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Several Key Battlegrounds Back Trump & Down-Ballot Dems; Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA) Discusses Democrat Anger Aimed At Joe Biden & Trump Agenda; Giuliani Appears In Court As Defamed Poll Workers Seek Assets; Policy Experts Warn Trump May Politicize Federal Workforce. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 07, 2024 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: I've looked at some of the data and it seems to me you had some Donald Trump-only voters. That is, they went in the booth or they filled out their mail-in ballot and they just voted for Trump. They didn't vote for other offices or they voted for Trump and they voted for the Democrat. Maybe they recognized the incumbent Democrat's name.

But very clearly, Democrats did better by a couple of points, which was all you really needed to keep some key seats, which gets them to the level where they can actually have an influence in the Senate, rather than being steamrolled.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yes, and it didn't make the difference in some places for sure, but it's really interesting to look at this ticket-splitting in places.

Before Tuesday, it seemed, Larry, a lot of analysts we're saying, it used to be that all politics are local, and now it's that all politics are national. Is it both now?

SABATO: Well, most politics now is national, because we are so partisan and we are so polarized. But that doesn't mean that a candidate can't somehow get a couple of percent from the Independent category not available to his or her presidential candidate.

And that often makes the difference, as it did in these cases that we're citing here. And we could cite many cases, actually, from that election night, where somebody would get elected down the ballot by a healthy margin, whereas the presidential candidate was losing by an unhealthy margin.

That happens. It just doesn't happen as commonly as it once did, where, on an election night, you would often have, you know, half the Senate being elected of the other party from the party of the presidential winner in that state. I think those days, if not gone forever, they're gone for a long time.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: There was some ticket splitting on certain ballot measures, and seven of 10 ballot measures protecting abortion rights passed, including in Arizona, Nevada and Missouri, where Trump either won or is currently ahead.

I wonder what you make of Democrats having invested so much messaging on reproductive rights, and it not having appeared to become a main driver for voters, even though we saw these ballot measures pass.

SABATO: Well, Trump made a decision, maybe off the cuff, or maybe it was something that was planned, that defused part of the abortion question, part of the overturning of Roe v. Wade liability for him.

In which he made it pretty clear, in the language that he was using, that he wouldn't support a national abortion ban. Now, we'll see whether that's true.

And that he still had a part of himself, really, like the time he said on national television at the turn of the century, I am 100 percent pro-choice on abortion.

Well, that obviously changed while he was president. So he eased the way for those voters to say, well, I like him better for president, and I can't really believe he's going to ban abortion generally.

Look at the percentage in some of these states of Republicans who voted for the protections on abortion for their state constitution. And at the very same time voted for Trump.

Now it may seem irrational or contradictory, but, to them, it made perfect sense and they're the voters.

KEILAR: Larry, what are you expecting in the House, and how much will it matter?

SABATO: I think there's very little chance that Democrats will control the House. There's some small, small chance.

But I think Republicans are going to have everything. It would matter a lot to Democrats if they could veto in at least one place. In most cases, in the Senate, they won't be able to.

Although, Republicans don't have 60 reliable votes. And they obviously don't have the White House and they won't have the cabinet officials and much of the bureaucracy, the senior-level civil servants.

But you know what? They're -- we often look at the bad side of these things. If you're a Democrat, you look at the bad side and say it's terrible that Republicans have control of all of this.

But it gives you a big advantage. Since the Republicans are in charge of absolutely everything, they are also responsible for absolutely everything that happens in their two-year or four-year or six-year term.

So Democrats can run with that. They can hold them accountable the way that the Republicans held Democrats accountable for, say, inflation.

KEILAR: Yes, we all remember the backlash of 2010 after Democrats controlled everything. It can be swift and it can be big. Larry Sabato, thank you so much for your insights.

SABATO: Thank you.

So what do Democrats do now? After losing the White House, the Senate, and very possibly failing to re-take the House, the party is facing its own moment of truth and reckoning. Well talk to Congressman Seth Moulton about what Democrats need to do after Trump's decisive win.

[13:34:58]

And before we go to break, take a listen to some of the reaction we're hearing from voters about Trump's win.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am personally OK with the results of the election.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What about you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think there's a lot of tension surrounding the situation. I think, ultimately, I am putting my faith in something higher, you know, and so I'm just kind of trying to separate myself from the decisiveness and all of that that's happening because of this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The blame game is in full swing within the Democratic party. New CNN reporting reveals that the boiling frustration among members of that party over Trump's decisive election victory.

And some of that frustration is squarely aimed at President Biden for his decision to seek a second term.

A senior Harris campaign official tells CNN, quote, "The lack of a competitive process for a replacement, that he didn't allow for that to happen, people are still angry about the shunning that they took for speaking out earlier about him."

KEILAR: One of the first Democratic lawmakers to call for Biden to step aside was Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts. And he is with us now.

[13:39:59]

Congressman, just to remind people, as pressure was mounting on Biden after that debate performance to drop out in July, you were very public. You wrote an op-ed in "The Boston Globe."

I mean, a lot of people were speaking out, but they we're doing it privately. And you said at the D-Day anniversary in France the month before Biden, who you had long known and interacted with and he'd been, you know, a mentor for you in politics, that he didn't seem to recognize you.

So I wonder, as you're reflecting today, who bears the blame here? Is it him, is it the people around him who may have seen those signs long before, say, you, or are others to blame? What do you think?

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): Look, there's a lot of blame to go around. And to be clear, I spoke out loudly and publicly only after I had spoke out in private and really tried to convince the administration quietly that he should step aside.

But look, I'm not going to exonerate myself here. Sitting here this afternoon, do I wish I had spoken up even earlier, even though I was one of the first Democratic lawmakers to speak up publicly? Sure. Yes, I wish I had done so even earlier.

KEILAR: Sir, you -- and I don't mean to put you on too much of a pedestal here, but you have challenged stalwarts in your party about whether they represent your party, effectively. You repeatedly opposed Nancy Pelosi being speaker, for instance.

You ultimately, though, did come around. And I wonder if you regret that and if you see anyone having influence in your party if they don't get in line. Is there room for someone to really ring that bell, effectively?

MOULTON: Look, I mean, Nancy Pelosi was a remarkable leader, the first woman to become speaker, but I thought it was time for a new generation of leadership. And I only agreed to support her after she agreed to step down, a deal that she honored.

I feel like a lot of people believe that Joe Biden was elected, anticipating that he would do one term and then be a bridge to the new generation, just as he said himself, and yet he didn't really honor that.

Now, maybe it was not a firm promise, but I think our party would have been much better off if he had stepped aside.

There's a time and a place for everyone. And when I do town halls back in my district, I often say to the high school kids who show up, you know, if I'm still in office when you're old enough to run, you should consider running against me.

And if we have a fair contest and I'm still doing this and doing it well and I win, that's one thing. But leaders should be challenged. That makes a party stronger. It helps move us forward.

And I think that even if Kamala Harris had been our nominee, but she had gotten there through a competitive primary process, she would have been a much stronger candidate for president.

KEILAR: You have Senator Sanders blaming party leaders for abandoning working-class voters. You also have Congressman Richey Torres blaming the far left for alienating them.

So I wonder what you think is the right message for the party going forward? Who's right here?

MOULTON: Actually, I think both Bernie and Richey are right. I think we do need to reconnect with working-class voters. We haven't done enough for them. We haven't spoken to their concerns.

And by definition, we're out of touch, because they clearly don't support us at the polls. I think Richey is also right, to a certain degree.

I'm grateful for the advocacy and the ideas that the far left brings to our party, but we can't be branded by that. We can't be defined by the far left. We're a much broader party than that.

And if we're going to win more elections, we have got to appeal to voters in the center, these Independents who so often decide these tough contests, and in this case, clearly swung towards Donald Trump.

KEILAR: We just spoke to Larry Sabato, and he said something that there are a lot of political observers saying, which is that it is very possible, very likely, as he thought, that Democrats will not be able to retake the House.

And that then you have a situation where President-Elect Trump is in control of all levers in Washington. What is your biggest concern about that?

MOULTON: My biggest concern is for the fate of our country, when it comes to national security, and for the fate of our democracy, when it just comes to preserving the norms and values that have been so important for our country for over -- almost 250 years.

So, what does that mean? It means that we've got to be very careful about what this next commander-in-chief does. Never before in American history has a president been told by -- or publicly told by so many senior advisers and his most senior military officials that he's unfit to be commander-in-chief.

We heard that from his chief of staff, Marine General John Kelly, and we heard it from many others.

But we also know that on January 5th, even the morning of January 6th, as he was sitting in my office at the capitol complex up at Washington, D.C., I never imagined that a sitting president would incite a riot to try to run -- to try to overturn a peaceful democratic election.

[13:45:02]

So, we have to anticipate the worst, both domestically and internationally. He could well get us involved in wars overseas with his bluster and the way that he, you know, appeals to our adversaries more than our allies.

And he could also significantly erode our democracy here at home, in ways that could last for generations. KEILAR: So with your big concern, one of your big concerns being

national security, I wonder how you're reflecting on a -- perhaps the most important decision that was made when it comes to national security, of the Biden administration.

You sort of infamously, with one of your then-colleagues, a Republican, flew into the Kabul Airport during the botched evacuation of Afghanistan. And that was really a turning point in how Americans -- I mean, if you look at the polls, if you look at how Biden was viewed, that was really a turning point, and he had a difficulty recovering his footing after that.

Do you see that now as a turning point for his presidency and for how Americans viewed him viewed Democrats in their capacity to lead?

MOULTON: I mean, it clearly was. You can look at the past polling. And he never recovered from the reputational hit he took when he made that decision.

And I mean, I think it's funny that you refer to our trip there, the bipartisan trip I did with my colleague from Michigan as infamous. That's a Biden administration talking point.

After I showed up in Kabul to try to understand what was going on and help us make better decisions sitting on the Armed Services Committee and other committees in Congress.

Because we had no idea what was actually happening on the ground. We didn't know, for example, if we should push to extend the deadline and keep Americans on the ground longer.

I was -- Brianna, I couldn't walk into a bar anywhere in America and not have people come up to me from both parties and thank me for what we did.

So, actually, this is a great example of how the Biden administration, this Democratic administration was really out of touch with America, pulling us out of Afghanistan that way. It cost American lives, and ultimately, really impacted our foreign policy.

It was a mistake. And we should be able to admit that. And we, as Democrats, should be willing to fix it. That's what I was willing to do.

KEILAR: Yes, I didn't actually mean for there to be a pejorative use of that adjective. It was just this moment that stood out as kind of a -- I guess it was sort of an unbelievable -- might be a better adjective -- something that happened during that time.

It was really something to see you and Peter Meyer show up there. Hardly could believe that it happened, in fact.

Congressman Seth Moulton, thank you so much for your time.

MOULTON: Great to see you, Brianna. KEILAR: So a big question in Washington and across the country today,

what is the fate of federal workers if Trump looks to put his stamp on the government? We're going to look at what the president-elect has sworn to do. We'll have that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:51:49]

SANCHEZ: Former Trump Attorney Rudy Giuliani just left court after facing questions over whether he's complied with an order to turn over assets to a pair of Georgia election workers, who he defamed after the 2020 election.

KEILAR: The workers, who Giuliani owes nearly $150 million, say they have yet to receive some of the most valuable items that they're owed, like the very car -- this one -- that he was seen riding in just a few days ago.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is live outside of the courthouse in Manhattan.

Katelyn, tell us what happened.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, the wrangling over this order where Giuliani defamed these women and has to give up many of his most valuable possessions, they're still wrangling over it because Giuliani's team says he just isn't getting enough direction to figure out how to give these items over.

And so after a lengthy court hearing today, where, at one point, the judge told Giuliani explicitly, if you don't turn your items over, you will be held in contempt, you could face sanctions from the court.

He got a deadline. That deadline to provide his luxury items, watches, his grandfather's watch, sports memorabilia, like a Joe DiMaggio signed jersey and some other items, the keys to that Mercedes Benz, all of that he has to provide to the lawyers of Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss by next week.

And Giuliani, he is walking there, he's exiting, he's speaking to the cameras right now behind me at the federal courthouse in Manhattan, a courthouse where he once was presiding in the opening as the mayor, today, grumbling in court and being told by the judge, at one point, he was being ridiculous -- Brianna and Boris?

KEILAR: All right. And Katelyn, what are you seeing going on behind you there? So it's kind of difficult to see. I know there's a car in the way. But there's obviously a scrum of reporters who are watching him.

POLANTZ: Yes, these reporters are watching Giuliani, because he hasn't been present physically for these hearings, but he was told by the judge that he had to be here today in court.

And through this hearing, as his lawyer tried to walk back things he has done so far, the judge kept saying, talk to your client, he's right there. Ask Giuliani.

And Giuliani kept whispering things, like other people were being tortured around him, that they were being vindictive.

And so, in this situation, his lawyer was getting answers there as was the judge. And now Giuliani is speaking as he's leaving court.

SANCHEZ: Kaitlan, is that him yelling?

POLANTZ: No, I don't believe so. I believe that's someone else.

SANCHEZ: Well, I just wanted to make sure. I wanted to be sure.

Kaitlan Polantz --

KEILAR: I Wish that van would move.

OK, Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much for report.

The peaceful transfer of power is underway in Washington, but once Donald Trump -- but once, I should say, Donald Trump is inaugurated, some policy experts warn parts of Project 2025 may soon start to reveal themselves.

SANCHEZ: Specifically, that the new administration may politicize the federal workforce by replacing experienced workers with Trump and party loyalists.

[13:55:00]

CNN senior White House producer, Betsy Klein, joins us now.

Betsy, what exactly is Trump promising to do?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: Well, Boris, just to put this in perspective, there are 4,000 political appointees in the federal government who will likely depart at the end of the Biden administration.

But there are over two million career federal workers serving across the country, in non-partisan jobs, from the postal service to Customs and Border Protection.

And we got a preview of how then-President Trump wanted to handle this at the end of his first term, as he signed an executive order known as Schedule "F" in the days before the 2020 election.

Now, that gave him more leeway in hiring and firing federal employees deemed to be disloyal. And Trump repeatedly promised on the campaign trail that he would reinstate this executive order if he's re-elected, vowing to demolish the Deep State.

And Trump has promised to declassify thousands of civil service jobs and politically appointed positions that could be fired at will. He could move as many as 100,000 positions out of Washington and eliminate or dismantle entire departments -- Boris and Brianna? KEILAR: So, Betsy, do we know what the litmus test would be? How would

the Trump administration determine if a federal employee is a Trump loyalist?

KLEIN: Well, it's a great question and it's really unclear what kind of rubric would be used to determine so-called loyalty.

But, you know, there are records for those who have donated to political campaigns or groups in the past. And there's also the question of what's publicly accessible on social media, if those workers have expressed support for another candidate or attended political rallies.

So certainly a lot of anxiety about that within the federal workforce right now.

SANCHEZ: When it comes to the Biden administration, before they leave, is there anything they can do to try to prevent that, to try to protect those workers?

KLEIN: Well, the Biden administration had actually anticipated this and passed a rule earlier this in April that helps safeguard federal employees for political firings.

And while Trump certainly could roll that back, it would take some time through the lengthy federal rule-making process. And our sources in the Biden administration are saying, there's really not much they could do to bolster those protections at this stage.

But this could at the very least buy those workers some time to find a new job. There's certainly a lot of questions for the federal workforce about how Trump will enforce this.

SANCHEZ: Betsy Klein, thanks so much for bringing us that report.

A decision by the Fed on rate cuts is just a few minutes away. Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We'll be right back.

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