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Michigan Secretary of State Explains How Her State Is Prepared For Post-Election Challenges; How Political Fundraising Is Exploiting The Elderly; Ex-Abercrombie CEO Indicted On Sex Trafficking Charges. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 23, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: What do I mean? Let's talk about the Senate race from two years ago. John Fetterman, the Democrat, won that Senate race. Biden got 62.7 percent in Delaware County. Look at that -- Fetterman got 62.9 percent -- almost exactly the same. That's a winning margin there.

Hillary Clinton, OK, got just 59.6 percent, so almost a three percent difference. That can be the difference between winning and losing.

And it's not just Delaware County, it's these other counties surrounding Philadelphia, too. Montgomery County, which is just to the north of Delaware, Biden got 62.6 percent; Hillary Clinton, 58.9 percent.

Again, let's look at Bucks County, the most Republican of the counties surrounding Philadelphia. Biden, 51.7 and Hillary Clinton got 48.5.

You can see that three-point difference or so in all the counties surrounding Philadelphia. One reason that's so important for Democrats to boost their results in the counties around Philadelphia, in Philadelphia County itself -- yeah, Biden cleaned up. He got 81.4 percent. But Hillary Clinton actually did better in 2016.

So in the urban area itself with Philadelphia the Democrats might be slipping a little. It's the suburban areas where they're cleaning up.

And just to give you a sense of how much that has changed over the last 20, 30, 40, 50 years -- a generational shift -- 2020, Joe Biden got 62.7 percent in Delaware County where they will be today.

I'm going to go on the way back machine to 1988 before Kate Bolduan was born. George H.W. Bush got 60 percent. So Republicans used to win 60 percent in Delaware County and now it's the Democrats doing it and needing to do it if they want to win Pennsylvania, which they need to win the election -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: I mean, what -- you're buttering me up for something and I'm not entirely sure, but I am here for it. Thank you so much, John. Let us focus in though.

Kamala Harris is preparing today to take questions from undecided voters tonight in a CNN town hall that John was just laying out right there where she will be. She's also talking about her team is prepared if Donald Trump's team declares victory before all the votes are counted and expressing in a new interview fresh concern about post- election violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Of course. This is a person, Donald Trump, who tried to undo the free and fair election. Who still denies the will of the people. Who incited a violent mob to attack the United States Capitol, and 140 law enforcement officers were attacked; some were killed. This is a serious matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Former President Barack Obama also warning of this as well while campaigning for Kamala Harris in Detroit, Michigan last night, recalling these scenes you see on your -- on your screen -- the chaos and violence that happened there stoked by election misinformation pushed by Trump in 2020.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The day after the 2020 election thousands of mail ballots were being counted right here in this convention center. And because Donald Trump was willing to spread lies about voter fraud in Michigan, protesters came down, banged on the windows shouting "Let us in. Stop the count." Poll workers inside being intimidated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now is the Secretary of State of Michigan, Jocelyn Benson. Secretary, thank you for being here.

You remember those moments probably better than anyone other than the people who were being intimidated and threatened inside that building.

How are you and your office preparing differently this year compared to the last election for the possibility of threats of violences and challenges that could be coming at you in the wake of this election?

JOCELYN BENSON, (D) MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE (via Webex by Cisco): Well, thanks for having me.

And yes, we have been preparing, really, since that time for a resurgence of those same tactics in 2024. So we've been holding scenario-planning exercises all around the state because we realize that type of disruption might not just occur in Detroit. It could occur in Flint, in Benton Harbor, in other communities in our state. And so we have partnerships with law enforcement and first responders on the ground to ensure we're able to de-escalate or mitigate anything like that from reoccurring.

We've also reminded people that our system is rooted in transparency. And so if you have questions about how we're -- you know, how paper ballots are being counted, become a poll worker is what we've invited people to do so you can watch and observe in a legal way without disrupting the process so that people know they have access to observing but can't disrupt.

BOLDUAN: This also happened to you personally. People will remember this and the threats that came to you directly. I mean, protesters showing up at your home in the wake of the 2020 election because of this misinformation. You've talked about the impact it had. Your young son there with you as people were shouting obscenities and shouting into bullhorns.

Are you afraid that's going to happen again this time?

[07:35:00]

BENSON: We always say we hope for the best, but we plan for every contingency. And, yeah, that unfortunately is one of them -- not just targeting me and my home in the middle of the night, but election officials all around the state and all around this country.

And so it is -- it has created this state of hyper anxiety for all of us. We have passed laws in Michigan to make it a crime to threaten election officials in their line of work. And we have, again, partnerships with law enforcement to address these things quickly this time.

But certainly, all of these possibilities we know could erupt again. We are as prepared as possible and we're determined to ensure if they do occur that they will not ultimately achieve their goal of blocking the will of the people of Michigan, whatever that may be, from coming to fruition.

BOLDUAN: So, also happening this week in Michigan, two times in two -- two times in two days just this week judges rejected lawsuits brought by Republicans in Michigan challenging aspects of voting.

Monday was the RNC who was trying to challenge some overseas ballots. That was rejected. Tuesday was the RNC trying to purge Michigan voter rules. That was rejected as well.

Is this the end of -- is this the end of it do you think -- these challenges?

BENSON: No. In fact, some of them have been filed multiple times and dismissed multiple times as a way of kind of keeping this misinformation out there -- keeping that narrative alive that somehow there's something irregular or awry with our practices in Michigan.

But the reality is Michigan's elections are secure. We've followed the law and we'll make sure every valid vote and only valid votes count, and we'll continue to defend our processes in the court.

And we'll continue to tell the public everything we do to increase the integrity of our elections so that we can be assured of a -- of a clear and smooth process. And we ask everyone to respect that process instead of trying to disrupt it, whether it's through lawsuits or sham legislative hearings, or outside people's homes.

BOLDUAN: The -- more broadly, election misinformation -- that machine is already in full swing. I mean, we've -- conservatives sharing uncorroborated instances of machines flipping votes in Nevada is one example.

Another example is U.S. intelligence agencies said just yesterday that Russian operatives are behind false online content attempting to smear Tim Walz, including baseless accusations about his time as a teacher.

What are you seeing in terms of that in Michigan?

BENSON: An uptick, certainly, both on social media and elsewhere of misinformation -- lies targeting candidates, lies targeting voters. Because the reality is the hardware of our systems -- our elections infrastructure is secure, so to hack into our systems -- foreign entities will try to hack into the minds of voters to confuse them and create chaos and fear about the realities of our elections and the people running for office.

So this is a moment for everyone to be critical consumers of information. To question, seek multiple sources, seek out trusted information from reliable officials so that you can't be fooled by these tactics to misinform the public as a way of dismantling democracy.

BOLDUAN: Secretary -- Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, thank you very much -- John.

BERMAN: All right, breaking overnight a revealing new interview in The New York Times with John Kelly, the longest-serving chief of staff to Donald Trump when he was in the White House. General Kelly talked about what Trump told him about Adolph Hitler.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KELLY, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: He commented more than once that, you know, that Hitler did some good things too. And, of course, if you know history -- again, I think he's lacking in that, but if you know what Hitler was all about, you'd be pretty hard to make an argument that he did anything good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The Times also asked about Trump's reported disdain for the military.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: But he basically said to you that those who died for America on the battlefield were losers and suckers, and he said it more than once?

KELLY: Yes, but he never could wrap his arms around why would serve, uh, the country in uniform. What was in it for them? I think he just could never wrap his arms around why people would do things selflessly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. With us now, Kevin Carroll, former senior counselor to John Kelly when he worked in the Trump administration.

Look, a lot of this has been reported in the past using blind quotes and whatnot. This is the first time we've heard Gen. Kelly say it himself out loud.

Why do you think he has chosen to do it two weeks before an election?

KEVIN CARROLL, FORMER SENIOR COUNSEL TO JOHN KELLY (via Webex by Cisco): John, I think the general chose to speak out on the record and on tape at this time because the stakes are so high. This is a person who, as the general said, frequently praised Adolph Hitler who wants to return to the office of the President of the United States. And it's just a really important fact to have on the record before people go into the voting booth.

BERMAN: Um, if it is so important and the stakes are so high for Gen. Kelly why not endorse a candidate? He says, apparently, he believes that as a retired military officer he should not.

CARROLL: I think that is his view. You know, he still views himself, understandably, as a retired multi-star general flag officer and doesn't want to see the military get dragged into partisan politics. At the same time, I can tell you the guy would rather chew broken glass than vote for Donald Trump.

BERMAN: Well, chew broken glass but not endorse.

When he uses language like fascist, when he talks about someone wanting to become a dictator, do you think -- is it your opinion that the stakes are so high that Gen. Kelly might need to look at this a different way?

CARROLL: I don't need to ask him what he's going to do when he goes into the voting booth. I understand --

BERMAN: Oops -- Kevin, you still with me? We're going to wait just one second for Kevin to come back up here.

I will say that the Trump campaign, in various ways, have come out over the last 12-24 hours criticizing John Kelly as they always have, in some cases denying the conversations took place. In other cases, saying that Gen. Kelly has "beclowned" himself. That statement coming from Trump associates.

Unfortunately, I think we've lost Kevin Carroll there -- the vagaries of connections in television in this day and age.

But what Kevin Carroll was saying there that was important was he said he thinks he knows who John Kelly would vote for. He'd rather walk through broken glass -- he says John Kelly would -- than having Donald Trump elected again. And he believes that Kelly came out with this audio interview because he thinks the stakes are so high -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thank you, John Berman.

An NBA first -- father and son playing together on the same team. LeBron James and his son Bronny making history last night playing for the Lakers.

CNN's Andy Scholes has the story.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Well, Sara, LeBron and Bronny both calling it a moment they will never forget. And LeBron entering his 22nd season last night; Bronny, his rookie season, of course.

And early on in the game with the Timberwolves, LeBron giving Bronny some advice on the bench.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEBRON JAMES, FORWARD, LOS ANGELES LAKERS: Y'all ready?

BRONNY JAMES, GUARD, LOS ANGELES LAKERS: Yeah.

L. JAMES: You can see the intensity, right? Just play carefree though. Don't worry about mistakes. Just go out and play hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: And with four minutes to go in the second quarter, the moment we were all waiting for. LeBron and Bronny checking in together becoming the first father-son duo to ever play together in the NBA. They got a standing ovation from the crowd.

Moments later, LeBron -- the pass the Bronny. He puts up the three, but it was no good. Now, Bronny didn't score in his three minutes on the court. LeBron finished with 16.

The Lakers won the game 110-103.

And here was dad afterwards on the historic night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. JAMES: It's family. It's always about family over everything. And, you know, for me, I lost a lot of time because of this league -- the commitment to this league -- being on the road at times and missing a lot of his things, and Bryce's things, and Zhuri's things. So to be able to have this moment where I'm working still and I can work alongside my son is one of the greatest gifts I've ever got from the man above and I'm going to take full advantage of it.

B. JAMES: Just going up to that scorer's table with my dad and checking in for the first time, that's a crazy moment I will never forget.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCHOLES: And Ken Griffey Jr. and his dad, who were the first-ever father and son to play together in baseball, were at the game and took a picture with LeBron and Bronny during warm-ups.

And Sara, LeBron and Bronny were the fourth father-son combo in team sports history but they're likely going to go down as the one and only to do it in basketball.

SIDNER: It was just a lovely family moment there.

All right, thank you to our Andy Scholes. Over to you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: That is amazing to see that.

New details this morning into the investigation of the former Abercrombie & Fitch CEO now indicted on more than a dozen federal sex trafficking charges.

And a CNN exclusive. An investigation into predatory campaign fundraising tactics targeting the elderly, including people suffering from dementia. CNN finding in multiple instances life savings just wiped out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So he had essentially put himself $50,000 in debt after he had given them his life savings. And this is all from $10.00 and $25.00 donations.

JASON BENJAMIN, FATHER LOST LIFE SAVINGS THROUGH POLITICAL DONATIONS: It's really outrageous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:48:37]

BOLDUAN: A new CNN investigation is looking at the dark side of some of the enormous sums of money being raised this election cycle. This exclusive reporting uncovered hundreds of elderly Americans, including many suffering from dementia, are being exploited by unsavory political fundraising tactics. We're talking about millions of dollars lost and for some, entire life savings.

Groups representing both political parties are involved but the biggest beneficiary of the smaller-dollar donations from unwitting donors identified by CNN was Donald Trump.

CNN's Kyung Lah has this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

J. BENJAMIN: So you made more than 100 donations in one day.

RICHARD BENJAMIN, LOST LIFE SAVINGS THROUGH POLITICAL DONATIONS: My gosh.

LAH (voiceover): The Benjamin family has had this conversation before. Eighty-one-year-old Richard Benjamin just doesn't remember.

J. BENJAMIN: So between these two months it's over $60,000.

LAH (voiceover): Richard Benjamin has dementia.

R. BENJAMIN: WinRed -- boy, there was a lot of them WinRed ones.

LAH (voiceover): Ultimately, he gave away more than $80,000 in political donations, all going through a fundraising platform called WinRed. Republican campaigns rely on it to solicit donations often using misleading ads through email and text messages like, "We tried to warn you, but you kept ignoring us. President Trump personally tapped YOU. This. Is. Not. A. Drill."

[07:50:10]

J. BENJAMIN: When we looked at his phone his phone told the whole story because he would get --

MICHELLE GOLDNER, FATHER LOST LIFE SAVINGS THROUGH POLITICAL DONATIONS: Dozens.

J. BENJAMIN: -- dozens of text messages a day referring to him as a patriot and thank you for helping us save America.

R. BENJAMIN: I was dealing with President Trump and so it came up that when I -- when they wanted to find out what I was doing that's what I put in.

J. BENJAMIN: He really, in his heart, believed that Donald Trump, and Donald Trump Jr., and other politicians were personally reaching out to him.

GOLDNER: He had essentially put himself $50,000 in debt after he had given them his life savings.

J. BENJAMIN: And then he did it again.

LAH: And this is all from $10.00 and $25.00 donations.

J. BENJAMIN: It's really outrageous.

LAH (voiceover): CNN's investigative team reviewed more than a thousand public reports and complaints and found deceptive political fundraising by Republicans and Democrats has victimized hundreds of elderly Americans, misleading them into donating far more than they intended, and it adds up.

A sample of just 52 elderly donors, many who suffer from dementia or cognitive decline, gave away more than $6 million of their life savings -- a majority to Donald Trump and other Republican candidates.

KAREN, MOTHER LOST LIFE SAVINGS THROUGH POLITICAL DONATIONS: She basically drained all of the accounts -- everything but $250.

LAH (voiceover): Karen's mother, Jolene, gave Republicans nearly $200,000. She died earlier this summer from stage four cancer amid cognitive decline.

We met Karen at her mother's home in California. It's empty as she prepares it for the rental market. Karen asked we not use their last name fearing retaliation.

KAREN: I have this pit in my stomach. It makes me feel like throwing up thinking that the last months of her life were about her being swindled. It's just -- it's incomprehensible. It really is. It's unconscionable what they've done.

LAH (voiceover): As Karen reviewed her mother's bank records and the text messages on her phone it became clear how that money disappeared so quickly.

LAH: She just got another text.

KAREN: Um-hum. It's endless.

LAH: This is while we've been here.

KAREN: Nine-thirty-six, 9:44, 9:48, 9:51, 9:53, 9:55, 9:56, 10:01, 10:04, 10:06, 10:07, 10:10, 10:14, 10:16.

LAH: I mean, it's every few minutes.

KAREN: It's every few minutes.

LAH: And what does this say? Make --

KAREN: Oh, make this monthly recurring donation.

LAH: And it's checked already.

KAREN: Yep.

LAH (voiceover): The box is pre-checked, meaning the campaign can automatically withdraw recurring donations monthly, even weekly.

We tried to reach WinRed by phone --

RECORDING: Your call has been forwarded to voicemail.

LAH (voiceover): -- text, and email.

LAH: All right, 4250. And then went to the address that WinRed lists as its headquarters in Virginia.

Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

LAH: I'm Kyung Lah from CNN. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh.

LAH: Could I speak with somebody from WinRed?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are not located in the building on site.

LAH: WinRed lists this address officially with the state of Virginia, but they don't actually have anyone here.

LAH (voiceover): Though CNN found nearly seven times more complaints from Republican donors. Families of Democratic donors have also unwittingly given away their money.

Matt and Dave Weisbart's mother, in cognitive decline, donated more than $200,000 to Democratic campaigns through ActBlue.

MATT WEISBART, MOTHER LOST LIFE SAVINGS THROUGH POLITICAL DONATIONS: It's elder abuse. There's no doubt about it.

LAH (voiceover): By talking publicly they hope one thing might work to get ActBlue to return some of their mother's life savings, shame.

WEISBART: The right thing to do, the moral thing to do is to return that money to her. They don't have to. It's not -- it's not illegal what they did but it's morally wrong.

LAH: WinRed did not reply to our request for comment, but the Trump campaign did, saying that it notifies donors before processing recurring donations and has staff on hand to help with cancelations and refunds.

ActBlue did send us a statement saying that it has a service team to help donors and accommodates as many refunds as possible beyond a 90- day refund window if there are signs of cognitive decline.

Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: What a story.

All right. On our radar this morning a federal judge has given Rudy Giuliani seven days to turn over his Manhattan apartment and other valuable possessions to the two Georgia election workers he defamed. The former Trump attorney and New York mayor owes Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss $150 million.

[07:55:10]

Giuliani's lies led to threats against the mother and daughter forcing them to live in fear for their lives. Giuliani singled them out, accusing them of ballot tampering, falsely, in Georgia. It was all a lie he kept repeating. Giuliani's spokesman said -- has not immediately responded to requests for comment.

All right, this is an awful story. Police arrested a 15-year-old after five people were found dead inside a home in Washington State on Monday. Authorities say two adults and three young teenagers were killed after deputies responded to multiple 911 calls of a disturbance with gunfire.

CNN affiliate KING identifies the adults as Mark and Sarah Humiston. Another child, a girl, was injured and taken to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle. Officials say they believe the victims and the suspect are likely members of the same family.

And call it a case of the appearing ancient artifacts. An investigation is underway in Poland after a collection of more than 100 bronze age items -- we're talking spearheads, necklaces, shields -- we left anonymously outside a historical association. The crime, finding treasure without permission.

Those artifacts, dating thousands of years B.C., would require permission to properly excavate. That is according to the Polish police -- John.

BERMAN: All right. New this morning -- new this morning, new information on the criminal allegations facing the former CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch, Mike Jeffries. He is set to be arraigned in New York on Friday for federal sex trafficking and international prostitution charges. Prosecutors claim that while he ran Abercrombie & Fitch Jeffries and others recruited men with job offers and groomed them to perform at "sex parties."

CNN's Brynn Gingras is here with us. You were here when this news broke --

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- yesterday and now we have much more information. What are you learning?

GINGRAS: Yeah, because we see the indictment, right, and it's pretty grotesque -- I'm not going to lie to you. We won't get into too many details about that but it's important to point out here that, like you just said, he resigned -- or rather retired from the CEO position at Abercrombie & Fitch in 2014. Prosecutors are alleging all of this, at least these charges that he's related to right here, is from December 2018 to March 2015.

So they say he was using his influence, he was using his power, his wealth to do basically all of what is alleged in this indictment.

And what is alleged is he and his romantic partner Matthew Smith, along with a third man who was considered sort of a middle man in this conspiracy -- that middle man would essentially recruit men from all around the world -- men who typically wanted to be a model -- wanted to further their careers in some sort of way with Abercrombie & Fitch possibly -- and would groom them. Basically, have them try out to eventually meet with Jeffries and his romantic partner Matthew Smith.

And they would attend these sex events. And at these sex events, according to the indictment, there was Viagra pumped into these men. There were some horrific things that they would have to do, including signing an NDA, wear costumes, and essentially perform sexual acts on both Jeffries and his romantic partner Matthew Smith. So a lot of grotesque details coming out in this indictment.

And as you just said, he is going to be back in New York to face these charges. He was actually arrested in Florida along with Smith who is detained right now. Jeffries was released on $10 million bond yesterday, but they'll be back here on Friday to face a judge in New York.

BERMAN: And one interesting thing, and I didn't realize this until you brough it up --

GINGRAS: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- is this all sort of stems from a documentary --

GINGRAS: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- that was done.

GINGRAS: The BBC documentary. Kudos to them.

Let's listen to some sound that came from that documentary of one of these people who are accusing them of these acts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was escorted to the front doors of the bedroom. When I entered that room, the door was closed behind me. My feeling of being in that room was an animal. I was not a human to any of these people. I was a body. I was being presented to someone to do what they wanted with. What happened to me changed my life, and not for the better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: I mean, just horrific allegations. And one -- that was just one of them that came forward. There were several that came forward in that documentary.

Following that there was a civil lawsuit against Jeffries. You might all remember this because Abercrombie & Fitch was dealing with it while Jeffries, again, was no longer the CEO, having to rebrand itself and having to change all of its management.

But then right after that, that's when the NYPD, the Eastern District of New York, and the FBI all got involved and they started this investigation, and it seems to be the fruits of their labor. So we'll see how this continues.

BERMAN: We will see as these new details keep on coming out.

GINGRAS: Yeah.

BERMAN: Brynn Gingras, thank you very much. GINGRAS: Yeah.

BERMAN: Sara. Oh, I should say the next hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL -- a brand new hour with new information begins right now.