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Israel Confirms Hamas Leader Killed In Gaza; Harris, Trump Work To Broaden Appeal In Final Stretch To Election; KFF Survey: Inflation Top Issue Among Women Voters; Texas House Committee Asks Death Row Inmate, Set To Be Executed, To Testify. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 17, 2024 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

JOSH ROGAN, "WASHINGTON POST" COLUMNIST: And then after they did it, he totally changed his mind. He said, OK, it's a good idea afterward.

So it's very clear that the Biden ministration is following the events rather than shaping them.

And if we just listen to what Vice President Harris said, her position hasn't changed. She still wants to see the war end now. And I agree with M.J. and Clarissa, there's no indication from anything said today who said today that he's interested in that.

And on the Hamas side there's no assurance that Sinwar will be replaced by a friendly or more diplomatic terrorists. It's usually not the way it goes. And so I think this is going to get a lot worse before it gets any better.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Well, that's very important to note because American officials, as you said, they're striking this sort of hopeful tone, maybe this is a window of opportunity.

But we also ask Major Spielman of the IDF and he also said that maybe this is opportunity, but he was also very careful to say the enemy --

(CROSSTALK)

ROGAN: Yes, it's a nice thing for both of them to say. Neither of them believes it. You don't believe it. I don't believe it, right? So it's not like -- I mean, sure, it would be great if everyone decided right now to stop fighting.

But everything we see on the ground and everything we know indicates the opposite is going to happen. These operations are intensifying, not the other way around.

And when the Israelis say they want total victory, well, that's not what they have. So all wars end in diplomacy, but only when one or both sides is exhausted enough to sue for peace. And neither side seems to be doing that right now.

And it's -- Harris is stuck because she wants to appeal to Arab and Muslim-Americans, especially in Michigan, by saying that she's for Palestinian peace in in the Middle East.

But the administration is not willing to do anything to pressure the Israelis to move towards that goa. And that's a terrible political situation for her, but also terrible for the Palestinians and Israelis caught in the crossfire.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it's just kind of interesting when you look at all the different -- different aspects of this.

Because from a strategic perspective, this is actually to both Israel's and the U.S. advantage to basically break the ring of encirclement that the -- Iran and it's proxies have actually exercised around Israel during this period.

So now that Israel has moved into -- you know, has done this, has basically killed two major leaders of Hamas and Hezbollah and, of course, the echelons below that, there's been a lot of movement in that way.

So the Israelis are basically broadening the area that they actually control. They are creating a -- more of a safety zone. And from a purely military perspective, this makes a lot of sense.

And it's also in the U.S.'s interest that Israel be secure that way. And so it's a fine line that they have to work because they're looking at it -- the administration and the Harris campaign, they're looking at it in a way where they -- as you said, they want to make sure that they get some advantage out of this and that have helped them.

And it is -- the key thing is, when Harris said that Iran was the most important threat to the United States, what she was talking about was this particular moment in time, that right now Iran is that threat and this helps the U.S. with that particular argument.

ROGAN: I guess I agree that this -- there's a series of tactical advantages, but as for strategic advantage, I'm not so sure. I mean, the United States military had nothing but tactical victories for 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan and somehow managed to lose both wars strategically.

And if the goal is to hold a lot of territory, well, that's pretty problematic, too --

(CROSSTALK)

LEIGHTON: -- Iraq.

(CROSSTALK)

LEIGHTON: Well, I don't think we lost Iraq.

ROGAN: OK. Well, I'll stand by my assessment on that one.

But the bottom line is that, without any idea of what the end state is going to look like the day after the fighting stops, we can't say that there we're any closer to a strategic situation where there is peace and stability for Israel, Palestine, or the United States.

(CROSSTALK)

ROGAN: So I think you can have a lot of tactical victories and still end up having a strategic setback.

LEIGHTON: Oh, yes. And that's very true because there's the war and then there's a piece of you've got to win his if you're going to really achieve victory.

KEILAR: Colonel, Josh, great to end on that note of agreement. We appreciate it. And we appreciate your insights. Thank you so much.

So we have much more head on our breaking news. And we have the latest on the presidential election.

SANCHEZ: Yes, we're going to talk about whether the media blitz by the two presidential candidates actually will pay dividends.

[14:33:56]

Stay with CNN. We' be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:38:23]

KEILAR: In this last stretch to Election Day, we're seeing a major push by the presidential candidates to reach beyond their bases in what is an exceedingly tight race. And they're doing so by delivering their final pitches to very specific groups of voters.

We saw Harris trying to win over some conservatives yesterday, appearing on FOX for her first-ever interview with the network.

And in the meantime, Trump is courting Latinos, speaking to voters during a town hall that aired on Univision last night.

Let's talk about this now with pollster and communications strategist, Frank Luntz.

Frank, first, let's start with Harris' interview on FOX. She interviewed with Bret Baier. And at one moment, he tried to get Harris to insult people who support Trump.

Here's how she responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: -- the 50 percent were stupid and --

(CROSSTALK)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would never say that about the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What did you think overall about the interview? You can also talk about that moment if it stood out to you. But do you think that this interview helps her or do you think it hurt her?

FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER & COMMUNICATIONS STRATEGIST: I want you to remember that, in the end, it's not what you say that matters. It's what people hear. It's not that she did the interview. It's who saw it and what the reaction was.

It was a contentious interview. It was very difficult and very alarming to some viewers to see these two individuals arguing with each other.

If you're a conservative, you thought that Bret Baier got the better of her. If you're a progressive, you thought that she clearly won.

To me, the issue is, did she answer the questions that people care about most on immigration and on prices, on affordability. And I don't think that her answers were -- were of the scope that people will look -- looking for specifically.

[14:40:09]

What would you do at the border? Do you take responsibility for what happened? And most importantly, what are you going to do in the future?

Now it was contentious just. And Bret jumped on her several times for not being clear and concise.

For her efforts, she did. She was clear about her views towards immigration in general, and specifically the border. But in the end, you have to answer the question, why did it get this way? And I don't feel like she gave that answer.

Now, I'm equally critical of Donald Trump, which I think you're going to get to about his interview in the town town-hall. The fact is Trump needs to say less and Harris needs to say more.

Trump should be quiet and Harris should be vocal on where she stands for and what exactly she plans to do.

KEILAR: So during that Univision town hall, there was a former Republican voter who said that Trump actually lost his vote after January 6th, Frank, and then gave Trump the opportunity to gain it back.

Specifically, let's listen to reaction from the audience during Trump's answer here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some of those people went down to the capitol. I said peacefully and patriotically. Nothing done wrong at all, nothing done wrong.

And action was taken, strong action. Ashli Babbitt was killed. Nobody was killed. There were no guns down there. We didn't have guns. The others had guns, but we didn't have guns.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: There were some people who had guns. And they had a myriad of weapons. I do just want to be clear on the facts there.

But what did you think about his representation there? What did you think about his appearance?

LUNTZ: It doesn't work. And I realize that your viewers right now are saying, do I like anything? It's not whether I like it or not. It's whether voters are impacted by it.

Donald Trump, I don't think realizes that his weakest stand and where he's most on defense and he's found no way to get around it, are the events to January 6th.

Whether you agree or disagree with his election, nobody liked what happened on January 6th. Nobody wants anything like that to ever happen again.

And J.D. Vance's defense of Trump on January 6th, and the unwillingness to acknowledge that Trump lost the election and Joe Biden won it, continues to weigh down the possibility of some voters switching from Harris to Trump or undecided to Trump.

Anytime he's talking about January 6th, Donald Trump is losing.

KEILAR: There's a group, of course, that Trump is struggling with, is women. In a recent KFF survey, interviewed women in June, again in September, and found a 39-point swing among Democratic women who say they're satisfied with presidential choices, a 29-point swing among the same group who say the election makes them feel hopeful.

What's interesting to note here is that it found a majority of women on both sides of the aisle consider inflation and household expenses their top issues. And they say that they trust Harris more to handle household expenses.

What did you make of that, Frank.

LUNTZ: I find that interesting that you can either focus on how well Harris is doing among women but focus on how well Donald Trump is doing among men.

You can focus on the fact that the gender gap gets more and more narrow, the older that you get. The fact is Harris is doing unprecedentedly well among young women, 18 to 29.

And Donald Trump is doing unprecedently well among men over age 50. So it just depends on which side of the coin you want to look at. In the end, I actually think they're going to be divorces. I actually

think it's going to cause a lot of strife over Thanksgiving, Christmas, as men lineup on one side and women lineup on the other.

But in the end, the key is going to be turnout. And whether young women come to the polls or older men come to the polls because that -- it doesn't matter where you stand right now. And it doesn't matter who you say you're voting for. The only thing that matters is voter participation.

And what have we seen? Georgia is setting record numbers in early votes. I think this is going to end up being a very high turnout election. And it's still on a razor's edge.

KEILAR: I hope they are not divorces over this. I think you know more -- more about how people feel as you do your focus groups.

So I worry, as you say that, but maybe we draw the line at a little Thanksgiving strife.

Frank Luntz, thank you so much.

LUNTZ: I hope you're correct, but I'm not convinced of it.

KEILAR: I -- I believe you on that, sir.

All right, so during Harris his interview with FOX, she also went after Trump's recent comments about using the military to handle what he called the enemy within. Simply put, some Americans specifically his enemies politically.

[14:45:01]

SANCHEZ: Yes, and he's specifically mentioned Nancy Pelosi, Adam Shiff, other Democrats. Harris pushed back after the network used a sound byte that didn't fully capture what Trump said about it during a town hall.

We want to play that moment followed by the sound byte that didn't air in the segment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER: We ask that question to the former president today. Harris Faulkner had a town hall and this is how he responded.

TRUMP: I heard about that. They were saying I was like threatening. I'm not threatening anybody. They're the ones doing the threatening. They do phony investigations. I've been investigated more than Alphonse Capone. He was the greatest

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: No, it's true. We don't --

(CROSSTALK) TRUMP: It's called weaponization of government. It's a terrible thing. So --

HARRIS: Bret, I'm sorry. And with all due respect, that clip was not what he has been saying about the enemy within.

TRUMP: It is the enemy from within. And they're very dangerous. They're Marxists and Communists and Fascists, and they're sick.

And here's a guy like Adam Shiff, because they made up the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. It took two years to solve the problem. Absolutely nothing was done wrong, et cetera, et cetera. They're dangerous for our country.

We have China, we have Russia, we have all these countries. If you have a smart president, they could all be handled. The more difficult - you know, the Pelosis, these people, they're so sick and they're so evil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss with CNN chief media analyst, Brian Stelter.

And, Brian, you've been rolling back the tape, not only of this interview, but also Bret Baier's interview with Donald Trump last year. What did you find were some of the differences.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Yes, because FOX does have a big audience that is very loyal. So the interviews that happen on FOX matter a lot.

You can tell a lot about an interview based on the first question that's asked. So watch Bret Baier asked Trump a first question last year, and then watch his first question to Harris.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER: Mr. President, thanks for the time.

TRUMP: Thank you.

BAIER: You know, I've asked this question, the same first question to all the candidates I have interviewed this year. And that is this: What do you think is the most important issue facing the country right now?

Madam Vice President, thank you for the time.

HARRIS: Thank you. It's good to be with you, Bret.

BAIER: You know, voters tell pollsters all over the country and here in Pennsylvania that immigration is one of the key issues that they're looking at this election, and specifically the influx of illegal immigrants from more than 150 countries.

How many illegal immigrants would you estimate your administration has released into the country over the last three-and-a-half years

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: What a striking difference. With Trump, he warmed up his subject, trying to make Trump comfortable. With Harris, he went for the jugular right away.

We looked at the transcripts of both interviews and found that he also interrupted Harris a lot more often. This, of course, reflects what the FOX audience wanted to see. They wanted to see Harris squirm in her seat.

Now, to be fair, Baier also pressed Trump, challenged Trump about his classified documents and mishandling. So both interviews were probing but in very different ways.

And with Harris, one of the big takeaways is that she sat there and was interrupted over and over again. Some people think she was man- splanned. Of course, others think she was filibustering and avoiding Baier's questions.

KEILAR: I mean, Brian, what did Harris achieve? I mean, she clearly went in with a goal to perhaps attract some conservative voters over maybe some who are on the fence, maybe some women.

Did -- did she do that?

STELTER: I think we boil it down to one word, "tough." She showed that she was tough. She went into the lion's den or the FOX den, in this case. She showed FOX viewers, even real skeptics of her, that she's willing to take questions.

Of course, they're going to want more. Journalists always want to ask more questions. A lot of viewers have more questions too.

But she did show that kind of toughness. Whether that actually matters on the margins, I think that's impossible to know until November 5th.

SANCHEZ: Brian Stelter, thanks so much for the analysis.

I wonder what kind of den we have here at CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: That's the lion's den, just like a taco --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: The Panda den.

KEILAR: The panda den, the panda dean. The hotdog den, the panda den. These are things.

SANCHEZ: Brian, thanks so much for being with us.

[14:49:13] Still to come, a serious, serious matter. A Texas death row inmate who advocates insist is innocent has been called to testify about the lawfulness of his conviction next week. The issue is that his execution is scheduled for tonight. The latest on the fight to free Robert Roberson next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: New today, a Texas death row inmate, Robert Roberson, has been subpoenaed to testify before a Texas House committee. And that committee is reconsidering the lawfulness of his conviction in 2002 for murdering his 2-year-old daughter.

KEILAR: The testimony is scheduled for Monday. But here's the thing. As of right now, his execution is still scheduled to go ahead tonight here in just a few hours.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is live in Huntsville, Texas.

Ed, what's the latest?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna and Boris, we are about four hours away from the scheduled execution of Robert Roberson. And there is still a number of avenues by which his advocates hope this can be stopped.

You mentioned one of them, which is this unprecedented and historic move by a state House committee here in Texas that has issued a subpoena. That committee is investigating the medical testimony that was delivered in this case.

And they have scheduled and issued a subpoena for Robertson to appear next week before the committee after the execution date. Clearly, this is an attempt by that committee to try to halt this execution.

[14:54:59]

Also, his -- Robertson's lawyers are also working through the U.S. Supreme Court and the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals to halt this.

During the state House committee yesterday, meeting, there was seven hours of testimony. Much of it included medical experts that we're trying to convince of the courts that this medical testimony that was used to convict Robert Robertson was faulty.

We spoke with Barry Scheck, one of the co-founders of the Innocence Project. And he talked about why that testimony is so important. He hopes judges are listening.

BARRY SCHECK, CO-FOUNDER & SPECIAL COUNSEL, THE INNOCENCE PROJECT: No one who saw that hearing would walk away believing that there is a substantial risk, if not a definite reality, that Texas could kill an innocent man at 6:00 tonight.

So the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals must reconsider this. They must reconsider this for their own reputation. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Look, Boris and Brianna, we're no indication so far that any of this is happening. As we mentioned, the execution is scheduled for 6:00 Central Time, 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

KEILAR: All right, the clock is ticking. We'll be watching.

Ed Lavandera, thank you for the report.

And next, back to our breaking news, the death of Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar. Families of American hostages still held by Hamas tell us they are terrified about what may happen next. We'll have more on the latest from the Middle East.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)