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Trump's Former Chief Of Staff Says He Fits Definition Of A Fascist; Harris To Answer Questions At Town Hall; Weinstein Faces Court Hearing As Retrial Over Sex Crimes Nears; Trump Holds Roundtable With Latino Leaders. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired October 23, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

ASHWIN RAMASWAMI (D) GEORGIA STATE SENATE CANDIDATE: You can support ensure that we have young representation in office, because that's how we make the difference for the future.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Ashwin Ramaswami, it's just wonderful to see someone who is young, who is Gen Z, who is looking at politics really seriously, and certainly going to encourage people to vote. Thank you so much. Appreciate your time this morning, The new hour of CNN News Central starts right now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: On the record, Trump's former and longest serving White House Chief of Staff, John Kelly, warning that his former boss fits the definition of a fascist. A retired Marine General also confirming Trump told him he wants his generals to be like Hitler's generals.

Kamala Harris is about to face tough questions from undecided voters a CNN town hall event tonight, just as we've learned, more than 20 million people have already voted.

LeBron James making history once again, along with his son, the first father and son duo to play together ever in the NBA.

I'm Kate Bolduan with John Berman and Sara Sidner. This is CNN News Central.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right happening now, Kamala Harris preparing for a CNN town hall tonight, as new explosive comments come to light about Donald Trump from his longest serving Chief of Staff.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JOHN KELLY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF FOR TRUMP: Certainly the former president is in the far right area, he's certainly an authoritarian admires people who are dictators -- he has said that. So he certainly falls into the general definition of fascist, for sure.

(END AUDIO CLIP) BERMAN: Again, that was his longest serving Chief of Staff, retired General John Kelly, who also told the New York Times overnight that Trump praised Hitler.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

KELLY: He commented more than once that, you now, that Hitler did some good things too. And of course, if you know history, again, I think he's lacking in that, but if you know what Hitler was all about, it would be pretty hard to make an argument that he did anything good.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. With us now is CNN anchor and chief national security analyst Jim Sciutto, also author of the terrific book "The Return of Great Powers."

I bring it up, Jim, because if the words ring familiar that John Kelly just said there is because you actually reported that he said pretty much exactly those same things. What's different this time was actually hearing him say it out loud. But still, this has been reported for some time. What was your major takeaway from all of this?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Listen, you have the words bear repeating, right? Because here we are in the year 2024 we know the history of World War II. We know the history of Adolf Hitler starting World War II and perpetrating the Holocaust, right?

Let me just quote John Kelly's first hand description of Donald Trump, the current GOP nominee for president, his description of Adolf Hitler. He said, well, but Hitler did some good things. I said, well, what? And he said, well, Hitler rebuilt the economy. But what did he do with the rebuilt economy? He turned it against his own people and against the world. And I said, Sir, you can never say anything good about the guy. Nothing. Kelly recounted. I mean, Mussolini was a great guy in comparison.

Kelly went on to say it's pretty hard to believe he missed the Holocaust, though, and pretty hard to understand how he missed the 400,000 American GIs that were killed in the European Theater. Kelly told me, but I think it's more again, the tough guy thing.

I mean, I bring that up. I book came out in March, did a lot of stories around this in March, seven months ago, into the presidential campaign, widely reported around the world, from Times of Israel to here in the US. And yet, for some reason, it didn't move the Republican Party. It didn't move -- it doesn't seem to have moved a large portion of American voters. And it's remarkable, right?

And again, John Kelly, he's a 40-year Marine. I know that the Trump campaign has said he's making it up. He's a gold star father. He served his country for more than four decades. He rose from enlisted man to the highest rank in the military. He has zero incentive to make something like this up. So listen, it's John Kelly, the 40-year Marine's words from a

firsthand account against Donald Trump, who we know has lied before repeatedly.

BERMAN: So the question, a question, I should say here is, why does Kelly feel it is so important to bring this to life, first with you, and then out loud to the New York Times? And what should or what does he hope to instruct in voters to voters as they're going to make their decisions?

[09:05:04]

SCIUTTO: You know, it's interesting, because I've been speaking to Kelly for years, really, and I've asked him before about, you know, when we did this interview, though, on the record and so on, I asked him if he was going to go on television, for instance, or write an op- ed or something along those lines. And in general, his view has been in this, he's not unique in this view, for a long serving military uniform, military man to say, it's not my role to be overtly political, right? But we have seen him involved over time in that, you know, that they were sort of background quotes than they were quotes on the record. And now you have his voice right, the audio of his voice saying these things.

And I think that he and by the way, he's not alone. We've heard from Mark Milley, who's telling -- told me quite similar things as we get closer to this election. And they see the real possibility that a man that they served, right, they served under Trump for years, might be president again.

And it is their view, as expressed, that he would be a danger. And it's -- I imagine, as you get closer to election, that's razor thin and where one outcome is that Trump could be president again, that they see that as something that they have to be public about, about their view and their experience of his decision making, and why they think that's dangerous.

BERMAN: Jim Sciutto, you have done terrific reporting. You are doing terrific reporting. We know you will do more ahead. Thank you so much for being with us this morning. Appreciate.

SCIUTTO: Thanks.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Let's go now to Pennsylvania, where tonight, Kamala Harris will be facing undecided voters right here on CNN for a town hall event. Eva McKend is in Aston, Pennsylvania, where the town hall will be held from outside, from inside to outside on what looks like a beautiful day. Eva, good morning.

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Kate. I can tell you the Vice President's closing argument is really coming into focus here. She's expected to lean into her personal biography to connect on a human level with the undecided and persuadable voters that will be asking questions of her tonight at CNN town hall.

We also hear her talking about her policy vision for America, which she characterizes as the opportunity economy, and then warning against the threat, in her view, a second Trump presidency would portend for America. She was asked by NBC what the campaign would do if the former president prematurely declared victory. Here is how she responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last election, the former president came out on election night and declared victory before all the votes were counted. What is your plan if he does that again in two weeks?

KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, let me say this, we've got two weeks to go, and I'm very much grounded in the present in terms of the task at hand, and we will deal with election night and the days after as they come, and we have the resources and the expertise and the focus on that as well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So my team is ready to go. Is that what you're saying? Are you thinking about that as a possibility?

HARRIS: Of course.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: And Kate, the campaign knows well that it is not sufficient for the Vice President to just be talking about Trump. That is why we also hearing her make an affirmative case and talking about why she actually wants to be president, and so also the space that we're watching is former President Barack Obama, stumping hard for her out on the campaign trail. He appeared with Eminem last night, doing a little rapping in Detroit, and then he heads to Georgia, leveraging that celebrity power again, with Bruce Springsteen and Tyler Perry. Kate.

BOLDUAN: Great to see Eva. Thank you so much. Sara.

SIDNER: All right, thank you, Kate. Joining us now, former Trump 2020 Director of Strategic Communications, Marc Lotter, also joining us, Natasha Alford, She's the senior vice president of TheGrio and author of "American Negra." Thank you both for joining us.

I have to play this again because it is so stark. It is so stunning to hear this from not only a member of, you know, Trump's team back in 2020 but John Kelly was his chief of staff, so he spent a lot of time with Donald Trump every day. Let's hear his remarks about his former boss.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

KELLY: Certainly the former president is in the far right-area, he's certainly an authoritarian admires people who are dictators. He has said that. So he certainly falls into the general definition of fascist, for sure.

He commented more than once that, you now, that Hitler did some good things too.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SIDNER: Marc, how do you convince someone that Donald Trump is not dangerous when you hear this from his former Chief of Staff?

[09:10:00]

MARC LOTTER, FORMER TRUMP 2020 DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: Well, that's just one man's opinion, and there have been many people who have pushed back on those accounts. I served on the 16 campaign in the White House and on the 20 campaign, have never heard Donald Trump say anything along those lines.

And then I looked at the fact that more than 200 retired generals and admirals also endorse and support President Trump for his reelection. So you can take one man's perspective, I'll take the other 200 and I think the American people are going to decide.

But ultimately, I don't think it's going to decide by labels and name calling. It's going to come down to who can lower people's gas and grocery prices, secure the border and they know the world was safer when Donald Trump was in the White House compared to the mess we've got going on right now.

SIDNER: Natasha, what do you make of Marc's comments there? This is, again, his chief of staff. This isn't someone he spent short amount of time with and very intimate time.

NATASHA ALFORD, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, THEGRIO: Right. Respectfully, the math for me is a little bit different. I think that when you are an intelligent politician, what you would say to a large group of people versus what you would say to a smaller group of people is different.

There was a calculation here that was made when John Kelly went to work for Donald Trump, right? He's not a never Trumper. He's not like the many people who watch Donald Trump campaign and said that, you know, the too many lines have been crossed. There was a calculation he made, a compromise he made, which he felt that it was worth it to go and to serve at the pleasure of the President.

And so for him to come out now and to say this expresses a real concern, and I think voters need to listen to people who are in the inner circle, right, who have there's no reason to lie. Listen to this and think about not just the public persona you see, not the charming, sort of charismatic personality that Donald Trump may put on when he's trying to get you to vote for him, but think about how he will actually run the country behind closed doors, which does impact all of us.

SIDNER: Natasha, to you, you know John Kelly, you just mentioned this. He waited to say this publicly. He did not do it on camera, but he did let the New York Times record him and write the story, obviously. And I want to sort of speak to this in a little bit different terms. We're also hearing from the head of JP, Morgan, Jamie Dimon. He,

according to this reporting, is too afraid of blowback to say publicly that he is supporting Harris, but that he is going to vote for her. If these powerful men are afraid to speak publicly and openly about who they are going to vote for and why? What does it say about the role of fear in our election?

ALFORD: The fear is a powerful tool. We've seen it on the campaign trail the entire time, right? You will not have a country anymore. Donald Trump says things to incite fear, to incite resentment, to make people think that he is the only one who can save America, when, in truth, democracy is about all of us coming together. There is no savior in this. This is all of us being a part of this project of America.

And so for the business leaders, whether we're talking about Jamie Dimon or just anyone in general, this is about more than the dollar. It's about more than protecting your business interests. We are talking about the ability to be able to do business right, to do the business of democracy going forward, and so this is when you will see those who are being really courageous and putting their personal interests aside and stepping forward in this moment. I think we need more of that.

SIDNER: Marc, sort of in this theme of fear. You know, Trump does use words like lunatic and says America won't be a country if the Democrats stay in office. But Democratic leaders have called Trump an existential threat to democracy or unfit for office.

I am curious what effect you think this might have on polling and whether people are able to be honest about who they're actually going to vote for.

LOTTER: Well, I think we've seen this for a long time. I remember in 2016, you know, talking about the hidden Trump voter, people who are afraid to come out and people who won't put a yard sign in their yard because they fear that their houses will be targeted or that they will face ridicule in their neighborhoods. We have seen the left with cancel culture going on for a very long time.

I think that's still very real, but eventually, I think we're going to have to stop just talking past each other and realize that Americans sometimes disagree, but at the end of the day, we've got to come together as Americans, because we can't continue down this path for both sides for much longer, because it's just taking us to a very dark place.

SIDNER: All right. Marc Lotter, Natasha Alfred, thank you both.

ALFORD: How powerful that message be. If Donald Trump said that, though, if Donald Trump said what you just said, Marc, how powerful would that be but he's not saying that.

SIDNER: All right, we're going to leave it there.

LOTTER: Well, Democrats won't stop calling him Hitler, a threat to democracy. So.

SIDNER: It wasn't a Democrat, in this instance that called him those things.

ALFORD: John Kelly just said.

SIDNER: Right, all right. Thank you both. Appreciate you. John.

[09:15:03]

BERMAN: New this morning, U.S. officials say there is evidence that North Korean troops are in Russia right now, new reporting on why they're there.

Harvey Weinstein about to make his first court appearance since reports of a rare cancer diagnosis. The McDonald's stock plunging this morning amid a deadly E. coli outbreak linked to corner pounders.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Just minutes, Harvey Weinstein is due in court for a pretrial hearing on new sexual assault charges, and this comes into the news that he is now receiving treatment behind bars for cancer.

[09:20:09]

Let's get right to CNN's Jean Casarez outside the courthouse. What do we expect here, Jean?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we expect that there is a hearing. I have been told that the plan was, as of late yesterday that Weinstein would be in that courtroom. The official diagnosis that sources have told CNN is chronic myeloid leukemia or bone cancer.

I can tell you the position of the defense is that it's going to be front and center in this hearing today. And they say, how can you proceed to trial, with hearings, with transportation from Rikers to here, when someone is receiving cancer treatment, they just don't believe that is feasible, doable or fair.

Also know that at this point, the attorneys are not sure they're going to talk to Weinstein when he arrives, but how he is going to want to approach this in the courtroom. Will it be an open court, a discussion on this cancer diagnosis and the treatment that he has been received by the defense or will because of the privacy rights. This is medical be what's done up at sidebar.

We don't know at this point, but here's the issue, they are proceeding to trial. They're proceeding to trial on two different indictments. One is from 2018, it was the conviction that was overturned in April, and that's criminal sexual act in the first degree and third degree rape, very serious accusations.

Now a brand new indictment that just came out about a month ago is criminal sexual act in the first degree. It's from 2006, two of the counts, and one of the counts is from 2013. So another issue is the prosecution wants to consolidate these two indictments because they are similar crimes. You want judicial economy. You want less money the taxpayers are going to have to pay.

But the defense, in a very, very lengthy memo, said to the court that this is what the appellate court this is why they overturned Weinstein's case. When you start to have so many accusers, one after the other, that this cloak of innocent until proven guilty dissolves and before the jury ever gets the case, the defendant is guilty. So these need to be two separate trial. So those really should be, John, the basis of what we hear in court in just a few minutes.

BERMAN: We have a lot to learn over the course of the morning, Jean Casarez there. Thank you so much. Kate.

BOLDUAN: New warnings from Donald Trump's former and longest running Chief of Staff, the retired Marine General, saying and retelling the conversation he had with Trump about the generals who worked for Hitler and why he says Trump fits the definition of a fascist.

And new public service campaign out now using celebrities and celebrity imposters warning how easily AI can be weaponized to confuse American voters and impact the election.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:27:28]

SIDNER: As the campaign enters its final two weeks, former President Donald Trump courted Latino voters at a roundtable in Florida yesterday where he made a slew of claims about his opponent, Vice President Kamala Harris and her policies. CNN's senior reporter Daniel Dale is joining us with just the facts.

First, let's take a listen to this claim from Trump last night about immigrants with homicide convictions. He claimed all of them came to the U.S. under the Biden administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: So the Border Patrol, because they've had it. They've never done this before. They released a list of criminals in our country, and they really are tremendously good. If you let them do the job like I let them do the job. We have 13,099 exactly, 13 that -- during their term, they tried to sell. This is over 40 years now. This is during their three and a half here that they've been there. 13,099 murders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Daniel, what do the facts say?

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: Former President Trump has been making this claim since September. It's been debunked by me and others since September, but he keeps saying it. So we'll do it again. He keeps saying that this list of so called non-detained immigrants with homicide convictions includes only people who enter the country under Biden and Harris. In fact, it does not.

This list is of people who enter the country over the course of decades under numerous administrations, including the Trump administration. The list grew under Trump. Now he said here that, you know, they try to say it's over 40 years. Who is they? Well, the Department of Homeland Security issued a statement after Trump and others misinterpreted this data, and they said, quote, the data in this letter is being misinterpreted. The data goes back decades. It includes individuals who enter the country over the past 40 years or more. Went on to say it also includes many who are under the jurisdiction or currently incarcerated by federal, state or local law enforcement partners, and I think that's a key too.

Trump also keeps saying that these people are all roaming free in the United States. Well, DHS and independent experts I've spoken to have made clear the list includes thousands of people who are currently in state and federal prison serving those homicide sentences. Why are the others still in the country? Well, many of them likely have deportation orders, but are from countries that simply don't accept deportations from the United States, so under a 2001 Supreme Court decision, the immigration authorities have no choice but to release them after the completion of their criminal sentences.

SIDNER: Trump also made a claim about the Congo, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They are allowing thousands of murderers and drug dealers and terrorists and people --