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Democratic Presidential Candidate Kamala Harris to Attend Town Hall to Take Voters Questions in Pennsylvania; Former Marine General and Trump Chief of Staff John Kelly States in Interview that Donald Trump Admires Dictators and Fits Definition of "Fascist"; Election Officials in Key Swing States Fighting Misinformation; Iranian Brigadier General Charged in US Murder-for-hire Plot. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired October 23, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you very much. Sara?

Oh, I should say, the next hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL, brand-new hour with new information begins right now.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: In this hour, Vice President Kamala Harris will be back in battleground Pennsylvania for a CNN town hall and taking questions from voters still trying to make up their minds at this late hour.

And while she's preparing for that, her opponent, Donald Trump, is facing fallout from two new explosive details in articles published. His former chief of staff calling him a fascist who praised Hitler and warning he'll be a dictator if he wins another term.

And right now, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken is meeting with Saudi leaders after urging Israel to capitalize on the death of the Hamas leader and end the war in Gaza.

I'm Sara Sidner with Kate Bolduan and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thirteen days to go, and the latest this morning, more than 20 million people have already voted early in states across the country. Election Day is today. Today also, Vice President Kamala Harris is gearing up to face undecided voters on CNN. She will be on this stage tonight in Pennsylvania for a CNN town hall.

As for Donald Trump, he is facing new questions about what he really believes and what he has said. Overnight, Trump's longest serving chief of staff, retired Marine General John Kelly, went on the record, telling "The New York Times" that Trump is "certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators, -- he has said that. So he certainly falls into the general definition of fascist for sure," John Kelly says. Kelly also told "The Atlantic" in a separate interview about conversations that he had with Donald Trump after Trump reportedly said that he needed the kind of generals that Hitler had. General Kelly saying to that, that he asked Donald Trump, he basically said, surely, you can't mean Hitler's generals. Kelly says that Trump responded that that is exactly what he meant. "Yes, yes. Hitler's generals," he said Trump responded.

Trump's campaign is firing back CNN's political director David Chalian joining me right now, Trump's campaign saying this is fabricated and this is false. Still, it is what it is and it is out there now.

But let's first start with where you are, David, and then we'll add this into it. You're there in Pennsylvania at the site of the CNN town hall where Kamala Harris will be this evening. What do you think is her main task tonight? What is the one big thing that you're watching for?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well Kate, you know, and we've talked about this a ton, that given that I think this is her 95th day as a presidential candidate, that she is still actually getting known by the American public, which is not usual so late in a campaign. And so I think one of the main goals for her is to show voters in these closing 13 days her ability to communicate with voters like them, to hear their concerns, hear their questions, and address them directly. I think we haven't seen a ton of her in that kind of setting, and this is an opportunity for her to both make the affirmative case for her candidacy, but as we've been seeing from her on the campaign trail every day, I have no doubt she's going to draw the contrast with Donald Trump every opportunity she gets.

But in talking to her campaign, those two things, the affirmative case for her and the contrast with Trump, that's something they have to do every single day all the way through.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And so Trump's campaign is pushing back on these explosive comments from John Kelly. Trump's campaign calling them false and fabricated. What's very not clear at this moment is what impact, if any, they will have, right?

CHALIAN: Yes. I mean, I think that history has proven to be a good guide here over the last nine years that the things that are unthinkable that we learned Donald Trump has said or what he is told people in confidence or behind closed doors, and those emerge in explosive news reports, and time and time again, we don't see that moving the needle all that much politically.

Now, I will say, as you know, there's this, and you just mentioned, there are more than 20 million people have already voted, Kate, so there's this very winnowing field of truly undecided voters or persuadable voters. It's a very narrow slice that both Trump and Harris are pursuing. So might this be a new data point to be introduced to those voters and may cause them to sway? Sure. Do I think that's going to change the calculus of the election? Probably not. But you're right, we simply don't know.

[08:05:00]

What we do know is it is totally unprecedented to have your former chief of staff, your former Homeland Security secretary, a well decorated general in the U.S. military to say that he is the only president that seems to go against the grain of what America stands for, of America being America, that that is not part of his equation. That is truly remarkable to hear from John Kelly. Again, whether or not it impacts the final 13 days of this race, I think that remains to be seen.

BOLDUAN: Yes. It's great to see you, David. You laid out perfectly the big night tonight. David Chalian, thank you so much. John?

BERMAN: All right, with us now, Jim Messina, former Obama campaign manager and CEO of the Messina Group, and Maura Gillespie, former press adviser to then House Speaker John Boehner and founder and principal of Bluestack Strategies.

I want to play the sound that Kate and David were talking about just there. John Kelly, on the record, out loud in an interview with "The New York Times," listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KELLY, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: He commented more than once that Hitler did some good things, too. And, of course, if you know history, again, I think he's lacking in that, but if you know what his you know what Hitler was all about, it would be pretty hard to make an argument that he did anything good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So Jim, what does the campaign manager's playbook say you're supposed to do when your opponent is quoted as praising Hitler?

JIM MESSINA, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN MANAGER: You put it on TV, you talk about it. You have the candidates talk about it. And that's what the Harris campaign is doing. Harris has begun reading from some of the quotes and Trump has said recently. They're clearly going to seize on these explosive allegations.

David Chalian's point before, we're sitting here 13 days out and voters are starting and make up their mind. We're down to about four percent of voters who are undecided here. And this is another fact that the Harris campaign is going to try to use to say to these voters, this guy is not in it for you. Come to us because we are. And it'll help. And I guarantee you Kamala Harris addresses it tonight in the CNN town hall.

BERMAN: What about that, Maura? How much time should she spend, if it's up to her, on Hitler versus an economic plan?

MAURA GILLESPIE, FORMER PRESS ADVISER TO THEN-HOUSE SPEAKER JOHN BOEHNER: I think she should focus more on policy plans she's going to put forward. People want to know, they're looking for any excuse to vote for Donald Trump, right? Those who are on the fence, they're looking for any excuse now to. So they're really looking at, OK, give me something to go on here.

It doesn't necessarily mean -- she could hit on the Hitler thing all she wants, and I would, too, but I was focused on what moving forward looks like. We already know Donald Trump is and what he has said and what people in the military, senior leaders in the military have come out and said against him, people who worked with him closely for years have said against him. And so for those Trump supporters that are die- hard, they're going to stick with him no matter what. They don't believe it.

But I think for those undecideds and for those who are looking for an excuse to vote for one way or the other, this is one reason they may not necessarily go vote for Kamala Harris. I don't think that some of them will. But for them not to vote for Donald Trump is a win for her, I would think. But again, it's not necessarily something about, OK, can I pull them over to vote for her? Can I get them to stay away from voting for Donald Trump.

BERMAN: And Jim, what else do you think Harris needs to do at this town hall? What's the checklist?

MESSINA: Well, first of all, she's got to lay out a very clear vision for what she wants to do for this country. And she's only been in this race 90 days. People are still getting to know her and talking about her story. She has an incredibly powerful story of why she's in this. And now she came from the middle-class grassroots that so many of these voters do.

And then, two, she has to draw a very clear contrast with Donald Trump. She can do both of those things. In modern campaigns, and in this moment, she needs to do both of those things. And I think that's what you've seen her do day after day. These voters are just starting to pay attention here. It's now just about time. And so I think this will be a well watched town hall in Pennsylvania tonight. And I think you're going to see your draw a very clear contrast with Donald Trump.

BERMAN: And Maura, I want to ask both of you this, but you first. Harris did an interview with NBC where she was asked about the possibility that on election night, whoever is ahead, Donald Trump will declare victory. What will you do? And Harris basically said, look, we're on this. We've got teams that people who are standing at the ready to deal with this. Maura, is that enough?

GILLESPIE: It's not going to quell the concerns people have, and people are right to have concerns given what happened in 2020 and the months that followed. I think that the comments coming out from General Kelly, the comments he made during a rally yesterday in North Carolina talking and praising dictators, this should really concern people.

[08:10:00]

But it also should concern the Republican Party who are looking to win in the House and the Senate. They should really be concerned about these comments because it doesn't bode well for them if voters get turned off by somebody purporting to want to be a dictator and has no qualms about saying that. So I do think that Harris tonight needs to really reinforce that, that they are prepared for what happens when Trump does say that the election is fraud before we even have the election, the results, I mean. I think he will. So it's a concern.

But if I were her tonight, just speaking candidly, I think that she should really focus on women, especially Pennsylvania, Bucks County, things like that, talk a little bit of what Wawa, make it a little Wawa reference. I think that'll go along way with Pennsylvania, enjoy the moment, and try and really embrace the future of the country, not always looking backwards.

BERMAN: Yes, Wawa always sells, and remember, it's a commonwealth, not a state.

Jim, to you, the idea that, look, elections don't end anymore. Someone who runs campaigns, they don't end it anymore when the last vote is cast.

MESSINA: No, in the old days, you would know on election night whether you won and the race would be over. And now we're going to fight this out in the courts. John, the Trump campaign and its affiliates have already filed 100 lawsuits in the battleground states going after everything from early votes to voting by mail to voting locations. And what they're trying to do is set up a legal fight after the election. And I think we'll be right back here talking about all these fights. It's sad, but we know what he's going to do. We did it in 2020. He's going to attempt to steal this election, and we're going to be right back at it having to have the courts deal with some of these issues.

BERMAN: The important thing that voters need to know is your vote counts. Your vote matters whether you cast it today, early in person, by mail, or on November 5th. Maura Gillespie, Jim Messina, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it. Sara?

SIDNER: Happening at this hour, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken is in Saudi Arabia meeting with leaders as we speak and calling on Israel to get the hostages home and end the war.

As millions of people vote early across the country, election officials are fighting a flood of misinformation and fraud accusations. We will talk about those.

Plus, the DOJ has indicted an Iranian official for allegedly planning a murder for hire plot against an Iranian American journalist. Those details ahead.

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[08:17:00]

SIDNER: This morning, election officials in key battleground states across the country are fighting election misinformation. Uncorroborated claims are bouncing around social media of voting machines, flipping votes, and widespread fraud in mail-in ballots. And with early voting well underway, those claims are ramping up.

With me now, CNN political correspondent, Sara Murray.

Sara, how are officials working to try to deal with these claims? Many of us have already seen them ourselves.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely and hopefully you've also seen some of these officials from states and prominent counties jumping in on social media, jumping in to try to debunk this stuff as fast as possible. But as you pointed out, a lot of this stuff has already ricocheting around the internet and this isn't new.

It's the claims of machines flipping votes. It's the notion that if it takes a while to count, then election officials must be up to something. It's widespread fraud among mail ballots, things that just aren't happening, but have become such popular claims especially in the conservative ecosystem and I want to play one that got spun out of control in the last couple of days and it's based on Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

He was on CBS over the week began where he was actually debunking another claim about machines flipping votes and he was asked about how the counting is going to play out in Georgia. An important question. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER, GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: All early votes and all early accepted ballots, they all will have to have their results reported by 8:00 PM. That's 70, maybe even 75 percent of all the vote totals will be reported no later than 8:00 PM on election night.

MARGARET BRENNAN, CBS NEWS MODERATOR, "FACE THE NATION": Will it take seven days to tabulate votes, as he said? Absolutely not, what we will be waiting for is the overseas ballots that come in no later than Friday. And so those will then be the final numbers. And we'll just see if that makes a difference in the total vote totals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: So, you see him pointing out in a razor thin race, these military ballots, these overseas ballots may matter. Well conservatives took what he said, whipped it up and made it sound like the Georgia secretary of state was saying there's absolutely no way we are going to have results for three days. They made it sound like he was suggesting that that last 25 percent of the outstanding vote was all military and overseas ballots.

Again, something he didn't say, you still have the election day vote there, but you see how people can try to twist these words and kind of take them out of control. And this is, as you see there all happening while people are going to the polls casting their ballots.

There was another prominent example of this kind of conspiracy theory playing out in Tarrant County, Texas. This is a place where somebody went in. They cast a ballot. They said the machine flipped their vote.

What election officials are saying is that someone went in, they pushed a button on the screen. They said the printed ballot didn't match what they chose, so officials spoiled the ballot, gave them a new ballot, they cast it. And Tarrant County Elections said: "Tarrant County Elections has no reason to believe votes are being switched by the voting system."

Again, there are going to be instances where a voter goes to the polls, they hit the wrong button. They may see a different result than what they did. And election officials are really wary. They don't want to blame voters. They want to be there to help voters solve the issue, whatever it may be. But they're just again, no evidence anywhere in the country that machines are flipping the votes -- Sara.

[08:20:10]

SIDNER: Could be user error, but boy, there are so much misinformation. I'm seeing it on a daily basis and we know, Sara Murray, that it is going to ramp up as we go into these last few days before the election. Thank you so much for clearing all that up. Appreciate it -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Importantly, a serious warning, you're talking about -- they also corrected the error once they saw it. So, that was all corrected and on with our day.

Coming up for us, new charges have now been filed in the alleged assassination attempt against an Iranian American activist and journalists. Now, the Justice Department says the plot went to the highest levels of the Iranian government.

And one of the most popular menu items at McDonald's linked to a deadly E. coli outbreak now. The quarter pounder being pulled from menus and nearly a dozen affected states.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: For the first time, a top Iranian government official has now been named in the alleged plot to kill an Iranian-American activist.

Federal prosecutors in the United States now charging the senior official in the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps with participating in the failed plot to assassinate a human rights activist and journalist, Masih Alinejad.

[08:25:10]

This attempt happened back in July of 2022. The Justice Department now has released a superseding indictment just yesterday about all of this.

CNN's Zach Cohen joins me now as more details on exactly what's happening here. What more are you learning about the charges and the man now being named?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Kate, significant that prosecutors are now accusing an Iranian government official for the first time by name of participating in this alleged plot, this murder-for-hire plot targeting a journalist in New York.

And, look, prosecutors are taking issue in pointing out the severity of these charges, saying that it shows Iran, the reach and the extent and of Iran's plot to try to assassinate people who speak out against the regime even those on US soil.

And this official, this Iranian official who is named in these newly unsealed charging documents, his name Ruhollah Bazghandi.

He is described as a brigadier general in the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. He's described as a former -- leader of a counterintelligence unit for the IRGC as well. He was sanctioned back in 2023 by the Treasury Department for allegedly participating in similar murder-for-hire plots targeting other dissidents and others who spoke out against Iran as well.

So, this is somebody who is well-known to US officials, to prosecutors, and now is being called out by name in this case related to Masih Alinejad, that Iranian journalist who is based in New York and prosecutors say that this plot was actually disrupted as one of the suspects was on their way to murder Alinejad in New York. That's just kind of gives you a sense of how close prosecutors described this of actually being successful being carried out.

The others involved and charged in this case includes some Eastern European individuals who prosecutors say were part of a crime syndicate. These were the individuals who the Iranian officials directed to carry out the alleged plot.

So, it remains to be seen what goes to the process here, but a significant moment as in a big picture sense, the FBI and US intelligence agencies have been warning Iran is becoming increasingly aggressive in trying to carry out plots like this, not just targeting journalists, but also government officials and others on US soil who have been very strong in their opposition to the Iranian regime.

BOLDUAN: Yes, the details coming out. It's pretty crazy. Thank you so much, Zach, thanks for laying it out for us -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, the Trump campaign pushing back on the bombshell interview from Trump's former chief of staff calling him a fascist who praised Hitler.

And, Independent voters, what role are they going to play in this election? We've got new polls out this morning, which give a hint.

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