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Democratic Presidential Candidate Kamala Harris has Sit-Down Interview with Bret Baier on FOX News; Donald Trump Attempts to Answer Question in Townhall from Former Republican Concerned about Events at U.S. Capitol on January 6th, 2021; Review Panel Calls for Overhaul of Secret Service Leadership; US B-2 Stealth Bombers Strike Iran-Backed Houthis in Yemen; Fake Electors Return. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired October 17, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Bipartisan election officials have begged them not to do the things that they have been doing so close to the election. They have been warned, including by their own attorneys that the rules they were putting forward could be illegal. And now that is what the judge essentially said in this ruling, that they were putting forth a number of rules, whether it has to do at hand counting the number of ballots, whether it has to do a certification that just do not align with the law. And that is what the judge said in his ruling in saying that these rules cannot go forward. Again, this is a big smackdown for very unusual behavior from a state election board.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, calling it unconstitutional is just that, a smackdown. Thank you so much, Sara Murray. Appreciate your reporting on all of this.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Kamala Harris taking her campaign back to college this morning, courting younger voters in Wisconsin just after she went where she's never been before, a combative sit-down interview with FOX News.

And also just as Donald Trump is trying to win over undecided Latino voters, saying at one point, maybe I'll get your vote, but sounds like maybe I won't.

And a scathing new report released moments ago recommending a complete overhaul of Secret Service leadership. We have that new reporting ahead for you.

And a new round of U.S. airstrikes against an Iran proxy. Why the timing and the method of those strikes is so critical.

I'm Kate Bolduan with Sara Sidner and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, new this morning from "The New York Times," quote, "The vice president arrived for a FOX News interview. She got a debate." They noted it was the debate she could not get with Donald Trump. "Political Playbook" states, quote, "Kamala Harris goes Baier hunting." Of course they are referring to her exchange with Bret Baier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: It was essentially a pathway to citizenship --

KAMALA HARRIS, (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: May I please finish?

BAIER: Yes.

HARRIS: May I finish responding, please.

BAIER: We're talking over each other. I apologize.

HARRIS: And I, and I would like that we would have a conversation that is grounded in full assessment of the facts.

Let me be very clear, my presidency will not be a continuation of Joe Biden's presidency.

BAIER: I hope you got to say what you wanted to say about Donald Trump. There are a lot of things --

HARRIS: HARRIS: There is more to say. I have much more to say.

BAIER: There are a lot of things that --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And as for Donald Trump, he in a separate event facing a Republican voter who gave him a chance to win him back after all his misinformation before, during, and after January 6th. It did not appear that Trump did when him back.

Let's get right to CNN's chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny. A lot of new things over the last few hours, Jeff. These candidates facing a lot of questions.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John, good morning. Facing a lot of questions, and it was that contentious interview with Bret Baier on FOX News that Vice President Harris and her campaign is touting this morning as an example of something that she is willing to do, to go into the lions' den, bears' nest, whichever metaphor you want to use there, to make the case to independent voters, perhaps some moderate Republican who are troubled by the former president but not yet ready to sign on the dotted line for her.

It's an open question, of course, how much progress, if any, she made in that regard. But she did press the case for how her presidency, she says, would be different than Joe Biden's.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS: Let me be very clear. My presidency will not be a continuation of Joe Biden's presidency. And like every new president that comes into office, I will bring my life experiences, my professional experiences, and fresh and new ideas. I invite ideas, whether it be from the Republicans who are supporting me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: And Republicans have been kind of a central theme of her candidacy. They're trying to win over just a sliver of, again, moderate Republicans, perhaps some Republican leaning independents who have not yet been sold by her. But that's why she's in Wisconsin today to continue to press that case, John. These blue wall states or so important to her strategy. Of course, Donald Trump won them in 2016. Democrats fear that he's doing better here than her, but that's why she's campaigning three stops today across Wisconsin.

BERMAN: You know, it's interesting, Jeff. You say that Harris has been trying to win Republican votes. Donald Trump in this Univision town hall needed to win back a Republican vote that he lost. It doesn't appear then he did.

ZELENY: John, that was such an interesting exchange. We seldom see the former president answering unfriendly questions, if you will. This was an exchange from a Republican who said he was concerned with the actions of January 6th. He was concerned with the former president's comments about that.

[08:05:02]

So we asked a direct question. He said, will you set me at ease, will you explain what happened that day? But the former president said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You had hundreds of thousands of people come to Washington. They didn't come because of me. They came because of the election. They thought the election was a rigged election.

But that was a day of love from the standpoint of the millions. I spoke, and I used the term "peacefully" and "patriotically," but they couldn't get me because of the fact that I said everything has got to be peaceful and patriotic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: A day of love, of course, is not how the history books will remember that.

But John, for all of this, with early voting underway across the country, it is these three states Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin are at the center of this race. Again, Vice President Harris here today, I'm told Donald Trump is coming back to Wisconsin again next week for rallies. BERMAN: It may not be the last time. Jeff Zeleny in Milwaukee, Jeff, great to see you this morning. Thank you. Sara?

SIDNER: All right, Kamala Harris spoke to the FOX News audience during that fiery interview, as you heard, and Trump took questions from the Latino American voters in a Univision townhall. Here are the responses to tough questions on particularly immigration, one of the big issues. Kamala was asked to detail how many immigrants had come into the country illegally during her time as vice president. Trump was asked why he wants to crack down on Haitian immigrants over the lie that they were eating people's pets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER: It was called the U.S. Citizenship Act of 2021.

HARRIS: Exactly.

BAIER: It was essentially a pathway to citizenship for the --

HARRIS: May I please finish.

BAIER: Yes.

HARRIS: May I finish responding, please?

BAIER: But this --

HARRIS: You have to let me finish.

With all due respect, that clip was not what he has been saying about the enemy within that he has repeated when he's speaking about the American people. That's not what you just showed.

BAIER: I hope you got to say what you wanted to say about Donald Trump. There are a lot of things that --

HARRIS: There is more to say. I have much more to say.

BAIER: -- there are things that people want to learn about you and your policies, and that's why we invited you here.

HARRIS: I invite everyone to go to KamalaHarris.com.

TRUMP: I was just saying what was reported. That's been reported. And eating other things too, that they're not supposed to be. But this is -- all I do is report. I have not -- I was there. I'm going to be there, and we're going to take a look. And I'll give you a full report when I do. But that's been in the newspapers and reported pretty broadly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Joining us now, former Obama administration official and CNN commentator Van Jones, and Jonah Goldberg, editor of "The Dispatch" and CNN political commentator as well. Thank you both for being here. Van, to you. What did you think of the two responses that you saw there on the issue of immigration and some of the things that have been said by Donald Trump and Kamala Harris?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I thought Kamala Harris did a magnificent job. First of all, I would now hope Donald Trump will go on MSNBC and talk to Rachel Maddow, OK, because that is very tough to do when you're on unfriendly territory. She went there. It was rude from the beginning. It was disrespectful from the beginning. It was talking over her. He was clearly not there to ask questions. He was trying to attack her on behalf of Donald Trump.

And it did not go well for him, because it's an inkblot test. If you like Kamala, you're going to like it more. If you don't, you're going to like it less. But Kamala Harris was able to acquit herself well in a hostile environment. Donald Trump couldn't even answer a basic question about the dogs and cats lie or about the attack he led on the capital. So people will see what they want to. And Kamala Harris, Vice President Kamala Harris went into the lion's den and came out unscathed.

SIDNER: Jonah, do you think that some voters from what you saw from both of these things, the Univision town hall and this combative interview with FOX's Bret Baier, do you think it might sway voters in any way?

JONAH GOLDBERG, "THE DISPATCH": I'm very skeptical that it will. At the very least, I mean, this is a point that Van has made in the past, the test for both of these campaigns now is to get voters whose choice isn't between Harris and Trump so much as it is between staying home or voting for the candidate that they like.

And so in this way, I think the Trump people thought this was a great interview for them. I agree that it was an inkblot. That's why they put up the entire interview on Twitter. And the Harris people think it was a great interview for them because they're trying to speak to different sets of voters, and because it's an inkblot, different sets of voters that they're trying to get will see it differently.

Where I disagree with Van on this is I don't think -- look, I think there are some legitimate criticisms about specific choices that Bret Baier made. But I think Bret Baier is a serious journalist. He gave Donald Trump a pretty serious interview two. I don't think he's comparable to someone like Rachel Maddow. I don't think he was necessarily intending to be disrespectful. I can understand why people would hear it that way, because he was worried about her filibustering.

[08:10:00]

I don't think she did a magnificent job. I think she did a conventionally mediocre job, maybe even a bad job, had some good moments. But I agree with Van, because it's an inkblot for most people, if you like, as Van said, if you'd like Harris, you liked it. If you like Trump, you didn't like it. I don't like either of them, and so I thought Trumps answers were appalling and continue to be appalling. And I think Harris's answers were underwhelming. And if this is a normal political season, I would say, God, she did a bad job. Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis would do so much better. But that's not the world that we're living in.

SIDNER: Jonah, I didn't know you were a double hater. They're still double haters out there.

(LAUGHTER)

GOLDBERG: Double hater is strong. I'm not voting for either of them.

SIDNER: All right, double disliker doesn't sound as good.

(LAUGHTER)

SIDNER: Van, I do want to ask you, because there was a moment that a voter could have been swayed. And that moment was on the Univision townhall with Donald Trump, who this voter said, look, I was a Republican. I am no longer Republican. Can you convince me to vote for you? I am concerned about what happened on January 6th and the fact that your vice president is not is not going to vote for you and is not supporting you. And we saw the response to that just earlier where Donald Trump said that January 6th was about love and peace. Describe what you saw on the face of the voter who said he wanted to be convinced to vote for Donald Trump, and what it might mean for others who are on the fence.

JONES: I saw on the face I'm not convinced. And I saw on the face of Donald Trump a delusional person. There's something wrong with Donald Trump. He is just making up stuff. That was -- that was not a love and peace fest, that was not Woodstock. That wasn't we are the world. That was a riot. It was an insurrection, it was treason. There are people in prison, there are people who are dead because of what happened that day. And he played a role in it.

And the fact that he continues to lie about his role and lie about what happened is very, very unfortunate. It's very, very dangerous. It's very, very scary. And you combine that with his other bizarre behaviors, his weird danceathon for 40 minutes when he's supposed to be taking questions. If we had a Democratic -- if Kamala Harris was doing danceathons at her town halls, the whole world would be up in arms.

We've just lowered the bar and lowered the bar and lowered the bar into the sewer and below so whatever Donald Trump says is supposed to be OK. Meanwhile, Kamala Harris is putting forward substantive policy questions. She's got actual plans, actual policies. You may not like Donald Trump, you may not like Kamala Harris, but if you just close your eyes and listen to what they're saying, one person actually has policies, the other person who seems to be off his meds.

SIDNER: Kamala Harris told FOX News viewers that her presidency will not be a continuation of Joe Biden's presidency. Jonah, to you first. Will voters believe this? And is it important for voters to believe this an order for her to get into office? GOLDBERG: I think so. And I have to say, her answer last night was

better than what she did on "The View" and some other places. It could still be better. There are all sorts of ways she could say I'm going to do things different than Joe Biden. The Biden administration did things that in the fullness of time and in retrospect I think we would all do over.

I mean, there are a lot of better answers I think she can give on that. But Biden is just an unpopular president. We live in a time of high inflation. People are in a change mood, and she should be able to do better on it than she has.

And I will say just one -- I think it's an important point about this interview. One of the things about that interview that I think really hammers home is that she made a mistake not doing more tough interviews. She's better when she's angry and on defense and pushing back than when she has softball interviews. That was our best stuff last night.

SIDNER: And sort her in the prosecutorial realm.

JONES: I agree with that.

SIDNER: -- something that she is actually well familiar with.

Jonah Goldberg, Van Jones, thank you both so much for that sincere debate.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: So this morning, police in Argentina are still trying to piece together exactly what happened to Liam Payne, one of the stars of the former pop sensation boyband One Direction. He fell to his death from a hotel balcony overnight.

And also new reporting just out this morning, the Department of Homeland Security just hammering the Secret Service and calling for a total overhaul of its leadership now.

And also breaking overnight, the U.S. carried out airstrikes against the Houthis in Yemen on five underground facilities.

We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:19:05]

BERMAN: All right. breaking news: A scathing new report just released minutes ago, recommending a "complete overhaul" of leadership across the Secret Service.

Let's get right to CNN national security reporter, Zach Cohen for the details on this -- Zach.

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, John, this report is not only highly critical of the Secret Service for its failure to secure that Butler rally site where Donald Trump was almost shot and killed on July 13th of this year, but it also points the finger directly at the current leadership at the Secret Service and raises a series of "deeper concerns" about the agency that has caused it to become, "bureaucratic, complacent, and static."

Now, this report was put together by an independent panel of former law enforcement officials that includes a former secretary of Department of Homeland Security. And this panel writes that: "Many of the issues that the panel has identified throughout this report, particularly regarding the panel's deeper concerns, are ultimately attributable directly or indirectly to the Service's culture. A refreshment of leadership with new perspectives will contribute to the Service's resolution of those issues."

[08:20:07]

And then it goes on to say that "... bravery and selflessness alone, no matter how honorable are insufficient to discharge the Secret Service's no fail protective mission." And that mission obviously came close to failing on July 13th.

And acting Director Ronald Rowe, who we should note is a long-term secret service official. He has risen through the ranks of the agency. He is currently the acting director.

This does suggest, the panel thinks that he needs to step away from that job and be replaced by somebody from the outside, somebody could bring in a different perspective because clearly, the agency is riddled with problems.

And it goes through to highlight some of the other issues with the security around Trump's Butler rally site that we've reported on extensively including the failure to block the line of sight from the rally stage to those buildings where the shooter was ultimately perched on top of, the failure to secure those buildings prior to the rally and during the rally and also those communications breakdowns that really resulted in law enforcement on the ground and Secret Service, they being on different pages and leading to the shooter getting eight shots off that day.

So John, look, this is going to be something that is going to send shockwaves through the Secret Service and something that ultimately puts a lot more pressure on acting Director Ronald Rowe and the other leadership that is still there.

BERMAN: Calling for big changes.

All right, Zach Cohen, thank you so much for that -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Also breaking overnight, the United States has carried out new strikes against an Iran-backed proxy group targeting the Houthis in Yemen and striking five underground weapons storage facilities using B-2 stealth bombers.

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin saying that the strikes show that the United States can reach its targets "anytime anywhere."

Let's go to CNN's Oren Liebermann. He is at The Pentagon for us.

And Oren, what more are you learning about these strikes and impact?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Kate, this is the first time we have seen the US use the B-2 stealth bomber to target Houthi facilities in Yemen over the course of the past year.

We have generally seen strikes with fighter jets, which certainly pack a punch, but not like a strategic B-2 bomber which can carry a heavier a bomb load, a heavier payload and you see the targets here, five underground hardened weapons storage facilities.

The Pentagon says these facilities house the type of weapons, the missiles, the advance components that have been used to target not only US navy warships in the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden, but also commercial vessels that have repeatedly come under fire including last week when the Houthis hit an American oil tanker with ballistic missiles.

The Houthis have also shot down and claimed to have shot down multimillion-dollar US drones that have operated over Yemen. The Pentagon and the US have made clear that if these attacks continue and it certainly looks like they're going to, the US will respond and you see part of that response here with B-2 bombers and other military assets taking part in this strike.

It is very clearly a message anytime the US uses a bomber like this and talks about it openly, not just to the Houthis, but in this case, it also seems like it is targeted very much at Iran.

In a statement, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said afterwards that this shows "That the US can reach anything that our adversaries seek to keep out of reach, no matter how deeply buried underground hardened, or fortified."

Kate, that certainly sounds like a message to Iran whose own nuclear facilities match that exact description of underground fortified facilities. The US showing it has the ability to reach across the world with a stealth bomber and be able to hit those targets when it decides that that is the decision and that is the operation that it is going to take out.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it seems very clear the message was sent to reach much further outside of Yemen for sure as you're highlighting.

Great reporting as always. Thank you so much, Oren -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right, new this morning, we are seeing video of a terrifying tornado touching down in Florida, Neighbors rushing in to save a man who was trapped after his entire home collapsed.

And overseas ballots used by military members now the target of GOP- backed lawsuits less than three weeks until the election. Details on all of that, ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:05]

SIDNER: New this morning, CNN has learned, more than a dozen fake electors who participated in this scheme to subvert the 2020 election will serve as official electors for Donald Trump in this election, which is of course just 19 days away, including several who are currently facing criminal charges.

CNN's Marshall Cohen has more on the story.

First and foremost, where are these electors?

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Sara, they are in some of the most important battleground states this year. Remember, we are talking about the Republican activists who four years ago signed phony certificates falsely proclaiming that Donald Trump won their states when he actually lost.

That's what Donald Trump tried to use, those fake certificates, to overturn the election on January 6th.

But four years later, this cycle, some of those fake electors are back and they have been selected by Republicans to serve as Trump's official electors.

Look at this map here. Michigan, six of the 15 electors this year for Donald Trump were fake electors four years ago, and they are all facing criminal charges.

There is also a bunch in Pennsylvania, five of 19. Two fake electors in Nevada are coming back this year, and one is coming back in New Mexico, not really a battleground state, but the Trump campaign still tried to overturn the results there four years ago.

Okay, so why does this matter? Well, these are the people that were selected by the Republican Party to participate in the Electoral College process.

We all go to the polls in November, but the electors vote in December. It is part of the transition of power and there are a lot of folks worried that if these people were willing to subvert the process for years ago, they might be willing to do it again this time around if Donald Trump loses.

But Sara, it is not just fake electors who are filling up these slates of Trump electors in 2024. Our team also found another dozen election deniers, Republican activists, who have publicly questioned the legitimacy of the 2020 results. Those are the people that will be trusted with participating in the process this year.

Let me read for you a little bit of what these folks have said, some of them, the false claims that they have peddled about the last election. Some of them said that the election was filled with cheating. Another one claimed that China rigged the 2020 results. One of the electors this year, tweeted on January 6, "Rage on, patriots." And yet another one of the electors selected by Republicans for this cycle once referred to Joe Biden as the acting president.

[08:30:46]