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Trump Allies Look to Use Revised Indictment to their Advantage; Vevek Ramaswamy is Interviewed about the Presidential Race; Questions about Mosquito Bite Risks; Ukraine Parliament Shakeup. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired September 04, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: And also Jeffrey Clark's using that to fight back against efforts to remove his bar license. He's saying hey, the Supreme Court just said dealings between Donald Trump and DOJ, that's me, Jeffrey Clark, those are off the table criminally.

But there is a fair question. It's clear that immunity is intended to benefit and protect the president. It's not entirely clear that it's intended to be a windfall for the other guy in the conversation. And that's one of the things we'll learn.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And Jeffrey - not Jeffrey Clark, Jack Smith could argue with Mark Meadows in particular, the White House chief of staff also plays a campaign role.

HONIG: Right.

BERMAN: And suggested there was some Georgia interaction that was campaign related there.

HONIG: Yes, that's the key dividing line, was the conduct an official act or was it a private/campaign act? And he goes out of his way, Jack Smith, in the new indictment to say, everything that happened was unofficial. That's why, for example, Jack Smith, in the first indictment, calls Donald Trump the 45th president of the United States.

BERMAN: Right.

HONIG: In the second one, he doesn't. He's not trying to insult the guy. He's just saying, it's all private acts.

BERMAN: Very quickly. Tomorrow, Federal Judge Tanya Chutkan holds this hearing in the federal election subversion case. This is kind of a big deal in the sense that we haven't been in this courtroom in a long time.

HONIG: Yes, it's been a long time since we've had a live court session in front of Judge Chutkan. It looks like Donald Trump himself will not appear. That's why yesterday he entered on paper a not guilty plea. Usually you do that if the defendant, Donald Trump, is not going to physically appear.

But what the parties are going to do, Jack Smith's team will be there, Trump's lawyers will be there, they have to figure out what do they do now? How do they now take Jack Smith's new, shrunken down indictment and go through the process of arguing what can stay in it and what should come out. Because Trump's team, to be clear, they're happy with the reduced indictment, but they're not satisfy. Their position is not, OK, fine, let's go to trial. Their position is, all of this is immune. All of this indictment has to go away. And now they have to figure out, how are we going to go through this and decide what's in and what's out. Judge Chutkan ultimately has to make the call there.

BERMAN: Much more tomorrow as this happens.

HONIG: Yes.

BERMAN: Elie Honig, thank you so much.

HONIG: All right, John, thanks.

BERMAN: Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a new CNN poll shows a tight race between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. We have new reporting on how Trump's campaign is planning to move forward.

And if mosquitoes have been bugging you this summer, which is likely to have happened, Dr. Sanjay Gupta is answering your questions on how to stay safe knowing there are so many mosquito-borne illnesses out there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:50]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, new CNN polling shows just how the battleground race is looking right now and how close it is right now between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.

Kamala Harris holding an outside the margin of error lead in Wisconsin and Michigan. Donald Trump holding an outside the margin of error lead in Arizona. And according to likely voters surveyed by CNN, the candidates are essentially tied in Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Nevada.

This comes as the Trump campaign has also just put out a new memo saying that they are the team that has the momentum now 60 plus days out from the election.

Let's talk about that. Joining us right now is former Republican presidential candidate, and Trump campaign surrogate, Vivek Ramaswamy.

Thank you so much for coming in. It's good to see you.

So, the campaign memo also makes clear that part of the strategy right now is to continue to try to define Kamala Harris as extreme and radical. If you take a look inside this new polling from CNN of likely voters in these battleground states, though, the - what - what likely voters are saying is that is not yet working, showing the way we - the way we see it - the way the numbers show it is, showing voters largely described Harris' views and policies as mainstream and Trump's as too extreme across these states. About half in each state saying Trump's views and policies or so extreme they pose a threat to the country, while around four in ten say the same about Harris' position.

A lot of numbers, but the point being, is it - does it - if voters don't agree with the extreme - kind of the extreme narrative against Trump, do you think team Trump should be shifting now? Against Harris, sorry.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I actually disagree - I - I respectfully disagree with your characterization there in one important way, which is that voters have not yet been exposed, principally by the media, to what Kamala Harris' past positions actually are. I don't blame the voters. They've been served up a new version if Kamala Harris, where she is running to the center on economic and social policies.

But the reality is, if we're able to use Kamala Harris' own words against her, as I believe we should. She ran for president favoring a tax on unrealized capital gains, favoring an abolition, her words, to abolish private health insurance, a ban on fracking, bans on offshore drilling. These are the kinds of policies that absolutely are not mainstream for most Americans.

And this is where I do think the debate will be useful. I do think that greater media scrutiny of Kamala Harris, hopefully with more sit- down interviews than we've had so far, will be helpful. Say what you will. You may or may not agree with Donald Trump. He and J.D. Vance have sat for tens of interviews, as have other members of the campaign and surrogate team. The reality is, we haven't seen the same from Kamala Harris. I do expect that's going to change in the next couple of months. And I believe voters are going to be very well-informed heading into November.

BOLDUAN: Vivek, but on the - on banning health - private health insurance, she has said she does not believe that and she does not believe that now. On banning fracking, she has made clear, and she did in the interview with Dana Bash, that she does not support that anymore.

If evolving or, call it what you want, flip-flopping -

RAMASWAMY: So, let me - if I can just respond to that.

BOLDUAN: You can call it what you want, if you -

RAMASWAMY: I - let me - let me respond to that. I -

BOLDUAN: No, but one second. One second than you totally can. It - you -

RAMASWAMY: Kate, I can't leave that hanging. Kate, I can't leave that hang on policy, if I - if I may. BOLDUAN: I understand, but I'm going to ask the question, then you can totally answer.

RAMASWAMY: Yes. Absolutely.

[08:40:01]

BOLDUAN: She said very clearly that now is not - this is - those are not her positions. If evolving on an issue, if evolving on a position, you can even call it flip-flopping on an issue, if that is now not allowed, if that should be, you know, the death knell to a campaign, Donald Trump's got issues there.

RAMASWAMY: So, look, the reality is, Donald Trump's been clear about his policy positions. With Kamala Harris I want to be specific about this though.

BOLDUAN: On abortion?

RAMASWAMY: Actions speak louder than words. When she - well, let's - let's - you brought up some claims about Kamala Harris. I want to finish that discussion. She said she didn't favor a ban on fracking now. The reality is, she was one of the strongest proponents of that ban, so much so that when she was in California, she sued the Obama administration over granting fracking permits. She didn't just favor the abolition of private health insurance. She was a co-sponsor of the bill with Bernie Sanders as a U.S. senator for Medicare for all for Americans.

The reality is, when you think about the green new deal, she was the chief proponent, not just as a co-sponsor of the legislation, but going further and saying she would end the filibuster in the Senate to ram that through.

So, the reality is, she can say what she wants to say now. Those are actions she has taken. Is someone allowed to evolve? Of course they are. But she deserves to explain exactly why she's changed those positions, exactly what her position is. If it's not a ban on fracking, what exactly is it? What exactly is her health care plan if she no longer favors abolishing private health insurance, which just four short years ago when she ran for president she did. And that's the kind of scrutiny that's been missing.

I think Donald Trump has received plenty of scrutiny, and I give credit to him for sitting for hostile interviews that Kamala Harris has not. But the American people, the American electorate, deserves a rich policy debate that they have not had with Kamala.

BOLDUAN: But the point is, I - we - you have to put a - and it gets - and it gets to be - I guess it will be for the voters to decide how long of kind of an expiration date there is on when something is still your position or if you believe them now on what they're saying on their position. Voters get to decide. She has said that her position has evolved on that.

Is it OK for candidates to evolve on a position over a period of years?

RAMASWAMY: I think it's perfectly acceptable.

BOLDUAN: OK, good. Let me ask you then -

RAMASWAMY: I think most people need to rethink their positions over time as facts change.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

RAMASWAMY: But - but they deserve to explain to the people clearly which she has failed to do. And it's not just a change in position. These are hard positions on which she has actually taken policy action, both as a vice president and attorney general and a U.S. senator. And simply saying she doesn't believe that anymore is not a sufficient explanation on core issues that affect costs for Americans, health care for Americans, taxation for Americans, including taxes on unrealized gain on which she has not yet changed her position. That, I think, is a devastating economic policy that's among those she needs to explain, and she hasn't done it.

BOLDUAN: Now to continue - on positions - on positions that candidates seem to be struggling on, Donald Trump continues to be struggling on stating a clear position on abortion and reproductive rights. Last week he was asked his position on a Florida ballot initiative he will be voting on to overturn the six-week ban in Florida. And the way he responded to the question was, six weeks is too short. I'm going to be voting that we need more than six weeks.

The next day he said that he will then, though, support the six-week ban. Why is he struggling to state a clear position on abortion then?

RAMASWAMY: So - so, again, I respectfully disagree with your characterization there about him struggling to state a position. The truth of the matter is, Donald Trump has been crystal clear that, first of all, this is an issue for the states. Will the U.S. president ban abortion and -

BOLDUAN: And that is an issue that he's going to be voting on in the state of Florida, right?

RAMASWAMY: Well, first of all, in his capacity for running for U.S. president, what he's running for Kamala Harris against, he has been clear that he is against a federal ban on abortion.

Now, on the Florida bill, which I want to address as well, there is a difference between being opposed to a six-week ban, which he's been consistent on, both during the campaign when I ran against him, as well as throughout, that he's against a six-week ban, that is different than what this ballot measure accomplishes. And I know you know that, Kate. This ballot measure would, though its vague crafting, would allow abortions far after six weeks, arguably under the interpretation of some legal scholars, all the way up to the point of birth. He's against that, and that's been a consistent position as well. So, I do think this attempt by Democrats, and its politics so you'd

expected it, to conflate an opposition to a six-week ban with somehow being in favor of a ballot measure that actually would allow for far more than that is, I think, sophistry. And the job of voters, I hope they do it, is to see through that, even if it's served up to them in the media. You can't conflate those two things. And I don't think that's an inconsistency, with all due respect.

BOLDUAN: Things you also - think you also can't conflate is on the issue of, and I've heard this time and again, of accusing - of - of saying that - that Democrats, and in putting this on Kamala - and Kamala Harris is, you know, saying that they're going to be able to, as you mentioned, up to the point of birth or execute a baby after birth, they're - that you do agree that that is illegal in all states?

RAMASWAMY: That is -

BOLDUAN: That's not an issue?

RAMASWAMY: Is and it should be legal, except for when you look at the vaguely drafted statutes that are now expanding in these ballot measures. And I think that's the debate we ought to be having in this country, is an honest debate at the state level.

[08:45:04]

And where I give Donald Trump a lot of credit - this was my position during the presidential campaign as well - is that this is an issue for the states in a post-Dobbs world. I think Roe was correctly overturned. I think most Republicans agree on that. This is now an issue for the states. And I know that Democrats want to make this a core issue. But the reality is, it's not a presidential issue anymore. It belongs to the states.

Kamala Harris has wrongly characterized and wrongfully stated, I think in this case I'd call it an outright lie, saying Donald Trump would sign a federal abortion ban when he's been clear that he's against a federal position on this issue. And I think voters deserve that kind of clarity.

BOLDUAN: One thing we do also know is that voters, not Democrats, are saying that abortion is an important issue in this election as well. But as you said, it's for the voters now to decide, and much more to learn after the debate coming up next week. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on that.

Thanks for coming on.

Sara.

SIDNER: Right now, communities across the country are on high alert after reports of several mosquito-borne illnesses in humans. Some have even turned deadly.

You asked and this morning Dr. Sanjay Gupta is on call to answer all of your questions about mosquito bites and dangerous that they pose. Let's get right to CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay

Gupta.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Sara.

SIDNER: OK, we heard from a gentleman named Daniel. He says he lives in western Massachusetts. The nights are in the 50s to 60s, the days in the 70s to 85. What's the safest time to be outdoors? Now, he has a lovely little stream and some woods nearby as well.

GUPTA: Yes. So, the general rule here, Daniel, is dusk and dawn, that's when the mosquitoes, especially the ones that carry West Nile Virus, for example, they like to be out. So, dusk and dawn. That's why, incidentally, there was these voluntary curfews that were put in place, and they've been put in place in the past as well back in 2005, 2012, 2019. So, dusk and dawn. Mosquitoes really don't like sun. So, sort of keep that in the back of your mind.

What they also do like though is the carbon dioxide that you're exhaling. So, putting a little fan on to blow away the CO2 from around your nose and your mouth, that can be helpful. They also like darker colors. So, dark reds, dark oranges. Those are going to attract mosquitoes. And there was also a recent study showing that they like people who have just drank beer. So, if you can avoid those things, you could probably cut down on the risk of mosquito bites.

SIDNER: Oh.

GUPTA: That explains something for you, huh?

SIDNER: That explains it.

GUPTA: OK.

SIDNER: Also, I'm wearing red. What the heck? I'm like a mosquito attractor.

All right, Donna for Marietta, Ohio, asks, what's the best repellent? Like, what's the most effective yet, yet safe? This is one that a lot of people - we - I have tried everything.

GUPTA: Yes.

SIDNER: I lived in Florida most of my life. I have tried everything.

GUPTA: Yes. So, you know, there's two main ingredients that people should sort of be aware of. There's DEET, which most people have heard of, and Picaridin. DEET is the one that's been around for a long time. So, it's sort of the gold standard. You know, started to get used in the 1950s. The problem with it is that it's got a really strong odor, it can be damaging to some plastics, things like that. It is available in higher concentration. So, if you're someone who's really going to be in mosquito infested areas for a while, DEET might be a little bit of a better bet.

But Picaridin, which is a relative newcomer, it's been around close to 20 years now, that's odorless, doesn't damage plastics. It's available in up to 20 percent concentration.

And, by the way, when you look at the percentage of concentration, that is really a reflection of the length of protection more than the strength of protection.

SIDNER: OK.

GUPTA: And once you get over 50 percent, it probably doesn't make that big a difference. So, you want to avoid odors and you're using around plastics, Picaridin might be your better bet.

SIDNER: OK. And we've got a viewer in Colorado Springs who is asking, if you've had West Nile Virus, can you actually get it again?

GUPTA: Yes, so the wisdom seems to be that, no, you really probably shouldn't be able to get it again. Some people who may have weakened immune systems, they may not generate the same level of antibodies. But when you get exposed to West Nile Virus, you should generate these antibodies, and those antibodies should provide you lifelong protection. At least that's what the current science says.

Now, I will point out again something that we talked about yesterday, that the vast majority of people, about 80 percent of people who do get West Nile may not know they ever had it. They just don't have symptoms, so they don't have very significant symptoms. In a - in a rare percentage of people, they can develop these severe symptoms, which are significant headache, they can develop fever, they can develop body aches, vomiting, things like that. And it can even actually start to get into the brain, which is why people may develop seizures, termers, convulsions, things like that. But again, very rare for that to happen. If you develop antibodies, you should have lifelong protection.

SIDNER: I learned two things. One, that you shouldn't be able to get West Nile Virus again, and two, that mosquitoes like beer breath.

[08:50:05]

So, those are two important things that I've learned from Dr. Gupta today.

GUPTA: My work here is done.

SIDNER: Appreciate your time this morning, Dr. Gupta.

John.

BERMAN: Yes, I'm hung up on the beer thing.

SIDNER: I am too.

BERMAN: That might explain why I've got bites all over my neck.

All right, new this morning, calls to investigate popular discount retailers over safety concerns about some baby products.

And new video of the moment a driver was trapped in his car by rising floodwaters.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELTON JOHN, MUSICIAN (singing): Oh, I've finally decided my future lies beyond the yellow brick road.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:55:04]

BERMAN: I think we should just play this song more. Or I could report the news.

Rock and roll legend Elton John says he has been recovering from a severe eye infection that limits vision in one of his eyes. He says it will take some time before his vision returns to normal.

A Texas man recorded the moment rising floodwaters trapped him inside his SUV. The man says he could feel his SUV floating in the water. That happened in San Antonio. And he says three other cars were also stranded. Firefighters tethered a rope and pulled him to safety.

And consumer safety regulators are calling for an investigation into the popular bargain website Shein and Temu, alleging the sites are selling, quote, "deadly baby and toddler products." In the statement the regulators claim that neither site complies with U.S. safety regulations. No direct link has yet been established between products from the sites in the deaths of any children. Neither site has replied to requests for comment.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, thank you, John.

This morning, six Hamas leaders have been charged with terrorism by the Justice Department for the October 7th attack on Israel. Attorney General Merrick Garland says the indictment is just the start of DOJ's efforts to hold Hamas accountable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GRALAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The Justice Department has a long memory. We will pursue the terrorists responsible for murdering Americans, and those who illegally provide them with material support, for the rest of their lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Now, while that is happening, in Ukraine, there is a huge cabinet shakeup as Russia did one of its deadliest attacks since the war began in Ukraine.

I'm joined now by CNN military analyst, General Mark Hertling, and CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier. Thank you both for being here.

I'm going to start with you, General Hertling.

I want to start with Ukraine. What does it tell you - we're learning today that about a half a dozen senior figures have tendered their resignations. There's a huge government shakeup in Ukraine. The - really the biggest since Russia invaded the country. What does this signal?

GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I believe it signals that President Zelenskyy is looking to refresh his cabinet. You've got to consider, Sara, that these individuals, especially Mr. Kuleba, who's the minister of the interior, has been at - have been at their posts for about four years now. That's a typical time for a refreshment. And they're burnt out. I mean this is fatiguing. They've been at war for two-and-a-half years, over two-and-a-half years. They've been continually working to support the Ukrainian people and the territorial and sovereignty of Ukraine. So, I just think it's Mr. Zelenskyy saying, we need some fresh eyes, some fresh years. This is typical for a, I think, an administration, especially one that's at war.

SIDNER: Yes. And it's been more than two years since the February 24, 2022, invasion there.

Kim, how do you see Russia responding? They have done this horrible attack. The deadliest since the war began. Are they just waiting out the rest of the world, hoping that people will stop, countries will stop supporting Ukraine? Is that the general plan that you're seeing here?

KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, from Moscow's point of view, the war is still going well. Yes, there's been the Ukrainian incursion into Kursk and the Russian military has responded about as quickly as it normally does. Forces are headed that way to try to push those forces out.

But also, Putin has begun to take advantage rhetorically of that Kursk incursion by saying, look, we've been telling you all along that the Ukrainians, backed by NATO, are a threat to Russia. And that is something that he uses to bolster his popularity at home. And from the material point of view, Russia has supplies from North Korea and from Iran and is also backed by dual use supplies from China.

So, Putin can wait this out and wait possibly for a Trump presidency where he thinks he's going to have a friendly White House.

SIDNER: It is a point that a lot of lawmakers are talking about today as well.

General Hertling, I do want to ask you about what we began with, which is six Hamas leaders being indicted by the DOJ.

What kind of impact, if any, does it have on Hamas' ability to operate and to negotiate, as everyone is trying to put together a potential ceasefire deal?

HERTLING: Yes, well, most Americans won't know these names, Sara, but we're talking Yahya Sinwar and Mohammad Deif (ph), Marwan Issa and Ismail Haniyeh, four of the key terrorists, the administrators of the Hamas organization. There were other militants that also were indicted by the State Department, and they were responsible, according to the AG, for 43 American citizens dying on - or taken hostage on October 7th.

[09:00:00]

What this will do, in combination with some of the actions by the Netanyahu government, will continue to put Hamas on notice.