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Walz Delivers Searing Rebuke; Trump Campaign to Paint Harris- Walz as Dangerously Liberal; Tim Pawlenty is Interviewed about Walz. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired August 07, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: But he served in a battalion command sergeant major position, which mean that's the senior enlisted member of a unit of about - well, it was an artillery battalion, so I would suggest it was probably about 600 soldiers. That's an adviser to a commander. In that case, a lieutenant colonel. He's the senior enlisted guy talking to the commander of an artillery battalion. Deployed to several places, none of which were combat, but he deployed in support of combat. You're talking about two different approaches. One's a Marine for one tour, the other one's an Army National Guardsman that served six different enlistments, a total of 24 years with a lot of experience in the military as a weekend warriors, they're called, the National Guard. And that's kind of a derogatory term because they do much more than serve on the weekends. They do a whole lot more than that. And this was a very dynamic career path, part-time, as he served as both a soldier and a citizen and the environment.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: General Mark Hertling, thanks so much for helping us understand all this.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: They are looking to keep their momentum going. The Harris-Walz campaign heads to Wisconsin this morning after raising $20 million in the hours after the big vice presidential announcement.

Donald Trump weighing in just moments ago with his thoughts on Harris' running mate and a possible debate.

And new data this morning on one of the central focuses of the campaign, abortion rights. The impact of restrictive state laws on the actual numbers of abortions in the United States.

Plus, what goes up must come down, eventually. Two astronauts, stuck in space for two months now. The latest setback to the return home.

I'm Sara Sidner, with John Berman. Kate Bolduan is out today. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BERMAN: All right, just moments ago, did Donald Trump maybe, sort of open the door to a non-Fox debate against Vice President Harris, kind of? It's hard to tell in the salad of words he just said out loud this morning. We promise a forensic analysis of all of them to figure out where the debate issue stands. But he did it during an interview where he was going after the new Democratic ticket and the selection of Minnesota Governor Tim Walz to be the running mate.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would say my reaction is, I can't believe it. I never thought this was going to be the one that was picked. He's a very, very liberal man. And he's a shocking pick. And I'm - I'm thrilled. I could not be more thrilled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now, on the subject of debates, as for vice presidential debates, this is what Governor Walz said about the possibility of facing Senator J.D. Vance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Like all regular people I grew up with in the heartland, J.D. studied at Yale, had his career funded by Silicon Valley billionaires, and then wrote a bestseller trashing that community. Come on. That's not what middle America is. And I got to tell you, I can't wait to debate the guy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, CNN's Eva McKend is in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, which will be the key stop on this new Harris-Walz campaign rollout. What are you expecting to see today?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, they are here to highlight the choice for blue wall voters. Governor Walz, as a child of the Midwest, expected to tell his fellow Midwesterners that Trump-Vance, they not like us. That they will pursue policies that undermine unions. That they will pursue policies that allow tax breaks for the rich. And that a Harris administration would not only ensure that Americans get by, but that they can get ahead.

The campaign also arguing that they have the infrastructure in this state and throughout the region to really get this done, 400 staff, 100 field offices.

Take a listen to how the governor is going against Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Donald Trump sees the world a little differently than us.

First of all, he doesn't know the first thing about service. He doesn't have time for it because he's too busy serving himself. Violent crime was up under Donald Trump.

That's not even counting the crimes he committed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: And, John, I think that it is instructive to look at the policies that the governor pursued in Minnesota, like a generous child tax credit, free college for families who earned less than $80,000 a year, and expanding the supply of affordable housing.

[09:05:07]

He is able to talk about these progressive policies in a way that is palatable for swing voters. And so he likely will make that case today.

I'm also hearing from college students here on the ground that attend universities in Wisconsin, that a lot of them are actually from Minnesota, so they know this governor well. So, after this stop here in Wisconsin, they then head on to Michigan. And then they'll continue to make their case in Arizona and Nevada.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Eva McKend in Eau Claire.

Needless to say, the Trump campaign sees this a little bit differently. Our Alayna Treene is covering them. Let's find out what they're saying this morning.

Alayna.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, John, they're very much racing to define Tim Walz, especially before they think that the rest of the country can make up their minds about him themselves.

Now, part of that plan is to attack him as someone who is radically liberal. They're trying to paint him as more liberal than Kamala Harris and Joe Biden. And, look, some of that's going to be a little bit difficult because if you look back to his record in Congress, he spent 12 years as a congressman from Minnesota, he was viewed more so as a moderate Democrat. Part of the things that he did were vote with Republicans on strengthening the border. He pushed for deficit reductions by trillions of dollars. He also had the backing of the NRA.

Now, one thing that the Trump campaign is planning to paint him as is anti-cop and anti-gun. That is something you can probably expect Walz and his team to push back on. But I will say the NRA did ultimately pull their support of him when he was governor. And that's why you're going to see the Trump campaign really try to focus on his positions over the last four years.

Walz was much more progressive as a governor. Some of the things that he did. He enshrine (ph) abortion rights into law. He protected the rights of gender affirming care. He moved to expand universal gun background checks. These are the things that the Trump campaign is seizing on. They are trying to paint him as being very progressive. They're trying to portray both Harris and Walz as being representative of California, San Francisco Democrats, not middle America, as you just heard Eva lay out. That is what Walz is trying to do.

Now, I also just want to point your attention to some other notable things they're going to do. They're going to try to go after him for his handling of the protests when it came to the aftermath of the murder of George Floyd. Again, really trying to harp on all of the more controversial aspects that they can find. And this has really had kind of a struggle that they've had over the last several weeks in their efforts to define Harris. Of course, remember, they have spent their entire election cycle thus far up until about a month ago, or a couple weeks ago I should say, focused on Joe Biden. And so they're really racing to try and figure out which attacks stick, both for Harris and now for Walz.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Alayna Treene in Washington. Thanks so much, Alayna.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, joining us now to continue the conversation, CNN political commentator and former Obama administration official, Van Jones. Also, CNN's senior political commentator and former special assistant to President George W. Bush, Scott Jennings.

If folks don't know that by now, since you gentlemen are on all the time. You're on more than I am.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We live here.

SIDNER: I mean, you live here.

You heard what Donald Trump said there. He is talking about debates, but he's also going on the attack, as we expected.

We also heard today from Tom Emmer, I spoke with him, the Minnesota Republican congressman, about his fellow home state lawmaker, Tim Walz. Here's what he said about Walz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TOM EMMER (R-MN): This guy who tries to come across as the affable midwestern is a left wing radical.

SIDNER: You tweeted this about Tim Walz, saying that he turned Minnesota into a liberal wasteland. So, I guess the question is, why do you think Minnesotans re-elected Tim Walz as their governor for a second term in 2022.

EMMER: Well, bottom line is, this is a guy who taxed - added - billed Minnesotans an additional $8 billion in new taxes and fees after blowing through $17.5 billion in surplus. He has now put our state on a path to economic disaster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: OK, so he talked about economic disaster. He also talked about calling them sort of anti-police and ultra-liberal. Those seem to be the three big attack lines right now.

Van, how do Democrats deal with these attacks?

JONES: Just let Walz keep talking because they continue to try to paint this guy as some berserkly radical, crazy person. And then when you hear from him, he doesn't sound that way at all. And he's not that way.

The things that he spent money on, on things that we need to be spending money on. Making sure that children don't go to school hungry, that's not a radical idea. Frankly, that's in the Bible, you need to be taken care of the so-called least of these. And so you have the most relatable Democrat and - and the policies he's fighting for are incredibly popular. They're going to have to go to name-calling.

[09:10:02]

Here's the problem the Republican Party's got. They have a bad man as their candidate. We've got a good man for our vice president. They can't make their bad man better, so they're going to try - try to make our good man look bad. That's all they've got because their - their - their candidate cannot survive scrutiny at all.

SIDNER: Interesting that President Trump himself said, oh, I thought it was going to be Josh Shapiro. Might have been a better choice.

What do you make of Walz and how it either hurts or helps the ticket as a Republican looking to bring them down?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I agree with Trump. I mean, I thought it was going to be Shapiro too. It's the must-win state. I guess he was too Jewish and too talented for this ticket.

Look, Walz is a standard issue liberal Democrat from a blue state. Crime is up. Student achievement is down. They spent a lot of money. They raised taxes. But that's what Democratic governors do in blue states. And that's OK.

What she did, in my opinion, was confirm her instincts. It's interesting to me that she has been trying to do away with the position she took in the 2020 presidential election. She never got out of 2019, but she took a lot of radical, liberal positions. She's been trying to walk those back.

Then she turns around and picks Walz, who is a traditional liberal Democrats. So, I think it's a confusing message from the Democratic campaign. Is Kamala Harris moderating herself or is she confirming to us what she really is, which is a very, very progressive liberal, probably more so than most of the country. SIDNER: Van, I want to talk about, you know, abortion, which is also on the ballot anyway you shape it. Not the number one issue, certainly, for - for voters. They have said time and again it's the economy and potentially immigration that's on the issue - that is the biggest issue. But it's certainly on the minds of people.

And here's how Tim Walz talked about his personal experience with IVF, which Democrats also saying is under attack as well.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: This gets personal for me and my family. When my wife and I decided to have children, we spent years going through infertility treatments. And I remember praying every night for a call for good news. The pit in my stomach, when the phone rang, and the agony when we heard that the treatments hadn't worked. So it wasn't by chance that when we welcome our daughter into the world, we named her Hope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: This rally, when you look at what happened during this rally, and the sentiment and feeling that you got from it, what did this do for Democrats?

JONES: I think it did a lot. You know, the Obama campaign, it was about hope and change.

SIDNER: Hope and change, right.

JONES: Hope and change. This is about Hope and Gus. His kids are named Hope and Guas. And I think the relatability of that.

You have a radical, radical movement in this country and it's in the Republican Party about taking freedom away from women. That's what this movement is about. And you can say whatever you want to, Project 2025 is very clear. They want to take more freedoms away from women. And even if Congress doesn't vote for it, a President Trump can just have the FDA outlawed the drugs that are used for abortion, and you would have a ban on day one.

And so this is a major, major fight. It's one thing to have a woman like Kamala speaking about it, Vice President Harris speaking about it. But to have a man, a dad, a father speaking about IVF, I thought, was powerful.

SIDNER: Trump did say this morning - it sounded like a little bit of a tone change. Yes, I'm going to debate. I plan to debate. Do you think he's doing that particularly because he sees this momentum shift from the RNC, where it looked like the Republicans were really on their high horse, it seemed exciting, to this new ticket, which there's a lot of excitement around it?

JENNINGS: Well, it may be the only way to get Kamala Harris to answer questions. I mean she's not sat down with any journalist, that I know of. She's been pretty good in front of a teleprompter, but she refuses to come and answer questions about her time as vice president, her record, when she ran for president, her record in the Senate in which she was the most liberal U.S. senator. So, at some point, she's going to have to answer some questions. And it may be that a debate stage is the only place Donald Trump can get that done.

So, if I were him, I would be saying yes to some debates. I would be trying to get those on the schedule now because if they don't, people are not going to know the real Harris record, other than through paid media, which has its limitations.

And so, I think debates are very necessary here. And if he can get her on the stage, which I think she would want to do as well, he may have a fighting chance of showing the United States just how liberal left of center this ticket really is.

SIDNER: She has been criticized for not sitting down for an interview, for not doing a press conference. When should that come? If you are looking at this particular coupling, when should that come?

JONES: As soon as possible.

SIDNER: OK.

JONES: Look, I think they've played it smart and - it's hard for people to remember, she's been running for president for two weeks.

SIDNER: Right.

JONES: Literally for two weeks. And so she had to get a lot done in those two weeks. She had to get the base of her party. She had to get the actual nomination. She had to pick a VP. So, I'm not mad that she's not doing 15 interviews a day, but it can't last. It's very important. And we can't, you know, make favors (ph). Anybody running for the top office needs to be as available as possible.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you, Van, you said something last night that - yes, I was up and I was watching it. You said something last night that I thought was really interesting. You talked about this weird line that it came up by Tim Walz, he put it out there, and how it has diminished power.

[09:15:01]

Explain how you feel like it's diminished Trump's power.

JONES: Well - well, look, I mean, I think we - we are terrified of Donald Trump. We are afraid, as Democrats, if he gets into office, he may never come back out except, you know, 20 years from now in a - in a body bag just because he is so committed to staying in power. And so we've, I think, talked about authoritarianism, we're talking about fascism.

SIDNER: He would call them dangerous.

JONES: Calling them dangerous. All sorts of stuff. In some ways it's been building him up and building him up.

And I think when Walz comes along and says, the guy's just weird, it punctures the kind of Trump balloon. It's - it's - it's - it -it pulls him back down to earth and start thinking that, he is weird. He says weird stuff. He does weird stuff. He talks about Hannibal Lecter, the guys (INAUDIBLE) - and suddenly your opponent doesn't seem so intimidating. He almost seems laughable. And one of the ways you go after authoritarians is, you laugh at them.

SIDNER: A quick word on that, the weird line.

JENNINGS: I mean Republicans think what Democrats do is weird. For instance, when you're the governor of Minnesota and you let Minneapolis burn for four days, Republicans would say that is weird. And so I don't particularly think this debate is going to make the biggest difference in the campaign. I think it's going to be policies. If Trump will stay disciplined and make it about policies, that's - that's where he's going to have to win this thing is, who do you think is better to make your life, your quality of life better? That - that's the bottom line for the Republicans, discipline on message will deliver the day, undisciplined, it gets dicey.

SIDNER: And to be clear, Tim Walz was criticized for not bringing in the National Guard. It was for two days. On the third day he did bring the National Guard during that conflagration (ph) in Minneapolis. So -

JONES: It's so interesting - it's interesting to talk about that. You've got a president who had an insurrection happening and did nothing about it. So, you know, if we want to argue about who handles unrest, we can talk about it.

SIDNER: And I think that will be a talking point.

JONES: Yes.

SIDNER: We will see that come up again and again.

Van Jones, Scott Jennings, thank you, gentlemen, for being here.

John.

BERMAN: All right, the stock markets open in just a few minutes. Futures, look at that, point to a big opening. It has been one wild ride this week.

And how is this not a bigger deal? We have a new update on the two astronauts who went to the International Space Station for what was supposed to be two weeks in June. Now after two months they are still there.

And the U.S. soccer team will play for gold for the first time since 2012.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:21:49] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Like all regular people I grew up with in the heartland, J.D. studied at Yale, had his career funded by Silicon Valley billionaires, and then wrote a bestseller trashing that community. Come on. That's not what middle America is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, that was Minnesota Governor Tim Walz leaning into his own midwestern roots as he has become the pick to be the running mate of Vice President Kamala Harris on the Democratic ticket. What a few weeks it has been.

Now, one guy who may know a thing or two about midwestern roots and being a governor of Minnesota, the former Republican governor of Minnesota, Tim Pawlenty, is with us now.

Governor, thanks so much for being with us.

You're more of a hockey guy. Walz is a football guy. How big of a problem is that?

TIM PAWLENTY (R), FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: Not a problem at all. Those are things Republicans and Democrats can agree on.

BERMAN: What do you make of this pick? I know you would have loved to have seen a Minnesotan picked as a running mate maybe in 2008 and 2012 when you were on the shortlist. But what do you think of having a governor of Minnesota as a running mate?

PAWLENTY: I know Tim Walz. I've done things with him. I spent time with him. I like him. He's folksy. He's personable. He's got a good, engaging personality.

That being said, his policy views and mine are very different. And he, by his own self declaration, is the most progressive governor in the United States, now on a ticket with the previously ranked most liberal senator in the Senate. So, if you have those two folks together running the country, you know, an important question is, what could go wrong? And I think the answer is, a lot.

BERMAN: You know, it's interesting because that's a contrast I think that everyone is aware of now. You have Tim Walz, everyone saw him on stage and saw what he could do, and that's what the Democrats are leaning into and leaning into his biography. And you have Republicans out talking about his record today.

Why do you think - I'm going to ask you to think like a Democrat now - why do you think that Democrats are OK with that contrast, that what the pluses are may outweigh the minuses?

PAWLENTY: I think because they're going to run a base campaign, John, I think they think they have more voters than the Republicans do and they wanted to pick somebody who wouldn't alienate any part of their base because if their base is fully energized and optimizes voter turnout, they think they can win with that model.

And the other contenders for the VP slot may have been for more interesting states from an Electoral College perspective, but they were each perceived as having baggage, at least from the perspective of within the Democratic Party.

In Mark Kelly's case, he apparently ticked off one of the private sector unions. In Shapiro's case, he was viewed as too pro-Israel in a party that is increasingly got a pro-Palestinian constituency. And he was for school choice. And so they couldn't start the campaign with a VP candidate that ticked off part of their base if they're running a base campaign.

BERMAN: Yes, just a note on Shapiro, his views on Israel, basically the same as everyone else who was in contention right now. So that may have been some kind of an unfair labeling right there.

I want to play a little bit of what we heard from Governor Walz last night and asked for you to explain the why.

[09:25:03]

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Thank you for bringing back the joy.

Don't ever underestimate the power of this. She does it all with a sense of joy.

This leader, this compassionate, careful, joyous leader.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So joy, hope, future. When you were running for office, you were always leaning into the more positive, hopeful side. Why do you think that's attractive? Why do you think the Democrats are doing that now?

PAWLENTY: Look, people like other people who are positive, optimistic, joyful, and pleasant to be around. And so that's just - not just politics, it's life. So, that's a plus in politics. And I think Governor Walz is correct to point that out.

On the other hand, when people go vote, they care a lot about things like out-of-control illegal immigration, runaway inflation, runaway crime, wokeness run amuck and more. And so the joy is great but at the end of the day you also got to bring the right issues, especially to persuadable voters in swing states. And I think the Walz-Harris, or Harris-Walz ticket is going to have a lot of explaining to do in places like Pennsylvania.

BERMAN: How do you think the rollout has been on the Republican side for Senator J.D. Vance over the last two weeks? PAWLENTY: Well, I think the rollout has been -

BERMAN: That was a laugh. Let the record show - let the record show that your first response was - was an uncontrolled laugh there. But go ahead.

PAWLENTY: It was joy, John.

BERMAN: Yes.

PAWLENTY: It was joy. It was joy.

It's clunky. It was clunky. He's got a - he's got a, you know, great life story, like a lot of the politicians do. But, you know, his initial rollout, presentation, reception, and some of the awkwardness of his responses and record, you know, it's clunky.

BERMAN: Clunky. Awkward. I'm not - you didn't use weird, but you said awkward and clunky. It's what the Democrats have called weird.

What do you see or how would you describe the contrast between Walz and Vance? What we might see if we see them on stage together.

PAWLENTY: Yes, and I know Governor Walz is going to - he's an energetic campaigner. He can communicate, give a speech. I used to say he could talk dogs off a meat wagon. You know, and he's sort of like Bernie Sanders in - in hunting gear. And J.D. Vance got off to a tough start for the reasons we just mentioned, but he's very capable. Obviously, this is somebody with his own impressive resume, his own impressive thought process and presentation style. And I think he can, you know, come back from that. And I think that would be a great debate to watch. They're two very capable people with very different world views and philosophies and policy positions.

BERMAN: All right, Governor Tim Pawlenty, nice to talk to you this morning. Always great to see you. Appreciate your time.

PAWLENTY: Good to be with you, John. Thank you.

BERMAN: Sara.

SIDNER: John, I'm surprised you kept it together when he said talk dogs often a meat wagon. That's probably the best line of the day.

All right.

BERMAN: Minnesota.

SIDNER: Thank you so much.

All right, abortion rights are a major issue, as you know, in this election. This morning, there's new data showing the surprising outcome to the slew of new state laws limiting abortion access. We'll tell you what those numbers are coming up. And plus, we are moments away, of course, from the opening bell. We

will see how traders will respond this morning about what you might - should or should not do when it comes to your 401k.

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