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Americans Released in Massive Prisoner Swap with Russia. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired August 01, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

ANNOUNCER: Breaking news.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And we are following this major breaking news. A massive prisoner swap between the United States and Russia. The large-scale swap, as it is described, is right now underway. It is expected to include "Wall Street Journal" reporter Evan Gershkovich, and American Marine Paul Whelan, among multiple other American we are told.

A lot not known. A lot of questions and a lot of very stressful, very delicate minutes and hours ahead.

They are expected to be in U.S. custody soon. This is according to a senior administration official. This swap ending a monthslong negotiation that was kept very quiet and was understandably very complicated. It ends a year's long nightmare for so many. Both Paul Whelan, who had been in Russian custody for more than five years, and Evan, as you see on the right side of your screen, Evan there, in custody for just doing his job as a journalist, wrongfully detained for more - for the better part of a year now.

CNN is learning more minute by minute. We've got our team coverage here in the United States and around the globe.

Let's start this hour, once again, with Alex Marquardt, who first brought us this breaking news.

What's the very latest, Alex.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, Omar, we may be at the beginning of what is truly a historic and very emotional they, not just for the families of the people coming home, but, of course, for this entire country that has been wrapped (ph) with this saga of these wrongfully detained Americans in Russia for several years.

We are learning more from the Biden administration. They said just moments ago that a - that a prisoner exchange is underway and they have confirmed that at least two of the people being released by Russian authorities are former Marine Paul Whelan and "Wall Street Journal" reporter Evan Gershkovich. These are two of the highest profile political prisoners being held by Russia, who American officials have been trying to negotiate their released for a very long time.

Today would be the culmination of years of hard work to try to get not just these two men home, but many others as well.

We are trying to understand the contours of what could be a historic deal. And when I say historic, it's not just in terms of the size, the number of prisoners who could be exchanged by these countries, but also the number of countries involved.

We believe that this is an extraordinarily complex swap that is now underway. We don't know what stage it is at right now. We don't know where, for example, Gershkovich and Whelan are right now. But the senior administration official who we spoke with said that they are expected to soon be in U.S. custody. But that could take all day. This is a highly logistical and complex operation to undertake. Again, we believe involving multiple countries.

Some of the others who we believe may be involved in this swap. Vadim Krasikov would be the biggest name who the Russians want. This is a colonel in the FSB, which is the successor to the KGB, has been held for years by Germany after carrying out a killing in a Berlin park. And so as the U.S. has tried to negotiate the release of Gershkovich and Whelan, the Russians have been asking for Krasikov. And so the U.S. has been putting pressure on Germany to try to get them to release him. So, at the very least we believe that the countries involved in today's exchange are - are the U.S., who would release several Russian prisoners. There aren't very many high profile Russian prisoners. There are people, for example, who have been committed - or who have been convicted of cybercrimes. That's the kind of prisoner who the U.S. would release. Germany would be expected to release Krasikov as the - as the Russians release Paul Whelan and Evan Gershkovich.

One name I also want to highlight, Vladimir Kara-Murza, who is a Russian-British national. He is an award winning reporter, seen by the Russians to be an opposition activist. He has also been held by the Russians and Germany, Britain, the U.S. and other countries have been trying to get him out.

So, we believe we are at the beginning of this historic day. A large swap involving multiple countries. But tremendous news right now that we can report from the Biden administration that Paul Whelan and Evan Gershkovich are expected to be among those released today and would be returning home soon to the United States.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I mean at the beginning of what would truly be an historic day here. And as you mentioned, we are starting to see different departments in the United States at least start to trickle out, either confirmations or acknowledgments that this prisoner swap is underway.

[09:05:08]

Kayle Tausche is at the White House for us.

Kayla, what are you hearing from the White House? KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Omar, this has been a multiagency effort between the intelligence community, the State Department, the National Security Council, the president himself, as well as the Department of Justice.

And this has been an ongoing effort for many, many years as the administration has sought to bring home these Americans who have been wrongfully detained overseas. It's been not only a high priority for President Biden, but a top priority for President Biden. He reiterated that message just last week in his speech from the Oval Office where he talked about his decision not to run for a second term. And President Biden has been meeting regularly with the families of Evan Gershkovich, with the families of Paul Whelan, for multiple years.

The family of Evan Gershkovich was a guest at the White House Correspondents Dinner in April 2023, shortly after Evan was detained in Russia. And President Biden spoke to them directly, saying that journalism is not a crime and that he was going to do everything in his power to bring them home.

Certainly, behind the scenes there have been furious negotiations for years at this point as administration officials tried to assemble a deal that they believed would be attractive to Russia to accept. That had not happened until very recently. And that is why we're seeing this situation happening on this timing specifically.

Of course, the administration did secure the release of WNBA player Brittney Griner back in December 2022 in exchange for a Soviet arms dealer known as the merchant of death. And at the time the family of Paul Whelan, a Marine who himself was a software executive who was detained in Russia, even preceding the Biden administration, his family was very critical of the fact that President Biden agreed to a deal that would bring Griner home but that would not secure the release of Whelan.

Shortly after that, Evan Gershkovich was detained in Russia for his reporting. And then, once again, a pen was put to paper as they tried to, again, find the contours of a deal that would be seen as attractive to Russia. But one did not exist at the time because of the lack of Russian criminals in U.S. custody that Russia actually wanted to have back in country.

This is going to be an historic development if it happens. And we stress if because, of course, it has not happened yet as far as we know. And so we are waiting for more details.

But as far as what we expect from the president, it's been a relatively quiet week for President Biden. There have been questions about why he has chosen to take certain events over the last two-ish, two-and-a-half days, that he did not appear on camera. And when reporters asked the press secretary about when we would see President Biden on camera, she said simply, tune in. Essentially signaling that there would be an event where we would see President Biden later this week. And it stands to reason that he would be willing to speak out if this is a prisoner swap that happens successfully. NSC Spokesman John Kirby was asked directly yesterday in the White

House press briefing about the potential for a swap involving multiple countries. And he said, all I can say at this time is that they remain very devoted to delivering those Americans and those who are wrongfully detained all over the world, including but not limited to Evan Gershkovich. And certainly we await the news that that deal has actually happened.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. All the reporting coming in right now is that the exchange is underway. How long it will take before we see video, get confirmation, we're going to stand by together on all of this.

And as Kayla was talking about Paul Whelan, he's been in - he's been behind bars in Russia since his arrest in 2018. And during that time, CNN reporter and producer Jennifer Hansler has had the opportunity that she has - that she has received calls, she's been able to speak to Paul on the phone from time to time, expressing his frustrations, hearing his voice from a Russian prison on what it has been like for him as he's been enduring this for now five years.

I want to play for you some - just one bit of their conversations over the years. This, Paul Whelan talking about Evan Gershkovich.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL WHELAN, SPEAKING TO CNN FROM RUSSIAN PRISON: I'm sympathetic and empathetic to him and his family because I understand what they're going through and my family certainly understands what they're going through. It's something that you just can't fathom, especially if you're a tourist, or like Evan, he was just doing his job, and, you know, you end up in a cage in a courtroom being told that you have to spend 16 years, you know, hard labor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:10:03]

BOLDUAN: Just some of what we heard from Paul Whelan over the years to Jennifer Hansler and her amazing reporting in all of this.

Let's get over to Kylie Atwood, standing by at the State Department for us.

Kylie, what details are coming in that you're picking up? Are there more - what are you hearing about possibly more Americans being involved to be released?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, just to put a fine point quickly on Paul Whelan, to give viewers an understanding of how long he has been detained in Russia, he's been there as multiple Americans have been detained, deemed wrongfully detained, and then released, all the while he has been waiting for the moment where he is included in a prisoner swap. And of course we're learning that that is coming to fruition as we speak. It has been a tremendous number of years, more than five years behind bars for him. So, it's been incredibly challenging. Those conversations with Jennifer Hansler have shown a light on the

lows that he has been through, the moments where he has felt there might be breakthroughs. One of the questions, as you said, is if there are other Americans who are detained in Russia who might be included in what we understand is going to be a massive prisoner swap that's underway right now. We know, of course, that Evan Gershkovich is involved according to the Biden administration. But there are other Americans.

Alex mentioned Vladimir Kara-Murza. He's a prominent critic of the Kremlin. He was detained in 2022, actually after he spoke on CNN. And he said that the Kremlin, that President Putin's regime is regime of murderers. So, that is one we'll be watching to see if there's any movement there.

There's also Alsu Kurmasheva. She is a journalist. She was working for Radio Free Europe. She traveled back into Russia last spring, last summer, to visit her mother. And then she was detained. Both of her passports taken away from her, including, of course, her American passport. She has not gone through a trial, but her family has encouraged the State Department to pay close attention to her case, specifically because they say there are so many similarities between her work and the work of Evan Gershkovich, who is that "Wall Street Journal" reporter who was deemed wrongfully detained by the State Department.

There's also Marc Fogel. He is an American teacher who had been teaching in Moscow for many years. Diplomats here at the State Department actually know Marc Fogel pretty well because he is someone who taught their children while they were serving in Russia. Now, the school that he was working at has since closed. And when he was returning to Russia in 2021, he was going there for his final year of teaching, and he was arrested. He was charged with smuggling of drugs. The same charge that we saw against Brittney Griner, who was then, of course, released in a following prisoner swap. He hasn't been deemed wrongfully detained, but he's someone who's family we've been talking to, has been worried about him, has been worried about his health. So, there are many individuals that we have been keeping an eye on. We'll watch to see if they are included.

And then, of course, as you guys have been discussing, who else from around the globe U.S. officials have been able to secure as part of this overall deal because we just know that the United States didn't have many high value targets that the Russians were wanting as part of a swap.

JIMENEZ: And as far as those - those targets go, we know that there have been just a number of different names that have been floated around, different opportunities, potentially at other points in the midst of previous prisoner exchanges that we have seen. Of course every time it came up, whether it was Trevor Reed, Brittney Griner, there were questions over whether some - whether someone like Paul Whelan would be included and why or why not they were not at the time.

Stay with us, Kylie. Matthew Chance, I want to bring you in here because, look, as you've spoken about before, you've done extensive reporting inside Russia. At points, again, trying to get into the legal proceedings against Evan Gershkovich there as well. What is your impression of what it took to get again, as far as we know, it's got these two, Paul Whelan and Evan Gershkovich, what is your sense of what it would take to get to a swap of this magnitude from the Russians?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's taken a lot. A lot of painful negotiations, months, if not years of contact between the special services of the United States and Russia. And, of course, it's a multinational effort as well. Not least because the person that the Russians want back more than anyone else is Vadim Krasikov, the FSB colonel. And he was held, not in the United States, but in Germany. And the Germans had been very reluctant to just let out a convicted murderer, somebody who killed, you know, a Chechen dissident in broad daylight in a Berlin park just because the United States wanted - wanted them to.

[09:15:03]

There's a political pressure in Germany for them not to do that. And so it had to be worth Germany's efforts and risk as well. I think that's why we're going to see a lot of people associated with Germany who have been held in Russian prisons that are also going to be a part of this deal because it's an ethical compromise that governments who release convicted criminals have to make, they have to know and have to be able to justify to their population that it's worth it.

I think the other sort of aspect of this is who's going to be left behind in this big, historic prisoner swap. We've been talking a bit about Marc Fogel. He was my neighbor in Russia, in Moscow, for many years. And he brought something about half a pound of cannabis into the country and is serving a 14 year prison sentence. There's a sense - I don't think - I don't think - you know, he's not been talked about as somebody who's going to be part of this deal.

There are other figures as well. Gordon Black is a U.S. Army staff sergeant. He beat his girlfriend who was convicted of doing that and stole money in Russia and he's serving a prison sentence.

And then, you know, on a - on a broader level, I mean what about Alexei Navalny? I mean Alexei Navalny, according to his team, was meant to be part of this deal. He was meant to be the person that the Germans were going to swap Vadim Krasikov for. And - you know, but he died. He died in a Russian prison at the beginning of this year. And so I know there are critics out there that say this was the Kremlin ruthlessly taking their biggest critic, the biggest Kremlin critic, Alexei Navalny, off the negotiating table. And so that the deal that was - that was in the offing, that was being discussed that involved his release would not be able to go ahead because he was no longer alive.

And so, look, there are all these people that have - that have been lost, that have been left behind as well. And so this is not a - you know, it's not a celebration. It's great news for the people that are - that are being let out, but it's - it's at a cost. And I think that's an important aspect of this.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Matthew Chance, really appreciate that perspective.

And just for our viewers to note, and to put this in perspective, this is now the third major prisoner exchange between Russia and the U.S. in just over two years. In April 2022 that was the American Trevor Reed, U.S. citizen, former Marine. And then in December 2022, that's when we saw WNBA star Brittney Griner released from Russian detention.

BOLDUAN: We're following - there's more details coming in. We're learning more about who the Americans are that are set to be released, where they are in terms of this prisoner swap. More details coming in on this massive prisoner exchange that is underway between the U.S. and Russia.

We'll be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:22:35]

BOLDUAN: And we do continue to follow this breaking news that is developing as we speak. Americans Paul Whelan and Evan Gershkovich are expected to be included in a massive prisoner exchange between the United States, Russia and several other countries.

The significance of what is playing out right now and happening today cannot be overstated. The impact of this will be felt for days and far, far, far beyond. These men wrongfully detained, these two we're talking about right here and you see on your screen, wrongfully detained and in prison for years.

Whelan, since 2018, Gershkovich has been detained for over a year and was recently sentenced to 16 years in Russian prison.

Let me play you something more from a conversation between Paul Whelan and CNN producer Jennifer Hansler, as they have been able to communicate and have phone calls at times throughout his time behind bars. An interview from a Russian prison.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL WHELAN: It's extremely odd maybe is the best word to turn 54 in a Russian prison. It's been a funny day with all sorts of small parties, drinking tea and coffee, and eating cakes and candies, and having a decent dinner and cake and all sorts of things with friends here. It really takes you out of the being in prison sort of aspect of things, and makes life seem bearable for a few minutes here and there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Here and there.

I want to bring in right now Jonathan Franks, someone we have spoken many times - this is actually the first time we've ever been able to be in person, a spokesperson for the Bring Our Families Home campaign.

You were also involved in getting another American detained, Trevor Reed, released in 2022. We have - you know this process unfortunately better than many people should. Your reaction to today, Jonathan?

JONATHAN FRANKS, SPOKESPERSON, BRING OUR FAMILIES HOME: Well, I don't want to get ahead of the White House. I know they haven't confirmed it yet. But assuming what's reported is true, what a miracle. We've been waiting for Paul to come home since Trevor got out, since Trevor found out that he - Paul wouldn't be on the plane. So, you know, what the administration has apparently pulled off today is both historic and, you know this is going to be a legacy piece for President Biden. They've brought home an historic number of people during this administration.

JIMENEZ: And, Jonathan, I mean, look, this is not the first prisoner swap we have seen.

[09:25:03]

Each one has its own set of difficulties and intricacies. But I think there is a - there is a sense when Trevor Reed came home, when Brittney Griner came home, that Paul Whelan was being left behind. And I'm curious, in those cases is - to the extent that you were involved, how much of that do you believe was true, and were you surprised to see that he wasn't included in previous deals that were made?

FRANKS: I was not surprised that he didn't come home with Trevor. I was a little surprised that he didn't come home with Brittney Griner. And that's a function of the Russians, you know, having built him up as the second coming of the Rosenbergs, even though, you know, he's transparently not guilty.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

You were involved in getting Trevor Reed out. And it was a huge moment. He's - he, you know, sat down and spoke with CNN in the aftermath. And hearing his story, he was released in 2022, had been wrongfully detained for was it three years, nearly three years, I think it was around there. How do you get there? What does it take? Each one is different. But I'm trying to just give everyone at home some perspective on what all has been going on behind the scenes to pull this off.

FRANKS: So, Trevor's case was sort of unique in that it was the first in this administration, the first swap. So, in a sense, we had to go out and sell the Russian inmates that were being swapped. And, you know, as I said back then, those swaps were not dangerous to the United States, in neither of the people swapped, either for Trevor or for Brittney Griner, has caused any danger to the United States since. They've trolled us a little bit, but I can live with that, in the same sense that, you know, there was controversy on this trade, apparently includes Mr. Krasikov. I am not at all worried about that. Mr. Krasikov is effectively confined to Russia, Iran, Venezuela, and maybe China for the rest of his life. So, there's not a lot of chance that he would do harm to an American or any of our allies. JIMENEZ: And can you just give us a sense to of - take yourself back

to the Trevor Reed portions. Obviously, we're trying to get as many details as we can. The whereabouts included are being kept very sensitively for obvious reasons. But what is happening at this particular moment. When the news starts to trickle out, where - what do you believe - where do you believe they are in the process of whether physically getting these folks out or just conversation wise?

FRANKS: And I want to be clear, I'm speculating entirely. But -

JIMENEZ: For sure. But based on your experience with Trevor Reed.

FRANKS: Eventually, if this is true, an airplane will land on an airstrip somewhere. In Trevor's case they used Turkey. In Brittney's case I believe they used the UAE or Saudi. I can't remember. So, who knows. There will be an exchange on a tarmac somewhere. And if history is a guide, the Russians will probably have a camera crew along and we'll probably see it on state TV before we see it here.

BOLDUAN: That's a - that's a great point. And just, you know, communications and being able to continue advocating for the release of these Americans who don't have a voice is something that's so important. And you've been described many times as what was Trevor Reed's most important communications ally, Jonathan.

Stick with us, if you will.

I want to get over to CNN's Jim Sciutto. He is talking to a lot of his sources as well.

What are you hearing, Jim? You're hearing from - getting some reaction, initial reaction, maybe from family and friends?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's right. I've been speaking to someone close to the families. And let's be clear here, this is the potential end of a very long, difficult, and painful road for the families. And invariably, there's a great deal of nervousness right up until the final point, until they see their relatives are free and clear. And of course we're dealing with the Russians here who are not always a reliable partner in negotiation. So, we should begin with that caveat.

But my understanding from this person close to the families, who is in fact with them right now, is that there is a great deal of elation, a great deal of relief, anticipation, but also some understandable remaining nervousness because they, of course, Kate and Omar, they want to see this deal done and they're not going to be confident, fully confident that the deal is done until they see their loved ones free and clear.

But you can imagine, in this moment, with so much uncertainty, so many false starts, you think particularly of the Whelan family, right, where they thought they were going to be parts of other swaps that did happen and he was not involved. So, they've been burned before. So, you understand, as they go into this, they will always enter with that - with that - that sense of nervousness. But, as I speak to this person, boy, this is quite a day for them. And

there's an enormous amount of anticipation right now.

JIMENEZ: And that's the thing. Look, from the outside looking in, this is an historic day. But at the center of this, as it sounds like some of your conversations get at, these are families trying to process and deal with when their loved ones are going to come home, dealing with false starts at point, not understanding, OK, maybe it's going to happen, maybe it's not.

But as you point out as well, there's still a lot more hurdles before it sounds like they'll - they'll feel satisfied with what's happening.

SCIUTTO: No question.

[09:30:04]

JIMENEZ: Jim, stay with us.

SCIUTTO: And think about it, Omar -

JIMENEZ: Oh, yes, go ahead, finish.

SCIUTTO: Think about, Omar, how many players are involved in this, right -

JIMENEZ: Yes.