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Polls on Independent Voters; Gov. Chris Sununu (R-NH) is Interviewed about the Presidential Race; Blinken Meeting with Saudi Leaders; Ashwin Ramaswami is Interviewed about his Georgia Race. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 23, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:32:20]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, this morning in an election this close, any group of voters could be decisive, but this group of voters in every election is worth watching. I'm talking about independents. And with a declaration of independence, CNN's senior data reporter, Harry Enten, is here.

What do we know about the independents right now?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I will never declare my independence from you, my dear friend.

BERMAN: Yes.

ENTEN: All right, what do we know about independents, right? Center of the electorate. You go last time around, Joe Biden won these voters by 11 points. You look at September of 2024, a month ago, Kamala Harris was up five points among independents. You look now though, look at this, she's only up by two points among a key bloc, center of the electorate, down nine points from where Biden was at the end of the 2020 campaign.

Of course, this is a national picture. This is a national picture. What is going on in those key battleground states, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, the Great Lakes. That blue wall, right? Joe Biden, last time around, won him by five points over Donald Trump. Look at where we are today. This is the type of movement Donald Trump likes to see in the center of the electorate, up by a point.

Now, of course, that's well within any margin of error, right? But again, it's the movement. It's the trends, Mr. Berman, that we're looking at. And when you flip a group from going plus five Biden to now plus one Trump, that's the type of movement Donald Trump loves the see. And it's the type of movement that I think gives Democrats some ageta (ph).

BERMAN: You saw it nationally. You see it in the blue wall states there. What do we know about candidates who have won or lost independents in the past? ENTEN: Yes, our independents determinative of who wins the election.

Usually the way independents go, so goes the nation. So, candidates who won independents in elections since 1952, look at this, won independents, won the election, 15, lost the election, despite winning independents, just three. So, it is possible to lose independents and win the election. But the bottom line is, that's only happened three times. It was Nixon in '68, it was Ford in '76 and it was Kerry in 2004. Normally when you win independents, John, it's a very good sign for your chances to win the election.

BERMAN: Do we have any sense among the people who are identifying is independents now what they're saying or how they're feeling or why we're seeing this?

ENTEN: Yes, why are we seeing this movement in the electorate perhaps away from the Democrats towards Donald Trump. And this is true overall. This is true among independents as well. View is too liberal, right? Are you out of the mainstream perhaps? Thirty-eight percent said that of Joe Biden back in 2020. Now that number is up to 48 percent for Kamala Harris versus the 40 percent or so who see Trump as too conservative. The bottom line is, Harris may be a little bit too out of the mainstream, at least compared to Donald Trump when we're talking ideologically speaking.

[08:35:05]

BERMAN: Look at the trends. They are pointing in a direction when it comes to independents now.

Harry Enten, thank you very much.

ENTEN: Thank you, my friend.

BERMAN: Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, back to some of the top news from overnight. The new comments and the new warning from Donald Trump's former and longest serving chief of staff, Marine General John Kelly. Kelly speaking on the record in a series of interviews just out saying that Trump fits the definition of fascist and also confirming Trump's affinity for Hitler and Hitlers generals according to John Kelly. I want to play for you what Kelly told "The New York Times" overnight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KELLY, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: Admires people who are dictators. He has said that. So, he certainly falls into the - into the general definition of a fascist, for sure.

He commented more than once that, you know, that Hitler did some good thigs too. And, of course, if you know history - again, I think he's lacking in that, but if you know what Hitler was al about, it would be -you'd be pretty hard to make an argument that he did anything good.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: John Kelly also spoke with "The Atlantic." Kelly says that he once asked Donald Trump - then President Trump about his statement that he needed generals like Hitler had. "Surely you can't mean Hitler's generals," Kelly asked him. Trump responded that that is exactly what he meant. "Yeah, yeah, Hitler's generals."

Joining us right now is Republican governor of New Hampshire, Governor Chris Sununu.

It's good to see you, Governor. Thanks for being here.

Hearing that --

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: You bet.

BOLDUAN: -- does that change how you feel about Donald Trump and your plans to vote for him?

SUNUNU: No. Look, I respect General Kelly. I think he's great. He's got a long-term relationship with the president.

You know, when you get into these final weeks, it's all about -- it's all about results. So, of course, you're going to get salacious things said and all that, and I'm not taking away the general's conversation with the former president.

But at the end of the day, you just -- what that poll that your team was just looking at, independents want results. They don't want that kind of ultra -- ultra liberal extremism. They want to be told the truth. They want to get their cost of living down.

That's where voters are going to go. So it's not just a Chris Sununu thing or a General Kelly thing. If you're talking to the American voters out there, they just need a cultural change coming out of Washington.

So, look, we've heard a lot of extreme things about Donald Trump from Donald Trump, it's kind of par for the course. It's really unfortunately, with a guy like that is kind of baked into the vote at this point.

So those last swing voters are just going to kind of push towards what's going to get -- get a little ease on my -- on my family, a little ease on the cost of living.

BOLDUAN: I hear your political an -- your astute political analysis on the kind of the state of play because as we have seen, I was talking about with David Chalian earlier, history has shown in Donald Trump's political career that there are -- that things are baked in. The extreme -- that things that he says do not move the needle one way or the other in a broad sense, maybe when it comes to a narrow few voters which this election could come down to, but that's something different.

But in saying that you are going -- and I know you have -- you've talked about -- you've talked about it to me, said you're going to support the ticket and that's what matters to you.

In supporting the ticket and saying that, that is saying that you're going to support someone who Marine General John Kelly says fits the definition of fascist, for sure, he says. He says that -- John Kelly says that Trump, quote, certainly prefers the dictator approach to government.

In supporting the ticket, that is something that you're supporting.

SUNUNU: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: Is that something you are okay with?

SUNUNU: No, look, I don't think anybody should be okay with statements like that, of course. And if there's ever anyone you don't want any sort of comparison to, it's Hitler, and all of that sort of thing.

As we've discussed before, I think what -- it's not just what Chris Sununu is going to be voting for. I think most of America is going to go this way. I do think Trump wins this thing in the end and it's about that change.

People are willing to say, look, I don't like his style, I don't like his approach. I don't like the things he says, but if we can get a Republican mindset out of Washington that says, you come first as an individual, not big governments, states rights matter, regulatory reforms, we're going to cut regulation out, we're going to make things a little easier in terms of costs, we're going to do -- handle the inflation.

I know -- I know the media likes to talk about the salacious stuff, but I'm just trying to say whether it's Chris Sununu or 50 percent plus one vote that are likely going to win this thing for Trump, that's what America care (ph).

I don't know any American that would like any of those comments, right? Now, there's nobody in America that would like to -- likes to hear that conversation about a potential for -- future president of the United States, but that's how bad things are. That's how bad the Harris campaign has run things. That's how bad her message is.

And that's how bad the last three-and-a-half years has been for a lot of Americans. They're willing to say, look, we'll hold our nose, we'll vote for Trump. We need that culture change in administration that puts people in this country first.

BOLDUAN: And I mean, hearing you, you -- you're putting yourself in the same category. You're ready to hold your nose -- hold your nose and vote for Trump as well still.

[08:40:03]

I want to ask you about former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney and her appeal very directly to former Nikki Haley supporters -- supporters that you spoke to and campaigned with over and over again in the primary. I want to play for you what she said when she was campaigning with

Kamala Harris in Michigan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FORMER REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): If people are uncertain, if people are thinking well, you know, I'm a conservative, I don't know that I can support Vice President Harris, I would say, I don't know if anybody is more conservative than I am.

And you can vote your conscience and not ever have to say a word to anybody. And there will be millions of Republicans who do that on November 5th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Governor, what do you think of that appeal from Liz Cheney?

SUNUNU: Well, again, you know, I -- Liz Cheney and Donald Trump have a personal hatred of each other. It's a personality thing.

She made it her mission to go after him. That's her choice to do. I'm not taking anything away from that. So that's a personality thing, more than anything else.

In fact, her words actually say it. She's ultra conservative, but she's going to vote for one of the most liberal presidents in -- potential presidential candidates in history.

Same with John Kelly. I have tons of respect for General Kelly, but let's understand, there's a personal divide between him and the former president.

So I think everyone's understanding, you got to take though those types of comments from those specific individuals with a grain of salt.

I don't get along with the president. You know, he hasn't called me lately anymore and I don't -- again, I wish we had a different candidate. I worked really hard to get Nikki Haley on that ticket.

But at the end of the day, results matter, results have to matter for the American people.

So, with all due respect to Liz Cheney and General Kelly, you know, they've done great service. But if anything, that defines their -- that's a personal conflict, not really based on policy, not based on where this country is going to go and not really based on I think that the culture -- that cultural change that has to come up.

People are tired of woke-ism. They're tired of being told that Biden and Bidenomics work. They're tired of these lies out of Washington that -- and these ads and all this talk that basically says, hey, you're lived experience isn't real, don't worry.

You're having trouble paying the bills? No. No. We told you Bidenomics worked for you.

It's absolutely condescending for the Harris campaign to keep pushing that kind of message. And that's exactly why you're seeing those independents that you guys were just talking about. That's why you're seeing that swing.

It's not just you're too liberal. It's that you've lied to us for three-and-a-half years, you've gaslighted us, tolding us -- telling us that our lived experiences that real.

So again, with all due respect to those two, they clearly have some personality issues with the former president. Don't blame them for that. A lot of people do get in line to take a ticket on that one.

But at the end of the day, I think this is where the election is going to go in the next two weeks.

BOLDUAN: One thing about -- we'll leave it, but one thing about Liz Cheney I will say is that, yes, maybe personal beef as you're laying out for sure. But she also lays out very clearly that it has to do with policy. She does not like the policies that Donald Trump also stands for because she says they're also antithetical to conservative values as well.

But still, I hear -- I see you and I hear your analysis with what you're giving us this morning. Thank you, Governor. Thanks for coming in.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, right now, Secretary of State Antony Blinken is in Saudi Arabia, fresh off his visit to Israel, as he continues to push for a ceasefire in Gaza and the release of the hostages being held by Hamas there.

Earlier, Blinken urged Israel to turn its military wins into a path for peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: It's managed to dismantle Hamas' military capacity. It's destroyed much of its arsenal. It's eliminated its senior leadership, including most recently Yahya Sinwar. This has come at the cost - great cost to Palestinian civilians in Gaza.

Now is the time to turn those successes into an enduring strategic success. And they are really two things left to do, get the hostages home and bring the war to an end with an understanding of what will follow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: CNN's chief global affairs correspondent Matthew Chance is in Jerusalem.

Matthew, can you tell us a bit more about exactly what Blinken's meetings are today?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's now left Israel and he's - he's gone to Saudi Arabia, where he'll be meeting with leaders there to discuss what role the region can play in bringing about those - those objectives of ending the war in Gaza, getting the hostages released, and, you know, working out what the strategy is going to be, what Gaza is going to look like, for instance, once the war is eventually finished.

But, at the moment, there is no clear answer to - to any of those questions, no solutions. I mean, first and foremost, Yahya Sinwar is dead, the Hamas leader. That's true. At the moment, there's no one to necessarily negotiate with because Hamas hasn't appointed a new leader yet. And when that leader is appointed, it's not clear what the negotiation position of that person will be.

[08:45:01]

In addition, Benjamin Netanyahu is very much being, you know, guided by the right-wing partners in his coalition government here in Israel. And they want the war to persist in Gaza. They want it expanded in Lebanon and to bring in Iran as well. There are anticipated military actions being planned by Israel against Iran shortly we understand.

And so, you know, at the same time, you know, this is the 11th visit of Secretary Blinken to the region since the October 7th attacks, and you get the - the sense, watching each of those visits, that the Israeli authorities are increasingly immune to the kind of pressure the U.S. secretary of state and the Biden administration is - is placing on Israel to rein back in its military objectives and to push further its supply of aid into areas of Gaza where there's a humanitarian crisis. And so it is difficult.

All of this, of course, against the backdrop of that bitter election campaign in the United States. And Netanyahu very much sort of pushing forward his own agenda here.

SIDNER: Matthew Chance, thank you so much. A pleasure to see you there and great reporting. Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: An Ohio school resource officer is now on administrative leave after surveillance video shows him repeating punching a student in the head. We've got more on that.

And a 25-year-old candidate for state senate in Georgia is hoping to unseat one of the fake electors who was indicted alongside Donald Trump. He is our guest.

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[08:51:22]

BERMAN: So, this morning and this year, allergy season really has seemed to arrive earlier and it seems to be sticking around longer than we are used to. As I sniffle, you can get a sense of that.

CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is back with us to answer your questions about battling fall allergies.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

BERMAN: Sanjay, Mandy, and I, want to know, what is the best over the counter option for treating allergies?

GUPTA: Yes, I'll tell you, the allergy season that's here is stronger and longer for sure. so, it's not in your head. I mean this has just been worse for a lot of people.

Histamine is the problem. That's what's causing you to have all the symptoms. So, medications that are anti-histamines are what you want to look for. And there's a lot of them out there. You know, there's lots of choices nowadays. The old generation anti-histamines, they would typically make you sleepy because histamine also keep you awake. So, anti-histamines would make you sleepy. But these new medications are pretty good at being non-drowsy.

A couple things. First of all, symptoms are typically worse first thing in the morning. Actually 4:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m. So, taking these medications the night before probably a good idea. If you have significant symptoms, then using something that also has D in it, decongestant, that can be helpful. But that - that actually has some side effects that can keep you awake, nervousness, sleeplessness. So, don't take those the night before.

But, you know, the other ones you can take sort of throughout the allergy season, John. That's what I'd recommend, try and take those the night before. You get up pretty early. So that can help you, you know, certainly when you're anchoring your show.

BERMAN: You know the night before is practically the morning for me.

GUPTA: I know.

BERMAN: Look, I like to get outside, right?

GUPTA: Yes, I know.

BERMAN: And part of the reason this is all happening is like the yard work, you're mowing the lawn, you're raking the leaves, and it just kicks everything up. It gets in your head.

Kim from Indiana says that when she exercises, she feels stuffy and congested, even with an allergy pills. She wants to know, how could she go outdoors while not suffering for the rest of the day.

GUPTA: Well, again, I just want to say that this has been a particularly bad allergy season. As the weather has gotten warmer, there's not been a first frost. So, once that - once that first frost happens, a lot of these symptoms will get a lot better for people. So some - there's some hope in sight there. But again, a couple of things. One is that if you're taking these medications regularly, not just when you have symptoms, but regularly, that's probably going to be a pretty good bet.

The allergies, when you're outside, the symptoms are going to be sort of worst midday. So, that's probably the worst time of day to sort of be outside.

And finally, John, one thing you may have noticed as a runner, once you start to run, and you're sort of releasing that epinephrine into your body, your symptoms actually start to improve. That actually get -

BERMAN: Yes.

GUPTA: That helps alleviate some of the allergy symptoms. So, the beginning of your exercise is probably going be the worst. But again, it should improve as the exercise goes along.

BERMAN: Yes, once you get going, actually you get pretty clear. And that lasts for like half an hour, an hour after you run, and then it all comes back and plagues you.

GUPTA: Right.

BERMAN: But this is really helpful stuff.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you very much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Is it one of those things, like I feel stuffy the minute we start talking about allergies. It's like - it's like immediately I'm like, I think I need more allergy medicine.

BERMAN: I'm meeking (ph). I'm meeking (ph).

BOLDUAN: OK.

And here we go.

Other news we're tracking this morning, a school resource officer in Akron, Ohio, is on administrative leave after being caught on surveillance video punching a student at least three times in the head. Akron Public Schools released the footage of the incident. According to a police report leading up to the incident, the student ignored several requests to go through a metal detector. Once he finally did, his cell phone triggered an alarm. The officer apparently said he reacted the way he did to, quote, "keep the schools safe." No weapons were found on that student.

This morning, the CDC says one person has died, 49 others are sick after an E Coli outbreak at McDonald's.

[08:55:02] And the CDC says it's all linked to the McDonald's Quarter Pounder. Initial investigations into the outbreak have pinpointed the chopped onions as the likely source of the contamination. McDonald's also said that they've stopped using the onions. McDonald's president says the fast-food giant has pulled Quarter Pounders in nearly a dozen of the affected states, stressing that the majority of its menu items are not impacted.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, thank you, Kate.

A fake elector indicted in Georgia alongside Donald Trump is running for re-election. Georgia State Senator Shawn Still running again. He won his senate seat in 2022 even after information surfaced about his activities.

Our next guest is 25 years old and running for senate against him. Joining us now is Ashwin Ramaswami.

You are running as a Democratic candidate for the Georgia state senate seat that Still now has. How do you plan to unseat an incumbent in your first foray, really, into politics? Going for a senate seat is really difficult.

ASHWIN RAMASWAMI (D), GEORGIA STATE SENATE CANDIDATE: Well, one is never too young to do the right thing. And this is my hometown. And my goal is to fight for the issues that actually matter for the people here. Whether that's gun safety to protect students at schools, whether it's by overturning our abortion ban in Georgia to protect access to reproductive health care. And just showing that contrast between someone like me, who's from the area, who represents the future and the investment we need, versus Shawn Still, who isn't even from Georgia, has been criminally indicted for trying to overturn the election results, has lied to folks about his military service, he's not a veteran and he said he was, and he's also been attacking me and young people like me with racist smears and attacks. And I think it's just very clear to folks that here's a contrast we have, and we need this kind of leadership that's going to take us to the future and not bring us back.

SIDNER: I do - am curious about your - what you did before this. Before you decided to run, you were working for the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, which is an agency that literally works on election security, trying to protect the integrity of our elections. Your opponent, you've mentioned, fake elector, running again. And there are several other states where fake electors, like Michigan, six out of 15 current GOP electors are facing charges in the fake elector scheme.

So, what did you learn, as a person that worked for CISA, what was happening there? What were you seeing that sparked your interest in deciding to run?

RAMASWAMI: So, here's what I saw at CISA. I saw that there were officials, Democratic and Republican across the country who were committed to protecting our right to vote. And I was proud to be a part of that and really work to ensure that our vote was counted.

But what happened after 2020 was, we saw the pattern of Trump's lies. In fact, Trump fired the director of CISA, Chris Krebs, for correctly saying that the election was free and fair. And I soon realized that the biggest threat to our democracy is not just foreign hackers hacking into our election, it's domestic politicians like Donald Trump, Shawn Still and his allies. And so that's exactly when I decided that I needed to come back home and run for office so that I can actually make the difference and ensure those kinds of folks are in office because for every minute Shawn Still spends in a courtroom, that's a minute he can't focus on things that matter to us, whether its protecting students in schools, access to reproductive health care, and is protecting our right to vote.

SIDNER: I want to ask you about - because you are of the gen z generation, we have just heard - this just happened. President Obama was on a podcast this morning. And here's what he said about young voters and going to the polls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: You're going to let a bunch of old people decide your future. You wouldn't do that about your music. You wouldn't do that about your clothes. But you're going to let them decide what your future, your potential careers, what the environment's going to look like? You're going to let them decide that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: He said that on "The Young Man and the Three" podcasts.

Will this message resonate with young voters or rile them up?

RAMASWAMI: This message will definitely resonate. And I think this trend we're seeing of gen z candidates like me are further accepting this idea that young people do see that we can make a difference in politics, but it requires all of us to be aware, and we have to go out and votes.

So, my message to young people is to make sure that go out and vote, early vote if you can, tell all your friends to vote. If you want to get involved with my campaign, you can go to ashwinforgeorgia.com. You can volunteer.

[09:00:00]

You can support. Ensure that we have young representation in office, because that's how we make the difference for the future.

SIDNER: Ashwin Ramaswami, it's just.