Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Former Aide to New York Govs Hochul, Cuomo Charged with Acting as Chinese Government Agent; Trump Allies Look to Use Revised Indictment to their Advantage; Kamala Harris Leads Donald Trump in Michigan and Wisconsin in New Poll; Both Presidential Candidates Preparing for Upcoming Debate; Sen. Chris Van Hollen Interviewed about Presidential Race and Need for Continued U.S. Support of Ukraine against Ongoing Russian Invasion. Aired: 8-8:30a ET

Aired September 04, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Now, these charges were filed back in February, John, but they were just unsealed this week. And officials from DOJ say one of the reasons for that is because one of the folks who is listed in this, political leader of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh, he was actually murdered in Iran earlier this year. And so they essentially tried to keep these charges sealed in an effort to try and arrest some of the Hamas leaders who are listed in this. But after that murder and after a number of things that have happened, they decided they no longer needed to do that.

We'll continue watching this space because Garland did say that they're going to continue taking action here. And we should also note that the Biden administration says that while they are pursuing justice, while they are seeking to hold Hamas accountable for the deaths of so many Americans as this war has unfolded, they're also continuing to try and clinch an actual deal, a hostage release deal, a ceasefire deal that so far hasn't come to fruition. But those efforts remain underway.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Kylie Atwood, thank you very much for that.

A brand new hour, a news fiesta of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with breaking news this morning, new polling numbers across six crucial swing states as the candidates prepare for their high-stakes presidential debate. Who is ahead, and where?

Plus, secret agent allegations. The former aide to two New York governors accused of receiving lavish gifts in exchange for acting as an agent for the Chinese government.

And a Texas driver trapped in his car after flash flooding in San Antonio, the terrifying moments as the water rose, all of it caught on video.

I'm Sara Sidner with Kate Bolduan and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The new CNN polling out today with an important look at the state of the race in the battlegrounds that have proven to be most important, where things stand in six battlegrounds. There is a whole lot of data. We're going to get into it.

The top lines -- Harris has the advantage in Michigan and Wisconsin, Trump has the advantage in Arizona. And then there's the proof of just how close the race the 60 plus days out. They're essentially tied in the key battlegrounds Nevada, Georgia, and Pennsylvania. Dive into these states, Harris has an eye-popping lead over Trump among women. Trump has a huge edge over Harris when it comes to the economy.

And remember, six days from the debate, just 62 days to the election, people are going to be voting even before that, as CNN political director David Chalian likes to remind us all of the time. Importantly, I gave a bit of the over. Can you take us, dive me into the states and these topline numbers?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. Like you said, Kate, a whole lot of data. I urge everyone also to check it out on our website. But in these brand new CNN polls, you see how close this race is. You noted, these are the top line numbers here, that Harris has an outside the margin of error, slight lead in Wisconsin. She also has an outside the margin of error, slight lead in Michigan. You also noted that in Arizona, Donald Trump has a slight outside the margin of error lead. But in Georgia, Nevada, Pennsylvania, no clear leader within the margin of error. This shows that the candidates have multiple paths to 270, but that this is indeed a toss-up race.

And you mentioned the gender gap. Take a look here, look at these numbers, Kate. Among female likely voters in these states, you see this is 17 percentage point lead and Wisconsin among female voters for Harris, a 16 percentage point lead in Michigan. You see it gets more narrowed down here in Arizona. But the flipside of that is male voters. You see Donald Trump's advantage, very significant with male voters, 18 points in Nevada, 15 point advantage in Pennsylvania. That's the gap when we talk about the gender gap, Harris's advantage with women in addition to Trump advantage with men, and who wins that battle, who extends that advantage could have a lot to say in these battleground states.

BOLDUAN: How does it break down, and what is sticking out to you in terms of you're talking about a gender gap, but how about how things are falling along racial lines?

CHALIAN: Well, if you take a look here, among black voters, where we oversampled and able to look at the black voting population in three of the states, Michigan, Georgia, and Pennsylvania, take a look here, 86 percent of black voters in Michigan are with Harris, 11 percent with Trump, 85 percent in Georgia, 84 percent of black voter support in Pennsylvania. I just want to note that in Pennsylvania in 2020, Joe Biden, according to exit polls, his number among black voters was 92 percent.

[08:05:01] So there's still room here for Harris to grow and consolidate the black vote, which is going to be necessary if she is going to win in places like Georgia and Pennsylvania, which are clearly in play here in toss-up races. Among Latino voters, you see in Nevada that Kamala Harris has a big advantage there. She an eight percentage point advantage. But look at the advantage that Trump has in Arizona with Latino voters. He is 43 percent to 37 percent, a six percentage point advantage in Arizona. So Latino split here in those two southwestern states.

And if you look at the white voters without college degrees, this is a Trump base constituency, obviously, you see his huge numbers with this group. You see that this is a trouble sign for Harris. She also in a place like Georgia is not doing well with white college-educated voters. She probably wants to make up some ground with white college- educated voters across these battlegrounds as well, Kate.

BOLDUAN: An important gut check for both campaigns and on multiple levels in multiple states is what's coming out here. It's great to see you, David. Thank you so much.

CHALIAN: Sure.

BOLDUAN: A lot there, John.

BERMAN: There is so much information there to dig through, and everyone should go to CNN.com to check out the poll, look at all the tabs right there. You can dig through it. It all means that this race is really, really close, which means that the debate just six days from now, is super important. And we've got some new reporting this morning on how the campaigns, the candidates are preparing, or maybe more accurately, how they want us to think they are preparing for this debate. CNN's Kevin Liptak, with the details this morning. Kevin?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, and the most interesting dynamic to me is that this is the first time that Kamala Harris and Donald Trump will actually meet face-to-face. And it's a moment that both of them I think are thinking about pretty intently in the leadup to that debate. For Kamala Harris that means policy sessions with a small team of advisers, talking about some of the issues that are likely to arise on the debate stage, talking about how to respond to some attacks. From Trump, all with the objective of trying to keep cool but also trying to get under Donald Trump's skin in some ways.

And she has enlisted a stand-in to play Donald Trump in these mock debates, the former Hillary Clinton aide Philippe Reines. He played Trump in Hillary Clinton's debate prep back in 2016. So he has some experience on that front.

For Donald Trump, his team doesn't like to use the word "preparation." They say that he's engaging in policy sessions, again, with a team of advisers. There is a new face on this team this time around, the former Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard who actually shared a debate stage with Kamala Harris back in 2019 when both were running for the Democratic nomination. Now, if there is an advantage that Donald Trump has heading into this debate is that he has now participated in the most general election debates of any candidate in history. He's been the Republican nominee for the last three cycles. And when you talk to Harris advisers, they say that means she's entering this debate as an underdog. And for that reason, she does plan to head out to Pittsburgh later this week to engage in some debate camp. She won't remain ensconced for the entire weekend. She will head out to do some campaign stops. But her team very much wants to focus on the issues and on the debate a heading into next week.

We will see her on the campaign trail today in New Hampshire. She's focusing on small businesses and entrepreneurship. She plans to announce a new plan, a tenfold increase in the small business tax deduction, businesses able to deduct $50,000 in startup expenses. New Hampshire is not traditionally one of the battleground states that we talk about. Democrats had been worried a little bit when Joe Biden was the nominee. It does seem like Kamala Harris has firmed up the New Hampshire polls now, but it is very indicative that she is not leaving any electoral votes on the map.

BERMAN: Yes, and of course, Donald Trump with a pretty light week this week. So one might want to be skeptical of the claim that he's not doing as much debate prep as his aides like to purport. All right, Kevin Liptack, thank you so much. Great reporting.

Sara?

SIDNER: All right, joining me now to discuss is Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. He is also a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Thank you, sir, for coming in early this morning for us. I do want to first start with the brand new CNN polls across six battleground states, finding that Georgia and Pennsylvania are really key toss-ups. In Georgia, 48 percent back Harris to 47 percent for Trump. And in Pennsylvania, the candidates are in a dead heat. With numbers that are that close, are you concerned about what may happen if there is no clear winner on November 5th?

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, Sara, it's good to be with you. Look, I always worry about Donald -- what Donald Trump will do if he loses the race but refuses to concede.

[08:10:00]

As those polls show, these are going to be very hard-fought races in these battleground states. But we know from history that Donald Trump is a sore loser and still has not conceded his loss against Joe Biden in the last election. So yes, I always worry about that. But right now, we need to be focused, as the vice president is, as Tim Walz is, on winning these states.

SIDNER: You sit on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and federal prosecutors have just released that they've charged members of Hamas, some of the top members, six of them in the October 7th massacre. These charges are coming at a time when the White House is really trying to salvage a ceasefire deal after Hamas executed hostages in Gaza this past week. What can you tell us about how this might affect the possibility of having those talks when you have six high-level members of Hamas under indictment?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I think the Jeremy Diamond and the attorney general was right to bring these charges against these Hamas terror members for the attacks of October 7th. And as the attorney general said, they'll continue to develop those.

I don't think, Sara, this will have impact on the state of the negotiations. We do need to get a ceasefire now and a return of all the hostages now. I agree with those hostage families who are protesting in Israel against Netanyahu, who have pointed out that he's been dragging his feet. We need both Netanyahu and Hamas at the table and accept that proposal that President Biden has put on the table.

SIDNER: Let's move now to Ukraine. We saw a terrible massive attack this week. The foreign minister now in Ukraine has resigned. But what do you think this means as this cabinet is seeing a very big shuffling right now, the largest that we've seen since the war began in 2022? What does this mean, do you think, for Zelenskyy's government and the trajectory of this deadly war?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, as you said, it appears that this will be a reshuffling of some of these portfolios. Look, one of the things President Zelenskyy has done very well from the beginning is he understands that this is a dynamic war. Things change, and he has adapted as things have gone.

Look, the key is to make sure that the people of Ukraine continue to get them material support to fight Putin's war of aggression. We were talking about our campaign here at home. The reality is that Donald Trump and J.D. Vance would throw the Ukrainian people under the bus. So the stakes are high for democracy in Ukraine and around the world. So it's going to be very important that we continue to support President Zelenskyy and the people of Ukraine at this moment.

SIDNER: But Ukraine says now with this administration that the rules that are being imposed by the U.S. make their military unable to prevent missile attacks. They want to be able to attack Russia with long-range missiles. Do you think that's something that is being considered? Are you talking about it in your particular group of senators?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I do believe that that we should provide Ukrainians with more flexibilities, specifically to be able to hit targets that are the source of missiles being fired against Ukraine. I imagine the Biden administration is looking at that possibility, but -- and that's an important discussion to have. But again, when it comes to, Donald Trump and J.D. Vance, they're talking about cutting off military assistance effectively to Ukraine. So yes, I believe that we should allow more flexibility for the Ukrainian use of U.S. weapons. The main thing is that we maintain our support.

SIDNER: Do you see it as a real possibility, you're talking about J.D. Vance and Donald Trump, if they were put into office, that they would completely pull out all U.S. aid to Ukraine? VAN HOLLEN: Oh, I think that's a very real possibility. I mean, if you

look at what they have said, they have effectively sided with Putin in this in this war. So no, I think that is a very real danger. And I know that our NATO allies and others around the world are nervous about the prospect of a Trump-Vance administration pulling out support for those who support democracy and freedom around the world.

SIDNER: Senator Chris Van Hollen, thank you so much for showing up this morning and talking about these difficult issues. Appreciate you. Kate?

[08:15:00]

BOLDUAN: A former top aide to two New York governors charged with acting as a secret for agent for the Chinese government. What prosecutors say she was trying to do and why.

The risk of mosquito-borne illnesses is forcing organizers to cancel Oktoberfest activities in at least one state. What you need to know now about EEE and other threats out there.

Elton John says he has lost much of his vision in one eye. We have the very latest on his recovery from a severe eye infection.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:20:10]

BOLDUAN: A stunning indictment now accuses a former top aide to the New York governor of acting as an agent for the Chinese government. Her name is Linda Sun.

She served at one point as the deputy chief-of-staff to Governor Kathy Hochul. She was also an aide to Hochul's predecessor, Andrew Cuomo.

But according to the US attorney, Sun's real focus, they alleged, was to try and steer policy in a Beijing-friendly direction.

Now, both she and her husband pleading not guilty to multiple charges.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino has more on this, tracking what's coming out and what is a shocking set of events and in this indictment, what more are you learning?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, and I think the obvious question is when you hear Chinese policy and you're thinking about the New York State government. You're wondering how those all go together?

BOLDUAN: Not how, why?

PAZMINO: But the federal prosecutors are alleging that in her position, Linda Sun used her influence and her job in order to steer the Taiwanese community here in New York away from the New York governor at the request of the Chinese government and the Communist Party. And she did that according to the prosecutors, because the Chinese

government was directing her to do so. In order to do this, she received several kickbacks, including millions of dollars in gifts, tickets to events, the salted duck that was delivered to her parent's home. That duck was prepared by the personal chef of one of these Chinese officials.

BOLDUAN: Just pause for a second. So people -- this is part of the indictment and something that's really been picked up on. It wasn't like dozens of these ducks --

PAZMINO: Yes.

BOLDUAN: -- that have salted ducks being served?

PAZMINO: Yes, and this is a special dish and that was delivered to her parents. This personal chef worked for a Chinese official and it's just one of the many things that prosecutors listed in this indictment that she received over the course of 10 years, right.

And that is really one of the big red flags of this indictment. How could this have gone on for so long and what did she have access to and what did she do with it? And I think that is all playing out in this investigation.

BOLDUAN: Is there anything said about why they think this went undetected for so long? Or how?

PAZMINO: So this is an interesting question, Kate. In the last year or so, we've seen a bit of a trend from the Department of Justice indicting and arresting people and even getting some conviction of people who were accused of being agents for the Chinese government.

We saw it last year. A man who was a convicted of spying for the Chinese government. And we saw it last year, two men were arrested for running a secret police station right here in New York City on behalf of the Chinese who was supposed to be surveying Chinese dissidents. So, it appears to be part of that trend and pattern.

The question here is how she could have gone undetected for so along by the New York government. Kathy Hochul has certainly tried to distance herself from this aide saying that she only worked for the executive chamber for a short amount of time and that as soon as there were red flags that were coming up like these unauthorized invitation letters that she was writing and unauthorized proclamations that they took care of it, and that they eventually terminated her.

BOLDUAN: Yes, Gloria, thank you very much for that. -- John.

BERMAN: All right, some in Donald Trump's circle hoping the Supreme Court immunity ruling and the new indictment from Jack Smith might mean they're getting off the hook.

And new video of the moment a driver is trapped in his car and carried away by a flash flood.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:02]

BERMAN: So, new this morning, will Donald Trump's former White House chief-of-staff, Mark Meadows and ex-Department of Justice official Jeffrey Clark evade prosecution at the state level, thanks to a retooled federal indictment by Special Counsel, Jack Smith. Will the Supreme Court immunity ruling factor into it?

This man you see in the TV screen right now, he might have some of the answers. CNN's senior legal analyst, former federal and state prosecutor, I am going to touch on bureau chief, Elie Honig.

Look, so Jack Smith put together this new indictment trying to comport with Supreme Court immunity ruling. In that, Jeffrey Clark, who is right there and that's Mark Meadows. Mark Meadows right there and Jeffrey Clark who was there a second ago, there he is right there, not mentioned nearly as much as unindicted co-conspirators, basically.

Why weren't they mentioned and what does it mean for them elsewhere?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So the first thing we need to say whenever we are discussing immunity is, this is all brand new. The whole notion of criminal immunity is now two months old and it takes years before we get to fully flesh these things out.

One thing we do know for sure is that the main beneficiary of immunity is the president or in this case the former president. What we don't know and we're in the process of figuring out is how does it impact other people?

And if we look at the new indictment Jack Smith returned last week, one of the main changes is he essentially erases Jeffrey Clark from the Justice Department and Mark Meadows from the new indictment. In fact, in the first indictment, Jeffrey Clark was listed as co- conspirator-four, CC4.

If you look at the new indictment, there is no CC4, it just goes one, two, three, five, six, And so, what Clark and Meadows are now trying to do is say, well, if immunity protects the president and from being prosecuted, it also protects us.

Remember they're being prosecuted in the state. So they're trying to use the immunity ruling to their own advantage.

BERMAN: And just to be clear, Jeffrey Clark, the Supreme Court basically said anything Donald Trump did with the Justice Department that falls under immunity.

HONIG: Right. And so, Jeffrey Clark is using that to say, A: I cannot be prosecuted, right? He's currently under state-level indictment in Georgia and in Arizona, and also Jeffrey Clark is using that to fight back against efforts to remove his bar license.

He is saying, hey, Supreme Court just said dealings between Donald Trump and DOJ, that's me, Jeffrey Clark, those are off the table criminally, but there is a fair question.

It's clear that immunity is intended to benefit and protect the president. It's not entirely clear that it's intended it to be a windfall for the other guy in the conversation. That's one of the things we'll learn.

[8:30:23]