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John Kelly Says Trump Fits "Fascist" Definition; Harris Arrives In PA Ahead Of CNN Town Hall; Blinken Meets With Saudi Prince As U.S. Tries To Bring End To War; Just Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 23, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:45]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Undecided and persuadable Vice President Harris face to face with a crucial group of voters at tonight's CNN town hall in Pennsylvania, one of the most critical states of this election. As former President Trump heads to battleground Georgia, we are following the campaigns.

Plus, he had one of the most powerful positions in the Trump White House. Now, retired Marine General John Kelly has an ominous warning for America. He says Trump fits the definition of a fascist and describes the former President's praise for Hitler.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And a CNN exclusive, an investigation into predatory campaign fundraising tactics targeting the elderly, including people suffering from dementia. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

KEILAR: Today, Vice President Harris working to shore up undecideds as former President Trump tries to turn out his base in Georgia. Any moment, we are expecting to see Vice President Harris touching down in Philadelphia ahead of her big CNN town hall where she's hoping to win over the support of persuadable voters.

SANCHEZ: Now, this is happening as former President Trump is heading to battleground Georgia for two campaign events. Soon., he's going to take part in a town hall and then hold a rally for his supporters this evening. Let's go to CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny in Aston, Pennsylvania, the site of CNN's town hall with Harris. Jeff, what can you tell us about tonight's event and the format?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDEN: Well, Boris and Brianna, there are going to be undecided and persuadable voters who are here on hand in Delaware County, just one of the critical suburban areas outside of Philadelphia, asking questions of Vice President Kamala Harris. Of course, these are representative of many voters who still have questions in this race.

Even as you know, millions and millions vote across the country, more than 1 million Pennsylvania voters have already cast early ballots. There are still a sliver of undecided or movable voters. So those voters will be on hand here, at least a smattering of them asking questions of the Vice President. And the Harris campaign believes this is an opportunity for her to explain her policy positions but also give some voters who perhaps are not yet sold on her candidacy a bit more to hang onto.

But we do know that she also will, as she spoke earlier this afternoon outside her residence in Washington, D.C., outside the Naval Observatory, really pushing back at the former President, questioning his fitness for office. Some of his comments he reportedly made about his generals, look for her to continue that conversation. She's really been using the former President's own words to bolster her argument.

So on the campaign trail, that has been something she's been doing as she's been traveling to Blue Wall states. Pennsylvania, of course, is the mother of all battlegrounds, 19 electoral votes here. It is virtually politically impossible to imagine either of the candidates winning that magic number of 270 electoral votes without Pennsylvania.

And the rest, of course, of the Blue Wall states of Michigan and Wisconsin, the Harris campaign believes is their best path to the White House. Of course, Donald Trump, as you said, is campaigning in Georgia today. But he, too, has been in Pennsylvania so many times. But here in the Delaware County, she's trying to -- it's a blue-ish county. She's trying to run up the score, if you will, because she knows the rest of the state is challenging for her to say the least.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. Jeff, you also have new details about how Harris plans to deliver her closing arguments. What have you learned about that?

ZELENY: Look, we are learning that the Vice President is expected to give a speech next Tuesday, one week before Election Day on the National Mall to make her case to America and be surrounded by thousands of supporters in Washington, D.C. But she's going to break away, were told, of the sort of loop around battleground state. Shell be campaigning, of course, every day next week.

But giving that big closing argument speech likely later, perhaps in primetime or in the evening to make that case for why she believes that she is the sort of the change agent here. But, Boris, that is a central question as we've been traveling around talking to voters who are still not quite sure who could bring change to the White House.

[14:10:02]

Donald Trump, of course, argues it's him. But The Vice President is trying to make the case that he is unfit for a second term. That is the, you know, certainly, the stakes here. But with 13 days, even as millions vote every single day, there are still undecided voters and those voters could turn this race, Boris and Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Jeff Zeleny live for us in Pennsylvania. Thank you. And in the meantime, Trump is on his way to campaign in Georgia, which comes after Trump's former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, who is a retired four-star Marine Corps General, confirmed an explosive report by the Atlantic that cites two sources claiming Trump said during a private White House conversation that he needed, quote, "the kind of generals that Hitler had."

SANCHEZ: The Atlantic also reports that when confronted with the bill for army specialist Vanessa Guillen's funeral, Trump said, quote, "it doesn't cost $60,000 to bury an effing Mexican." Specialist Guillen's family has disputed the Atlantic's reporting. They say that Mr. Trump treated them with respect. Here's Vice President Harris responding to these reports.

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KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All of this is further evidence for the American people of who Donald Trump really is. This is a window into who Donald Trump really is from the people who know him best. We know what Donald Trump wants. He wants unchecked power. The question in 13 days will be, what do the American people want?

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SANCHEZ: Let's take you down live to Georgia where Trump is campaigning today with CNN's Alayna Treene. Alayna, Trump's campaign is dismissing all of these reports.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: That's right, they are. We've heard from a number of top Trump campaign advisers, as well as others who had worked in Trump's former White House. That includes Mark Meadows and Kash Patel, really pushing back hard on what Kelly has said.

I also did -- just in response to Harris's comments there that you played, I did just receive a statement from Trump campaign adviser Steven Cheung criticizing Harris over this. I'm going to read you some of that. He said, quote, "Kamala Harris is a stone-cold loser who is increasingly desperate because she is flailing, and her campaign is in shambles. That is why she continues to peddle outright lies and falsehoods that are easily disproven."

It goes on to claim that Harris's rhetoric was in part to blame and Democrat's rhetoric is in part to blame for some of the assassination attempts on the former President's life. And these are claims we have heard before. But all to say, they are pushing back very heavily on this and arguing in my conversations with them that they believe some of the former officials who have been criticizing Donald Trump, including John Kelly, it's because they are no longer in Trump's favor, and that they don't have the right intent in doing this.

So, you know, that's what their argument is. But I do want to just talk about and put kind of the context of Kelly's remark or put Kelly's remarks into context because I do think that is important. You noted, he was a former Marine general. I will note his son also served and died while serving in combat. And just having covered John Kelly in the past when I was covering the first -- the Trump White House back in, you know, in 2016 to 2020, that John Kelly is someone who really cares about the way that power works, the division of power within the U.S.

I found it very notable listening to some of those recordings that they gave to, that he gave to the New York Times when he said that he once had a conversation with Donald Trump where he had to say, "I don't serve you, I serve the Constitution." Now, I do think it's also important to note, you know, some of what Donald Trump himself has said in relation to this because we did hear from Kelly and several other former White House officials who served with Trump, that includes John Bolton, Mark Milley, Jim Mattis, Bill Barr, all of them sounding the alarm on Donald Trump and what it would mean if he was elected once again.

But I want to point to what Trump has said himself. He has, in the past, made very clear that he wants to massively expand the power beneath the executive branch if he is in office. He's talked about using the military to round up migrants in the United States to deport them. He also often praises authoritarian leaders. He talks about Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin being tough guys. And we heard him actually use some of that rhetoric last night when he was campaigning in North Carolina. Take a listen to what he said.

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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's a fierce individual. The press, the fake news, hates when I say that he's a brilliant man. He runs 1.4 billion people with an iron fist. He's a fierce man. I got along with him very well. Putin, these are people that are tough people. Kim Jong Un, North Korea, nuclear weapons all over the place. I said, you ever do anything else, go to a game, do something. You know, he loves producing nuclear weapons. That's what he likes producing. And he's got a lot of them.

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TREENE: Now, Boris and Brianna, I think just, you know, those are comments Donald Trump has made repeatedly in the past about some of these different leaders.

[14:10:04]

But they are put into new light with some of these Kelly comments and especially, you know, now that these comments are coming just two weeks, not even before Election Day. Boris, Brianna?

SANCHEZ: Yeah, no mention there of the genocide that Xi Jinping is conducting against the Uyghurs, Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine, or the various human rights violations carried out by Kim Jong un in North Korea notable, as you said, given the timing before the election. Alayna Treene, thank you so much.

We're joined now by former Trump White House communications Director Anthony Scaramucci. He's now campaigning for Kamala Harris. Thanks so much for being with us, Anthony. I do want to get your reaction to these reports from General John Kelly. I do hate to bring this up, but I think we have to point out to our viewers, John Kelly is the person who actually dismissed you from the White House. Do you believe what he's saying? ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATION DIRECTOR:

You could have said fired, Boris. I think people know I got fired. I mean, he --

KEILAR: For being nice.

SANCHEZ: Diplomat (ph).

SCARAMUCCI: You know, he fired me at 9:00 -- and just in case your viewers or listeners are having a bad day out there, he fired me at 09:32 a.m. on the 31 July 2017. So if you're having a bad day, it couldn't have been as bad as that day unless it was a health reason. But General Kelly and I are close friends. Karen and my wife Deidre are close friends. And I have a personal relationship with him. And I would tell you that he has said this privately for many years. He's been very, very concerned.

I think he stayed in the White House 18 months, longest serving Chief of Staff, because he was so worried about the different things that Donald Trump was doing. One of the things that he didn't add in that interview was a lot of times, he had to push the President back from doing things that were illegal or against the constitution or even against the institution of the presidency.

So I applaud him for being out there. He sent me a text last night that he will not be doing the View. So I'll just give you some news flash there. He's not going to be doing the View, but I think he wants to get his words out there on record so that people know. But the real question you have to ask people is what's up with the support of Donald Trump if you've got people, 40 people in the White House, myself included, telling you how dangerous the person is.

Let's say we worked at a pharmaceutical company and we told you that the pill you were about to give one of your family members was going to kill them, would you still give the pill? There's something in the body politic today that we have to get our arms around. I think there are people that like this strongman sort of thing. And I'm just here to message people that Churchill ultimately was right that democracy is a terrible form of government until you consider all the other forms of government.

And what we know about strong leaders is it leads to lots of corruption, kleptocracy, and ultimately violence. And so I'm asking people to please reconsider their vote for Donald Trump. We know that his economic plan is not as good as the Vice President's. We know that he doesn't believe in our rules-based society. He doesn't like our allies. And if you like the continuity of America and all the things that have made us peaceful and prosperous over the years, I hope people will reconsider what they're doing and vote for the Vice President.

KEILAR: I also want to ask you about -- the claim about -- that pertains to Vanessa Guillen, who was, of course, the army specialist who was brutally killed at Fort Hood, now Fort Cavazos. And it says that when confronted with the bill for Guillen's funeral, which Trump had offered to pay, Trump said, quote, "it doesn't cost $60,000 to bury an effing Mexican." I do want to point out that it was the family's lawyer, the attorney, who told the Atlantic that they did send the bill to the White House and never receive money from Trump directly. That lawyer then did go on, as did a family member, to dispute the Atlantic's reporting. But you have worked closely with Trump. Does this sound like something that he would say to you?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, you know, listen, we know he said it, and it is consistent with things that he says. And he also said the asshole nations comment, I'm not going to use the word on your air. And we know he does this sort of thing and we know he has this sort of, like, anger-based, hungry-based reaction to things. But I just want to point out that the, you know, it's a tough spot for the family and it's a tough spot for the lawyers.

You know, Trump is menacing. He talks about non-white immigrants to the United States the way the National Socialists talked about the Jews in the 1930s. That should be disqualifying enough for most people. But this is a Mexican family. They don't want to be in the crosshairs of Donald Trump. They weren't in the room when he said it. And they certainly don't want to be around confirming stuff like that.

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But they told you the tell that once again, a bill that was promised to be paid by Donald Trump was not paid. You know, I've said to the Harris team, you should get 50 to 100 subcontractors over the multiple decades of Trump's life as a real estate developer. Get him in the room and have them tell you how he walked away from them. And he left so many of them in the lurch with money spent on his behalf that was never paid. The final bills were never paid by him. So all of this is consistent with his behavior.

So, you know, somebody has going to have to explain this. Now, you know, eight years ago, I was supporting him. A lot of people said to me that I was wrong to do that. They were right, I was wrong. We now have eight years of additional data, four of which, when he was in the White House, 40 plus of the people that work with him inside the White House, in the cabinet, literally begging their fellow Americans not to vote for him. And we've had four years of him campaigning on a lie. He says that he won the last election. He disavowed the American system and the American democracy. And we're sitting here again, and the polls are closer than I would like them to be. But the Vice President is going to win. And when she does win, I hope we can put the age of Trumpism behind us.

SANCHEZ: Anthony Scaramucci, appreciate the analysis. Thanks for joining us.

SCARAMUCCI: Good to be here. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Ahead this hour on CNN News Central, Georgia fact checks Donald Trump on one of his oft repeated election falsehoods, what the state's head of elections says he found when he combed through the voter rolls before Election Day.

Plus, a CNN investigation uncovering how elderly Americans, including dementia patients, are being scammed out of millions of dollars by shady political fundraising tactics.

KEILAR: But first, America's top diplomat directly pressing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over the lack of humanitarian aid in Gaza, including an Israeli plan that would isolate and starve Palestinians.

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SANCHEZ: Secretary of State Antony Blinken continues what could be his last diplomatic push to end Israel's war with Hezbollah and Hamas. But on day two of his trip to the region, it's becoming increasingly clear just how difficult that will be.

Israel is only intensifying strikes in Gaza and Lebanon despite us pressure to keep the war from spreading.

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ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Finally, even as we're dealing with Gaza, with the hostages, with the humanitarian situation, it's also been an imperative for us to try to make sure that this conflict doesn't spread. It's also very important that Israel respond in ways that do not create greater escalation and do not risk spreading the conflict with Hezbollah and Lebanon.

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KEILAR: In Gaza, at least 74 people have reportedly died here in the last 24 hours. Hospitals say, they are working with virtually nothing, and ambulances cannot transport patients to the facility because of relentless strikes.

And in Lebanon, Israel has begun launching airstrikes in the City of Tyre after warning people there to evacuate. At least five hospitals in Lebanon are no longer operational and 150 healthcare workers have reportedly been killed. CNN's Matthew Chance is live for us from Jerusalem. CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv.

Jeremy, give us the latest on Secretary Blinken's trip and what he's done so far.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, the secretary of state was meeting today with the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, discussing not only these issues of regional conflict and stability, but also trying to press forward with a long-term solution to the conflict in Gaza. And we know, of course, that the Saudis could play a key role in the day after the war in Gaza, although it's not clear exactly when that will come.

And that was the main focus of the Secretary's meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu yesterday as they sat down for over two and a half hours. And Secretary Blinken pressing him to seize what he described as an important opportunity in the wake of the killing of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar to bring about an end to the war in Gaza and strike a deal that would bring the hostages back. But it's not clear that the Israeli Prime Minister is on the same page.

The closes he came in a statement released by the Prime Minister's office to endorsing that idea, was saying that Sinwar's killing is, quote, "likely to have a positive influence," not exactly a ringing endorsement that he plans to get right back to the negotiating table. But there certainly was also another focus. And that was on the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, which has been worsening in recent weeks as the Israeli military presses a major military offensive in northern Gaza. U.S. officials making clear that much more progress needs to be seen following that letter they sent last week, calling on Israeli officials to make major changes to humanitarian aid getting into Gaza in the next 30 days.

And the Secretary also pressed Netanyahu on this so called general's plan, which calls for effectively mass displacement of the civilian population in northern Gaza and then laying siege, starving out anybody who remains in that area, which looks quite similar to what we have been seeing actually in northern Gaza.

[14:25:08]

We're told by a senior U.S. official that Netanyahu denied that that was the plan that they were implementing, urged -- and Blinken then urged Netanyahu and his aides to say so publicly. We should note, though, that they have yet to do so. Brianna, Boris?

SANCHEZ: To that point, Matthew, Secretary Blinken said that a major goal was to increase the humanitarian aid that was flowing through Gaza. Tell us about that.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I'll happily do that. We're having some technical difficulties here. The lights just went out in the second before you came to me. But yet, look, I mean, whatever us secretary of state had to say to the Israeli government in terms of easing the pressure off the civilian population inside Gaza, it doesn't appear to have had much impact because the humanitarian situation that Jeremy was just talking about is still absolutely dire. It's a catastrophe, according to the United Nation's representatives on the ground. And the military pressure is still continuing as well with the Israeli defense forces, Israeli military pounding areas of northern Gaza, specifically the Jabalia refugee camp. It's a densely populated area that Israel has already, you know, said it's cleared of Hamas two times in the past.

But now, the military says that they're seeing signs of Hamas reappearing there, trying to reestablish itself, which is why they're going back in. And they're hitting residential buildings, they're hitting schools, at least two schools we're hit today. They're not serving as schools. These buildings are serving as shelters for the displaced civilian population. And some, you know, appalling scenes that we've seen come to us on video from Gaza over the course of the past 24 hours.

One scene of a young girl being dragged from the rubble by rescue workers in a pause of the Israeli military campaign, bombing campaign inside Gaza. There was lots of other video as well, which we just can't broadcast because it's bodies strewn across the streets. The whole area drenched in blood, that the ground beneath them drenched in blood and people screaming. It's absolutely horrific nightmare scenes.

So, you know, that kind of trauma, that kind of, you know, pressure in the -- in Gaza, on the civilian population, is ongoing despite what the U.S. Secretary of State may have said to his Israeli counterparts.

KEILAR: All right, Matthew Chance and Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much. We'll be right back.

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