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Judge: Won't Consider Election In Deciding Trial Schedule: Trump Team, Prosecutors Spar In First Hearing Since Immunity Ruling; Source: Investigators Found Writings on Past School Shootings in Teen Suspect's Bedroom; Officials Questioned Suspect in 2023 About School Shooting Threat. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 05, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:12]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Critical new details today about the shooting at a high school in Georgia, including what investigators found in the 14-year-old suspect's bedroom and a panic button that authorities say saved lives during the shooting.

Plus, federal prosecutors and lawyers for former President Trump spar in a Washington, D.C. courtroom for the first time since the Supreme Court granted him limited immunity. What we expect next as the Justice Department fights to keep the case moving forward.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And a CNN exclusive, Christiane Amanpour sitting down with the commander in chief of the armed forces of Ukraine. A candid conversation at a critical moment in the war against Russia.

We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Deciding the path ahead, the judge in former President Trump's federal election interference case ended today's hearing without setting a trial date, but making it clear she's not thinking about the 2024 Presidential Election when it comes to this case.

SANCHEZ: Judge Tanya Chutkan told Trump's lawyers in a tense exchange, quote, "I'm not talking about the presidency of the United States. I'm talking about the four corners of the indictment." CNN Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid was at court today for the hearing.

Walk us through the takeaways, Paula.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, there are a few takeaways. First of all, as you can tell from that quote, Judge Chutkan has not lost a step since we last saw her in this case nearly a year ago. This was the first hearing since the Supreme Court issued this opinion, making it harder for prosecutors to bring some charges against former President Trump, also making it perhaps more difficult to bring in certain pieces of key evidence. And today, the goal was to decide, all right, how are they going to proceed? How are they going to approach this case? Now, there were some contentious exchanges between the judge and the Trump defense team. Judge Chutkan outright rejecting a request from the Trump legal team that she just dismissed the indictment against their client.

She made it clear that is not going to happen. She also made it clear that she is not taking into consideration the upcoming presidential election. And she has been consistent about this throughout the entire case. Since he was indicted, she has repeatedly told Trump's lawyers that she does not take politics into consideration when she is handling this case.

But the one area of agreement across all the parties was that the next step is to decide how the Supreme Court's immunity ruling applies in this case. So that will be up to the judge. And she really has to get over that hurdle before the defense can try to litigate other issues.

They say they're going to try to challenge the legitimacy of the Special Counsel, something the judge signaled would likely not be successful in her court, but they will likely try. They're also going to raise questions about obstruction of justice related to January 6th in the wake of another Supreme Court case. They also have questions about discovery.

So right now, we're watching and waiting for the judge to release her schedule to get a sense of how quickly this could all happen. But the judge made it clear today, it is far too early to set a trial date. There's a lot of work to be done.

And I'll reiterate, if the former president is reelected, this case, along with the other federal case related to the classified documents at Mar-a-Lago, will all be dismissed.

SANCHEZ: Paula Reid, thank you so much for the update.

Let's discuss now with former federal judge John E. Jones III and CNN Senior Political Analyst, Gloria Borger.

Judge, first to you, how do you think Judge Chutkan handled today's hearing? It appeared that she gave both sides some of what they wanted.

JOHN E. JONES III, FORMER CHIEF JUDGE: I'll tell you what, Boris, I am a great fan of Judge Chutkan. I think she's superb. She's everything you want in a federal trial judge. And I can say that having served almost 20 years in that capacity.

And I don't like to cast dispersions, but if you contrast that with the way that, unfortunately, Judge Cannon ran her courtroom in an hour and 15 minutes today, she made the parties hit the mark and had a crisp, good exchange on the path forward. So I think she's doing great work.

KEILAR: Yes. And Gloria, as we noted here, the judge says the election, that's not her concern. GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Forget about it, yes.

KEILAR: She's concerned about the four corners of the indictment. That's not good news necessarily for Trump, because ...

BORGER: Right.

KEILAR: ... he wants to push this case past the election. She's also maybe, though, not trying to speed it up, if you take her at her word there. What do you think?

BORGER: Well, the case, you know, we're not - the case isn't going to go to trial until after the election. We know that. And, of course, if Donald Trump is elected, it isn't ever going to go to trial at all.

[15:05:00]

But what we're talking about is seeing pretrial evidence.

KEILAR: That's right.

BORGER: And it could be some grand jury testimony, et cetera. And the Trump folks are not happy about that. And I think, you know, she's saying, I don't really care about this election. That's not in my courtroom.

And she kind of chastised, you know, Trump's lawyers, saying, "It strikes me what you're trying to do is affect the presentation of this case so as not to impinge on an election." And she's not having any of it.

SANCHEZ: Gloria, I'm curious as to how you think that Democrats, specifically Vice President Kamala Harris, is handling Trump's legal woes. Yesterday, we were watching her ...

BORGER: Yes.

SANCHEZ: ... at this rally in New Hampshire. And we heard someone in the crowd yelling about Donald Trump, lock him up. And she said, let the courts handle that.

BORGER: Right.

SANCHEZ: Essentially stepping away from it.

We saw President Biden do that repeatedly when he was the presumed nominee for the Democrats. Some of that may have had to do with his own son's legal issues and not wanting to appear as though he's tipping the scales of what the Department of Justice is doing. But do you think it's smart for Democrats at this point, where the race is, to essentially not make this a bigger issue?

BORGER: Right. Well, they made it an issue during the convention. You know, they were talking about his felonies. But I think at a certain point, you can overdo it. And the people who they need to convince to vote for them, those few undecided voters left, are very well aware of Donald Trump's legal issues. And I believe that they feel that they don't need to gild the lily anymore.

They just need to let it be and let it hang out there. And we'll see what happens with this and Judge Chutkan. We'll see if there is or if there are pretrial hearings, for example.

KEILAR: Yet - and I wonder, Judge, if there are what we could see in those pretrial hearings on immunity ahead of the November election, what kind of evidence might come out that might really have people paying a lot of attention?

JONES: Well, they're going to have to, Brianna, tie up some of the allegations that they have - the unpled allegations, if you will, in the indictment. And I think Jack Smith asking to go forward first makes perfect sense to me. And attaching to his brief, certain excerpts from the grand jury testimony.

Now, they may request to do that under seal so as not to prejudice the former president. But I think you're going to see some of what the prosecution has, at least through that filing.

Now, Judge Chutkan at that point would have the opportunity to say, look, I need to see more in order to make these immunity calls. And she could, on her own initiative, ask for evidentiary hearings, so I think it's one step at a time.

But I kind of had a sense today that she was buying the prosecution's request to go first, given what U.S. v. Trump, that is the immunity decision mandates that the court do. What she can't do, I don't think, is decide this case on dry briefs without some context or some, at least, written evidence put in front of her.

SANCHEZ: And Judge, we saw how that kind of argumentation from Trump's team played out, as you mentioned, with Judge Cannon in South Florida. We know that the Trump legal team is going to try to make the same case again in this courtroom, essentially saying that the Special Counsel's appointment was unconstitutional or inappropriate. How do you think that's going to land with Judge Chutkan?

JONES: Well, Paula Reid just mentioned it and she was quite right, Boris, that Judge Chutkan tipped her hand today. She said that she did not find Judge Cannon's opinion particularly persuasive. That means, in judge speak, that's - I - you know, I don't think it holds water at all. I think that was a way to sort of candy coat it.

She also mentioned Justice Thomas' concurring opinion in U.S. v. Thomas, where he brought this up and said she didn't think much of that either, and that's dicta. Anyway, it's not binding. It's not precedent.

So one thing we can say with assurance after the hearing today is they can preserve that for appeal if they want to. But I don't think Judge Chutkan is ever going to toss this thing based on the Special Counsel being unlawful. That's just not going to happen.

BORGER: It is kind of remarkable to me how clear she was about that. I mean, dissing a Supreme Court justice in court and saying she wasn't persuaded by another judge's ruling. I mean, it was very clear that throwing out the Special Counsel just isn't going to happen.

KEILAR: Trump may have to figure out how to deal with whatever comes out of this, though ...

BORGER: Yes.

KEILAR: ... politically, right? That's clear.

BORGER: Well, yes, absolutely, in the short-term and maybe in the long-term. We'll have to see what happens in the election.

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KEILAR: All right. Gloria, thank you so much. Judge Jones, really appreciate it.

And ahead, we will be taking you to Winder, Georgia. It's the site of America's latest school shooting as investigators work to peel back the layers of this suspect past, figuring out why this happened, how this happened and if it could have been stopped.

Plus, Moscow is laughing off new accusations from the Justice Department accusing Russia of flooding social media with political disinformation.

SANCHEZ: And former President Trump is talking about his plans for the economy a day after Vice President Harris did the same. Both campaigns zeroing in on what polling shows is most important to voters, the economy.

These stories and much more coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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KEILAR: New details now in the investigation into that deadly shooting at Apalachee High School in Winder, Georgia, northeast of Atlanta. A source tells CNN authorities searching the home of the 14-year-old suspect found documents in his bedroom that they believe he wrote referencing past shootings.

Officials have also revealed law enforcement questioned the boy last year about online threats to commit a school shooting. The suspect is set to make his first court appearance tomorrow. He's facing felony murder charges in the deaths of two teachers and two students. Authorities say he'll be charged as an adult.

Let's go live now to CNN's Nick Valencia, who is outside of Apalachee High School.

Nick, what more can you tell us about this investigation?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, zeroing in on that 2023 incident, Brianna, it's drawing a lot of question marks here among the community as to whether or not if more could have been done to prevent what happened here yesterday.

The fact that this 14-year-old, then-13 at the time in 2023, was questioned by law enforcement officials because of a series of anonymous threats that indicated that he may have been posting threats online. He denied making those threats, and police determined that there was no probable cause to take him into custody.

But that event itself, being drawn back under the microscope after the tragedy here yesterday. And I'm joined now by one of those survivors, somebody who was here in the school.

Cesar, come on in here.

You were here in the school yesterday, and you decided to come here today to the vigil to pay your respects. What are you feeling today? What is going on in your head after what you experienced?

CESAR D'SUZE, JUNIOR AT APALACHEE HIGH SCHOOL: Well, I'm feeling a little bit lost. I woke up this morning with the feeling of, I wish it was all a dream. But after talking to one of my pastors, he came to my house, I feel better now, I feel like.

VALENCIA: Do you ask yourself if more could have been done? Did you feel safe prior to what happened here yesterday, going to school in Apalachee?

D'SUZE: Well, you never would think it would be in Apalachee, but I did feel - you felt safe. It was just a normal school before all of this. And I think the police, they did a great job. Everyone did a great job. The teachers especially, they did a great job.

And I just want to take this moment to say, we need the teachers right now to stick with us more than ever, because they went through what we had to go yesterday with us, so, yes.

VALENCIA: You knew those teachers. You knew some of the victims. Talk to me about what they meant to you and what they mean to this school.

D'SUZE: They are part of our Apalachee family. I felt like we were just - and everybody - I think everybody's in shock. We never thought it would happen here. And for it to happen here, it's just crazy because you see it on the news, you see it on TV, you see it on movies, but you never would expect it would happen somewhere in a small town, you know?

VALENCIA: Take me through that second period yesterday. It's 10 o'clock, you go into your second period class, 10:15, the clock's ticking here. What - at what moment did you realize, something is wrong, this - something's bad happening?

D'SUZE: Well, they took me out of my class because I was finishing taking a test. And when I ...

VALENCIA: You heard some footsteps, you said, in the hallway. You heard commotions. D'SUZE: Yes. When I was, like, the thing started, the red light started showing, and then they closed the doors, they turned off the lights, they made us hide behind the desk. And then not even a few minutes later, we can hear the police, which at that point, we didn't know it was the police. We thought it was - you never know who it was, you know?

They were just walking in, slamming - you could hear slamming, you could hear screaming, you could hear doors being shut. It's just a lot. You could hear everything that was going on. Everything was so quiet yesterday at school that any single noise made - one of your classmates cry, like right behind - but - my classmate right beside me was crying. I was trying to calm her down while I was shaking. And it was just nothing that I would put anybody through.

VALENCIA: I was talking to one of your classmates and she was talking to me about Ms. Irimie, saying that she was like the sweetest person. Talk to me about some of the teachers that you were telling me about when we were off camera. And, you know, just tell me who they are.

D'SUZE: Well, I knew Mr. Phenix. He was my ...

VALENCIA: David Phenix, is that right, one of the victims?

D'SUZE: He was one of my teachers last year in geometry. And he was just a really nice person. I wish I would have told him how much I appreciated him the last time that I saw him before all this happened.

VALENCIA: We understand. He may be recovering and joking around at this point.

When you're ducking and taking cover, and it's not clear if the cops are the shooters or, you know, is it running through your mind, different scenarios or shootings that you've seen? You're sort of just - you've grown up with this being sort of a common thing in schools.

D'SUZE: Well, like I said, you never imagine this happening. Even though you train for it a lot, teachers train for it, you never feel ready for a situation like this ever. You never see it coming and you're never really prepared to go through something like this.

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VALENCIA: Cesar, I want to give you a hug because I see you shaking here. Thank you so much for taking the time with us and taking the time with CNN.

I know it's a really hard day and you could tell by looking into these people's eyes here in this community, Brianna. You know, this is a small community. You know, talking off camera to his stepfather, who said they moved away from the commotion of the city to avoid, you know, chaos and situations like this, only for the worst tragedy to happen here yesterday. Brianna?

KEILAR: Yes. Thank you, Nick. And thank you to Cesar for talking to us about his experience. We certainly appreciate that. Boris? SANCHEZ: Two school resource officers are being hailed for their immediate response that led to the gunman's surrender. The Barrow County Sheriff says one of them came face-to-face with the 14-year-old suspect, listen.

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SHERIFF JUD SMITH, BARROW COUNTY, GEORGIA: And the shooter quickly realized that if he did not give up, that it would end with an OIS or an officer-involved shooting. He gave up, got on the ground, and the deputy took him into custody.

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SANCHEZ: Joining us now is Mo Canady. He's the executive director of the National Association of School Resource Officers, a former resource officer, and a retired SRO supervisor.

Mo, thank you so much for being with us.

What was your reaction to news that these two school resource officers on the scene, one of them confronting the shooter who then surrendered, were instrumental in this process?

MO CANADY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS: First of all, I just have to say it's heartbreaking listening to that student describe what he went through yesterday. But I will say that there's - there are no victories here, let me be clear about that.

But the fact that those SROs were there and did what they had been trained to do, it's very clear to me these were carefully selected, specifically trained SROs. There is no way for us to know how many lives were saved by those two officers responding and doing what they were trained to do. I thank God they were there, who knows how much worse this could be today?

SANCHEZ: Mo, you - I'm sure - heard the news that law enforcement previously interviewed the shooter a year ago. He had been flagged for online threats that he denied making. Schools in Jackson County were alerted about him, but it's not clear that he was flagged to Barrow County, where the shooting actually took place, where his family had him go to school.

Would you like to see some kind of change, a system, to make those kinds of warnings more expansive?

CANADY: You know, I think that change is in progress as we talk, and it was in progress before yesterday. It's been going on for a while. Part of that is behavioral threat assessment.

I just returned from Washington, D.C., where I spent two days with a lot of the nation's experts on the issue of behavioral threat assessment. And so I think part of that is educating everyone that we possibly can, creating more multidisciplinary school safety teams that include law enforcement. And then what that means is hopefully we'll have better communication flow, not just within a school, but between schools and between school districts. That's critically important.

SANCHEZ: We also learned that teachers at Apalachee have this special ID that can alert law enforcement to an active situation, something that was actually put in place just a week ago. Would that make a significant difference if that were installed at all schools?

CANADY: First of all, it's come to my attention that that is through CENTEGIX, which is one of our wonderful sponsors of our National School Safety Conference. And I think that when we look at that technology and we pair it with other things that are going on in the school, it's a multi-hazard situation. So it requires that kind of multidisciplinary approach.

And so this is a great use, clearly, of security technologies and having that panic button. I really actually like the idea of it be - the teachers being equipped with that so that they have ready access to it. It sounds like it had a huge impact yesterday.

SANCHEZ: You mentioned this sort of holistic approach to these kinds of emergencies at schools and specifically with technology. I'm wondering, this report that the school didn't have metal detectors, a student telling my colleague, CNN's Isabel Rosales, about this. How effective would metal detectors be in preventing a situation like this and what other technology could be used and implemented to save lives?

CANADY: Again, I'm a big fan of security technologies, you know? And when we're talking about metal detectors, there's some fantastic weapons detection systems out there. But those are only as good as the human element.

[15:25:00]

And what I mean by that is we have to make sure we're taking care of the rest of the basics around school safety. Perimeter security, for instance, making sure our perimeter doors are secure.

And one aspect of this that many miss is relationships. We get a lot of intelligence from students, from parents, from other adults in the building. When we build good relationships ahead of that, the whole see something, say something idea, when you're in a relationship with someone, there's a much better chance you're going to get that information shared, which gives us a chance to stop the horrible act before it starts.

SANCHEZ: And speaking of stopping the horrible act before it starts, Mo, I have to ask, what does it tell you about the United States that this keeps happening and it's kept happening? And we're talking about mitigation at schools with metal detectors and these alert systems, but it seems like we're mitigating the approach in a way that's responsive as opposed to preventative. What does that tell you?

CANADY: Well, I think that there - of course, it's very concerning. There's no question about it that we're constantly having to - I'm sick of responding to these. I was an SRO when the Columbine massacre happened, so it's sad. It's extremely sad.

But, you know, one of the things that we recognize is that there are some prevention measures that are being put in place, but one of those has to be around mental health. We have got to have more professionals from a mental health standpoint in and around our schools partnering with us. We have great respect for what they do. So that's a huge piece of the preventive part.

One other thing that we're - we constantly encourage parents who are gun owners to do is to please do their job of securing their firearms in their home. That certainly is something that can be preventative.

SANCHEZ: Mo Canady, we appreciate your perspective. Thanks so much for being with us.

CANADY: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Stay with News Central. We're back in just a moment.

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