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DOJ Officials Brace For Chaos And Retribution As Trump Weighs Attorney General Pick; Today: Judge's Self-Imposed Deadline On Trump Immunity; Zelenskyy: Ukraine Fighting 50,000 Troops In Russia's Kursk Region. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired November 12, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:30:42]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: As President-elect Donald Trump considers who to choose as his attorney general career Justice Department officials are worried the second Trump term will bring chaos and potential political retribution.

One official told CNN there is a "general sense of depression" among lawyers who worked on Trump's legal cases. Another Justice Department official says some are considering whether they themselves should hire their own lawyers.

Another factor adding to their worries -- well, uh, whether or not the Supreme Court's immunity ruling that expanded his presidential legal protections is going to play a role here.

CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez, what are you hearing this morning from inside the Justice Department?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a range of things, Sara. I mean, it's everything from the fact that you see four years of your work and you see it probably going to be undone, right?

And so you have Justice Department employees who are concerned not only about that but also about the fact that the former president and some of his allies have said they want to gut the FBI. They say they want to get rid of people who worked on cases that he cared about, including, of course, the two cases at the Justice Department Jack Smith, the special counsel, brought against the former president -- the incoming president-elect.

And so those are some of the concerns you hear from inside the department -- inside the FBI. And some of it -- you know, you're getting a lot of attention from people who are up for -- or in consideration for attorney general.

There's Mark Paoletta who is a conservative attorney -- a smart guy. And yesterday he posted on social media and said the following. He said, "If these career DOJ employees don't -- won't implement President Trump's program in good faith, they should leave. Those employees who engage in so-called resistance against the duly elected president's lawful agenda would be subverting American democracy." And he said that those people should essentially just resign.

And there's a lot of reason -- there's a lot of concern I think for this fact -- that even if he picks someone like Paoletta, somebody like Bill Barr, somebody like Jeff Sessions, that we know that the former president has a history of putting pressure on those people to try to carry out prosecutions, some of which would be necessarily illegal, right -- going after his political enemies when there is no evidence.

And so previous attorneys general have run into problems with Trump as a reason -- as a result of that. He fired Jeff Sessions, and we know he essentially pushed out Bill Barr near the end of this term because he wouldn't support the claims of vote fraud.

So that's the picture as Trump is trying to pick what many would consider perhaps the worst job in Washington -- certainly the toughest cabinet position to fill in the next few days -- Sara.

SIDNER: Yeah. He fired one of his top cops and then he had pushed out the other.

What about FBI Director Wray? Where does he stand in all of this?

PEREZ: Well, the former president -- or the incoming president-elect has already said that he wants to fire Chris Wray. He serves the -- he's in the seventh year of his -- of his 10-year term. And so Donald Trump could be the first president who essentially fires two FBI directors. That is an unusual thing.

And so one of the things that's going on in the FBI is officials are trying to figure out whether Donald Trump really means that. Whether -- what has he said more recently? It's been a while since he actually has said he wants to fire the FBI director.

And so what we're expecting and what people inside the Trump transition expect is that if Chris Wray doesn't -- that -- Chris Wray may not have to wait to be fired. That he is most likely going to resign rather than be fired. That is, of course, if they can figure out whether Trump really means what he says.

SIDNER: Evan Perez, great reporting for us this morning. Appreciate you -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now, Matt Gorman, Republican strategist and former senior adviser for Tim Scott's presidential campaign. And Julie Roginsky, Democratic strategist and co-founder of Lift Up Your Voices.

[07:35:00]

I want to talk about the big news that broke overnight. Marco Rubio to be nominated for Secretary of State, CNN has learned.

Matt, just the significance of that pick politically, and also as you look at the international stage and Trump's foreign policy?

MATT GORMAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER FOR TIM SCOTT'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST (via Webex by Cisco): A couple of things. I think it's a great pick.

I mean, look, back in '16 -- 2016 you had essentially a shotgun marriage between Trump and a lot of his appointees. A lot of them were RNC folks. Look, the folks now in Trump's orbit have been dating for about 10 years so to speak, and so they have a relationship with him.

Marco Rubio obviously ran against him in 2016. I know that well. So you're able to get the people of his stature and of other folks. Maybe for Secretary of Defense, maybe a Joni Ernst possibly because you have those relationships.

And look, also two things. Marco is one of the leaders on really being hawkish and taking on China directly, understanding the threat they pose. It's a bad day to be in Beijing right now if you're one of the CCP leaders.

BERMAN: And the incoming national security adviser, Michael Waltz, holds similar views.

I just want to remind people of what Matt was saying because it is worth noting the relationship that Rubio and Trump have had over the years. They ran against each other for president in 2016. During that time Trump once tweeted, "Marco Rubio is a total lightweight who I wouldn't hire to run one of my smaller companies." I think we have this. We can put it up on the screen. "A highly overrated politician."

And then Marco Rubio once, on stage, went on a sort of rant about Donald Trump's fingers -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Which is why I don't understand why his hands are the size of someone who is five-two. Have you seen his hands? They're like this. And you know what they say about men with small hands. You can't trust them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, it just had to be played. That was a long time ago though, Julie, and it does say something that politicians can move on, yes?

JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, CO-FOUNDER, LIFT UP YOUR VOICES: Well, Marco Rubio has moved on from every position he's ever held on immigration with respect to Donald Trump.

Look, I'm a Democrat. Obviously, Marco Rubio is not my cup of tea. But I would say this was as good a pick as you can make for Donald Trump except for one thing, and this applies to everybody in his administration. They're going to bend the knee the Donald Trump. He's going to run his own foreign policy. This is not a typical president who sits around with is cabinet and takes advice and listens to input. He has made up his mind the people around him who are not his duly

elected -- not elected but appointed cabinet members, like Elon Musk, probably will have a bigger say about foreign policy than Marco Rubio if the past is predicate.

And so, again, for everybody celebrating this is kind of a normie pick -- that people are putting -- that he's putting people in who are not necessarily MAGA -- these are people who have consistently bent the knee to whatever Donald Trump wants, and he will be running policy himself. And from that perspective I think this is kind of virtue signaling pick to the "establishment" because the real establishment now is MAGA and anybody who doesn't get on board, like Marco Rubio, will be out in five seconds the same way that his predecessors were in the first administration.

BERMAN: Matt, you want to respond to that?

GORMAN: Sure. Yeah, he does run policy because last Tuesday at the ballot box the American people enabled him to run the policy. This is -- he's implementing his campaign promises, right? Again --

ROGINSKY: Yeah.

GORMAN: -- the idea that he doesn't do that -- he was just elected the President of the United States, and everyone is going to support his vision on that. And that will be the same with Kamala Harris. That's what you saw with Joe Biden and Barack Obama. That's nothing new here.

And so I think the idea of this loyalist stuff it's a total misnomer. (INAUDIBLE) pejorative. Tony Blinken, Ron Klain -- they were Biden loyalists. That's OK. A president gets an amount of deference to install his team and that's what you're seeing here.

ROGINSKY: But I will just say one thing, Matt. The difference between Trump and everybody else, including -- I'll go to Republicans as well -- Reagan, Bush, the second Bush, and so on -- is that he doesn't sit around and take advice from his cabinet. It's not a collaborative process, right?

Joe Biden -- you mentioned Barack Obama -- would sit and actually listen to input from his advisers because they were qualified, right? Tony Blinken didn't just show up. Marco Rubio, for that matter, didn't just show up. These are people who have been working in this space for a very long time.

I think we both know that Donald Trump is not going to sit around and take advice from his cabinet and consider and weigh both sides of the equation before making tough decisions. And he has some very, very, very tough decisions to make.

But we know that he has advisers who are outside his cabinet -- starting with his son-in-law Jared Kushner and ending with Elon Musk who basically bought this election for him -- who have much more influence and much more input than anybody like Marco Rubio will ever have. And I think that's something we have to concede and something we have to acknowledge.

BERMAN: Matt?

GORMAN: Let me let -- look, I guess a couple of things.

I wish that Joe Biden would have listened to his cabinet when the Afghanistan disastrous thing was happening in 2021. I wish that -- I'm grateful that Barack Obama did listen to his cabinet when Joe Biden was telling him not to go and invade and kill Osama bin Laden.

So again, look, the -- at the end of the day the president is the ultimate decisionmaker --

ROGINSKY: Um-hum.

[07:40:00]

GORMAN: -- and everything flows from there.

But again, the idea that we're disappointed in someone like Marco Rubio taking this job I just think we're trying to --

ROGINSKY: I'm not disappointed.

GORMAN: -- just find little things. And again, I think that's really what this ends up being.

BERMAN: Can I -- I want to bring up one side future note. I want to put a bookmark in this and we're going to come back to this.

I do wonder what's being set up now for the fight of the future of the Republican Party -- the post-Trump where you've got Marco Rubio who could be Secretary of State very shortly, J.D. Vance who is vice president. There's Elon Musk over here. There's Ron DeSantis in Florida, right? A lot of the Florida people are getting pulled into this administration. I wonder what Ron DeSantis thinks about that? And then there's Don Jr.

I mean, is this going to be like a "GAME OF THRONES" jockeying, Matt, for the -- you know, the mantle of the next -- the future of the party? I know it's early, but you can never be too early on cable television.

GORMAN: We're barely a week old, John. We're barely a week old. No. Look, I think -- I think we have a long way to go between now and then.

Certainly, as Kamala Harris will tell you, right, having a sitting vice president who wants to run for president gives you a leg up better than anyone.

But again, this will be unprecedented. Certainly I would see someone like a DeSantis wants to run, Marco Rubio, and others. I mean, we'll see where it goes. But J.D. Vance, right now, is probably a little -- the first (INAUDIBLE) polls just because he's a sitting vice president, and rightly so. BERMAN: He knows I'm right. I can tell he knows I'm right. He knows

I'm right because there's something going on here.

All right, Matt, Julie, thank you both very much.

GORMAN: Only two weeks.

BERMAN: Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Just say John's right and you'll be able to wrap it up.

BERMAN: That's right.

BOLDUAN: That is the key to success. I'm just kidding.

So more than 25 million people across the Northeast are under red flag warnings this morning. The dry, windy conditions facing so many states is just fueling the wildfires that crews have been battling for days now.

The Jennings Creek Fire along the New Jersey-New York border has burned 3,500 acres so far and it's only 20 percent contained.

CNN's Leigh Waldman is there in Hewitt, New Jersey following all of this for us. What are you seeing there, and what are you hearing from officials?

LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, good to be with you this morning.

So we're in one of the areas where some of the fire has actually been extinguished but you can see some of the smoldering behind us, some of the trees burnt out, and smoke still lingering behind.

This got dangerously close to homes not only 200 feet from where we are just now. Thankfully, this fire burning through the dried out ground here, it's not looking like it's going to cross the road and impact the homes, like I said, not 200 feet from where we are right now.

Officials -- they're still working to try and contain this fire but they're up against historic drought in this area, gusty winds that we've been feeling all morning long, and extremely, extremely dry air. We're hoping to hear more from officials in just a few hours, expecting a 10:30 a.m. press conference from the New Jersey Forest Fire Service. We just have been seeing some of them driving through this area today.

But we've been seeing trees spark all throughout this area. Some roads have been closed off. There's not mandatory evacuations here Kate, but with these homes so close to where these fires have sparked some officials are telling people that they need to have bags packed and ready to go if the fire does get too close to their homes.

We spoke to the mayor of the Greenwood Lake village in this area. He said that the schools in this area were under a two-hour delay. That's because it was so dark this morning, they didn't want the school bus drivers and the people who are driving their kids to schools to be impacted by the fire. So we saw a school bus driving in this area. A police officer offered to drive behind them to make sure those kids got to school safely.

We know this is a dangerous situation and everyone's hard at work to try and contain this fire, Kate.

BOLDUAN: And it's -- that dangerous situation is definitely -- as you're seeing and as you're reporting, definitely not over yet. Thank you very much for the reporting -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Ahead, Donald Trump's hush money conviction at a crossroads today. Will this case be thrown out just two weeks before he is scheduled to be sentenced? And why some online pharmacies are seeing sales skyrocket since Donald Trump won the presidential election. Those stories and more ahead.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:48:37]

SIDNER: Today, New York Supreme Court Judge Juan Merchan is expected to decide whether to clear President-elect Donald Trump's conviction related to a hush money payment made during the 2016 presidential campaign. Judge Merchan's self-imposed deadline coming after the Supreme Court's decision granting Trump presidential immunity. If the judge ends up dismissing the conviction, the charges would be dismissed, and Trump would not be sentenced.

Joining us now, CNN senior legal analyst and former assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York, Elie Honig.

You have been following all the cases --

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, FORMER FEDERAL AND STATE PROSECUTOR: Indeed.

SIDNER: -- for many years. What -- can you give us some sense of what the arguments are being made on both sides of this case?

HONIG: Sure. So it's important to understand the trial happened first. The conviction happened in late May and then about a month later the Supreme Court came out with its immunity ruling. And so now Donald Trump's lawyers are saying well, we're entitled to the benefit of that ruling. So Trump's team is arguing that under the immunity ruling the president's communications with top advisers is either automatically or presumptively immune.

Now, Trump's team is arguing that in the hush money case there was some evidence -- not much but a little bit of evidence of Trump's conversations while he was early in his first term in 2017 -- talks that he had with Hope Hicks, his comms director and other White House staff. And so Trump's team is arguing that should have been immune. That should never have been admitted against me and therefore the verdict has to get thrown out.

[07:50:05]

Now, prosecutors are responding. They put in a brief saying essentially, yeah, but that was not an official act. You were talking about your campaign. That was personal business so therefore it doesn't meet the definition.

So that's really the dispute that Judge Merchan will have to decide today.

SIDNER: What are the chances here of what you see --

HONIG: Yeah.

SIDNER: -- because the sentencing would be, what, this month?

HONIG: Yeah. Well, the sentencing --

SIDNER: The end of this month.

HONIG: -- is scheduled for November 26.

SIDNER: Right.

HONIG: A big question about whether that will go ahead.

As for what Judge Merchan will do today, it's always hard to get a judge to throw out a jury's verdict, right? Judges try to uphold juries' verdicts, you try to --

SIDNER: Right.

HONIG: -- respect it, except for in really unusual circumstances.

One wrinkle though is the D.A. is arguing that even if this evidence was immune and should not have been admitted, it is what -- we prosecutors love this phrase "harmless error" meaning there was enough other evidence and the evidence that shouldn't have come in didn't really make a difference.

The problem though is the D.A. stood up in front of that jury and said this evidence of Trump's communications with Hope Hicks is "utterly devastating" to the case against him, and that it is a "crucial piece of the puzzle." So a little hard to say that evidence didn't matter when the D.A. said it's a critical piece of the puzzle.

So I'm giving betting advice here --

SIDNER: No.

HONIG: -- but never safe to bet on a reversal, but Trump's got a better chance than your average litigant.

SIDNER: May I ask you what happens if the judge says nope, this conviction stands? HONIG: Yeah.

SIDNER: Then what?

HONIG: The next question is do we proceed to sentencing as scheduled on November 26? Watch for Trump's lawyers very soon if they lose today to make this argument. You cannot sentence the president-elect. It's pretty clear and we've never -- obviously never had a situation anything like this, but it's pretty clear that a state prosecution cannot proceed against the sitting president. You can't imprison the sitting president on a state charge.

Trump's team is going to try to make that argument in this case and others and roll it back to include the president-elect. I think they'll say he has official duties now. He's in the process of transition to the new administration so he doesn't have the time, and he can't be sidetracked with sentencing.

We don't know. Anyone who tells you they know that for sure is making it up. We've never had a situation --

SIDNER: Right.

HONIG: -- of someone who is about to take office who is facing criminal charges. But that will be the argument they make, and Judge Merchan is going to have to figure it out.

SIDNER: Was there any sense in this case before all of these arguments being made --

HONIG: Yeah.

SIDNER: -- that there was potential jail time?

HONIG: Maybe. So my assessment before all of this happened --

SIDNER: Yeah.

HONIG: -- was that there was a 50-50 chance Judge Merchan would sentence Donald Trump to prison. But even putting aside the fact that Trump's been re-elected he was going to get bail pending appeal, meaning --

SIDNER: Right.

HONIG: -- no matter what his sentence he was going to get --

SIDNER: (INAUDIBLE).

HONIG: -- to carry all those appeals. Now that he's been re-elected, there is -- there is just no chance he gets locked up on the state case or the federal cases. But it does matter how it gets wound down. I mean, this stuff still matters. We're making a historical record here.

SIDNER: Right. A jury made a decision, the judge had to make his decision, and then we will see what happens --

HONIG: Yeah.

SIDNER: -- from there.

HONIG: Exactly.

SIDNER: Elie Honig, it's always wonderful to see.

HONIG: Thanks, Sara -- all right.

SIDNER: Thank you.

Over to you, Miss Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, darling.

Online sales of emergency contraception have skyrocketed in the United States since Election Day. Why? Women are stockpiling the medication as they face the reality that the Trump administration could make it harder to access these and other reproductive health medicines.

CNN's Jacqueline Howard is tracking this one for us and she's joining us now. Jacqueline, what are companies seeing and saying about this jump in sales?

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Well, Kate, one company says they saw a 1,000 percent spike in sales -- 1,000 percent. So that's how big of an increase we're seeing in these types of sales.

And I spoke with the heads of two different telehealth companies. One company called Winx Health said in the three days after the election results were announced they saw an increase of 966 percent in sales of their morning after pill compared with the three days before the results were announced.

And then over at another company called Wisp they saw an increase of 1,000 percent in sales of emergency contraception just one day after the election.

And the CEO of Wisp, Monica Cepak -- here is what she had to say about why these trends are happening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MONICA CEPAK, CEO, WISP: Women are concerned and are taking agency over their reproductive health and preparing for whatever outcome the next few years brings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD: And Kate, it's still not clear what could happen under the next Trump administration but there is concern that if additional restrictions are placed on abortion, for instance, that could have a ripple affect impacting access to other types of reproductive health medications like emergency contraception. BOLDUAN: Absolutely. I mean, and what medicines are seeing the biggest spikes?

HOWARD: Yeah. Well, Plan B is a type of emergency contraception. It's the morning after pill. And we know that Plan B has seen huge, huge spikes in sales. And this is a medication that's available right now in all 50 states and over the counter. But again, the concern is could we see additional restrictions impacting access?

[07:55:00]

And emergency contraception is different than abortion. Emergency contraception -- it's taken after having sex, but it's intended to prevent pregnancy whereas we know abortion medication is intended to end pregnancy. So these are two different types of medications, but they all fall under the umbrella of reproductive health, and that's where the concern is, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. Jacqueline, thank you so much for reporting -- John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning an Indiana jury has convicted Richard Allen in the murders of two teenage girls. In 2017, Abigail Williams and Liberty German vanished during a hike near an abandoned railroad bridge.

When the girls noticed a man walking behind them, Libby recorded a video on her cell phone showing a grainy image of a man. It took five years for police to arrest him, but the video proved to be a crucial piece of evidence.

Allen is set to be sentenced next month.

Authorities in Italy have uncovered a largescale art forgery network -- the sold fake art claiming to be from notable artists, including Banksy, Picasso, Andy Warhol. Investigators say they seized more than 2,100 pieces of fake art which had a potential market value of $215 million. They also discovered six forgery workshops, including two in Tuscany, one in Venice, and the rest in other parts of Europe.

This sounds like a Daniel Silva novel to be honest.

This morning, world leaders getting creative in preparation for the new Trump administration not necessarily briefing books or policy refreshers -- no. South Korea's president is apparently taking up golf after an eight-year hiatus. He might have heard Donald Trump likes golf. He visited more courses than any recent president during his first year in office -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right, thank you, John.

Right now Russian forces are ramping up their ground offensive to try to push Ukrainian troops out of Russia's Kursk region. Ukrainian President Zelenskyy says Russia has deployed nearly 50,000 troops, including North Koreans, to the region where Ukraine launched its counteroffensive a few months ago stunning Moscow.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is in the Russian capital. We are going to get the very latest -- Fred.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Since the war in Ukraine, relations between Moscow and Washington have continued to plummet to new lows. But now many people here hope and believe that a new Trump presidency could bring those relations back on track.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking foreign language).

TEXT: Well, definitely, Donald Trump and Putin's relationship will be better than Vladimir Putin and Joe Biden's relationship. I don't know how much better they're going to be, but it's definitely going to be interesting to watch. It's hard to make any bets -- very hard. And Trump has already said he wants to end the war in Ukraine. Do you think he can? Is that possible now? I don't think he can directly end the war, but I feel like he can make some ultimatums to both sides that will definitely bring this conflict closer to an end.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking foreign language).

TEXT: Trump was Trump and Trump remains Trump. I think it will be the same as before.

PLEITEN: (Speaking foreign language).

TEXT: And you think relations between Russia and the U.S. might be improving under a Trump presidency?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking foreign language).

TEXT: We don't have any friends.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking foreign language).

TEXT: So I wish -- I really wish we could be friends. I would really like to be friends. And hopefully, the relationship will improve. I really hope so.

PLEITGEN: (Speaking foreign language).

TEXT: Trump also said he wants to end the war in Ukraine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking foreign language).

TEXT: We all want that. We really want that the war will stop now. This situation is impossible. I hope we get to a mutual understanding.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: It's always interesting to hear from Russian citizens. Fred Pleitgen for us there in Moscow.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

BERMAN: All right. Breaking overnight, the man Donald Trump once called "Little Marco" being tapped for a big promotion. And the new information we're learning this morning about the next appointments for the incoming Trump administration.

We're standing by to find out whether a New York judge will toss Donald Trump's criminal conviction in the New York hush money case. That ruling could come any minute.

And "your body, my choice forever. The disturbing online attacks against women getting millions of clicks and shares online since Donald Trump's win.

I'm John Berman with Sara Sidner and Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: It promises to be another whirlwind day for the Trump transition. With a new -- with a new day brings a new wave of job announcements. This morning, two big names now front and center for two key posts. Several sources say that Trump is expected to nominate Florida Sen. Marco Rubio for Secretary of State, and North Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem is expected to be Trump's pick for Secretary of Homeland Security.