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Campaigns Make Final Push In Wisconsin; Harris Campign Expects Trump Will Declare Victory Before Votes Counted; Harris Officials Project Confidence That Undecided Voters Are Breaking In Their Favor. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 01, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:01:19]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Back to the Rust Belts. The Harris and Trump campaign's descending on battleground Wisconsin for a final push.

Vice President Kamala Harris hoping to avoid a repeat of 2016 when Hillary Clinton lost the state in a stunning defeat. But her campaign is pointing to new reasons for hope with just four days to go before Election Day.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: In the meantime, former President Trump is on defense after escalating violent rhetoric against his opponents, this time suggesting former Congresswoman Liz Cheney should be fired upon.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

SANCHEZ: At any moment, we are expecting to see Vice President Kamala Harris touching down in the key battleground of Wisconsin. She's blitzing across the state today with three campaign events in the final push to Election Day. Former President Donald Trump is holding two rallies today, beginning in Michigan and later in Milwaukee.

KEILAR: But as Trump gets back on the trail, his campaign is attempting to clarify these inflammatory remarks that he made about former Republican Congresswoman and Harris supporter, Liz Cheney. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She's a radical war hawk. Let's put her with a rifle, standing there with nine barrels shooting at her, okay? Let's see how she feels about it, you know, when the guns are trained on her face. You know, they're all war hawks when they're sitting in Washington in a nice building saying, oh, gee, Will, let's send 10,000 troops right into the mouth of the enemy.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: So this is happening while we're getting in some exclusive reporting about how the Harris campaign, quote, fully expects former President Trump to declare victory on Tuesday before the votes are counted. We have CNN's MJ Lee, covering the Harris campaign from West Allis. But let's begin with CNN's Steve Contorno, who is in Michigan.

Steve, how is the Trump team responding to this backlash about his comments about Liz Cheney?

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Brianna, they are defending it. They just put out a statement moments ago, saying that Donald Trump said exactly what he meant. And let me read exactly to you what he said. President Trump is 100% correct that warmongers like Liz Cheney are very quick to start wars and send other Americans to fight them rather than go into combat themselves. This is the continuation of the latest fake media outrage days before the election in a blatant attempt to interfere on behalf of Kamala Harris.

Now, I should point out that this is hardly the first time Trump has appeared to threaten Liz Cheney. He previously retruthed a post on social media that called for military tribunals for Liz Cheney and said that she was guilty of treason. He also posted someone else's social media post saying that she should go to jail along with 14 other Democratic officials.

Now, Cheney, for her part, has also put out a statement on social media responding to Trump's remarks saying, quote, "this is how dictators destroy free nations. The threats -- they threaten those who speak against them with death." Now, Cheney, of course, has become one of Vice President Harris's top surrogates in the campaign as she tries to convince Republicans that they should choose country over party. And that is a key message for Harris in these closing weeks.

Donald Trump, meanwhile, trying to convince his supporters and those undecideds that Cheney and Harris joining forces is a sign that Republicans and Democrats are lining up against you to protect the status quo.

[14:05:10]

And only he can be the person to take them out. He will take the stage in just a couple hours behind me in Michigan. And then he will go on to Wisconsin, trying to make a dent in what we are seeing might be a slight edge for Vice President Harris in these two blue wall states. The latest polling from CNN showing her with a slim lead going into these final days that Trump is going to try to win back.

SANCHEZ: Steve Contorno live for us in Warren, Michigan. Steve, thank you so much.

Let's go now live to CNN's MJ Lee, who's live in West Allis, Wisconsin. MJ, how is the Harris campaign responding to these comments from Trump about Liz Cheney?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've yet to hear directly from the Vice President herself on these comments about Liz Cheney from Donald Trump. But we certainly expect that whenever she does address them to hear a strong condemnation of those comments and really any kind of rhetoric that incites political violence, we did just hear from some senior campaign officials, though, who basically said, look, we think that this kind of rhetoric, this late in the game, can still make a difference with voters, whether it is the comments that you were just talking about that Trump made about Liz Cheney or the kind of rhetoric that we heard from some of the speakers at Donald Trump's recent Madison Square Garden rally, they said it can have sort of the capacity to turn off voters away from Donald Trump.

On this call with reporters just now, something else that the Harris campaign said that they were readying for is the possibility of the former President declaring victory early on Tuesday. This is what one senior campaign official said. They said, this should be no surprise because he lies all the time and he wants to sow doubt about a loss that he anticipates is coming.

Now, we are standing outside here in Milwaukee where later tonight, the Harris campaign is going to be hosting a big rally featuring celebrities like Cardi B, obviously, a part of the last minute, eleventh hour push to mobilize voters as much as possible in this critical state. And I'll tell you, you know, talking to Democrats who are working on trying to elect the Vice President to the White House, it's pretty remarkable how much still we are seeing sort of the ghost of 2016 looming over and haunting this party. This, of course, would be a reference to when Hillary Clinton lost the presidential election to Donald Trump. And in the course of losing, she lost all three of the critical blue wall seats including this state of Wisconsin, a state that she ended up not setting foot in once during the general election. So this is certainly a mistake state that the Democratic Party does not want to repeat with Kamala Harris going for the presidency. And that is why we've seen such a focus from this campaign on this date, really, since day one. Boris and Brianna?

SANCHEZ: MJ Lee, live for us in West Allis, as we are set to hear from Vice President Harris, hopefully in moments from now. We'll, of course, bring you those remarks live.

When you look at the numbers, there are reasons for optimism from both candidates. And Harry Enten is just the person to explain those reasons to us. Harry, when you look at the numbers -- wait, you're not -- well, there it is. The final day of Harry's yellow board. Do we have confirmation on that, Harry?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: No. In fact, I'm getting further and further away from the magic wall. At least I was next to it yesterday. Today, they've stuck me in a flash. Maybe I'm just a little bit too loud in the newsroom, Boris. I don't know what's going on. But the magic of the yellow board is back. And what I can tell you is that I don't know who will win.

And we can look at good signs for both Trump and Harris. Let's start with one of them right now. And it's a good sign for the former President of the United States, I do believe. And that is the right direction wrong track number. All right. Just 28% of the country believes that currently, the United States is on the right track. Look at the average for the -- when the incumbent party is lost, it's 25%, pretty much equal to that 28%. The average when the incumbent party is won, which is obviously the Democrats, is 42%. I've looked back at presidential elections since 1980. There is not a single case of the incumbent party holding onto the White House when so few Americans believe that the country is on the right track. So this is a good sign for Donald Trump.

KEILAR: Okay. So what's the biggest sign that Harris will win, Harry?

ENTEN: Okay, why don't we look at the polling data and we'll say which candidate is better liked, Donald Trump or Kamala Harris? Let's look at the net favorable ratings. Well, if you look at the net favorable ratings for Kamala Harris, you see that she is better liked than Donald Trump, minus 2 versus minus 7. Now, you go back through history and you say, okay, which candidate has won since 1956? 16 times, the more popular candidate has won. The one with the higher favorable ratings like Kamala Harris has, just one time the less popular candidate has won.

[14:10::04]

Now, I will note that one time was Donald Trump back in 2016. But keep in mind, Hillary Clinton was so unpopular on it, far more unpopular than Kamala Harris is right now. So you look at the net favorable ratings, and they suggest that, in fact, Kamala Harris is the most likely candidate to win.

SANCHEZ: Harry, I'm going to ask you the same question that I've asked you now for three days in a row. The same question many of us will likely be asking going, who knows how many days from Election Day. What does the electoral map look like?

ENTEN: Okay. So let's assume that the polls are imperfect and let's say that we have an average miss, but we don't know which direction the average miss will be. Let's say, it's an average polling miss and it benefits Kamala Harris. She wins all the Great Lake states. She wins North Carolina, wins Georgia, wins Nevada, wins Arizona, she gets 319 electoral votes. But let's say, in fact, the polling miss goes in the other direction and the polls underestimate Donald Trump like they did in 2016 and in 2020, well, then all those battleground states, the three Great Lake battleground states, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, the southeast, North Carolina, and Georgia, and in the southwest, Arizona and Nevada, go in his camp. he gets 312 electoral votes.

So the bottom line is, I have no idea who is going to win. But the only thing I do know, guys, is this. And that is, have a great weekend.

KEILAR: Is that like drink? Is that coffee? Is that spaghetti? What is that on the end?

ENTEN: Oh, what is that on the end? Oh, you know what that is?

KEILAR: No, on we have a great --oh, on the -- it's all over.

ENTEN: It's the popcorn.

KEILAR: Steady hands?

ENTEN: It's the popcorn oil.

KEILAR: Oh, popcorn.

ENTEN: That's what it is. Popcorn oil

KEILAR: Oh, Popcorn Friday. It is popcorn Friday.

ENTEN: But it's popcorn Friday. It's popcorn Friday. But have a great weekend. There we go. I got it.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, we can't let those popcorn fingers near the magic board until you dry out those hands.

ENTEN: I got to wash them off. I'll take a little Purell.

SANCHEZ: Harry Enten --

KEILAR: Or water and soap works, too, Harry.

ENTEN: That's what my mother, the former pediatrician, says.

KEILAR: Harry Enten, have a great weekend.

ENTEN: You too .

KEILAR: All right. Let's talk more about this now with Democratic Strategist Chuck Rocha and Kristin Davison, who is a Republican Strategist and partner with Axiom Strategies.

All right. You guys, you hear it there. Harry has got the case. He's looking at the stats for why either candidate could win at this point. I'll ask you both the same question. Where is the momentum and why?

KRISTIN DAVISON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think, you know, if Harry doesn't know then how we're going to know? But we --

KEILAR: How does it feel?

DAVISON: When you look at --

KEILAR: How is it feeling to you?

DAVISON: Both campaigns have a reason to be happy. They both have states to point to. For example, the Trump campaign should point to Arizona and say, this is really coming our way. The Harris campaign should we look at Arizona and say, that's slipping away. I think you could probably look at Michigan and say, okay, the Harris campaign is building some strong momentum there. And kind of that's their bright moment. But then you get to Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, and we've been so

obsessed with Pennsylvania as being the decider. I'm from Pennsylvania. I'm all homegirl about it. But I think we're starting to see that Wisconsin actually might be the Pennsylvania that we've been talking about, as both candidates are there today.

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Look, I've worked on a lot of presidential races, and momentum means more than you think it does at the presidential level. It's something very unique that doesn't happen at the Senate level or the House level.

In the 2020 primaries, Joe Biden won four states on super Tuesday where he didn't have a single staffer because momentum mattered. I was running Bernie Sanders, so I was a little salty about it. Just like Harry's fingers, I was a little salty about it. So it really makes me mad that momentum matters that much. When I had spent a lot of time building organization in states, and then when everything consolidated, there are things that are out of our hands, is what I'm saying.

But when you go right into the end, it's about those last little bit of votes. Most folks who care about an issue, if you're a woman and you care about choice or if you've got Donald Trump posters at your house and you love all MAGA, you've made up your mind. It's those last few undecideds who are going to really make the difference.

SANCHEZ: I have a number of questions that I want to ask you about some of the rhetoric that we've heard recently and how it might sway voters. We're hearing from Trump himself talking about Liz Cheney. J.D. Vance yesterday was on Joe Rogan saying things about normal gays and also talking about women not facing prosecution because of the overturning of Roe vs. Wade. And then you have Joe Biden and the garbage gate, the clarification coming from the White House, and Mark Cuban making these comments about women. I'm more curious about how all of that rhetoric generally might impact voters. What do you think?

ROCHA: It's a lot of noise. And it really doesn't matter at the end of the day. But there are small portions of it in small pieces of the country like Allentown, Pennsylvania, that really do matter because of certain things. When he's talking about the stuff with Liz Cheney, the thing that Harry said is really the biggest thing, is most of the folks in the country don't think the country is going in the right direction. Donald Trump has every advantage there.

The other side of that is, in focus groups that I'm doing in all of these states, folks don't like Donald Trump. Again, if you've got a poster of Donald Trump at your house, I'm not talking to you, I'm talking about regular folks, that's where this thing really comes down to.

[14:15:00]

And the last point on that is that's why I think the Puerto Rican comments hurt so much because in little places like Allentown, it's enough of a difference with a marginal persuadable voter universe that really could come down to that. DAVISON: Well, the most important thing for both campaigns right now, don't take the bait. Harris, you know, yes, there were comments made last night that people could get upset about and parse over. Don't let it take you off message. When you know, Mark Cuban says something insensitive, don't let it -- we're talking today about comments that Trump made last night, instead of the fact that jobs numbers were anemic that came out. We should be talking about the poor economic numbers we just received. But instead, we're going back and forth about comments.

So the best thing that both campaigns can do is close their message strong and not get distracted about these things. These are going to happen. Make no mistakes. Ignore them. The strongest thing you can do is not give your opponent oxygen.

KEILAR:L Well, to that point, Harris officials are saying, and I wonder what you think about this, obviously they have their perspective, but they think that undecided voters by the data that they're looking at are breaking in their favor. And we should note that if you look, you know, observer after observer, Democrat or Republican, if they look at the closing arguments that these candidates are making, they'll say Donald Trump is really making a base play. He's really trying to energize his base and get them out. Harris is still trying to broaden her appeal a little bit. And maybe that goes to the question of which one is working, which strategy may be working. What do you think about them saying the undecideds are breaking for them?

DAVISON: You know, I don't believe there are too many undecideds left right now. We're talking about, are you decided whether you're going to go vote? So if you're undecided right now, you either, you know, are not really tuned in, you have other things going on, it's probably 5%, if that. But you might not care enough to go vote both campaigns. And maybe this is what Harris means, that they're breaking their way. They're giving them a reason to come out and vote. They're giving them a reason to get off the couch, to actually come over when they really were kind of apathetic about the race to begin with. I don't think there's a whole lot of persuasion going on in the last 72 hours. If you're persuading in this final stretch, I mean, that's really tough. It's all about getting your vote out.

And if some of those late deciders now, I don't think that someone today is who they're talking about. I think they're (inaudible) over the last week, we've seen both campaigns have moments of momentum. And if they're seeing those deciders break their way, that's going to make the difference for people, especially since their early vote has been lagging and keep placing foot up in Atlanta.

ROCHA: It's really going to come down to these folks who normally don't vote. Older folks are voting earlier in Pennsylvania. That's a sign. And I think that's where Harris gets some of these numbers of like they want older folks who are regular voters because we do better with regular voters who show up at every election. I've been looking at early vote numbers of who are the ones that are showing up now who aren't normal voters or who normally vote on election day. Donald Trump has really leaned into trying to get his vote to vote earlier by mail. He's never done that before. So it's skewing the numbers.

SANCHEZ: What about the jobs report, Chuck? Kristin mentioned it pretty quick.

ROCHA: Sure. I think that that's something that Donald Trump could be using every single day, but I don't think he can get out of his own way to do it. I think if I was just a strategist telling him, it would just be another indicator to drive home what Harry just said about the way people think about the economy or do you think your life was better back then.

SANCHEZ: We'll have to see. The day is young yet. And there are many opportunities.

ROCHA: Isn't over yet.

KEILAR: It is just beginning, Chuck. It is just starting. Kristin and Chuck, thanks to both of you.

And ahead this hour on CNN News Central, why the factors that would make a Kamala Harris presidency historic could also be the same hurdles that hurt her bid for the White House.

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[14:22:43]

KEILAR: If Vice President Harris wins the White House next week, she'll make history. And not just because she would be the first female president, but also because she would be the first black female president, the first South Asian American female president. And even though her campaign isn't talking about that, voters may be thinking about that as they're making up their minds.

SANCHEZ: And CNN's Chris Wallace spoke about those factors with another Democrat who's made history. And that is Maryland's first black governor, Wes Moore.

Chris, great to have you as always. What did Wes Moore have to say about that?

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR, THE CHRIS WALLACE SHOW: Well, we all know that there's a gender gap that Harris leads among women by roughly 10 points. Trump leads among men by about 10 points. But one of the things that's interesting is that Trump is doing very well, even among black men, which led me to ask this question to Governor Wes Moore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Which do you think is a bigger obstacle to Kamala Harris being the next president of the United States, her race or her gender?

WES MOORE, GOVERNOR OF MARYLAND: I don't think you can separate that because I think, you know, we have a two headed problem in the United States that racism and sexism both still very much exist inside this country. And we know that the bar continues to be higher for her when you're seeing the type of campaign and the type of antics that Donald Trump is running that people seem to not care about.

And so I think you're dealing with the kind of this two headed monster of racism and sexism. And it's a --

WALLACE: But let me just, if I may ask you about that, because Barack Obama came out and somewhat controversially scolded young black men and basically said, I know you're having trouble voting for a woman. He was in effect saying, you're going to vote against a black woman because she's a woman.

MOORE: Yeah. I think that the thing that for a lot of black men, they want to understand and feel that we're being spoken to and not -- and spoken with and not spoken at.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: So I mean, it's interesting. And clearly, Kamala Harris realizes she's got a problem here because she has talked about a whole set of policies that she think would promote black entrepreneurship, black home ownership, and a lot of it is directed directly to black men.

[14:25:09]

So she understands that it's not just a race issue that she's got to deal with. It's also a gender issue.

KEILAR: Yeah. And do they feel understood, which I think is such an interesting part of the conversation that you had with Moore there. I do want to ask you about something that Trump said, which, of course is this Liz Cheney comment as he was making the case that she's basically a warmonger but doesn't fight wars herself, and he suggested that she should be fired upon. There's kind of two questions here. This, you know, how dangerous is this? And how does this affect things politically?

WALLACE: I think it's very dangerous. I can tell you, talking to people in the Republican camp who have come out against Donald Trump, including Liz Cheney, including Cassidy Hutchinson, they get death threats. They feel are very concerned about their security. So no, Trump wasn't saying, go shoot Liz Cheney. But when he raises the idea, hey, well, how would she feel if she had a bunch of guns, quote, trained on her face? I think it's very dangerous. You know, all it takes is one crackpot to see that as somehow a permission slip.

Politically, it obviously doesn't help. It's a dumb stupid statement. And it's only going to turn off more women. You know, between Biden, and Trump, and the comedian, and all of that, I'm beginning to wonder whether this election is going to go to the person who doesn't make the last stupid remark.

SANCHEZ: It's notable that some of the criticism or rather some of the defense of Trump for his statement, the effort to sort of clarify what he was trying to say, is coming from the same folks that criticized President Biden when he talked about Trump being in the bullseye, meaning it -- in a more metaphorical sense than Trump apparently did. Chris, I wonder what you make of the kind of rhetoric that we're hearing in the sense that it's not just more sort of weaponized and militarized, but it's being specifically directed with intent.

In other words, it fits into a pattern of Trump talking about resentments and a desire for revenge.

WALLACE: Well, there's no question. I mean, he's the man who has said, I am your retribution. Clearly, he feels that a lot of his base is angry, is resentful, is alienated, feels that they're being preached to, and have policy made by an elite that advantages other elites, but not them. And he is trying to speak to that resentment.

But again, to go back to this comment about Liz Cheney, you know, you could sit there and say, oh, well, you know, what he's really saying is, you know, she's all for wars, but she can sit back in Washington. But this is the same guy who's talking about the enemy within and talking about the National Guard and even the military conceivably being used. And when people say, oh, okay, it's just violent protesters, he talks about Nancy Pelosi. He talks about Congressman Adam Schiff.

So there does seem to be, I mean, if you believe what the man says, he does seem to be indicating that the use of force against his political enemies. I don't think it's a stretch.

KEILAR:And Chris, what else can we be -- what can we be looking forward to? What else on your show? Who's Chris Wallace talking to next?

WALLACE: Well, that's -- it is him. I will tell you. I asked Wes Moore. First of all, let me say to people who don't out there know Wes Moore, he is a remarkably magnetic political figure. I think he's got wild political skills. If he were a stock, I'd invest in him. And I think whether it's in 28 or 32, he's only 46. We'll be talking about him as a possible presidential contender. But at one point, I asked him, he's a big football fan. And he -- we actually play a video where he get -- takes a pass, a really skillful reception of him from Lamar Jackson, the quarterback of the Baltimore Ravens. I said, honestly, Governor, if you had to choose political career or you could be a good pro football player. And he says, no question, I would have traded all of my politics to play pro football. It's a perfect game and it's not even close. And he said, I've actually begged the coach of the Baltimore Ravens. He, of course, is a Baltimore Ravens fan coming from Maryland. I have begged John Harbaugh, the coach, to let me be a Raven for a day.

SANCHEZ: Wow.

KEILAR: That's funny.

SANCHEZ: That would be something. Chris Wallace, thank you so much. Don't forget to tune in to Who's Talking to Chris Wallace with new episodes streaming on Max. He also, obviously, anchors the Chris Wallace Show with new episodes airing Saturdays at 10 a.m. on CNN and CNN Max. We keep him busy here.

WALLACE: And you can't get enough of the name.

SANCHEZ: It's true. It's true. Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.

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