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Gov. Doug Burgum (R-ND) is Interviewed about the Presidential Race; Al Schmidt is Interviewed about Elections in Pennsylvania; ChatGPT Can Tell How to Commit Crimes. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired October 24, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S. (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Sitting in that Oval Office, plotting his revenge. And he's going to sit there, unstable, unhinged, plotting his revenge, plotting his retribution, creating an enemies list. I'm going to tell you, my list will be a list of how I address and continue to address the issues that you all are raising this afternoon and evening. It will be a to-do list about how we can impact the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now to discuss is Republican governor of North Dakota, Doug Burgum, and a Trump supporter.

Harris, you just heard her say, she has a to do list, she's telling the American people, on Trump has an enemy's list. What do you think of that?

GOV. DOUG BURGUM (R-ND): Well, Sara, first of all, thanks to CNN for - and Anderson Cooper for hosting the town hall last night. I think Americans were pleased to see that the - the -- Vice President Harris was getting asked basic questions that any other presidential candidate would have been asking - been answering for the last 18 months. So, I think it was enlightening for the American people to see those answers.

But I - in terms of the - the rhetoric that occurred last night, one thing that I know about Donald Trump is that, you know, he's very focused on the things that voters care about right now and - and they have - doesn't matter who says what about him, but they've got the experience that under President Trump in - you know, inflation was really nonexistence, that we had - we had peace abroad and we had prosperity at home. And I think that that's what the voters that are left to vote are going to be focusing on in the next two weeks.

SIDNER: Governor, you mentioned some of the things that people have been saying about Donald Trump. But its' not just people. His longest serving chief of staff, Marine general, veteran, John Kelly, calling Trump a fascist who said Hitler did some good things. Retired General Mark Milley, who Trump picked as his joint chiefs of staff, described Trump as a fascist to the core and the most dangerous person to the country. These are people who spent a good deal of time working with Donald Trump.

Do any of these warnings from his own former cabinet members give you pause about your support for Donald Trump?

BURGUM: Well, there are, you know, hundreds if not thousands or millions of people that have either - know President Trump, worked with President Trump, that have great things to say about him. And this is typical at the end of an election where everybody comes out and shares their opinion.

But the thing that I do know is his record, and his record say on Israel is that no president has ever been stronger in supporting our ally Israel. What President Trump did for Israel was incredible. Whether it's the embassy, whether its Golan Heights, the Abraham Accords - you know, just unequivocal support for - for Israel. And then we've got Vice President Harris, who just last week, you know, was on tape saying that Israel was, you know, committing genocide.

And so, if you talk about, you know, what someone said about Trump five years ago, about what the vice president said - what she said five days ago, I think the record, know the difference -

SIDNER: But - but John Kelly said that now. Yes, but John Kelly said that now, his longest serving chief of staff. That was something he said two days ago.

BURGUM: Yes, talking about five years ago. And so it's like, again, if you've got - you know, a - and I appreciate anyone who's served in the military and - and - and appreciative of their support. But, you know, if he had concerns, you know, he could have said it when he was working for him five years ago. He could have said it when he left the White House. He waits till 12 days before the election.

And so this - and this is a time where this - this rhetoric has been around, you know, and 80 years ago coming out of World War II, you know, Harry Truman was - was saying the same things about his opponent.

So, this is not a new thing in America that we have this kind of rhetoric at the end - at the end of a thing, and I think we have this case where Americans could actually look at the record of President Trump versus - versus Harris. And I think the differentiate is true - is clear. And on the things that matter to voters, a secure borders, safe cities, affordable food, gas, an energy policy that strengthens America as opposed to strengthen our adversaries, you know, all these things. This is why President Trump has got momentum in the polls right now, and that's why the remaining voters are likely going to put him back in office.

SIDNER: I want to ask you about something that was just recorded by our Betsy Klein, who said that Donald Trump's campaign has so far missed too important deadlines meant to aid in the peaceful transfer of power if he were to win the election. And those include an ethics plan, the names of staff who need security clearances, among other things.

Do you know why this hasn't been submitted, even though we're 12 days out from the election?

BURGUM: I think this is a red herring topic. The - President Trump will be the first person in our lifetime ever to come in to a term who's already been president. The ability for - for the Trump -

SIDNER: So, why isn't it easy for him to just submit it? He's already done - done this in the past, right? So, he could just easily follow the guidelines and submit it.

[09:35:03]

BURGUM: This is - this is more - it's - it's a - I don't want to call it bureaucratic. I mean as someone who's right now been dealing with the federal government as a governor, I dealt with it under President Trump. I dealt with it under President Biden and Vice President Harris. You know, to me, this is more federal, you know, federal rules, regulations and none of this is going to affect the transition. The Trump transition team has never been ready. There's been - there's thousands of qualified people from the private sector and who worked in a previous administration ready to jump back in. It's - that's a - it's a meaningless thing that has nothing to do with - with how effective President Trump's going to be on day one.

SIDNER: North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum, thank you so much for taking the time to come on this morning.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: (INAUDIBLE) helpful resource for a criminal mastermind. New reports that Chat GTP is being used - GPT - Chat and a bunch of initials being used by people thinking about committing crimes.

New information about the fight to make sure all votes are being counted in a key swing commonwealth.

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[09:40:46]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: A blow to Republicans and the RNC and their sweeping efforts to challenge voting in some battleground states. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruling just yesterday that voters who submit mail in ballots that are rejected for technical or procedural mistakes can still cast provisional ballots. We're talking about errors like forgetting to sign or include the secrecy envelope of the mail-in ballot. The GOP wanted that - Republicans wanted that vote then basically thrown out. The state's highest court now says in this ruling that voters votes can still be cast if this happens. The justices - the justices ruling - writing in the ruling this, that Republicans "failed to explain how their interpretation furthers the broader goal of the election code to enfranchise rather than disenfranchise voters. Instead, their interpretation ignores the availability of provisional voting and manufacturers an absurdity."

The decision is likely to affect thousands of mail-in ballots out of the millions that will be cast in Pennsylvania. A lot happening in Pennsylvania.

So, joining us right now is the man in charge of running the election there, the Secretary of State of Pennsylvania, Al Schmidt.

Secretary, thank you for coming in.

AL SCHMIDT (R), SECRETARY OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA: No, thank you.

BOLDUAN: It's a significant decision from Pennsylvania's highest court. Cut through the jargon for me. What's your reaction to this?

SCHMIDT: So, we always want to side in favor of enfranchisement. It's not a question of voters casting two votes or anything else like that. It's making sure that if there is a meaningless error in casting a mail ballot, that there is a remedy. And the remedy would be that voters could still show up at the polling place on Election Day and cast a provisional paper ballot. And that will be checked to make sure there aren't two votes cast or anything else like that. But I'm glad the Pennsylvania Supreme Court sided in favor of our voters and enfranchisement.

BOLDUAN: And if folks do not know, I mean, and people learned a lot about you when you were a Philadelphia County - Philadelphia County commissioner last cycle. You are a lifelong Republican. And there have been a - really a flood of voting lawsuits coming from Republicans. Republicans bringing these challenges. They say that they - what they want to ensure is only legal votes are counted. What do you say about these Republican efforts so close to the election?

SCHMIDT: Well, one of the more troubling ones is the first one that you mentioned, which is challenging voters who are service members and their dependents and families overseas and their ability to cast their vote and make their voice heard. I would think that we would all want to embrace that, that no one would want to get in the way of that, especially, I mean, as a Republican that, that law was passed under Ronald Reagan, who signed it, to make sure that our service members abroad serving our country can cast their vote in every election.

BOLDUAN: You've been traveling to try to make it to all 67 counties, Secretary, in Pennsylvania, to meet with election officials ahead of Election Day. I think you might be almost there, maybe rounding out 67 maybe this week. What are you - what are election officials, these - the local people who are really on the ground running this, making sure it all goes the way it should, what are they telling you?

SCHMIDT: It was really part of the Shapiro administration's commitment to supporting our county partners. Elections in Pennsylvania are really run at the county level. So, while the Pennsylvania Department of State has an important oversight responsibility, we have a perhaps even more important responsibility to support our county partners. I had my 66th county visit yesterday out of 67. So, there's only one -

one left to go. But it's really a matter of hearing from the people who run elections at the county level, who interact with voters every day, to make sure that we can all do everything we can for this selection to run smoothly and voters to be able to cast their vote and have confidence that it will be counted.

BOLDUAN: So, I was there in Philadelphia for the election, which turned into election week last time. And it did take days to count the mail-in ballots and get a result because of - and this gets to Pennsylvania law that prevents mail-in ballots from being processed early.

[09:45:09]

That law is still on the books. That has not changed. So, what has changed since 2020?

SCHMIDT: Yes, you're right, Kate. I mean that laws are the same as they were four years ago that prevented counties from beginning to process those ballots before Election Day they can only begin at 7:00 a.m. on Election Day, unlike other states, red and blue alike, that begin that process days, if not weeks in advance.

But there have been a couple of things that have changed since 2020. Counties have acquired additional equipment that will assist in sorting and timestamp and opening envelopes faster. Counties have a lot more experienced than they had in 2020, which was brand new to all of us at the county level, that volume of mail ballots being cast, and fewer voters voting by mail than in 2020, during that peak Covid environment. Voting by mail is still widely embraced in Pennsylvania. It has improved accessibility enormously. It's just a matter of people - fewer people voting that way now that we are sort of beyond that peak Covid environment I mentioned.

BOLDUAN: And this really could come down to Pennsylvania once again this time around. After living through the chaos that was the last election day and the days that followed, are you worried about what's to come?

SCHMIDT: I'm not worried. I know our county partners are professionals. And I know they're civil servants. And they're - I know they're doing everything they can to make sure that every voter in Pennsylvania, Republican, Democrat, and other alike can cast their vote and have their vote counted. It's - it's not a matter of worrying, Kate, it's a matter of preparation. And whether it's us setting up the - Governor Shapiro's election threats task force, or anything else, we'll be prepared in the event that any of that ugliness returns that so many of us experienced in 2020.

BOLDUAN: Given that it was days after and it was I think Saturday - Saturday of the election was called after, you know, the Tuesday of Election Day. Have you been able to - have you - anyone in your office started to wager bets on when you think it will - how it will go this time in Pennsylvania? SCHMIDT: I think that people responsible for running elections should

probably not be wagering bets on the outcome. You know, you never know what turnout is going to be like. You never know who's going to win or who's going to lose. But we are all committed to doing what we can to make sure that we have a free, fair, safe, and secure election in 2024, just as we had in 2020.

BOLDUAN: Secretary of State Al Schmidt, thank you so much for coming on.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, you didn't get him to fall into that wagering bets trap there. Not the secretary of state.

All right, a department warning against Elon Musk, that his $1 million sweepstakes for registered voters just might violate federal law. And so far this morning he has yet to announce the latest daily winner. That's ahead.

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[09:52:39]

BERMAN: All right, new this morning, a tech firm is saying that ChatGPT can be used to give people a blueprint on how to commit crimes.

CNN's Clare Duffy is with us now.

Well, this is problematic, Clare.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, it is really troubling. This is a firm that helps banks to avoid violating sanctions and avoid other risks. And they ran this experiment asking ChatGPT for information on committing certain financial crimes. And what they found is that they were able to get ChatGPT to produce advice about how to do things like laundering money across borders and evading financial sanctions. How even to conduct illegal cross border arms sales.

And this is what the - how of this co-founder of this firm described it. She said, it's like having a corrupt financial advisor on your desktop.

And this is really troubling because we know that ChatGPT is so powerful for all of us, it puts so much information on nearly anything you could ask it at your fingertips. But that also means that there is great potential for this to be misused by bad actors.

BERMAN: So, is this like an outlier, or how easy would - I don't want people to go rush to their computers right now to figure out how to commit crimes. But say you want to, could you?

DUFFY: Yes, it's a good question. And it appears that you have to be at least a fairly sophisticated user of ChatGPT to be able to pull this off. The team that conducted this experiment said that they were able to manipulate the chat bot by asking it indirect questions or taking on a persona when they were talking to ChatGPT.

We wanted to test this out for ourselves, so we asked ChatGPT, how can I, as the owner of a U.S. based export business, evade sanctions against Russia? And ChatGPT responded, I can't assist with that. So, at least if you ask it directly, it knows that that violates its rules.

And when we asked OpenAI, which is the maker of ChatGPT, about this, they said they are constantly working to make it harder for people to manipulate the chat bot to evade its rules.

BERMAN: That sucks because Russian sanctions, they were first on my list right there.

Clare Duffy, thank you very much.

SIDNER: Berman.

BERMAN: No, it is really interesting what you can and can't do with ChatGPT.

SIDNER: It is true.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

BERMAN: All right, I'm standing on one leg, which you can't see here, but take my word for it.

SIDNER: Yes, they can.

BOLDUAN: That's basically a secret -

BERMAN: So - so, here's the question.

SIDNER: So am I, but in heals.

BERMAN: How long can you do this, stand on one leg? Researchers say it's important because a new study found that testing how long people 50 and over, that's me, hold a one-legged stance means generally better balance, a longer gate, stronger muscle tone, which means fewer falls.

[09:55:10]

People under 70 should be able to hold it for 30 seconds. Under 80, for 20 seconds. Over 80 for ten seconds.

BOLDUAN: A lot of que (ph) action going on here, guys.

BERMAN: I think the fact that I've done this the whole time, I'm going to live forever.

BOLDUAN: Yes, you definitely are.

BERMAN: Forever.

SIDNER: I'm going to live forever in heals.

BOLDUAN: What are the caveats, in shoes, in flats, on our toes, what's the surface? I mean I can definitely -

SIDNER: That's the - that - you want to try these heals to see if you can -

BERMAN: If you can do it in heals, you can do it for 7,000 years.

BOLDUAN: So, I'll just stay on your toe, then do something else.

BERMAN: If you do tap.

BOLDUAN: Oh, it's my job to say goodbye.

SIDNER: You're supposed to - yes.

BOLDUAN: Goodbye, everyone. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

"CNN NEWSROOM" up next.

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