Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Polls on the Popular Vote; Rep. Tom Emmer (R-MN) is Interviewed about the Presidential Race; Menendez Brothers Recommended for Resentencing; Mother Files Lawsuit Against AI Company. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 25, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: People who sign his petition in support of the Constitution. But if you look at the fine print on his super PAC's website, only registered voters in swing states are eligible to sign That is the problem, because you cannot, according to federal law, connect the act of registration to cash incentives or prizes. And legal experts, and apparently the folks at the Justice Department as well, immediately drew some concerns, raised some objections.

We reported on Wednesday that the Justice Department had sent that warning letter to the Musk super PAC. Musk's group did not name a winner on Wednesday, and that sort of raised a lot of eyebrows. Maybe they were shutting it down. But late last night they announced two more winners. $1 million to registered voters in Michigan and Wisconsin. So, it looks like they are moving forward with if this program, even though they have been warned by federal law enforcement that it might be illegal.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And, Marshall, there's also new data this morning about Elon Musk's huge spending on this election with this super PAC. What are you learning?

COHEN: Yes, so this money is being doled out by the super PAC, which is funded almost entirely by Elon Musk, the richest man in the world. We learned late last night, thanks to our colleague David Wright, who was checking all the FEC filings, that Elon Musk has plowed an additional $43 million this month into the super PAC, which is called America PAC. $43 million this month. Add that on top of the $75 million that he's already given for a grand total of $118 million that Elon Musk is using to try to get Donald Trump back in the White House. A huge injection of cash from the wealthiest man in the world to try to re-elect Donald Trump.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Marshall Cohen, thank you so much.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, it can't get any closer than this, friends. A new poll shows the country is deadlocked. Half for Harris, half for Trump, just days until the election.

And could the Menendez brothers be free men soon. The L.A. County DA says they should be re-sentenced decades after being locked up for murdering their parents.

Those stories ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:52]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we told you the new "New York Times"-Siena College poll out today shows the race tied, like exactly tied at 48 percent, which raises the possibility that we could see something in this election that we have barely seen in generations.

CNN's Harry Enten here to explain.

What am I speaking of?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: What are you speaking of? Trump may win the popular vote, John.

You know, everyone has been talking about this idea that Trump may win in the Electoral College but Kamala Harris may win the popular vote. But Trump may finally get his great white whale.

Harris versus Trump, national margin. You mentioned that "New York Times" poll, a tie. That's actually right in the middle of the spectrum when we're talking about recent polling data. You don't have to look very far to find Donald Trump ahead nationally. He was up by two points in the CNBC poll, up by three in "The Wall Street Journal" poll. Very close races within the margin of error.

But then the same thing on the other side, right? You have Harris up by three points according to Ipsos. The Say 24/YouGov poll, that's a bunch of academics, also has Harris up by three. But the bottom line is, with the popular vote, which we really haven't focused upon, a very, very tight race, John. The fact is, Donald Trump is very much in a position, he could win the popular vote, which, of course, is something he would absolutely love to do.

BERMAN: And would be something very different than we have seen compared to last time and the polling compared to last time.

ENTEN: Exactly right.

So, I went back through the time machine, all right. I went back through the time machine to see, where were the past two races at this point in the campaign.

Look, Harris in the average poll right now is up by one, well within the margin of error. You go back four years ago, Joe Biden was well ahead of Donald Trump in the national popular vote polls. He was up by nine. Even Hillary Clinton was up by six points. So now Donald Trump's in a position he really hasn't been before at

this point in the campaign where he could truly compete and we can truly say that the popular vote at this point is way too close to call.

Of course, this is only going back eight years. I wanted to jump even further back in my time machine to get an understanding, hey, I haven't heard about a Republican potentially winning the popular vote in a while. And it turns out a Republican winning the popular vote, it hasn't happened since 2004 and George W. Bush defeating John Kerry. And that's only the one time and that it has happened. In fact, you have to go all the way back - all the way back to 1988 to find another one when it was George W. Bush's father, George H.W. Bush, winning the popular vote over Michael Dukakis.

So, the fact that the polls right now are so close, John, the fact that Donald Trump has a legitimate shot of winning the popular vote is something I think a lot of folks, including in my line of work, really didn't think could possibly happen when Donald Trump was running last time around. He could make history, not just for Donald Trump, but for a Republican candidate as well.

BERMAN: You know, there are some reasons for this, and I think Democrats' heads are all exploding out there watching this right now. There are some reasons for this, which you're going to explain, but also begin to raise the possibility that we could see the reverse. We could see the reverse of things we've seen where a Republican wins the popular vote, but there's a chance for the Democrat to win the Electoral College.

ENTEN: Yes. Yes, part of my job is to warn our viewers on either side of the aisle of an event that may occur that they don't necessarily like.

[08:40:01]

And Donald Trump winning the popular vote could absolutely happen. You might as well wrap your mind around that now, folks, if you don't like Donald Trump.

But, on the flip side of that, a potentially good sign for Democrats is, why is Donald Trump doing so well in the popular vote polls. You can dig down into the state level polling and you can see that Donald Trump is doing particularly well in California, Florida, New York, and Texas. Of course, none of these states are really on the board at this point. So, Donald Trump may end up gaining in the national popular vote polls, but actually is wasting votes, which could, in fact, lead to a case where Kamala Harris could sneak by in the Electoral College by sweeping those Great Lake battleground states, which at this point are way too close to call, John.

BERMAN: That's right. It would be interesting to see then if all that talk about Electoral College reform takes on a bit of a new light.

ENTEN: It may. In 2000, remember folks thought that Al Gore would win the Electoral College and lose in the popular vote. It turns out they were all wrong.

BERMAN: All right. There you have it there.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: There you have it.

Joining us right now is Republican congressman from Minnesota, a member of House Republican leadership, also a surrogate for the Trump campaign. Tom Emmer.

Congressman, thanks for coming back in. Appreciate your time.

So, you have, in this national poll, as Harry and John have been talking about, this national poll - the final national poll for "The New York Times," Kamala Harris and Donald Trump are in a dead heat. They are tied.

ABC News has a new poll out this morning of voters. In their survey - inside that survey, their survey found that half of the country sees Donald Trump as a fascist. Here's the quote, Congressman, "49 percent of registered voters in the national surveys say Trump is a fascist defined as a political extremist who seeks to act as a dictator, disregards individual rights and threatens or uses force against their opponents."

Forty-nine percent. That is a high number. Does it worry you?

REP. TOM EMMER (R-MN): Kate, great to be with you this morning.

Donald Trump is going to win this election. And he's going to win the election because the closing message has been the message all along. Kamala, you broke it, Donald Trump is going to fix it. Donald Trump has a positive message for the future for Americans on the issues they care about most, the economy, the border, crime, the crises all around the globe. Donald Trump is here to fix those. He's done it before. He's going to do it again. That's why he's going to win in - on November 5th, in 11 days.

BOLDUAN: OK. So, I'm going to - I'm going to decipher you say it - you're saying it does not worry you, to - to my question?

EMMER: Against, what - what Americans carry about - care about, Kate, is the economy.

BOLDUAN: OK.

EMMER: It's been impossible for families to buy groceries, to put gas in their tank. They care about this wide open border and the terrorists and criminals that have been coming across our southern border.

BOLDUAN: And these two issues are absolutely at the top.

EMMER: They care about the conflicts around the world that did not exist under Donald Trump. BOLDUAN: Yes. No, no, my point is - so, these issues are absolutely top of he - top of the list in terms of what you're listing out, tops of the list - topping the list of priorities for voters.

I have heard what I'm deciphered is a similar reaction from other Republicans to the comment - to John Kelly, the latest John Kelly, Mark Milley, coming out to say that Donald Trump, they see, fits the definition of a fascist. The reaction I'm getting from Republicans is that this is baked in with voters. That it's not going to matter to their vote.

Are you personally OK if Donald Trump says that he wants his generals to be like Hitler's generals?

EMMER: Kate, again, here - when you talk about this stuff, you want to talk about anything but what the American people care about.

BOLDUAN: That's not true.

EMMER: The American people care about the economy.

BOLDUAN: That's not true.

EMMER: The American people want to make sure -

BOLDUAN: You - you and I have been together a bunch of times.

EMMER: Yes, they do.

BOLDUAN: No, no, no, no, no. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.

EMMER: They want to make sure that their kids have a better future.

BOLDUAN: Stop, stop, stop.

EMMER: That's absolutely true, Kate.

BOLDUAN: You and I have been together a bunch of times. We talk all the time. We do talk about issues. I -

EMMER: And, by the way, it's also inappropriate for you to suggest that only Republicans are worried about this.

BOLDUAN: What?

EMMER: It's all Americans.

BOLDUAN: I didn't say only Republicans. I said topping the list of voters who absolutely care about these -

EMMER: That's why you're going to find out in 11 days. Donald Trump will be the next president.

BOLDUAN: Ah, we're doing this thing again.

All right, let's do this. The question was, if - let's make a deal. I ask this question. You answer it. You answer the actual question, and we'll move on to another issue. Let's try it this way.

Do you personally - are you personally OK if Donald Trump says that he wants his generals to be like Hitler's generals?

EMMER: Americans do not want to talk about that. They want to talk about the economy. They want to talk about the border. They want to talk about settling the problems all around the world, Kate.

You guys want to talk about anything but that. Donald Trump is talking about the things that matter to the American public. She broke it. He's going to fix it. That's why he's going to get elected on November 5th.

BOLDUAN: One, you know that's not true. And I know you know that's not true because you - you and I - I have covered you for a long time. We talk about all of the issues. You know that. I know that. We just did an entire town hall with Kamala Harris talking about all of these issues. So, we can put that to rest.

Let's talk about Fred Upton. You - he's a man you know well. He's a man that's -

EMMER: Yes, talking about those issues. David Axelrod said her answers at the town hall were a bunch of word salad and non-answers.

[08:45:00]

BOLDUAN: Yes. But that's not the point. You're - stop flipping it.

EMMER: So, I don't know how you could say you covered that.

BOLDUAN: Congressman, stop for a second.

EMMER: The issues that all Kamala Harris talks about is how she dislikes Donald Trump.

BOLDUAN: Just stop for a second. You said, why aren't you guys talking about those issues? I say we are talking about those issues. And then you're criticizing me for not talking about the issues because David Axelrod's analysis that she - she had a word salad on -

EMMER: Because you're not holding the candidates accountable. She is not answering the question.

BOLDUAN: OK.

EMMER: Kate, she's not answering the questions. And you don't hold her accountable.

BOLDUAN: Congressman, pot calling kettle black. You're not answering my questions. You're not answering my questions.

EMMER: That's because what the American people - what the people want to talk about, they want to know what the solution is to double-digit inflation and the high prices. They want to know who's going to secure that southern border. She's left it wide open. They want to know who is going to restore peace around the globe. Donald Trump's done it. They broke it. He's going to fix it. That's why he's going to win in 11 days.

BOLDUAN: Do you agree that you have not been answering my direct questions?

EMMER: I've been answering exactly what the American people are concerned about. It seems that our press wants to talk about anything but what this election is all about.

BOLDUAN: Nah.

EMMER: And, by the way, that's why you're going to wake up on November 6th and find out that it doesn't matter if you're a Republican or a Democrat, you're an American. It hasn't been working. We need to change. And the change is Donald J. Trump. He's going to fix what they've broken.

BOLDUAN: Congressman Tom Emmer, thank you for your time.

SIDNER: That was something.

All right, thank you, Kate.

Happening today, a bombshell twist in a high-profile murder case. The Los Angeles district attorney says he will ask a judge to re-sentenced Erik and Lyle Menendez, potentially opening the way to them being released from prison. The brothers, who are now in their 50s, have been in prison since 1990. They were sentenced to life without parole for killing their parents. Erik and Lyle Menendez say they were driven to murder after years of sexual abuse by their father. Much of the defense evidence about the abuse was excluded at their last trial. But they were found guilty. The L.A. district attorney says the brothers have paid their debt to society and deserve the opportunity to be re- evaluated.

CNN's Jean Casarez is joining us now.

This seemed to happen, this decision, fairly quickly. How would this even work?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this did work quickly. And even - even quicker than we thought. We didn't know that district attorney was going to come out yesterday with this. It was a very fast, fast decision within his office.

And, you know, there was so much PR and also it was - there was a recreation on Netflix that has -

SIDNER: Right.

CASAREZ: Everybody's watching it, right? Kim Kardashian went to the prison with one of the actors. So, how this is going to work is that the district attorney had

focused a lot on new evidence, because he's been on a lot of shows talking about this, new evidence, a letter that Erik Menendez wrote to his cousin. But I did research, and this letter's been around for a while.

SIDNER: Right.

CASAREZ: It is not brand-new evidence that has just been discovered.

SIDNER: Right.

CASAREZ: But also the Menendez, one of the members of the Menudo group had a sworn affidavit that he had been assaulted by their father.

But yesterday he didn't mention any of that new evidence. His focus was rehabilitation to the top crime in California, premeditated murder. I want you to listen, in his own words, and he said, there's a lot of division in our office on this, but this is my decision.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE GASCON, LOS ANGELES DISTRICT ATTORNEY: They have been in prison for nearly 35 years. I believe that they have paid their debt to society. And the system provides a vehicle for their case to be review by a parole board, and then the parole concurs with my assessment, and it will be their decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: So, the district attorney, Gascon, wants a resentencing, and he wants this from a first-degree premeditated murder without the possibility of parole to be resentenced to murder.

Well, this is a double murder.

SIDNER: Right.

CASAREZ: So, it's 50 years to life. But he wants them considered to be youthful offenders.

They were adults when it happened, 18 and 21, and then they could get out at this point and be paroled.

A judge will have to go through it and look at it. They're going to have to assess the whole case.

SIDNER: Right.

CASAREZ: Then it goes to a parole board.

But remember, they found two shotguns. They talked about murdering their parents for a long time. Sexual abuse and assault, which may have happened. We don't know. They say it did. Many people believe it did. It didn't come out until the defense formulated their defense for the trial.

But the - but the reality is, this can help them in getting out because of their age, the trauma they went through, and the length of time that they've been in prison. But then it sets a standard.

SIDNER: Yes, there's a couple of things here that I just wanted to touch on.

[08:50:02]

I heard the DA talking about this, you know, attention that this is getting. Whether it be Netflix or online, people responding and saying that he should (ph) be getting out. He said that that was part of his calculation, which is very unusual for a DA to say that. Usually, they only stick to the facts of the case that were in court. And then what does this mean for those who are poor, who are don't have the kind of attention that the Menendez brothers have gotten for their cases.

CASAREZ: No, I've thought of that. I thought of that, because it changes the standard. Now, this is California. But let's look at Ethan Crumbley in Michigan. All right, Ethan Crumbley was in an abusive household. It was emotional abuse. He was a youthful offender. This could apply to him also. And he premeditated a mass school shooting.

But here's what's interesting. George Gascon is up for reelection in a little over a week. "The Los Angeles Times" is reporting that he is behind by 30 percentage points, 30 percent.

SIDNER: Oh my (ph).

CASAREZ: So, he says this has nothing to do with his reelection. He might want this for his legacy, but he's definitely trying to push this out there before the election for some reason.

SIDNER: All right, Jean Casarez, thank you so much.

CASAREZ: Thank you.

SIDNER: Appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, a mother is filing a lawsuit after she says a lifelike chatbot caused her son to take his own life.

Plus, how do you top Bruce Springsteen, Barack Obama, and Tyler Perry? Well, you bring out the queen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:55:40]

BOLDUAN: Dangerous, addictive and manipulative. That is how a mother is describing an AI chatbot that she says drove her son to suicide. Megan Garcia says that her 14-year-old son, you see right there, was involved in a month's long virtual emotional relationship with a chatbot from a tech company, Character AI. She's now suing the company. And she says that the chatbot sent messages with language that may have encouraged her son to take his own life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGAN GARCIA, FILED LAWSUIT AGAINST AI COMPANY: There is a platform out there that you might not have heard about but you need to know about it because, in my opinion - in my opinion, we are behind the eight ball here. You know, my child's gone. My child's gone.

This is a platform that the designers chose to put out without proper guardrails, safety measures or testing. And it is a product that is designed to keep our kids addicted and to manipulate them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CNN's Clare Duffy is here now with more on this.

This is so sad.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: It's awful.

BOLDUAN: Tell us about - bring us up to speed on the story and tell us about this chatbot and what - how it works.

DUFFY: Yes, Character AI is a little bit different from other chatbots like ChatGPT, because you can talk to a range of different pre-trained chatbots. They're often modeled after celebrities or fictional characters. They also do more than just chatting. They include these conversational cues that are kind of human-like, like, I furrowed my brow, I said this to you. And it sort of creates this fantasy world for users.

And in this lawsuit that this mother has now filed, and in her conversation with me, she said that as her son's school started using this platform, he started to withdraw from his family. He had behavioral issues, school issues. But she thought at the time it was just kind of teenage blues. He was 14. She says it wasn't until after his death that he - she realized the extensive conversations he was having. Some of them were really sexual. And some of them where he's expressing these thoughts of self-harm and suicide. And she said the bot did not respond appropriately.

In his last conversation with the bot, which was moments before he died, I want to bring it up for you on the screen. The bott is asking him to come home to me. And I want to play for you what - how Megan described this conversation to me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGAN GARCIA, FILED LAWSUIT AGAINST AI COMPANY: When I think of how scared my baby must have been, trying to work through this, you know, in those moments, and then being encouraged by something that's not human, but the ability to behave perfectly human, to say, I - come home, I'm here waiting for you. It was hard to listen to that, but it was also very confusing because I didn't quite understand like how a chatbot could respond like a person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DUFFY: And as you hear there, I mean, Megan says that she wished her son had never had access to Character AI at all, but she wished at the very least there was some kind of pop up with resources for a suicide hotline, something rather than, she said, encouraging him.

BOLDUAN: She is suing the company. How is the company responding?

DUFFY: So, a spokesperson told me the company isn't commenting on the pending litigation, but that it's heartbroken over the loss of one of its users. In a statement the company said, "we take the safety of our users very seriously and our trust and safety team has implemented numerous new safety measures over the past six months, including a pop-up directing users to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline that is triggered by terms of self-harm or suicidal ideation."

The company has also rolled out other updates, like letting users know once they've spent an hour on the platform.

But Megan says this is too little too late for her family.

BOLDUAN: I mean, that's so sad. Every - the whole thing.

Clare, thank you for shining a light on it. Really appreciate it.

DUFFY: Thanks.

BOLDUAN: And, as we were just discussing, we always want to note, if you are struggling or know someone who's struggling, in need of help, please call the Suicide and Crisis Hotline at 988.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, on our radar, former Abercrombie and Fitch CEO Michael Jeffries and co-defendant James Jacobson will be arraigned in federal court this afternoon in New York. The indictment against them claims that Jefferies and two others ran a sex trafficking scheme in which they would recruit young men using modeling offers to engage in sex events.

[09:00:03]

Jefferies stepped down as CEO in 2014, having run the company since 1992.