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President-Elect Donald Trump Announces His Campaign Manager Susie Wiles as Chief of Staff; Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger Interviewed on Donald Trump's Mandate and Possibility of Donald Trump Retaliating Against Political Adversaries; World Leaders Wait and Watch for Second Trump Presidency; Battle to Make Trumps Cabinet Heats up Inside Mar-a-Lago; Health Officials Raise Concerns Over RFK, Jr.'s Leading Health Efforts Under Trump Presidency. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 08, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

NADA BASHIR, CNN PRODUCER: Distressing rhetoric regarding the war in Gaza. CNN hasn't been able to just yet independently verify these videos, but we know that the authorities have expressed deep concern over the violence that they have seen. The mayor of Amsterdam saying the city is ashamed. These attacks did not show the tolerance of the city. The Dutch prime minister has also spoken with the Israeli counterpart Benjamin Netanyahu, both of whom have expressed concern and described and characterized these attacks as antisemitic. And we know now, of course, that the Israeli authorities are planning to send evacuation planes for those injured in those attacks overnight. Sara?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Nada Bashir, thank you so much for your reporting for us this morning.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: President-elect Donald Trump and his first job announcement. Who will be his gatekeeper this time? And what Susie Wiles asked for before she agreed to take the post.

Questioning vaccines and preparing potentially to eliminate entire departments, what it would really means if Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is allowed to go wild on public health as Donald Trump has promised.

And preventing a tragedy, the staff at a Wisconsin election school are being called heroes for stopping a potential school shooting.

I'm Kate Bolduan with Sara Sidner and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, new reporting on the race for power in the incoming Trump administration. Donald Trump has named Susie Wiles, the president-elect has, as his chief of staff, who will be the first woman ever to serve in that role, a woman some Republicans hope could help bring order to a Trump White House, order that did not really exist the first time around. A source tells CNN, "The clown car can't come into the White House at will. And he," meaning Trump, "agrees with her," that being Susie Wiles.

With us, senior political correspondent at "Puck News" Tara Palmeri. Great to see you.

TARA PALMERI, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "PUCK": Great to see you as well.

BERMAN: So Susie Wiles going in. Who do you think will be next, or what job do you think might be filled next?

PALMERI: Secretary of state will be up there along with the attorney general, and obviously the Treasury Department, the secretary of the Treasury, because these are the top jobs for Donald Trump based on his mandate. Also DHS secretary. Obviously, he wants to conduct one of the largest deportations of all time.

But yes, these are the top jobs. People have been lobbying for them for the past few years, either directly to Trump on TV through fundraising. A lot of people around him are his friends, through think like America First Action. So yes, there's a whole crew of people around Trump. And while there are a ton of loyalists, and I think Trump is placing a bigger premium on loyalists this time around, then maybe central casting or other factors, I do think at the end of the day we might see a few dark horses and they just might be bigger name brands, especially when it comes to the economy. Like if someone like Jamie Diamond or Steve Schwarzman raised their hand, one of these titans of industry on Wall Street, I could see Trump skipping over some people that he has already had around him, like Bob Lighthizer for someone like that just because it would give him a sense of power over the biggest names in the industry. And it would be a signal to Wall Street as well that he is friendly.

BERMAN: In the foreign policy realm, what are some of the names being bandied about?

PALMERI: You have Bob Hagerty. He's a senator. He was the ambassador to Japan, and he spent a long time coming up with papers, traveling on the plane with Donald Trump. He has really gotten to became friends with him throughout the campaign, and that is a really big part of it for Donald Trump. So I could see Bob Hagerty. Senator Marco Rubio is a client of Susie Wiles, or was a client of Susie Wiles. He's from south Florida where Susie is from. He is seen as a neocon, though, and that sort of cancels him out in terms of running for V.P. His name was up there with Doug Burgum, with J.D. Vance, and Susie pushed really hard for him, but I do think there might be some problems with the America first agenda and Marco Rubio and where he stands in a lot of issues. So he might have to not just come up against Susie Wiles but Don Jr.

And I think this idea that Susie is going to completely block the clown show, she wasn't able to do that on the campaign and I don't think she's going to be able to do that in the White House either. Trump likes to have a kitchen cabinet. He has a ton of people around him. All she can try to try to be savvy and maneuver within the environment that she is in. That's how she survived for so you. She is one of the longest standing top staffers around Trump, and it's mainly because she hasn't pushed back that much. She won't be the traditional gatekeeper, like a chief of staff.

BERMAN: She may steer the clown car rather than stop the clown car.

PALMERI: You nailed it, John.

BERMAN: Who else has Donald Trump's ear, or who does have Donald Trump's ear in this selection process? Is Susie Wiles whispering in his ear about choices, maybe the Marco Rubio thing? Is it Don Jr., is it Steve Bannon?

[08:05:00]

PALMERI: OK, Don Jr.'s clout with his father has gone up a lot. Originally back in 2016 Trump dismissed his political acumen. He didn't think much of --

BERMAN: He brought in Jared.

PALMERI: Exactly. But then he showed he really understood the base of the party and then he started to see Don. Jr's popularity rise. He was a very effective surrogate. Then he started seeing polling that showed Don Jr. could be the future of the party and he got a little jealous, but then Don Jr. started to explain to his father how this could be a franchise and we could keep it going, this brand, this MAGA brand, the Trump brand, and brought in J.D. Vance. And for as much criticism as Trump got in the end, he brought them over the line with that group of voters that he was supposed to target, right, those young, first-time, low propensity bro voters.

And so I think this win, J.D., has actually just given Don Jr. some more clout. And we know where Don Jr., and he stands ideologically to the right.

Steve Bannon, I don't think he's going to have a lot of clout. I'm going to be honest with you right now. I know he speaks with Trump from time to time, but I think that voice that said the party is here, the party is here, you need to run with the party, has been replaced by people more like J.D. and Don Jr. who are not as far right as Steve Bannon, but they are not that far away. I just think Steve has lost a lot of credibility with Donald Trump.

BERMAN: Tara Palmeri, very interesting. We will wait and see when we get that next announcement, because once they start coming, generally speaking they come quickly. So we could hear more today. Thanks so much for being with us.

PALMERI: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Sara?

SIDNER: Thank you, John.

Joining us now, CNN senior political commentator and former Republican congressman for Illinois Adam Kinzinger. Thank you so much, Adam, for coming in for us this morning. Let's just quickly talk about Susie Wiles, first woman chief of staff. What's your read? Do you think she is going to be an enabler or bring guardrails, or --

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Let me just say offhand, it sounds like the way she is and all the compliments she comes with, obviously she ran a strong campaign, you would think guardrails, right. And for the sake of the country, I hope so. But let's keep in mind, and enough people aren't talking about this. One of Donald Trump's chief of staff, General Kelly, came in for this exact reason, guardrails. He was exhausted by this, and ultimately, Donald Trump, who may have been said, look, I want guardrails around me, ultimately pushed him away because there were these people, the show that's walking by his office every day, and he always draws it in and gets distracted by the shiny red ball.

So for the sake of the country, yes, I hope she can come in and enact discipline because that is really important for a president. We have seen this movie before, so unless Donald Trump somehow recognized that mistake in the past, I kind of expect the same thing to happen.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you. Look, he has got more power this time between winning the popular vote and winning the Senate and potentially the House. What is that going to mean for a second Trump term? When you look at the numbers, it is still 50 percent of the country went for Harris and are concerned?

KINZINGER: Yes. There is no doubt this was a blowout from a modern kind of political reality from what we have seen. If you go back in history and compare it to other blowouts, it was a close election, in reality if you look at it from a historical perspective. So half of the country is obviously dissatisfied and disappointed.

There is an advantage, frankly, to the Republicans having won everything, which is they actually get an opportunity to show America what their agenda is. They are confident that their agenda is going to be beneficial for America. We'll see. And if it's not, America will see that.

So yes, in the short-term, I do think Donald Trump probably has more power than he came in with in 2016 because he had lost the popular vote in 16. It was seen as kind of an aberration that he won. But he did, by the way, we had a majority in the House and Senate, so we still could do our things. This time, yes, he came in with a stronger mandate, but he is not up for reelection. And usually a president that is not up for reelection in many cases is a little weaker.

Now, what is working in Donald Trump's favor? He has a Congress that will not oppose him. But again, it's kind of like the dog that caught the car. OK, fine, you have a compliant House and Senate now. What is your agenda? And I've asked people, obviously there's deportations and everything else. What is a proactive, positive agenda by Trump, and I don't know what that is. I'm not sure he articulated it.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you as someone who has been really outspoken against Donald Trump and the rhetoric that was used in the lead up to this against people like Liz Cheney and his former chief of staff, and you name the person who has come up against him, Nancy Pelosi and others, are you concerned about retaliation? KINZINGER: Thank you for asking this question, because I do have a

lot of people asking it, and it's great to be able to address it.

[08:10:00]

I am absolutely the opposite of concerned about retaliation. Let's be clear. My opinion hasn't changed. Donald Trump is a scared, weak person. And he won win a big election. Congratulations. Again, I do hope he is successful for the sake of the country. But he himself, because I know him, he is a trembling, scared man. I am the opposite -- obviously, I did nothing illegal, so if you want to manufacture stuff, I am sorry, it is still a democracy. You're not going to have that ability.

Donald Trump's strength comes when he intimidates people with power he doesn't have. I know the power he doesn't have, and I am not intimidated by it. So, no. Thank you for asking me that because I think other people in this are like, is Donald Trump going to target you? You have to understand, and I have to speak out and say, no, we are not intimidated by him. Honest to God, he is the least intimidating person I know. And so no, I am not concerned whatsoever.

SIDNER: Adam Kinzinger, thank you so much for having this conversation with me this morning. I appreciate you.

Kate?

KINZINGER: You bet, yes.

BOLDUAN: Leaders from around the world congratulating President-elect Donald Trump. What his next term means for the conflicts around the world that he is about to inherit.

The economy, it was the top issue for voters this election. That is clear. How much should the Harris loss be blamed on Bidenomics?

And how quick-thinking staff at a Wisconsin election school were able to stop a potential school shooting. A 13-year-old now under arrest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:15:21]

BERMAN: All right, Donald Trump heading back to the White House and world leaders are waiting and watching and has promised to end wars, enact tariffs. What will that mean exactly and when?

With us now, former Defense Secretary Mark Esper, he served in the president-elect's first administration.

Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for being with us.

MARK ESPER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Good morning, John.

BERMAN: The first biggest difference we will see. ESPER: I think Ukraine. President-elect Trump now has promised he would solve Ukraine within 24 hours before he actually takes office in January and there's already rumblings coming out. We heard that Vladimir Putin said he wants to sit down and talk. So, I think that's number one on the agenda.

BERMAN: When you say Ukraine, to what end though? Does it basically mean that Ukraine's effort to beat Russia back are over?

ESPER: Look, we can go by what the president said during the campaign and we should always say the caveat is, who knows how his position will change once he sees intelligence, once he gets advice from the Pentagon and once he builds his team, both the White House and the Cabinet.

But if we go by what he said, he wants to end the war within 24-hours and he thinks there has been too much killing and one of the proposals has been that maybe, it would be some type of rough armistice along the current lines so where Russia has been advancing last several months and Russia would be allowed to keep 20 percent or so of that country and Zelenskyy would agree with some degree of continued US assistance, but that is just one thing floating around.

BERMAN: I get it. So, if the world sees this, sees Ukraine in the conflict there come to a conclusion this way, what would China think about Taiwan?

ESPER: Well, that is my concern, as I have often said particularly at the beginning days of the Ukraine War is how the United States, its European allies, and its Asian allies by the way, reacted to the Russian invasion of Ukraine and autocracy invading a smaller democracy, what does that mean, not just for European security but also for the Taiwan Strait and China and Xi Jinping's ambitions in that part of the world.

So that's my concern is, will that incent if you will China to recalculate how it may move against Taiwan. I mean, it's just dramatic. Here we are and there are 10,000-plus North Korean troops in Russia fighting against Ukraine. We would have never thought we'd seen than three years ago.

BERMAN: No, all right. We've been reporting all morning along about the jockeying to part of this new Trump administration. You were part of the last Trump administration. What do people thinking about joining a Trump administration need to know based on your experience?

ESPER: I have been saying for some time now that the president has learned from his last term in office that he is going to be looking for people, number one, who are loyal to him, to his agenda, and to his plan. Most presidents look for that but, I think, for Donald Trump he puts a high premium on that. So I think that's going to be number one.

And number two, if you are not in that orbit already I think it's going to be hard to break in. It's going to be closely controlled. Reporting is already saying that Donald Trump next week is going to be hand picking himself his Cabinet members and the deputy secretaries in each department because he knows how important the people are to affecting his policy.

BERMAN: Any warnings for people who might be considering joining based on your experience?

ESPER: Look, I think the past is a predicate for the future. There will be expectations of you in those roles. Again, the expectation is you'll be loyal to Trump and his agenda, and I think at this point in time people should go in with eyes wide open.

That said, I hope good people go into the administration. We want President Trump to succeed. We want our country to succeed and that means good people going and there and propping up the institutions and making sure they serve him as best they can consistent with how previous administrations have served presidents.

BERMAN: If the phone rang and he said, hey, want to come back, what would you say?

ESPER: The phone is not going to ring, John. And as much as I have enjoyed serving my country and doing it again, I don't think this is -- this administration is not for me. I have been there once and I will leave it for other people to serve.

BERMAN: Well, but why? When you say that the phone is not going to ring, why?

ESPER: Well, look, I have long said that I am a Reagan Republican and I have a new different view of the world. I'm more of an internationalist. I see that it's important for America to lead in the world to support Ukraine, to support Taiwan, to support Israel and a variety of things.

And I also believe that character matters, that integrity matters and I want to preserve our institutions, particularly the Department of Defense where I think it is very important that we retain the civil military relations where DoD has held up as -- at least one institution left that is widely respected by the American people.

BERMAN: Do you have concerns that that whole civil military divide is in jeopardy?

ESPER: Sure, I mean look, every president pushes it to one degree or another. Trump did in his first term and Biden did a little bit in his, but President Trump has already said there are certain things he wants to do and it involves the military, and I get concerned about that because I think our United States military is very special. It's role within our society, going back to the founding of the country 250 some years ago is unique and we have to preserve that.

We can't lose the trust and the respect of the American people, and if gets politicized or gets used against the American people, that's where the risk start happening.

[08:20:25] BERMAN: What do you think your role is in the next four years. What do you see as your responsibility?

ESPER: Well, my responsibility I think is, again, as a Reagan Republican who's spent my time in the government both on Capitol Hill and the executive branch just to continue to call balls and strikes where I think the administration is doing well, it could do better making mistakes, same thing I've done the last few years with the Biden administration.

I bring a conservative and our GOP tilt to it and look, part of the challenge is here, the Republican space is going back to the first Trump administration. I've been saying thing this for three years.

President Trump delivered on a lot of Republican objectives and principles -- lower taxes, deregulation, conservative Supreme Court, the Abraham Accords -- you can go on and on and on. The problem was too often he went too far and I think that's what we will be all be watching to see will he go too far in any of these domains.

And it's going to be a challenge because now, arguably somewhat that he has a mandate. He is going to have control of the Senate and probably the House. So he's going to have at least two years where he can push his agenda through whatever that may end up being.

BERMAN: Former Secretary Mark Esper I guess not future secretary, at least at this point, Mark Esper, thanks so much for being with us, appreciate it.

ESPER: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, just ahead, with the promise that Robert Kennedy Jr. can "go wild on health care." New concerns this morning on what that might mean here in the United States.

What the biggest concerns are for abortion rights groups now that there will be a second Donald Trump presidency. That's all ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:25:45]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Questioning vaccines and calling for the elimination of entire departments tasked with overseeing public health, that is what Robert Kennedy, Jr. has been doing, not just been saying, not just this election cycle, but also for years and CNN is reporting that he has been seen Mar-a-Lago since Donald Trump's win, milling about the club Wednesday, which is now really the center of the political universe, reinforcing the views and fears of some that Trump really will task him with going wild on public health in the new administration.

Kennedy has no experience in public health. He is an environmental attorney, but that has not stopped him from being the leading proponents of anti-vaccine conspiracy theories for years. What does this mean?

Joining me now is Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. He is also a member of the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee.

Doctor, thank you.

Before I show some of what Kennedy's views on public health, overall, what you think RFK, Jr. having power over public health in this country will mean for this country?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR OF VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER AT CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Well, to be honest, I can't believe we are actually having this conversation. I mean, if you look, know the science and technological advances have allowed us to live 30 years longer than we did a hundred years ago and you have this man, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr,, who is a science denialist, a virulent anti-vaccine advocate, a conspiracy theorist who has a sway over public health, nothing good can come of that.

He denies those advances. He simply declares his own scientific truths. It is a dangerous moment.

BOLDUAN: I mean, he is a known vaccine skeptic and he has been a dominant force in promoting vaccine conspiracy theories and misinformation for year. He said in July, I want to read it: "There is no vaccine that is safe and effective," but then he also told NBC News on Wednesday, "I have never been anti-vaccine," and said this. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR. (I), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Somebody, if vaccines are working for somebody, I am not going to take them away. People ought to have choice and that choice ought to be informed by the best information.

So, I am going to make sure, the scientific safety studies and efficacies are out there and people can make individual assessments about whether or not that product is going to be good for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Doctor, you are the co-inventor of a vaccine recommended for children in the United States and around the world for years and has saved lives. How do you respond to what he is saying?

OFFIT: He said "if vaccines are working for some people," the polio vaccine has virtually eliminated a virus that caused 30,000 cases of paralysis and 15,000 deaths a year. The Haemophiles influenza B vaccine, that bacterial vaccine has virtually eliminated the 20,000 to 25,000 cases of meningitis and bloodstream infections. The diphtheria vaccine has eliminated what was the most common cause of death in teenagers. The pertussis or whooping cough vaccine has virtually eliminated the 8,000 deaths. If vaccines are working? I mean, it just doesn't make a bit of sense. I mean, he is a conspiracy theorist. I mean, you labeled him a vaccine skeptic. He is not a vaccine skeptic, I am a vaccine skeptic.

Everyone who sits around the table at the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee is a skeptic, right? Show us the data, show us the data, prove that it is safe and effective. He is not a skeptic, he is a cynic. He doesn't believe those data. He thinks there is a big conspiracy to hide the truth making him a dangerous man.

BOLDUAN: And that gets -- the other thing that he said right there is he is talking about, he wants to make sure that the scientific safety studies and efficacies are out there.

You understand it better than most the process of these scientific safety studies as part of the FDA Vaccine Advisory Board. There is nothing about the approval process for a vaccine that is cloaked in secrecy.

OFFIT: Not at all. I mean, when we sat down in December of 2020 to discuss the two mRNA vaccines for COVID, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, we, the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee reviewed about 800 pages of data. That was all in the FDA's website. Anybody could look at those data.

So nothing is being hidden.

See, when he says that, when he says, we need to really see the data, he is implying that data are being hidden, that somehow there is some unholy alliance between the pharmaceutical industry and the FDA to hide the truth from the American public, a truth only he will reveal. So he is basically claiming that there is a problem that doesn't really exist.

[08:30:16]