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Whelan and Gershkovich to Be Released in Prisoner Swap. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired August 01, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Sounds like they'll -- they'll feel satisfied with what's happening.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: No question.

JIMENEZ: Jim, stay with us.

SCIUTTO: And think about it, Omar --

JIMENEZ: Oh, yes, go ahead, finish.

SCIUTTO: Think about, Omar, how many players are involved in this, right --

JIMENEZ: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Because it's multiple countries involved. It's not just the U.S.. and Russia. You have Germany involved, where there was resistance to releasing someone who's a convicted killer, right, in this -- in this broader negotiation here as we see it come to be. That makes it all the more difficult.

I will add just one final point. It shows you that even in the midst of what is a crisis level relationship between Moscow and Washington, largest war in Europe and Ukraine, the U.S.. on one side supporting the Ukrainians, Russia, of course, continuing their invasion, a number of other places around the globe where the U.S.. and Russia are clashing, that they are still able to have diplomatic conversations, like this one, in deeply difficult circumstances. And if there is a sliver of light, right, in that relationship, it is that you can still have these negotiations and conversations. And that's important.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely.

Jim, thanks. Kind of helping us refocus on -- at the center of this, what this is really all about, the human beings and getting human beings back to their -- back to their families.

Jim's working his sources. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to reset on the other side. Much more to come. More details to come. Everyone waiting for the moment that we well see for the first time video -- we believe inevitably we will see when these Americans will be released and back in U.S.. custody. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:36:02]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JIMENEZ: Welcome back, everyone.

The major, breaking news happening as we speak, a massive prisoner exchange is underway between the United States and Russia, expected to include high-profile jailed Americans Paul Whelan and Evan Gershkovich.

I want to bring in -- bring back in, I should say, CNN's Alex Marquardt, who's learning what we might be able to expect happen today.

Alex, I know there's a lot of moving parts at this point and information is only trickling out, but what have you heard so far?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: So many moving parts, Omar and Kate. And on top of the history and emotion that we will see today, it's also going to be very dramatic. If past is precedent, this is going to be something that's out of a movie.

We have seen on video the releases of Trevor Reed, of Brittney Griner, of Viktor Bout from the U.S. to the Russians. So, we're going to start to see in the coming hours photos and videos released by different governments, released by different agencies.

What we expect to happen, and again this is -- we don't have the details of how this is going to unfold, but how it's happened in the past is that planes from these different countries carrying these prisoners converge on a tarmac in a third country. In the past, with Brittney Griner for example, it took place in the United Arab Emirates. There were prisoners released from Iran who were transferred in Doha, the capital of Qatar. Turkey has also been playing a role in this. So, we could see prisoners being exchanged in the capital at the airport there in Ankara.

So, this is one of the details that we're trying to find out. And because this is a multi-country deal, we believe, you're going to be seeing airplanes likely coming in from different places.

Now, the Russians, as they have in the past, and I believe your previous guest alluded to this, they have, in the past, released video and photos before others. So, we could see some things coming out of their -- their Russian state media.

But when it comes to the prisoners who are coming home to the United States, and I should note that that could include a Kremlin critic, Vladimir Kara-Murza, who is a Russian and British national, but also has permanent residency here in the U.S. And we've heard calls from U.S. lawmakers to have him released. We could see him coming back to the United States alongside Evan Gershkovich and Paul Whelan.

We don't know where they're going to land in the U.S. Obviously that could be a variety of airports. But what is likely to happen is that they would be offered medical and psychological services in Texas. There's the Brooke Army Medical Complex -- Medical Center, rather. This is part of the biggest medical complex in the Department of Defense system. And we have seen Brittney Griner and Trevor Reed go there in the past. It's in San Antonio. And they have a program called a Post-Isolation Support Activities, often referred to as PISA, and that helps people who have been in captivity, who have suffered traumatic events, to get back on their feet, essentially, both through medical and psychological support.

So, this day is going to be -- it's going be complicated. There are going to be a lot of moving parts. It's going to be full of emotion and full of history. But there's a lot that is going to happen. We believe we are just at the beginning stages of that.

Guys.

BOLDUAN: Wow, so much -- so much is going to happen today. First and foremost, everything that leads up to getting these people to wherever it is -- wherever they're going to be to have this swap happened, just that a moment we're going to actually see the first video of it, it's so -- I'm so much looking forward to it. It's so anticipated after so many years, especially for Paul Whelan.

JIMENEZ: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Paul Whelan has spoken to CNN several times throughout his imprisonment. One of those times in the wake of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny's death. And Whelan spoke candidly then about his own fears that he could also be killed.

[09:40:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL WHELAN: It's extremely troubling that someone like Navalny would die under suspicious circumstances. But it's also extremely worrying for me that this is the sort of thing that goes on here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Let's bring in right now CNN contributor, former CNN Moscow bureau chief, Jill Doherty, CNN national security analyst Steve Hall, and CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger is back with us as well.

Steve, I want to start with you. Just give me your reaction and what you're thinking about in this moment as we are all waiting for this to unfold.

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, I think everything that Alex and other reporters have been talking about is absolutely the case. You know, I've seen these things happened before. They're extremely complicated. It's not easy for those of us on the outside because these negotiations and then the arrangements, shared agreements be made are extremely, you know, they're very -- they're very close held.

But I think it's really important also to remember the context here. You know, this is not a court proceeding. These are not legal proceedings in Russia. This is a farce. This is hostage taking on the part of the Russians and they force us then to do what us and other countries are in the process of trying to do now, which is essentially negotiate, hopefully in good faith, to get our own national citizens back where they belong after they've been kidnapped in Russia.

It's going to be a long and interesting day, and it will be interesting to see how it all breaks down. But those are my initial thoughts.

JIMENEZ: And, Jill, I want to bring you in here because, look, you're the former Moscow bureau chief for us at CNN. And one of the things that I think, as we await potential images of a plane landing on a runway, that's how it's going to be reported here in the United States as we continue to watch for it.

But as far as information trickling out in Russia goes, what is the perspective from a Russian citizen going to be over what actually took place here?

JILL DOUGHERTY, FORMER MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, I think that's a really good question. There is no question that the person who decides this is Vladimir Putin. And so when he wants news to break, it will break in the -- in the Russian media, which are essentially at this point completely propaganda (INAUDIBLE). So, it will be presented in Russia as whatever Putin wants. So, you have to kind of climb into Putin's mind, which we, of course, can't do.

But, number one, he is a former KGB agent. And when you talk about the main person that he wanted back, it's an FSB, the former KGB, officer who has been held in Germany. So, that's number one.

Now, do Russians care that, you know, a KGB guy came back? Maybe. But I think it could also be presented as President Putin being able to muster a lot of diplomacy to get what he wants. He's a very transactional person. And so I think my question is, when, you know, I learned about this, were really why and why now? And it's extremely complex, as everybody has been pointing out. But I think I just throw into the mix here that since the invasion, the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, a lot of Russian intelligence agents have been rolled up, as they say, around the world. And there actually are quite a few people scattered in different countries. You know, Slovenia, here in the United States, Germany, et cetera. So, they -- you know, once we see the entire plan, I think it would be very interesting to see potentially how this came together.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

David, what do you think about how far the impact could reach of a massive -- of, you know, a massive swap like this? No one obviously thinks that after this diplomatic relations between the United States and Russia completely unfreeze, absolutely not. But what do you think the -- maybe the longer term kind of tentacles of impact could be from this today?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, it's a great question, Kate, because, as we've noted before, this would be assuming it happens, and we all want to be quite cautious since nothing is as happened yet.

But if it does happen, this would be the third case of a swap. And if the rumors are clear -- are true, it may be -- well be the largest.

So then the question is, is Putin simply doing this to avoid leaving intelligence officers, about whom he feels deeply given his own past in the KGB on the battlefield or does he see this as a moment to indicate, in the midst of a U.S. presidential election and so forth, that he may be open to negotiations?

He has at various moments said that he would negotiate on Ukraine but with the condition, of course, that he gets to hold on to all the land that is currently -- he's taken, which is nearly 20 percent of the country.

[09:45:08]

And, of course, the U.S. position has been only the Ukrainians could agree to give that up.

So now the question is, could this be the beginning of a back-channel between him, the U.S., NATO and the Ukrainians? I have my doubts that anybody could do that in the midst -- in the last, you know, 98 days of a presidential campaign, or 97 days of that, but at least it shows an opening.

And remember there's one other big thing that's cooking with Russians at this point. We are 18 months away from the expiration of the last big arms control treaty, New Start. And if that expires with no successor, and right now there is no sign of one, we're off to a big arms race, which would be expensive for both sides, but particularly offensive for Putin.

JIMENEZ: David Sanger, Jill Dougherty, Steve Hall, really appreciate your time and perspective.

Just a quick reset for everyone before we continue with this breaking news, a large-scale prisoner swap is underway as multiple sources have told CNN, a prisoner swap between the United States and Russia that we do understand includes Paul Whelan and Evan Gershkovich. We're continuing to get details for you. We'll have more on that coming up after the break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:51:11] JIMENEZ: Welcome back, everyone, to the major breaking news. A massive prisoner exchange is underway between the United States and Russia. The details of this, we are still trying to track down. But what we do know is Americans Paul Whelan and Evan Gershkovich are expected to be in included. Both of them falsely jailed on espionage charges. Gershkovich has spent the last 13 months behind bars, while Whelan has spent the better part of six years fighting for his freedom.

Joining us now is CNN's senior White House correspondent Kayla Tausche with more.

Kayla, what are you hearing over there at the White House?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, Omar, the delivery of Americans or anyone wrongfully detained back to their home country is a noble goal regardless of who is undertaking it. But given that this is likely to be happening in the year 2024, there will be a political backdrop that is inevitable to this situation.

You may remember that at the end of June, Donald Trump, who, of course, is running for president for the Republican ticket, who formerly held this office, said that if he were elected, he would be the one who would be freeing Evan Gershkovich. And back in December 2022, he criticized President Biden at the time for the deal that he secured to release WNBA star Brittany Griner in exchange for the Soviet arms dealer nicknamed the merchant of death. President Trump, former President Trump, suggesting at the time that he had turned down a deal while he was in office for Paul Whelan in exchange for Viktor Bout, the so-called merchant of death, but then criticized President Biden for freeing Brittney Griner but not freeing Paul Whelan alongside her.

So, certainly there is going to be a political discussion that follows this. But I think that President Biden has talked for years about his ability and his work behind the scenes to strengthen the alliances of the United States overseas. And there is no question that the U.S. and the White House in particular needed to lean on some of those alliances with multiple countries in order to secure the potential for a deal like this to happen. So, certainly, expect that to be something that we hear from the White House if and when this deal is to happen, and something that we'd expect to hear from Democrats more broadly.

BOLDUAN: Yes, absolutely.

Kayla is at the White House for us, going to be bring us any updates she hears from there.

Still here with us is Jonathan Franks, spokesperson for the Bring Our Families Home campaign. He was involved in the release and helping to secure the release of former U.S. Marine Trevor Reed in 2022.

It's underway as all the reporting and what all the sources are saying. We haven't seen the video. We have not had confirmation that they are in -- now out of Russian custody, in U.S. custody. How touch and go are these moments that we are sitting in right now? JONATHAN FRANKS, SPOKESPERSON, BRING OUR FAMILIES HOME: I'm not sure

there's anything more touch and go than a hostage recovery like this. And, you know, when we see it as Americans on TV, that's because Ambassador Carstens (ph) and his team has spent the better part of weeks or a month orchestrating and choreographing these in hopes of nothing going wrong at the last possible second.

But, you know, assuming one is underway, I do think the first we will see if it will be on Russian TV.

BOLDUAN: Yes, they -- as -- if past is precedent, that is how they've orchestrated in the past.

JIMENEZ: And just to back up just even a little bit, what -- how intricate are these details, and especially as we understand could involve multiple countries and multiple prisoners and multiple context, and especially when you're dealing with folks that some might not view as equals, an arms dealer for an athlete. What is that dynamic in some of these final moments?

FRANKS: You know, I've been saying for a long time that the U.S. government ought to just do these prisoner trades, right, because letting these things linger, right, I understand, you know, giving -- you know, trading an arms dealer for a basketball player seems unequal.

[09:55:02]

Well, unfortunately, that's the reality of hostaging (ph). If we sat around and waited for equal deals, we'd bring nobody home. So, this was a pretty courageous deal assuming Krasikov is in it. And the, you know, also tremendous thanks to the German government. They were not wild about the idea of giving him back. So, they've done us a great service.

BOLDUAN: And talk about Krasikov a little bit. I mean he is -- he's a murderer. And if he is -- if he is part of the deal, that he would be -- he's the top name that everyone's been talking about.

FRANKS: For sure. He's assassin. Whether -- he's an FSB operative and an assassin. And the reason I'm not worried about giving him back to Russia is because I -- he's a made man. I think he'll be confined to Russia, Iran, and Venezuela the rest of his life. And, you know, that may be a punishment equivalent to being in jail.

JIMENEZ: And just as we await, again, hopefully some of those incredibly positive images getting us this final confirmation that we're still waiting on for -- with bated breath, what are those first moments like back home? How do you readjust after what I'm sure was such a harrowing time?

FRANKS: Each prisoner is unique. I've had prisoners come back that, for instance, wouldn't sleep on a bed because they'd been sleeping on concrete for so long that they couldn't actually sleep. I've seen prisoners that have been kept inside that keep all the shades drawn, and they need blackout shades because they've been held in the dark. It takes a minute to recalibrate. And one of the things the government does is they have a -- the army runs the world's most successful hostage reintegration program in San Antonio. And that program does a great job helping them get over the initial bumps in hurdles and really set them up for success.

And I will say, every client of mine that's ever gone through the San Antonio program has come out successfully.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And in this moment you're thinking -- really you have to think of Evan's family, Paul's family, and also the family that you worked so closely with, Trevor Reed's family, and what they are thinking about today, what Trevor Reed is thinking about today. It's a huge moment for so many and it is not over yet.

JIMENEZ: Of course.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely not.

So, thank you so much, Jonathan, for being here. Really appreciate you coming in so quickly and joining us.

And thank you all so much for being with us. Stay with us. Our breaking news coverage of what is a historic day in this prisoner swap underway between the United States and Russia continues after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)