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Biden Campaigns In Battleground Michigan Today; Obama, Pelosi Privately Expressed Concerns About Biden Beating Trump; Rep. Levin Told Biden To Step Down On Call Earlier Today; Rep. Phil Skaggs (D-MI) Talks About Who He Prefers As The Top Democratic Ticket. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 12, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:21]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: A late-night meeting at the White House but no vote of confidence. We're seeing more of the fallout from last night's news conference with President Biden as he pushes forward with his re-election campaign today in the must-win state of Michigan.

Plus, no power, no water, but plenty of heat and even more frustration, hundreds of thousands of Texans waiting for electricity as anger at the utility companies is growing, so is concerned about what the future might look like as Texas pours more money into the same industry fueling this crisis.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: And there are weddings and there's the celebration happening in India this weekend, months in the making for a family worth billions of dollars. We will dive into the details of this opulent star-studded affair.

We're following these stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: We're following new developments as President Biden is intensifying his fight to stay in the race for the White House while the list of lawmakers in his own party who are publicly calling on him to step aside continues to grow.

Congressman Mike Levin of California is now the 19th lawmaker to say the nation needs to move forward without Biden.

This follows new reporting that House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries met privately with the President last night to discuss concerns about Biden's viability at the top of the ticket. Sources tell CNN Jeffries did not offer Biden his endorsement in that meeting.

DEAN: But the President is pushing ahead with this campaign and today he is headed to the critical battleground state of Michigan to try and convince voters he is up for a second term in the White House. Our correspondents are covering this story from Washington to Detroit, that's where we find seen in White House Correspondent Arlette Saenz who's traveling with the President today. And Arlette talk to us more about President Biden's plans there in Detroit.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica President Biden has said he will keep moving in this campaign and that's what he's doing as he visits this battleground state of Michigan. And in just a few hours, President Biden really trying to take his pitch directly to the voters here as he's trying to ease concerns about his ability to not just defeat Donald Trump but also his ability to serve a second term in office.

Now for the President's part, he is quite eager to turn the focus back to Donald Trump. Aides say that he will use this speech to really try to draw a policy contrast between him and his rival specifically leaning into that project 2025 conservative blueprint that so many Democrats are eager to tie Trump to in this election. The President while he is on the ground here in Michigan will also be joined by several elected officials in the state including the lieutenant governor, Garlin Gilchrist, Congresswoman Haley Stevens as well as congresswoman Debbie Dingell all as the campaign is trying to have this show of force of support as there are some concerns in the Democratic Party about President Biden continuing in this race.

As you mentioned the number of lawmakers calling for him to step aside has grown. One Michigan House Democrat, Hillary Scholten has called for the President to step aside as well suggesting there could be some additional pressure here in the state.

Now, the Biden campaign has argued as recently as yesterday that they really see the most direct path to Biden's victory as being right through that blue wall of the states that include Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. That is why the President is returning here as he's looking to make his case to voters.

It's also worth noting that the President will be speaking at the very same site where he spoke four years ago and offering that pledge to be a bridge to the next generation. That is something President Biden was asked about explicitly in the press conference last night. And he said that what has changed in this moment is the gravity of the situation and he wants to continue doing the work and finish the job he set out to do in his first term.

But, of course, there is a lot of pressure from within the Democratic Party for the President to step aside in this moment as some are clamoring for major change in this campaign.

SANCHEZ: Arlette Saenz live for us in Detroit, thank you so much.

Let's get you out now to Capitol Hill with CNN's Lauren Fox.

Lauren, walk us through this meeting with leader Jeffries because the statement that he put out doesn't say much.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Yes. And in part, Boris, that is a reflection, right, of the reality within his caucus, members are divided. Right now you have 19 Democrats who are calling Biden to step aside as the top of this presidential ticket heading into November.

[15:05:04]

And, you know, Jeffries has spent the last several days listening to members, having calls with members and I think the statement really does reflect the fact that his caucus is not united right now. And this meeting behind closed doors is being kept very closely held. We don't know a lot of details about what the two men discussed. What we do know, of course, is that Jeffries conveyed some of those arguments and some of the concerns that he is hearing from his own membership. And I think that this is very instructive.

Today, already, President Biden has had calls with key corners of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus and other important caucuses. It's also important to point out that over the weekend those conversations are going to continue. He's going to be talking to the Congressional Progressive Caucus, as well as New Dems, a more moderate group of House Democrats.

That really is reflecting the fact that Biden feels like he needs to be having these conversations directly with members. The question, of course, is it a little too - is it coming a little too late, given the fact that this has been going on and dragging on for the last two weeks now. And a lot of Democrats had been asking to hear from the President prior to this moment.

So I think after that press conference last night, it did not abate at least some of the concerns that you're hearing. You've had five congressional Democrats come out saying that they are also calling for Biden to no longer be the top of the ticket and that is just since the press conference last night. Jessica, Boris?

SANCHEZ: Lauren Fox, thanks so much for that reporting.

We also have some new exclusive reporting we want to break down on former President Barack Obama and former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. We've learned the two have actually spoken privately and discussed their concerns over Biden and how much harder they think it's going to become for him to beat Donald Trump.

DEAN: CNN's Isaac Dovere is one of our reporters who broke this story. He's joining us now.

Isaac, what did you guys learn?

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, listen, Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi have been concerned about this race for a while. They have been even more concerned since the debate. Both of them have taken approaches to this. Obama, for the most part, stayed out of public view and not saying anything. Pelosi making clear that she has serious doubts, to say the least, about Biden continuing.

But they have been talking, trying to figure out what to do. Our reporting is that neither of them is quite sure what to do here. They - if the goal is to get Biden to step aside, they're not exactly sure how to navigate that. If the goal is to try to unify the party behind Biden, if he stays in the race, then they don't quite know how to do that either.

And again, it's important that Pelosi has her reservations. She's made pretty clear, both publicly and to a lot of her fellow members, and that Obama, you know, we have the sense of them sometimes as like this bromance that existed with them in the White House. But the truth is, it's a long, complicated relationship. And you go back to the summer of 2015 when Beau Biden, Joe Biden's son, died and he was thinking about making a last minute jump into the race for - into the Democratic primaries.

And the way that he remembers and has written about what happened then is that Obama was not encouraging. The way that Obama feels that interaction went is that he was trying to get Biden to focus on grief and think about how hard the campaign would be. But now, if - so, people that I've talked to who know Biden said to me, if Obama were to step in and say to Joe Biden, I think maybe you shouldn't run in the words, one person said that this would be - that what would likely happen is Joe Biden would say, well, Mr. President, you played that chip in 2015 and look what happened. That brought us Donald Trump.

DEAN: Yes, there is certainly a lot of indications that he really does feel that way, that that is why he got in, in 2020. All right, Isaac Dovere. Thanks so much.

DOVERE: Thank you.

DEAN: And joining us now to discuss further is Biden biographer, Chris Whipple, author of "The Fight of His Life: Inside Joe Biden's White House."

Chris, thanks so much for being here with us. We just had my colleague Isaac Dovere talking about his reporting on former President Obama and sort of the dynamic there. What more can you tell us based on, on your research and your reporting for your book about that dynamic that is complicated between President Biden and former President Obama?

CHRIS WHIPPLE, AUTHOR: It's a fraught dynamic, to be sure. I mean, on the one hand, it's a very close relationship between Joe Biden and Barack Obama, and Obama really took Joe Biden under his wing when Beau Biden was dying with terminal cancer. So they're very close, but at the same time, they're extremely competitive.

And I think Joe Biden always felt that he was - that nobody took him seriously enough as a candidate when he was the vice president. And he certainly had no use for the President's aides, David Axelrod and David Plouffe, who he thought didn't think he was presidential timber.

So there's plenty of tension there. And in a way, nothing would harden Joe Biden's resolve to run more than Barack Obama trying to tell him what to do.

[15:10:07]

DEAN: And I don't have to tell you or anybody that's watching right now, there's been a lot talked about and written about, about access to the President is his is his staff, is his close circle kind of protecting him. When you were writing your biography about Joe Biden, I'm curious what your experience was in dealing with this White House, in dealing with the team around him.

WHIPPLE: I mean, you know, I think it is one of the most battened down, buttoned up, scripted White Houses in modern history, and I think that's true. And that's been successful for them in many ways. But at the same time, I think that it's been, it's been unfortunate in the sense that I think they've kept Joe Biden in a bubble and he really needs to get out.

And look, this is the fight of his life. I had no idea the title of my book would be so apt. Joe Biden is not a great campaigner. He's not a great orator. And one campaign staffer from the 2020 race told me they were lucky, in a way, that they were campaigning during the COVID epidemic. Not only could they wrap it around Donald Trump's neck, but they could keep Joe Biden in the basement, to some extent. And he didn't have to prove himself every day. Now he does.

DEAN: And it is interesting - I covered that 2020 race, and I covered Joe Biden during that race, and we would get admittedly frustrated, because it was so buttoned up. That was just how they ran their ship. There were not a lot of leaks. It was very rare there was a leak.

We have seen that. We've seen a difference in that in the last week or so. We've seen things change. And it is important, I think, too, to kind of separate out that very small group of close advisors around him, but then also, too, more broadly, the people who are working within the administration or even in the White House, who, you know, we are getting background quotes from now. We are hearing more from them.

WHIPPLE: You know, the DNA of this White House is controlling the narrative. They're obsessed with it. As I say, they've been somewhat successful with it. They've passed more legislation than any other president in recent history. But, look, it also comes at a price and we're starting to see that now with Joe Biden.

I mean, they have been extremely protective. There's a history of this that goes all the way back to FDR in his wheelchair, John Kennedy with Addison disease, Ronald Reagan with incipient dementia. So, look, they're not the first ones to be secretive and protective with the President. But now Joe Biden's got to get out there and show that he can not only govern, which is pretty clear he does well, but campaign effectively.

DEAN: And President Biden said last night when he was asked a question at his news conference that this isn't about his legacy. He says in his mind it's about finishing the job he started. Can you help us understand his thinking and the way he thinks about this as he is fighting for his political life, not only to remain the nominee, but to try and beat Donald Trump for the second time?

WHIPPLE: Yes, you know, it's fascinating. What I learned while spending two years writing my book on the Biden White House is that the thing that shocked Joe Biden more than anything else in his presidency was the lasting power of Trumpism, of MAGA. He thought it would be in the rearview mirror by now. And that's why - that's part of why he said he would be a bridge to the next generation.

I don't think he was necessarily planning to be a two-term president. But now that Trump is the alternative, Joe Biden really believes in his bones that he's the guy to beat him and that the stakes couldn't be higher.

DEAN: It is so fascinating. I remember him saying often - I remember he would say he thought that this was like a fever that would break on the Republican side once this all kind of cleared. And you make such an important point when it comes to how he's thinking about this.

Chris Whipple, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

WHIPPLE: Yes. My pleasure.

DEAN: Straight ahead, President Biden's campaign acknowledges he cannot win without several key states in the Midwest. So where do his numbers stand in that so-called blue wall? We'll take a look.

Plus, the outrage is building in Texas' homes, businesses, hospitals remain without power following Hurricane Beryl, just as a heat wave brings those dangerous temperatures to the state.

SANCHEZ: And a former Israeli hostage says he spent months having Hamas militants tell him they were going to kill him and record it before he was rescued by Israeli forces. How he described the physical and psychological trauma he experienced. Those stories and much more straight ahead.

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DEAN: This just in to CNN. We've learned today on a call with the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, Congressman Mike Levin told President Joe Biden he believes he should step down from the ticket. Shortly after that, Levin went public with his call for Biden to step aside, becoming the 19th member of Congress to ask Biden to quit the race.

SANCHEZ: Now, this is the first instance CNN has reported of a sitting member of Congress directly telling President Biden to step aside. Let's discuss with veteran political scientist Larry Sabato. He's the founder and director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics.

Obviously, Larry, great to have you.

Biden visiting the swing state of Michigan this afternoon, it's central to the blue wall. How does current polling show a trend there? How Biden is faring?

LARRY SABATO, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Well, surprisingly to some, despite all the negative information and understandable depression among many Democrats, Biden is holding his own in the polls and the national matchups. He and Trump are basically even. Sometimes he's up a point or two. Sometimes Trump is up a point or two. [15:20:04]

The problem, of course, is Democrats are normally, not always, but normally disadvantaged in the Electoral College. And in order to reduce or eliminate that disadvantage, they have to win the popular vote by 3-, 4-, I guess you could argue 5 percent, depending on how many extra votes California, and Illinois and New York are producing for Democrats.

That's the fundamental problem that Democrats have and that President Biden has or whoever the Democratic nominee ends up being. All he can do, if he's going to stay in and if people are going to rally around him eventually, all he can do is what he is doing, essentially, making sure that the key states, the handful of swing states, can produce a narrow, narrow, narrow, just a few thousand vote margin for him, enough to get him over to 69. He has to get 270 or above.

DEAN: Right. And, you know, we had that memo yesterday, Larry, from the Biden campaign saying that they believe that they can win with that blue wall, with Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, that that is their road to 270 that you were just talking about. And you also mentioned just these margins in these states in the last two cycles have just been so small, considering all of the votes out there.

It puts a lot of pressure on the Biden campaign, and it's no surprise that we've seen him go to Pennsylvania a ton and that we see him in Michigan today. They know that they have to win in those states.

SABATO: Oh, absolutely. Look, his path has been obvious for a long, long time. He has to win the three blue wall states, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and that one congressional district around Omaha and Nebraska since they split up their electoral votes and that gets him to 270. Talk about having no margin for error.

Trump actually has additional pathways. I'm not going to say they're all easy because they aren't. And theoretically, Biden has additional pathways. I'm always suspicious of maps, these new maps that are produced showing how somebody can put together 270 in an unusual way, because it reminds me of that old saying, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

It would be wonderful to be able to do some of these things, but under our polarized, very partisan system, it is difficult just as it's difficult to get people to ticket split anymore. They used to enjoy ticket splitting. They used to do it with abandon.

SANCHEZ: To the question of ticket splitting, your team at the Center for Politics looked at the impact of Biden's polling on down ballot races, obviously something that's a huge concern for these Democrats on the Hill coming forward, asking the Biden - asking Biden to step aside from the campaign. What did you find?

SABATO: The Crystal Ball team, and I want to give special credit to Miles Coleman here, discovered that if conditions continue as they as they are and Biden loses by a point or three points, we have different gradations in there, Democrats, instead of gaining the handful of seats they need to take control, would lose 10 seats or even 25 seats. It doesn't have to happen, but people need to remember that we are linking races today, that people start voting for a party at the top of the ballot, and a large majority of them continue voting for the same party all the way down to the bottom of the ballot.

So if Trump, for example, wins, he's likely to very likely, to carry in the House and the Senate. And, of course, Biden could recapture the House if he manages to get the majority that he needs.

DEAN: Yes. It'll be fascinating to see. Larry Sabato, thanks so much. Always good to see you.

SABATO: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss further now with a state lawmaker, a Democrat from Michigan. Phil Skaggs is a state representative for the Grand Rapids and Kent County areas.

Sir, thanks so much for being with us.

There was a moment at the press briefing last night with President Biden where he said that he believes he's the most qualified person to run for president. You feel differently. You've called on him to step aside from the top of the Democratic ticket. Who would you rather see in that position?

STATE REP. PHIL SKAGGS (D-MI): Well, I - it's nice to be with you. I think that it's no secret that Democrats have an extraordinarily deep bench of people who are experienced enough and will make excellent presidents. But in addition, and more importantly on some level, is that they will be formidable candidates. And that's really important, because you can be the best mayor, the best governor, the best president, but you've got to get elected to actually govern.

[15:25:03]

And so my concern here is really, do - are we putting forward the best nominee for president possible. So those alternatives, I think, are fairly widely known. Obviously, the Vice President is at the top of that list, but so is our governor here in Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer. And governors, I think, throughout the United States from California, and Kentucky, and Maryland and Pennsylvania.

SANCHEZ: Whitmer has essentially said that she's not getting into the Presidential race. She's tacitly endorsed President Biden. I'm wondering what you think is driving Democrats who still back him, who still believe in him, if it's so obvious to you that he should drop out?

SKAGGS: You know, people are making some different calculations. It's obviously extremely difficult to stand up and suggest that a sitting president should not run for re-election, never easy. People are obviously clearly worried about wounding President Biden if he does end up being our nominee.

But I think that the conversation that we are having now is the sign of a strong party, of a party that is taking this nomination process seriously, that's not a cult of personality like the Republican Party, which is genuflecting to a convicted felon.

SANCHEZ: If current trends continue, as we just heard from Larry, there may be a theoretical path to the White House for Biden if he loses Michigan, but probably not. It doesn't seem like it'd be in the cards. Do you think that there's something specific that might keep him from winning there?

SKAGGS: Well, if I may, I'm a state representative from Michigan, and I'm a little bit more focused - I love our country. I think the republic is at stake, but I am focused here on Michigan. We have a very competitive U.S. Senate race. We have a very competitive - at least three very competitive congressional races.

But like I said, I'm a state legislator. We just earned a trifecta here in Michigan. The state House is up for election in November, and what I am concerned about is down-ballot races a little bit farther than you were talking about with Larry that it's down-ballot to state House, state Senate races, county commission races.

That's why I believe that the Democratic Party needs to come in and let the President (INAUDIBLE) the precedent (ph), that him being at the top of the ticket affects all of us and it's extraordinarily important because we have to have the turnout, right? I think the President's plan is that undecideds will eventually come home to Biden.

What I'm concerned about is that those undecideds, those folks that are disaffected, those folks that are having questions about the President's abilities are simply going to not come home to Biden, but they're going to stay home. And if they do not show up at the ballot booth, then they're not voting for any other tickets far down, not just for D.C. offices, but for state and local offices as well.

SANCHEZ: Phil, how do you respond to Democrats who say that this public debate, this airing of concern, is endangering Biden's chances to win the White House, making it more difficult for him to beat Donald Trump? Do you wish that these doubts and objections had been handled more privately?

SKAGGS: Well, I think there was an attempt early on to handle these a little bit more privately. The President is insistent, as things stand now, I think - although I think that there was some movement back from the intransigence of the letter to Congress in the press conference last night.

So I think that through a combination of private conversations from people far more important and higher up the ladder than myself, but also through polls where we see that Democratic voters are itching for a new nominee, I certainly see that as I go about town and talk to my constituents that there's a lot of frustration with both nominees. I think if we put forward a nominee that can give a vibrant, enthusiastic message about the successes of the past and a vision for the future, that we'll see this election quickly flip from neck and neck with possibly the President down. And Larry makes a lot of excellent points about polls and history. I think we'll be looking at a blue wave if we are putting forward the best nominee possible. So I don't begrudge my colleagues at all for coming to a different calculus for a whole variety of reasons, but I do not think that we are harming this party by having a clear conversation about who our best nominee is.

SANCHEZ: Michigan state representative, Phil Skaggs, we appreciate your perspective. Thanks for coming on.

SKAGGS: My pleasure.

SANCHEZ: We have some breaking news just in to CNN. A federal judge has dismissed Rudy Giuliani's bankruptcy case.

[15:30:02]

The decision paves the way for two former Georgia election workers who won a defamation claim against him to pursue and potentially takeaway ...