilots, if they've been trained very well, how will they conduct these missions? How will they strike Russian air defense and electronic warfare? So it's a lot more complex than just saying, hey, they've got the F-16s in Ukraine now and they're flying overhead. There's a lot more to it than that

BOLDUAN: That's very clearly. And Kim, on -- back to the NATO Summit and kind of what's happening in the backdrop and overarching, all of this is everyone watching President Biden and this press conference. What are you hearing from officials in town for this summit? I mean, are European officials watching and waiting to see how the President does as well?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Every single European official I've spoken with has asked me what I thought was going to happen next with President Biden, but also described, it's some of the main conversation they're having amongst themselves. One told me it was like, you know, we've always watched Biden as he's gotten older, like an athlete who just sort of makes it over the bar. But now we've seen him crash, and therefore we all need to see him go a foot higher than he ever did before. It's a hard standard to beat between that. And they say that the Ukrainians are grateful but unhappy with the level of support they're getting. They didn't get a pathway to NATO with certain dates that they could hit a timeline.

They didn't get multiyear funding that they were hoping for, just a pledge for 43 billion a year or so just for the coming year. And everything that they're getting, they feel could be undone, depending on how the U.S. presidential race goes. And that goes back to how's Biden going to do this afternoon at that press conference.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I think you say perfectly just how linked it all is.

And, General, one other aspect of this is coming out I think is really interesting. NATO calling out China's decisive enablers, I had mentioned, of Russia in the war against Ukraine. I want to play for you how the secretary general of NATO describe this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: China has become a decisive enabler of Russia's war against Ukraine. And China's support increases the threat Russia poses to Euro Atlantic security. And China provides dual use equipment, microelectronics, a lot of other tools, which are enabling Russia to build the missiles, to build the bombs, to build the aircraft, to build the weapons they're using to attack Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And our friend David Sanger, he described it in this way, General, it's a major departure for NATO, which until 2019 never officially mentioned China as a concern and then only in the blandest of language. How big of a statement is this and what impact you see it having?

HERTLING: It's a big deal, Kate. And for years, having attended some of these NATO conferences, I've harken back even the late 2010 period. This has been known intelligence shows China is interfering with various NATO countries. And when you're talking about China being a silent partner to Russia, providing this kind of equipment, you know, it puts them right in the middle because they want to be friend with -- friends with European nations, because China gives so much and has so much exchange with Europe, but they can't have it both ways. We can't say, hey, we want to be close to European nations and at the same time support an illegal and a criminal war by Russia within Europe.

So it is devastating that the secretary general said this, but it's something that a lot of folks have known for a very long time and then in the intelligence community.

BOLDUAN: Yes, kind of just elevating it, right?

And Kim, Politico is reporting that if he wins, this gets to some of the discussions you're having with officials that, if he wins, Donald Trump is considering a reduction in intelligence sharing with members of NATO, that Trump advisors have told allied countries that the reduced intel sharing would be part of kind of a broader plan to scale back U.S. support with the military alliance. What impact would that have? How worried are European officials about that? Clearly worried because they're, you know, bringing the concerns to Politico and start reporting.

DOZIER: Every European official I've spoken to is worried about the possibility of a Trump presidency. They're worried about everything from Trump potentially pulling the U.S. out of NATO.

[08:00:00]