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Justice Barrett Could Be Best Hope For Supreme Court Liberals; Israeli Soccer Fans Hurt In Anti-Semitic Attacks In Amsterdam; Experts: Trump Could Use An Authoritarian Playbook To Go After Media; Harris & Trump Turned To Podcasts To Get Their Message Out; Deliberations Underway In Delphi Double Murder Trial. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired November 08, 2024 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Yes, we'll see how the Biden administration responds given their out of office on January 20th. And as you said, their options are limited.

Kevin Liptak, thank you so much.

So Donald Trump's election victory could potentially give him another chance to shape the Supreme Court, to further potentially stack the conservative majority.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Trump appointed three conservative justices during his first term. But his last pick, Justice Amy Coney Barrett, may offer some hope for the court's liberal minority.

CNN chief Supreme Court analyst, Joan Biskupic, is here with more insight on this.

How is Justice Barrett impacting the bench and creating sort of her own role on it?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN CHIEF SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Sure. There's a lot of talk about the Supreme Court right now with the new administration coming in.

You know, Donald Trump had three appointments in his first term, which is a really big deal. And it's part of the conservative dominance going on for the past 20 appointments, over some 50 years. Fifteen of those have been by Republican presidents and only five by Democratic presidents.

So there's always been this search for the center. And that's what you see going on now. The three Liberals left there, Justices Elena Kagan, Sonia Sotomayor and Ketanji Brown Jackson are desperately looking for anyone at the center.

And so far, Amy Coney Barrett has offered them the best chance. And that's for a couple of different reasons.

One, she's one member of the six-justice conservative supermajority who never served in the top echelons of a Republican administration. You know, John Roberts was in the Reagan administration and H.W. Bush administration. Brett Kavanaugh in the George W. Bush administration. She's even made some gestures towards the center.

But what my story today is about is how much hope they have in her but also how much, despite engaging with the left-wing justices, she sends up more with the justices on the right 90 percent of the time. She's voting with Chief Justice Roberts and voting with Brett Kavanaugh.

But she's only 52 years old. She's the youngest justice on the court. And it's a bit of hope springs eternal. And you never know where someone's going to go.

That why, right now, there's so much attention on Clarence Thomas, who's 76, and Sam Alito who is 74, with people thinking, will they leave now that Donald Trump is in office?

I don't think they're eager to leave but might be enough pressure to go while a like-minded Republican is there in office.

SANCHEZ: And speaking of that, Joan, he may have opportunities to reshape the court even more to his liking than he already has. How could that impact the direction that the court takes for the next generation?

BISKUPIC: You know, everybody's talking about how it could get even more conservative. It is hard to know how much more. Given that they've already reversed half a century of abortion rights when they reversed Roe v. Wade.

They have enhanced gun rights. They've rolled back the authority of federal regulators. There's been so much happening.

But that's -- that's what the six-justice conservative majority. What will make the difference, Boris and Brianna, is that younger conservatives will come in, if, indeed, Donald Trump has an opportunity to fill more seats.

So that means that his legacy would continue for decade upon decade upon decade. I used to say our children will be living with a Donald Trump court. That was back in his first term. Now it's going to be our grandchildren will be living with Donald Trump's court if he does get more appointments.

And I have to say, getting just those three justices in his first term, that was amazing. That was really a big deal. He you were get one or two more to get five, you really have to go back to history for a president who was fortunate enough to have that many vacancies on his watch.

KEILAR: Yes, it really is an amazing number.

BISKUPIC: Yes.

KEILAR: Joan, thank you, as always.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

KEILAR: We appreciate it.

And still to come, lawsuits, revoked licenses, and threats of jail time. How president- elect Trump could follow through on promises to go after the media in his second term.

SANCHEZ: And at any moment, a jury in Indiana could decide the fate of a man accused of killing two young girls as deliberations resume in the highly publicized Delphi double murder trial.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:38:03]

KEILAR: Right now, Dutch police are investigating some terrifying anti-Semitic attacks on Israeli soccer fans.

SANCHEZ: Some incidents have been captured on video and it shows Israelis being chased down the streets in Amsterdam and beaten.

CNN's Melissa Bell is in Amsterdam with the details.

And we should warn you, some images you're about to see are disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the children, for the children, (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "For the children" trumped attackers. "Free Palestine now. "

(SHOUTING)

BELL: The Israeli embassy is one of hundreds of Israeli fans targeted in Amsterdam overnight after a soccer match between the Israeli team and the Dutch team, with the attackers violently denouncing Israel's war on Gaza.

This man trying to escape being beaten saying that he isn't Jewish.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not Jewish.

BELL: Before being struck hard in the face.

(SHOUTING)

BELL: The Dutch prime minister condemning the attacks as anti-Semitic and vowing to prosecute the perpetrators.

Police say they've launched a major investigation. It's unclear how it all started. In total, more than 60 individuals were arrested and some remain in

custody.

And in a press conference Friday, the city's mayor had this to say.

FEMKE HALSEMA, AMSTERDAM MAYOR: What happened last night is not a protest. It has nothing to do with protests or demonstrations. It is crime.

(CHANTING)

BELL: The violence culminated offering a buildup earlier this week with Israeli fans seen here chanting pro-IBS slogans and "'F' the Arabs."

(CHANTING)

BELL: And others tearing down a Palestinian flag from a building.

(CHANTING)

[14:40:04]

BELL: And while the situation is now under control., attention may soon shift to France where a match between the Israeli and French soccer teams is scheduled for next week.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BELL: This is a continent that has felt particularly key to the effects of the war in Gaza with large Muslim and large Jewish communities and a lot of feeling about the war and the way it's prosecuted by the Israeli government.

Still, as you heard from the mayor of Amsterdam, the events overnight, she said, had nothing to do with that. They were anti-Semitic in nature, criminal.

What we have seen today is the Israeli foreign minister here speaking with authorities about how to make sure those responsible are prosecuted and continue to work with European governments so that these kinds of incidents don't happen again -- Boris and Brianna?

SANCHEZ: A really eye-opening video.

Melissa Bell, thank you for that update from Amsterdam.

Candidate Donald Trump vowed to jail journalists, to revoke broadcast licenses and to target media outlets with lawsuits. And now, as president- elect, he is getting set to make his triumphant return to the White House and experts warn he could actually follow through on those promises.

KEILAR: There is some growing fear that he could do major damage to press freedoms.

We have CNN media correspondent, Hadas Gold, with new reporting on this. She's joining us live.

Hadas, what are you learning?

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Trump expressed a lot of admiration in the past for strong men, military leaders who in their own countries dismantled and weakened the press.

I wanted to talk to some experts on freedom of the press and authoritarianism around the world and ask them, what did those people do and could that happen here?

Their answer was, it's death by 1,000 cuts. You won't see a major mass event or mass arrests or shutdowns of organizations. It's these small, obscure, sometimes bureaucratic steps that really whittle down the freedom of the press.

It's things like attacks on access, attacks on media, those in power and indirect and direct pressure on the owners who have media companies leading to self-censorship, leveraging of their wealthy allies to buy them out and essentially turning them into government mouthpieces.

And legal challenges. We've seen lawsuits and investigations not necessarily connected to journalism but we've seen targeting journalists for unrelated issues like tax investigation.

And even if the lawsuit is thrown out, just responding to a lawsuit like that can drain a lot of resources from news organizations and from journalists.

So if any of that sound familiar, well, we've seen President-Elect Donald Trump get a lawsuit currently going on against CBS, a $10 million, over their interview with Vice President Kamala Harris.

And in terms of self-censorship, some of these experts pointed to the "Washington Post" and "L.A. Times," their owners stopping their editorial boards from endorsing Kamala Harris and saying that can be a sign of that self-censorship, where you don't need direct pressure on a business owner but just a sort of indirect pressure, that can lead to self-censorship.

As you know, the owners of those papers, like Jeff Bezos, have nothing to do -- they having nothing to do with it.

I do want to end on a note of optimism, though. And listen, the United States is a much different place than a country like Hungary and experts say there's a big diversity of media. And they say the United States has strong laws in place to help protect the media industry.

SANCHEZ: Hadas Gold, thank you so much for the update.

We want to discuss now with Chris Wallace. He is the anchor of "THE CHRIS WALLACE SHOW" and also the anchor of "WHO'S TALKING WITH CHRIS WALLACE" streaming on Max.

Always got to - (CROSSTALK)

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR, "THE CHRIS WALLACE SHOW": Thank you for that. I just want to say I have --

SANCHEZ: A plug.

WALLACE: -- nothing do with naming of the show.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: It's a great name.

KEILAR: Strong.

SANCHEZ: So what do you make of these threats from Trump all the way through the campaign, and now that he's president-elect, the likelihood he goes after media outlets that say negative things about him?

WALLACE: Well, he doesn't like us. And he certainly doesn't like criticism. And it didn't get a lot of reporting but there were a number of news organizations that had written critical reports in recent days that were suddenly banned from what turned out to be his victory party on Wednesday morning down in Florida. Just not allowed. Their credentials were revoked.

And of course, we saw what the Trump White House did with our Jim Acosta trying, luckily failing, fortunately failing, to keep him out of the White House press room.

There's definitely going to be tensions. He doesn't like criticism. And I don't think, as years have gone by, he likes it anymore. And I think people will be frozen out.

You know, is there going to be a full-scale war on the media or the suits, for instance, the suit against "60 Minutes," is not seriously considered. I'm sure it's going to cost CBS some money.

But, you know, chances are much more likely than not that it will end up getting thrown out, but it's going to be a long four years.

[14:45:03]

KEILAR: I wonder what you think about how he's used the media? And really how both candidates did, ultimately, looking back, skewing sometimes main stream media or just going with certain outlets or, in Trump's case, going that podcast route with Joe Rogan?

Looking where viewers are, millions and millions of them, and saying that's where I'm going to go get a big audience. And what that message, I think, candidates can take away from the future looking back on what happened?

WALLACE: I think it's particularly interesting what Trump's strategy was, particularly in the fall. He turned down "60 Minutes," the most- watched television news program on the air.

And instead, he went to a lot of podcasts. Interestingly enough, it started back in June when he went on Logan Paul, a media, social media influencer, a wrestling.

He went on his podcast and, apparently, one of his top media advisors, Trump's, was his 18-year-old son, Barron. He said to his media people, go to Barron and ask him which are the cool podcasts, which are the ones.

Obviously, he was making a very concerted effort to reach out to young men, young men of color, and was taking a lot of advice from Barron about the platforms to go on and not.

And of course, what we saw at the end of the campaign was the battle over Joe Rogan, who was, I guess, the top-rated podcast in America. And very appealing to young men.

And he went on it, three hours, ended up being very late for a rally later that night because he thought it's more important to be on Joe Rogan than any place else. And ended up getting Rogan's endorsement in the final days.

Interesting enough, Kamala Harris was going to talk, was she going to do, was she not going to do it? Rogen insisted she come down and do it live in Boston, and not an hour, it would be extensive. She said no.

SANCHEZ: With no offense toward folks that are influencers, that post podcasts, none meant at all. But the quality and the caliber of questions that would be asked by someone interviewing a potential presidential candidate on Joe Rogan versus "60 Minutes" is vastly different.

What does it tell you that, for a lot of Americans, they're not going to "60 Minutes" or other venerated institutions to hear from these candidates and would rather hear from them in a format like a podcast?

WALLACE: Well, it's not only that. It's a question of, you meet the voters where they are. And particularly, if you're looking at young people, and young men, and not a lot of them are watching "60 Minutes."

Frankly, they're not watching a lot of the legacy media, including the three cable news channels, the three major networks. And if you want to reach that audience, you've got to go where they are. You have to go where they're listening.

And that tends to be podcasts and social media platforms.

KEILAR: Maybe they want the questions asked that they would ask themselves, and they connect with that on a podcast, too.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

I'm right here. Go ahead. WALLACE: I was just going to say, And I don't think that, you know,

the people who are listening to those podcast care about the rigor with which the questions are asked or what's the fact checking that goes into a Rogan interview?

They listen to the show in the first place and they want to listen to the people who those influencers are interviewing.

SANCHEZ: We are looking forward to checking out your show and the questions that you ask and the rigor in which you ask them.

Be sure to watch "WHO'S TALKING TO CHRIS WALLACE" --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Let's do it.

SANCHEZ: He does also anchor of "THE CHRIS WALLACE SHOW" airing episodes on Saturdays at 10:00 a.m. on CNN and CNN Max.

Chris Wallace, thanks so much -

WALLACE: I listen to you guys. I listen to me. So there we go.

(LAUGHTER)

WALLACE: -- target demo.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: I should listen to me more.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Chris, thank you so much.

WALLACE: Thank you.

[14:49:06]

SANCHEZ: Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The fate of the man accused of killing two girls in Delphi, Indiana, is now in the hands of the jury. Richard Allen has pleaded not guilty to murder charges. He's reportedly facing up to 130 years in prison if convicted of all charges.

Abby Williams and Libby German went missing a after going for a hike back in February of 2017. And prosecutors allege Allen confessed to the murders dozens of times to multiple people, including his wife, mother and his fellow prison inmates.

SANCHEZ: But his defense claims those confessions stem from Allen's fragile mental state after being held in solitary confinement for months.

CNN's Jean Casarez joins us.

Jean, the case went to the jury yesterday. What are you hearing about deliberations?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they've been deliberating since 9:00 this morning. Not a peep out of them. They are really, really focused on what the facts are, applying it to the law.

This is a case, there is no DNA at all linking Richard Allen to the victims in this case. There is no DNA found in his home linking him to the victims in this case. There is no murder weapon in this case.

But what they have is a picture. They have a picture from Libby German's phone minutes before she was murdered, prosecutors say, and that's Bridge Guy. You see him there. That's bridge guy.

The question before the jury is, is Bridge Guy Richard Allen? Is it the same person? Is it not the same person?

Now, there were two witnesses that took the stand, eyewitnesses out at the trails that day, and both testified they saw Bridge Guy.

Now on cross-examination, got a little murky because one of them said, originally, oh, he was wearing a beige jacket. And the picture comes out. Oh, no. He was wearing a blue jacket.

The other woman was driving. She saw him walking. And she said he was muddy. That's her first interview with police. Second interview, months later, even a year later, oh, he was muddy.

[14:55:08]

But then finally, near the end, before trial, oh, no, he was muddy and bloody. She had never said bloody before.

But the reality is that Richard Allen was out there that day. He places himself at the scene. And he went to police in 2017 saying I was out there that day and I just wanted to let you know I did see three girls, not two girls. And there were three girls out there that day. But he proclaimed his innocence.

Now when the girls were found, their throats were slit, both of them. That's how they died. That's the cause of death right there. Both of them.

And the medical examiner originally said, well, I think it was as serrated blade and a straight blade. Two different tools were used.

So that also creates an issue. Wow, one man, two girls, he slits both of their throats. They were not sexually assaulted at all.

But then you get to the point Richard Allen went from county jail to a state prison within a month after he was arrested. He's been in solitary confinement for 13 months. And originally, he proclaimed his innocence. But as the months went

on, April 2023, is when he started, he was confessing to everybody. His wife, his mother, jail guards, everybody, psychiatrists. And he even gave particular details.

But at the same time, he had his legal documents in the cell with him of what the prosecution's case was. And this is evidence, he was eating his own feces. He was spreading it on himself. He was drinking the water out of the toilet. He was in a fetal position and his eyes were bulging.

He was diagnosed with psychotic disorders right then. So this jury has a lot to decide, what is fact, what is not. Is he guilty, is there reasonable doubt?

KEILAR: Wow. Jean Casarez, thank you so much. So many are watching this case and we will, too.

So if you are a Republican political operative, the place to be is Mar-a-Lago. Ahead, how the jockey for jobs is playing out as President-Elect Donald Trump decides who will be in his new administration.

This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)