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Harris and Trump square off tonight at high-stakes debate; Trump claims, without evidence, mail-in fraud in Pennsylvania; Ex-New York Governor Cuomo testifies on state's COVID-19 pandemic response. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 10, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:33]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Let's get ready to rumble. Tonight's matchup on the debate is one that we did not see coming just weeks ago. What we're learning about the candidate's strategies hours before this face-off.

Plus, confronting Cuomo. Any minute, the former New York Governor set to face lawmakers and they're looking to grill him on his handling of the pandemic, specifically his administration's nursing home policies and accounting for deaths. We're live from Capitol Hill.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And Miami Dolphins star Tyreek Hill speaking with CNN after body camera video is released of his detainment by police. Ahead, what the footage shows and why. Hill says, he's still shell-shocked about the interaction. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

KEILAR: We are just hours away from Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump squaring off for the very first time on the debate stage. Tonight's showdown in Philadelphia is setting up to be the most consequential moment since Harris took over for President Joe Biden as the democratic nominee.

National polling shows the race deadlocked and tonight's confrontation could be make or break for either candidate. We have the very latest on how both are preparing in these final minutes.

CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is joining us now from the debate site. All right. Jeff, it really could all come down to tonight. What more can you tell us?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, there is no superlative that we can use that really is not apt for this debate tonight that's going to be taking place behind me in the National Constitution Center. You said it as a showdown. Also one steeped in history right here in Philadelphia. But there has been no presidential nominee who has much debating experience as Donald Trump. He's done six already. Tonight will be his seventh. But it's Vice President Harris's first presidential debate. To prepare, we are told both sides have been watching the other.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

ZELENY: Donald Trump and Kamala Harris have spent months talking about one another.

DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and current U.S. Presidential Candidate: If comrade Kamala Harris gets four more years, you will be living a full blown banana republic.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you've got something to say, say it to my face.

ZELENY: On Tuesday night, they will talk to one another in a duel scene around the world, but with one of the most important audiences here in Pennsylvania.

GINA OLD, UNDECIDED PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I don't know if I'll really know until it's time to actually vote.

ZELENY: This will be Trump's seventh debate, more than any nominee in history. Harris and her team have studied all of the previous six. Three with Hillary Clinton.

TRUMP: No puppet, no puppet.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: The United States that it's pretty clear, it --

TRUMP: You're the puppet.

ZELENY: And three with Joe Biden.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Will you shut up, man?

TRUMP: Who is your -- listen --

ZELENY: Which offer lessons for both sides. For Harris, it's a marquee moment to show Americans she is ready to assume the presidency, a question very much on the minds of voters in Pivotal Bucks County, just outside Philadelphia, where signs of support for all sides are inescapable.

OLD: By nature, I am a Republican. Always vote a Republican. Not sure this year.

JOHN BILLIE, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER FOR TRUMP: I'm going to go with Trump regardless. I don't know enough about Kamala. And big deals with the border. And inflation is my main thing.

MARY SUE FRANK, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: My hope is that they're going to tell us what they're going to do, not what the other person has done wrong.

ZELENY: Pennsylvania is at the center of the presidential race, with Harris, Trump and their allies spending more than any other battleground, $82 million from Democrats, $74 million from Republicans, as a fight to define the Vice President dominates the airwaves.

HARRIS: It's a very different vision than Donald Trump's.

MAN #1: Dangerously liberal. Kamala Harris is no laughing matter.

ZELENY: Harris has spent the last five days in Pittsburgh preparing for the debate.

HARRIS: Look, it's time to turn the page on the divisiveness. It's time to bring our country together. Chart a new way forward.

ZELENY: In a weekend rally in Wisconsin, Trump argued he is the true candidate of change.

TRUMP: Kamala Harris and the communists left have unleashed a brutal plague of bloodshed, crime, chaos, misery, and death upon our land. And it's only going to get worse.

ZELENY: That rhetoric raises the question of what tone Trump intends to strike and whether it will be sexist, as he often was against Clinton in 2016.

[14:05:04]

TRUMP: She doesn't have the look. She doesn't have the stamina.

ZELENY: Or seize upon policies of the Biden-Harris administration as he did in June.

TRUMP: We had the safest border in history. Now, we have the worst border in history.

ZELENY: Trump has been familiarizing himself with old Harris debates, too.

HARRIS: Mr. Vice President, I'm speaking. I'm speaking. If you don't mind letting me finish, we can then have a conversation, okay?

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Please.

HARRIS: Okay. Those stinging moments from a former prosecutor now trying to make the case that she can turn the page to the presidency.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

ZELENY: So for all of that old debate tape from the six debates that Trump has done, and of course, the one vice presidential debate that Harris has done, this is an entirely new moment. And the voters we spoke to here in Pennsylvania, of course, are key to all of this, perhaps one of the most important audiences of all.

But undecided voters, and yes, they do still exist, are wanting to hear more about Harris's policy. So by that measure, you could argue that she certainly has much more to gain by filling in some of the gaps. But she also faces some risks if they do not like what they hear. Trump, of course, is well-practiced at this. But which Trump will show up, what will his demeanor be, his tenor and tone be? I'm told the Vice President has been practicing for all of them, but it'll just be those two candidates face to face. And remarkably, it is the very first time they have been in a room together. Brianna?

KEILAR: Yeah, that is something. Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much. So how much do debates really matter in presidential races? I mean, Harry Enten, you tell us, break down the numbers here. What's at stake?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I mean, a lot's at stake tonight because the bottom line is, look, oftentimes you go into debates that go, eh, you know, they're a nice television event, but they don't really matter. But that's because one candidate is so far ahead of the other candidate that even a small change in the polls won't make a difference.

But right now, this race is as close as it could possibly be. You know, if you take my average of the polls, it's just a two point race nationally between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. You go to a state like Pennsylvania, the polls are tied there. And of course, that's obviously at this particular point looking to be the most pivotal state that we're looking at.

So this year, the debates matter more than ever before. We obviously saw that back in June. But more than that, who is the debate important for this evening? It's Kamala Harris. Because let's take a look at how undecided voters feel, right? We're talking about a small smidgen of the electorate, part of the electorate that's going to decide everything. Look at this. How do they feel?

Well, they don't really like either Kamala Harris or Donald Trump. You can see that just 13% of them view Kamala Harris favorably. Just 8% of them view Donald Trump favorably. But look at that need to learn more about, this is the key nugget. Of all the numbers I've seen, that really tells you what's at stake tonight because the bottom line is there's only a very small percentage of those undecided voters who are already a small part of the electorate who say they need to learn more about Donald Trump, just 18%.

But look at Kamala Harris, it's 48% of undecided voters who feel like they need to learn more about her. The bottom line is undecided voters already know how they feel about Donald Trump. They don't like him. It's Kamala Harris who they really want to learn a lot about. And that's why tonight is so pivotal.

KEILAR: Expectations game. Which candidate has the highest expectations tonight?

ENTEN: Yeah. You know, what a difference between now and June. You go into that June debate, most voters thought that Donald Trump was going to win that particular debate, and it ended up that he did. You flash forward to tonight, how do most voters feel? The clear plurality think that Kamala Harris is going to beat Donald Trump tonight. You see that a six-point lead there, according to a recent ABC News Ipsos poll. So you put it all together, Brianna, you put it all together. You

realize that there are a ton of undecided voters who feel like they need to learn more about Kamala Harris. You put it together with the fact that most voters or the plurality of voters think that Kamala Harris is going to win tonight. You can just see how pivotal this debate is for her because she had all that momentum that seems to have slowed over the last few weeks. Can she turn it back around the night just as early voting is going to get underway in a lot of these different states?

And the bottom line is, I can't really recall a debate perhaps outside of the one earlier this year in which there's so much at stake. The bottom line is who wins this debate tonight could ultimately be the difference between winning and losing the election come November.

KEILAR: Wow. A lot at stake. Harry Enten, thank you so much. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Thank you. Let's discuss tonight's debate showdown with Florida Republican Congressman Byron Donalds. He's a surrogate for the Trump-Vance campaign. He will be in the spin room at tonight's debate.

Congressman, great to see you. Thanks for joining us. Trump is set to arrive in Pennsylvania in a couple of hours. And he recently repeated a claim, an unverified claim, that one in five mail in ballots there were fraudulent. The RNC is encouraging voters there, specifically in Pennsylvania, to vote by mail and early voting. Do you think those kind of statements might wind up confusing or discouraging some of his supporters?

[14:10:06]

BYRON DONALDS, TRUMP-VANCE CAMPAIGN SURROGATE: Well, it's good to be with you. I don't think it's going to discourage the vote for Donald Trump because republican voters, voters that are supporting Donald Trump, independents that are supporting him, Democrats who feel left behind by the Democrat party that are supporting him, they're going to vote.

And the reason why is, is because Kamala Harris broke the border. It is a mess. Kamala Harris was sitting right there next to Joe Biden while they destroyed our foreign policy. We have new wars all over the place. And she was sitting right there. She was the deciding vote when she unleashed this massive inflation on the American people.

So they're going to vote, whether it's by mail, whether it's early or on Election Day, they're getting to the polls. I think on a broader perspective, what you're talking about is that Donald Trump does have concerns about election integrity. But guess what? Many Americans do.

We have to have a process which has to be very clear, very plain, easy to understand, but protects the ballot at all costs for the American people. I think fair elections and safe elections are exactly what the American people are looking for. So we don't have all of this palace intrigue after the elections close trying to find out who won and who lost. We should get that answer rapidly. That's what he's speaking to. But at the end of the day, voters are voting on the issues in this election. And Donald Trump has the recipe for success for the United States of America.

SANCHEZ: A couple of things there, Congressman. You mentioned that Harris was the tie breaking vote on the Inflation Reduction Act. Inflation was already high before that in large part because of COVID and the war on Ukraine, which the U.S. obviously did not start (inaudible).

DONALDS: Well, hold on Boris?

SANCHEZ: Go ahead, Congressman.

DONALDS: Well, Boris, I got to push back on you on that one because that's not factually accurate. Let's set the record straight right now. In 2021, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris brought the inflation -- the American Rescue Plan, excuse me. They brought that to Capitol Hill to get voted on.

Kamala Harris was the deciding vote in the Senate on the American Rescue Plan. It was Bill Clinton's former economic adviser Larry Summers and House Republicans who said that bill will cause inflation. She was the tie breaking vote. Inflation, when they brought that bill, was 1.4% year over, year. After that, passed in 2021, then the inflation exploded on the lives of the American people.

SANCHEZ: So largely, the -- Congressman, largely --

DONALDS: this does (inaudible) Kamala Harris. Her vote is on the record.

SANCHEZ: Largely, that vote, that bill was an effort to address issues that were caused by the coronavirus pandemic. And similar stimulus bills were passed during the Trump administration, similar efforts to push America's economy and to put paychecks in people's hands when so many were out of work.

I do want to get back to your point about questions over elections and palace intrigue. I'm wondering what evidence you have that there were issues of actual widespread election fraud in 2020 that necessitate the kind of adjustments you're talking about, because the main person driving insinuations about fraud was Donald Trump himself.

DONALDS: So Boris, real quick, normally, I would answer your question, but I can't let you get away with what you just said about the American Rescue Plan and this inflation that has crippled families here in Philadelphia and all through the state of Pennsylvania, and all across the country.

Inflation when Donald Trump left office was 1.4% year-over-year. The stimulus package measures that he put into place was when the economy was flat on its back because the world was shut down because of COVID- 19. When Joe Biden and Kamala Harris came into office, many states were already back to work. Their economies were already opening.

And when they wanted to do his American Rescue Plan, which she co- signed because she was the tie breaking vote, we told them on Capitol Hill, you're going to create a labor shortage, which is going to create inflation. Because what they wanted to do was do a massive child tax credit, which, by the way, is the cornerstone of her economic agenda. That child tax credit coupled with all of the other unemployment benefits that Joe Biden wanted to do, that's what caused the labor shortage. The labor shortage in an economy that was already opening up is what caused the massive inflation. So we need to be crystal clear on this.

There were bipartisan packages to support the Apeople during COVID-19 everybody knows we would do that stuff again. But Joe Biden and Kamala Harris need to do the American Rescue Plan. He wanted to do that for his own agenda, for his own name, and it wrecked our economy. And that's why Americans are suffering today.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, we can continue debating the sources of inflation and the child tax credit, which, as you noted, had bipartisan support. But I do want to get a response to you about the questions of election fraud because it seems that they originated with Donald Trump himself. And he continues to perpetuate them.

COVID-19 actually.

DONALDS: Well, a couple things. First of all, we're in Pennsylvania, so let's talk specific to the State of Pennsylvania.

[14:15:04]

SANCHEZ: Sure.

DONALDS: One of the key issues they're having here, and this is really what their legislature should fix, we do it in Florida. They should fix it in Pennsylvania, is that they're not allowed to pre-canvas these ballots. So what happens is the polls close and it takes three, four, five days to find out who won the election. That doesn't make any sense at all. The legislature in Pennsylvania, led by their governor, Josh Shapiro, they should fix that right now.

If the Philadelphia Eagles are there -- if they're playing a football game, trust me, the Eagles fans here in Pennsylvania, they know the score of the game when they're leaving the stadium or when they turn off their TV. But when we're talking about elections, we don't know who won simply because they're not even going through that process in an earlier fashion. Georgia does it. Florida does it. Many other states do. Pennsylvania should change that.

But to a broader level, when you're talking about mail in ballots, one of the key issues is security of that ballot. Depending on your state, you can have a universal mail out process like Oregon, which, quite frankly, I find to be ludicrous. People should request a ballot if they're going to mail it in. That's a simple control procedure to protect the franchise of voting in America. That is Donald Trump's concern. And I will add, when you take a look at it, that's a concern of a lot of Americans.

SANCHEZ: And yet, sir, a lot of states that Donald Trump won in 2020 actually sent out ballots to registered voters. So it's not necessarily cause for concern in states that he won, it seems, among Republicans. I also want to point out since you talked about Pennsylvania, his claims of election fraud in 2020 were adjudicated. And there was a judge that led an appeals court of a three judge panel, but it was actually a judge that he appointed that said that his team brought zero evidence of election fraud in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

Beyond that, you talked about Josh Shapiro changing the election laws there. It is a republican legislature in Pennsylvania, so they could easily address those concerns. It seems like they don't necessarily have that as an immediate priority, again, because there was no evidence of widespread fraud in 2020.

Lastly, Congressman Donalds, there is one more question I have for you. Famously earlier this summer, Donald Trump made some comments about Kamala Harris's race during the National Association of Black Journalists Conference. And he essentially said that she sort of used her blackness to advance her career, saying that he didn't even know that she was black because she didn't put it out there. And I'm paraphrasing his remark there.

She said in response that she invited him to say that to her face. Do you think Donald Trump might do that tonight?

DONALDS: No, because this is an issue nobody even really cares about. He mentioned it once. He hasn't mentioned it again. What Donald Trump is focused on is the American people. It's fixing our economy so people can afford food, can afford housing, can get their car fixed, could potentially go on a vacation. It's securing our border so we don't have illegal aliens taking resources from the American people, hardworking American people, Americans who are down on their luck, something's gone wrong in their life, and they need help. It is the illegal alien crisis created by Kamala Harris and Joe Biden that's taking those resources away from the American people.

It is fixing our foreign policy because we need leadership in the White House, not pandering and not weakness. And that's what Kamala Harris and Joe Biden have brought us. Those are the things that he's going to say to her face. He's not talking about her identity. Frankly, nobody is. She might try to bring it up, but that doesn't matter to the American people. It's one of the reasons why her support in this race might be broad, but it's an inch deep because she's not talking policy, she's not talking about the things that are going to help the American people.

And so I'm just telling you now, Donald Trump' is going to talk to her about the issues that are going to fix our country and make it great again.

SANCHEZ: Respectfully, Congressman, he was the one that brought it up initially unprompted. Congressman Byron Donalds, we do appreciate you sharing your perspective. Look forward to having you on again.

DONALDS: Boris, you're wrong about that, but okay. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Did he not bring up the issue of her race before anyone else did, suggesting that she used it to her advantage? DONALDS: It was actually Rachel -- Boris, it was actually Rachel Scott

of ABC at the National Association of Black Journalists that asked him about whether she thought she was a DEI hire or not. So Rachel Scott is the one that brought race (inaudible).

SANCHEZ: Actually, she was quoting Republicans who have brought that up.

DONALDS: She asked that question.

SANCHEZ: She was citing Republicans who brought that up.

DONALDS: Boris, did Rachel Scott asked that question of Donald Trump or not? Because last time I checked, there's only one Republican nominee and it's not her fault.

SANCHEZ: The Republicans not -- make that accusation that she's a DEI hire?

DONALDS: Bringing out the comment that (inaudible). It's not the point.

SANCHEZ: The Republican is not -- it is. It is. If another Republican says something and they're within your party, I think it's fair to ask you what you think about this, sir.

DONALDS: Let's talk about this appropriately now.

SANCHEZ: We are.

DONALDS: Boris, let's talk about this appropriately. There were -- there was one Republican that said it on Capitol Hill. Another Republican was asked about it.

[14:20:03]

They both said, well, I don't know. Yeah, I think she was when they were asked, actually, by Manu Raju of your network. So that's exactly what happened. Rachel Scott asked Donald Trump a week later. He made his response. Is he going around in rally after rally or policy speech, or doing his -- the podcast interviews he does or network interviews that he does? Is he talking about her identity? No, he is not. He was asked the question by Rachel Scott.

SANCHEZ: Possibly because of the (inaudible) that he got for his response.

DONALDS: In response to it, we have one member said on Capitol Hill. And now, that means all Republicans are asking those questions. Boris, you need to stop that. That's not accurate.

SANCHEZ: Sir, I never said all Republicans were bringing it up.

DONALDS: What our focus on on the American people and the issues that matter.

SANCHEZ: Republicans brought it up and it was brought it up -- and was brought up in conservative (inaudible).

DONALDS: Boris, you said Republicans (inaudible), you just said that.

SANCHEZ: Several Republicans did, sir. It was going around in Republican circles.

DONALDS: I'm telling you exactly what happened.

SANCHEZ: It is. Congressman, it is. Nevertheless, sir, nevertheless.

DONALDS: Boris, that is not true. That is not true.

SANCHEZ: It's a pleasure to talk to you, sir.

DONALDS: And this is the gaslighting.

SANCHEZ: We do appreciate your time.

DONALDS: This is the gaslighting.

SANCHEZ: Thank you so much. It's not gaslighting, sir.

DONALDS: (Inaudible) the American people (inaudible).

SANCHEZ: We do appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. See you, sir. Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.

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[14:25:36]

KEILAR: Happening right now. Former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo is facing tough questioning from congressional lawmakers about his handling of the coronavirus pandemic and the thousands of nursing home deaths on his watch. A GOP led Subcommittee is expecting to pounce on Cuomo for his one-time policy, essentially forcing nursing homes and long-term care facilities to readmit recovering hospital patients without a negative COVID test.

CNN National Correspondent Gloria Pazmino is here with more. Gloria, Republicans on this panel released a 48 page memo ahead of this hearing. What does it say?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, much of what they concluded in the report has already been covered by several outlets, including CNN. And that's the fact that the Cuomo administration knowingly lied about the number of COVID-related deaths in nursing homes, and that they did this in part to tamp down criticism and to protect Cuomo's legacy.

Now, the report by the Subcommittee specifically looked at this so called March 25th directive. And this was an order that the Cuomo administration gave to nursing homes, telling them that they had to accept patients who were COVID positive that were being sent in by the hospitals. And they say that they did this knowing the risk of transmission. Now, separately, the Committee also focused on a report that was

crafted by the state health department and specifically that the Cuomo administration officials worked to edit that report and that Cuomo himself had a hand in doing it and that the whole report was only created in order to tamp down the criticism that the administration was receiving as a result of this policy.

Now, the Subcommittee reviewed thousands of pages of documents, including several emails. And there's one email from top administration officials where they're going back and forth discussing this report specifically. One of the Governor's top aides writes in part, "this is going to be the great debacle in the history books. Get a report on the facts because this legacy will overwhelm any positive accomplishment. Don't you see how bad this is? Or do we admit error and give up?"

Now, Brianna, of course, we know what happened after that. They did not admit error. Only several months later, a report found that they had undercounted these debts. Now, this is the former Governor's most high profile appearance since his resignation in 2021. This is the first time that he is in such a big political spotlight. And the question after this hearing is going to be not just how he performs, but also whether or not this is going to affect his supposed political comeback here in New York. There's a lot of talk about whether or not that is going to happen and whether or not Cuomo is going to have a political future after all of this. Brianna?

KEILAR: Yeah. Gloria, thank you so much as you are watching this hearing. We appreciate it, Gloria Pazmino. And still ahead, Hillary Clinton is the only other woman to face former President Trump in a presidential debate. Her advice to Vice President Harris as she prepares for tonight's debate.

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