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Presidential Race Remains Deadlocked Nationally; Chris Krebs is Interviewed about Election Interference; Fatal Overdoses Fall to Three-Year Low; Mark McKinnon is Interviewed about Moments that Shaped our Culture. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired September 19, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: See you it's so foggy. But, obviously, much nicer here at CNN.

Thank you very much for being with us, Jeff.

All right, with us now, Republican strategist, former senior advisor to Tim Scott's presidential campaign, Matt Gorman. Also with us, Democratic strategist Julie Roginsky.

I want to shift gears if I can here because "Axios" wrote something overnight that really raised my attention. It talks about J.D. Vance's zero shame strategy. And this has to do with the fact that Donald Trump announced he's going to go to Springfield, Ohio, he claims in the next two weeks. "Axios" says of Vance - and it has to do, I think, also with just this - these claims about pets in Springfield. "Axios" says, "backed into a corner over his baseless claims of Haitian pet eating in Ohio, Senator J.D. Vance is taking a page from Donald Trump's playbook, never backed down, never admit fault, never apologize."

What do you think about that?

JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: You know that royal family motto, never complain, never explain. For J.D. Vance and Donald Trump it's always complain and never explain. And that's all they do. They complain and complain and complain but they never explained what they're doing and why they're doing it. J.D. Vance represents Springfield, Ohio, in the Senate. He is their senator, and yet he's exploiting these poor people for his own political benefit, knowing full well, because he admitted it here on CNN to Dana Bash, that the whole thing is invented. Nobody's eating cats. Nobody's eating dogs. But yet Springfield is having real terrorists bomb threats to their schools, to their city hall, all over the place. And he's the senator from Ohio. And I have to keep asking if this is how he's going to treat his own constituents in Ohio, what's he going to do to the rest of us if he gets into power? It's terrifying.

BERMAN: And then, Matt, there's the raw political question of how, if at all, is it still helping. Kate read this before from Tim Maloy from the Quinnipiac poll. And it's interesting. He says, "three crucial swing states wave a red flag at the Trump campaign. Momentum. Likely voters now see daylight in most cases between - little daylight, I should say, between Harris and Trump on who can best handle the key issues of immigration and the economy."

The idea that basically, yes, Trump may have an advantage on immigration, but it's not what it was. So, have they reached the limit of what they get by leaning into these what seemed to be lies out of Springfield, Ohio?

MATT GORMAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, we'll see. I mean, I think a lot of this also is a - a post-debate bump from Harris. Actually, a little which I expected, both nationally and in the states. I want to see, in another week or two, see if things kind of calm down a little bit.

And look, you know, we talk about never explaining. The key point I think Julie said was, he said it on CNN. Also in "Axios" today was the fact that Harris and Walz never give interviews.

BERMAN: Yes.

GORMAN: They never explain any of the things they say. We have barely heard from them from the debate and they're trying to run out the clock on a lot of this stuff.

Look, you get to at least talk to Vance. You get to like hear him explain, defend, whatever you want to say about these things. You're right, he doesn't back down on a lot of these things, but at least he's actually talking to you, unlike Harris and Walz.

BERMAN: OK. I mean, whether or not talking and saying things that are untrue, if that's beneficial, that's a value judgment right there. But I will put up this graphic you were just talking about, Matt, because it is interesting. You know, Donald Trump has done press conferences, interviews 14 times. J.D. Vance, 59 times. Harris, three. Walz, four.

I will note that a lot of the conversations that Trump and Vance have are with like Fox and friendly outlets. You know, not all of them. Trump does press conference as well. J.D. Vance certainly does interviews.

Julie, how many more opportunities are there to reach - if there are no more debates, how much opportunity does Harris really have to reach voters between now and election day, if she's not going to do more interviews?

ROGINSKY: Well, what I've said is that I think Harris should go out there, and Walz too, and do interviews with local media, right, because she needs to go to Pennsylvania. She should go and do it in the Allentown media markets. She should go and do it in the Phoenix media market, in the Detroit media market and so on to reach those voters that she needs to read and talk specifically about issues that impact them, right? Because the rest of us don't know what needs to be done in Allentown, Pennsylvania, specifically, for example, in North Hampton County, Pennsylvania, to really improve their quality of life the way that local anchors do.

And so I think she's missing an opportunity if she doesn't go do more of those. And I think that's something that I hope they campaign will do in the near future.

But I'll also say this. Look, Trump and Vance are flooding the zone for sure with a lot of BS. It's not like they're going out there and telling us what they're going to do, other than making stuff up. And this Springfield example is a great example. It's fine to do press conference and great to do interviews where you're saying people in Springfield, who are Haitian, are eating your dogs and cats. It happens to be absolutely falls. And if you're doing it with Sean Hannity, he's not going to correct you. So, all it is, is an opportunity for you to get out more and more and more of these lies that, by the way, impact real people. I have to keep saying, it's not that they're just making stuff up to make it up. People are literally putting - being put in harm's way because of what they're saying.

BERMAN: And, Matt, you know, Trump and Vance face the same situation where there really aren't many days left until Election Day and there are no debates left. I get the rallies. I get the Fox News things are good - may be good for turnout. But what about persuasion? I mean, do they have any opportunities between now and then to persuade people, may undecideds, to vote for them, and how do you think they will do that?

[08:35:12]

GORMAN: Yes, one of the things I think that's been savvy that they've done kind of suddenly over the last couple months, and Jeff talked about it, I think, very aptly in his pieces today, really expand them male gender gap, right? Like, you've seen Trump go on a lot of podcasts, Theo Von, which is one of the top five podcasts around the world, Bryson DeChambeau play a round of golf with him. You've seen things that specifically targeted men in kind of niche ways to, I think, to Jeff's point, to try and get that gender gap a little bit more because, look, at the end of the day, if we win men more than Democrats - by more than Democrats win women by, we are likely going to win this. So, I think what you're seeing is suddenly them do this under the radar in a very real way.

BERMAN: All right, Matt Gorman, Julie Roginsky, great to see you both this morning. Thanks so much.

All right, stolen emails and sensitive information from the Trump campaign sent to Biden's team when he was still in the race. New details on how Iranian hackers are attempting to interfere in the U.S. election.

And good news this morning. Plain and simple. Overdose deaths in the U.S. plummet. We've got new reporting on what is causing this rapid decline.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:53] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Iran is trying to interfere with your vote. And we have new information now on the efforts - their efforts to meddle in the U.S. election. Federal law enforcement officials now saying that Iranian hackers not only stole information from Donald Trump's campaign over the summer, but now adding that hackers sent it to people associated with the Biden campaign. Law enforcement saying there's no indication the Biden camp - the Biden team ever did anything with the information.

Joining me right now is Chris Krebs. He's the former director of the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency at the Department of Homeland Security, in charge of protecting our elections from all things like this.

It's good to see you. Thanks for coming in.

So, Iran hackers not only stealing information from the Trump campaign. Now we know sending it unsolicited to people affiliated with the Biden campaign.

I want to look at it in - in two parts, if we can, Chris. First, the actual hack.

CHRIS KREBS, CHIEF INTELLIGENCE AND PUBLIC POLICY OFFICER, SENTINELONE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: The way it's described is Iran using kind of a hack-and-leak playbook similar to Russia ala 2016.

KREBS: Yes.

BOLDUAN: How aggressive is Iran being this time around in trying to influence the 2024 election?

KREBS: Well, from what we've seen so far, as you pointed out, they're effectively copying the Russian playbook of 2016. So, they had the hack and leak operation. We know they've gone after some county and local election officials as well. And then, of course, there is a constant disinformation operation using influencers, using social media, using gig economy workers to get out there and protests and counterprotests. So, it does look very reminiscent of 2016. So, we - now we have multiple players on the playing field. A little - you know, much like we did in 2020.

BOLDUAN: And then the new element of sending unsolicited to people affiliated with the Biden campaign. I want to read a statement that came from the now Harris campaign about all of this, which said, "we're not aware of any material being sent directly to the campaign. A few individuals were targeted on their personal emails with what looked like a spam or phishing attempt." And a campaign official told CNN that the material was not used.

Why would Iran send this unsolicited to them? What is the game there?

KREBS: Well, in yesterday's Senate intelligence hearing on foreign threats to the '24 election, Brad Smith from Microsoft had a very pointed comment where he said the '24 election is about Russia verse Harris, Iran verse Trump. If you think about it along those lines, what Iran is trying to do is get as much damaging information or embarrassing information and put it out there on Trump. One way to do it is to give it to the Biden or the Harris campaign.

Now that statement from the Harris campaign is not necessarily inconsistent with I think the facts we have available. If you look at the FBI statement from yesterday, they mentioned that the - the Biden campaign received information. This activity has been going on since June, when President Biden was still in the race.

And so, again, it's not clear how exactly the FBI determined that this information was being sent. They could have found that by accessing the AOL account of the individual, you may remember Robert, that was sending some of this information out to the media outlets, or the Biden campaign itself could have notified the FBI.

So, more to come here. But this is the tip of the iceberg for the Iranian influence operation in the '24 election. We will see more.

BOLDUAN: So, there's the -- it's the outside foreign influence trying to get. And then it's how the (INAUDIBLE) in the midst of this (INAUDIBLE) election.

I want to play for you what Donald Trump said just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But, no, Iran hacked into my campaign. I don't know what the hell they found. I'd like to find out. Couldn't have been too exciting. But they gave it to the Biden campaign. I can't believe it. Oh, yes, I can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I mean Trump claiming, without evidence, that Biden was somehow involved with the hack, despite what the law enforcement statement - statement is saying, which was otherwise.

[08:45:02]

What is the impact of that, Chris?

KREBS: Well, honestly, I don't think there's much. I mean this is a mirror image of 2016 when the Clinton campaign was hacked and information was provided, or at least allegedly provided, to members associated with the Trump campaigns.

So, I think, again, we're seeing this mirror image of what Russia is trying to accomplish, previously and currently, and what Iran is trying to accomplish in the current moment. And this is not (INAUDIBLE) adversaries who have different objectives, different strategies, and they may prefer different outcomes of this election are going to get involved. And so it is a very complicated situation. Unfortunately, the American voter is kind of caught in-between here. BOLDUAN: One hundred percent.

It's good to see you, Chris. Thank you so much for coming in.

John.

BERMAN: All right, new this morning, the CDC says fatal drug overdoses have fallen sharply in the U.S. Down to their lowest level in three years.

CNN medical correspondent Meg Tirrell is with us now.

This is the kind of news you want to see when you wake up in the morning, Meg.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it really is, John. I mean researchers are calling this drop that we're seeing unprecedented. And they're sort of rubbing their eyes and saying, is this real in the data and will this continue?

It is important to note, though, drug overdose deaths are still surpassing 100,000 per year in the most recent years' worth of data, which ends in April from the CDC. But we do see a drop in that most recent year of about 10 percent in drug overdose deaths.

Now, as researchers are trying to figure out how real is this drop and will it continue, they also point to signs beyond just deaths from overdoses that are also going in the right direction. Nonfatal overdoses, they say, have also started to decline by an even greater measure, 15 to 20 percent it looks like in the national data. And research from the University of North Carolina suggests that in individual states we're seeing potentially even bigger magnitude drops in nonfatal overdoses. And hopefully that will translate into a greater national trend in fewer overdose deaths.

But it is still really important to note that during the pandemic overdose deaths soared.

BERMAN: Yes.

TIRRELL: It was much less in 2019. Now we have seen a major increase and now coming down. So, we're at the lowest level in three years, but obviously still too high.

BERMAN: Yes, it is still way too high. No question about that. But a drop of this size this quickly does seem promising.

Do they have any explanations for why?

TIRRELL: This is one of the most fascinating things about this data. It sort of seems like a mystery at this moment. There are a number of interventions that have been put into place. One major thing, of course, is increased access to naloxone, the overdose reversal drug. That has gone over the counter. There are also efforts to just make that more available generally. There is hope that that is helping. Of course, more access to opioid use disorder treatment. Although researchers aren't sure whether that's driving this decline. Fentanyl test strips. There are many different factors that could be contributing to this. Also coming out of the pandemic, of course. But they are still digging into this and, of course, want to understand why so if there are things they can do that are driving this, those can be sustained.

BERMAN: All right, cautious optimism may be in order.

Meg Tirrell, thanks so much for helping explain this all. Really appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, hundreds of homes were forced to evacuate after that pipeline started burning out of control in Texas. Now some families, they're returning to the - and you will see the melted mess that they're going home to.

And billions and billions. The shocking number of golf balls lost every year. Information that is not going to change your world today, but you know you want to know more about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:53:15]

BOLDUAN: Multiple clinics and stores in Springfield, Ohio, forced to evacuate yesterday due to bomb threats. That's according to CNN affiliate WHIO. Those are the latest threats coming in what has become a string of threats coming at the city, all after the false rumors turned amplified conspiracy theories spread by Donald Trump and J.D. Vance about Haitian immigrants eating pets in that community. That's despite the pleas from the city officials to stop lying, despite the Republican governor there calling the misinformation garbage. Well, now Donald Trump, on Wednesday, said he's planning a visit to the town, telling a rally crowd that he's going there in the next two weeks.

Evacuations have now been lifted following the pipeline fire that had flames shooting into the skies in southwest - southwest of Houston, Texas. Now families are returning to a mess. The fire melting homes, insulation exposed. This is just - oh, it's just tragic what they had to return home to. Debris everywhere. Authorities say it all started when an SUV crashed into a store's parking lot fence, hitting the pipeline's valve.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE HUTTO, HOME DAMAGED: I've never had anything like this happen to me. It sickens me. I mean you work all this - all this - all this time to make your house what you wanted, and in the blink of an eye it's gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: The fire burned for three days. Finally, died down.

It sounds like one of those strange job interview questions that test your critical thinking skills and ability handled pressure. Researchers now putting a number to something that we never needed to know, estimating that in the United States the number of golf balls lost per year is about 1.5 billion. Worldwide, you see it there, three to five billion golf balls lost.

[08:55:01]

Where do all those golf balls end up? Not in that pool that you have to tell them how many tennis balls can fill a swimming pool. The answer is, nature. One researcher found, in Pebble Beach alone, as many as 186,000 golf balls end up in the water each year.

John.

BERMAN: I'm just - I'm just trying to envision the interview question that you could ask these days about - never mind. I'm moving on.

On stage - on stage at the Emmy's -

BOLDUAN: No, lean in, John. Lean in. Reckless abandon.

BERMAN: Candice Bergen called out J.D. Vance and his campaign against childless cat ladies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CANDICE BERGEN, ACTRESS: My character was attacked by Vice President Dan Quayle when Murphy became pregnant and decided to raise the baby as a single mother. Oh, how far we've come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: There was even more than that too.

She was, of course, referring to her character, Murphy Brown. That show in the dustup with Dan Quayle is featured prominently in the new episode of the CNN original series "TV On the Edge: Moments that Shaped our Culture." Here is a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dan Quayle put that line in the speech specifically because he wanted to set off fireworks. You know he did that on purpose.

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He knows how you'd react.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you fell for it, Michael.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He knew how you'd react. LISA SCHIFFREN, FORMER SPEECHWRITER FOR VP DAN QUAYLE: You know, I've always felt that the aftermath of the speech was hijacked.

MARK MCKINNON, POLITICAL ADVISOR: That became a narrative that didn't really reflect what the speech was about. But I would say that's Quayle's fault for serving it up.

LARRY KING: If you had to do it again, would you do it again?

DAN QUAYLE, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Absolutely.

KING: That was not a mistake?

QUAYLE: I don't think it was a mistake.

KING: That's a very popular show.

QUAYLE: Look, just because it was a popular show, do you - do you stay away from it when you're trying to use that show and Hollywood to make a point. And if we are losing our compass toward values, traditional values, family values, shouldn't we speak up?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, with us now is Mark McKinnon, whom you saw in that clip. He was a former adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain, the creator of "The Circus," and apparently an avid "Murphy Brown" fan when it aired on television.

Look, you said in that clip it wasn't what Dan Quayle intended there. How so?

MARK MCKINNON, FORMER ADVISER TO GEORGE W. BUSH AND JOHN MCCAIN: Well, he - they were trying to make a broader point about just the importance of parenthood in our culture. But as I said there in the clip, you know, what's important is what you - you have to understand what you're unintended consequences would - are going to be in politics. And that threw a huge rock in the culture war pond that - and the ripples would continue until last week with Murphy Brown at the Emmy's, which is amazing that this has come full circle.

But in a way it was kind of - I describe it as the Fort Sumpter of the culture wars. When Republicans start talking about how we - how we should live, or how women should live their lives, or what they should do, or if you prefer a revolutionary war metaphor, John, it's the - it's the shot heard round the world. But it's - you think - I - you know, when we did the interview in the dock (ph), the childless cat ladies hadn't happened yet. And so think about how this has come full circle. It started with Dan Quayle attacking women for having a - for being single parents. Now we come to J.D. Vance, another vice presidential character, attacking women for - for not having children. But it's OK that they had cats.

BOLDUAN: I mean, I - it really is pretty full circle. I'm trying to - there's not - you know, it's not really apples and oranges at all. And how - what does it say about how far we have - have not come when you can compare all of your wisdom from then to what we're looking at now?

MCKINNON: Well, you know, and in my view I think Republicans - I think a lot of this election is about that. I mean you heard Tim Walz on the campaign saying it's none of your damn business. And the fact that Republicans are still trying to ring this bell, I think they're in a - in a cultural cul-de-sac on these issues.

And I think that, you know, we'll see what the outcome of the election is, but I think that there's going to be a huge factor relating to the problem of Republicans telling women across America how they should live their lives, how they should parent, whether or not they should have kids or cats. And I think it's going to be a huge problem. And it's one that started 30 years ago with Dan Quayle. It's a fascinating story.

BERMAN: Yes, in national - in national elections, Mark, have these types of culture wars ever helped Republicans? This hasn't - you know, this isn't how George W. Bush ran in 2000, a campaign that I covered and you worked on. I don't remember this kind of thing with him or with McCain in 2008.

MCKINNON: No, I agree with you, John. And I think that that's - that's what attracted people like me across the bridge was that George Bush didn't talk about that, he talked about compassionate and conservatism, being compassionate for, you know, others in our society and people we, you know, we share our community with, not attacking them for the way that they live.

[09:00:02]

And - and I - as I said, I think it's been a problem for Republicans since 1992 and remains one today. And I think Republicans may see the consequences