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Interview With Rep. Tom Tiffany (R-WI); Senate Republicans Pick John Thune as Next Leader; Biden Hosts Trump at White House. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired November 13, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:01]

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: But we are just learning from our colleague Arlette Saenz at the White House the Trump-Biden meeting has ended.

So, this certainly will open up a -- it's more than an hour, maybe an hour-and-a-half or so. So we will be scrambling to see what was learned and discussed in that meeting.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Yes, well that's the most important meeting of the day. And we will certainly be reporting on what happened there.

Don't go anywhere. We are going to have coverage continuing of the meeting as they come out. Stay with us. CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: President-elect Donald Trump returns to Washington, and CNN has just confirmed that his meeting with President Joe Biden in the White House has just wrapped as of moments ago, Biden hosting Trump in the White House for talks in the Oval Office, transition talks.

The face-to-face obviously a long-held tradition meant to pave the way for a smooth transfer of power, except, of course, four years ago Trump refused the same courtesy for Biden. Let's play some video of what they discussed just ahead of their meeting this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well Mr. President-Elect and former president, Donald, congratulations.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

BIDEN: And looking forward to having a, like we said, smooth transition. Do everything we can to make sure you're accommodated, what you need. And we're going to get a chance to talk about some of that today. So, welcome. Welcome back.

TRUMP: Thank you very much. And thank you very much.

And politics is tough, and it's, in many cases, not a very nice world, but it is a nice world today. And I appreciate it very much, a transition that's so smooth. It'll be as smooth as it can get. And I very much appreciate that, Joe.

BIDEN: You're welcome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: So that White House meeting is one of several stops for Trump today. He huddled with House Republicans this morning, where he backed Speaker Mike Johnson's bid to retain his leadership position.

A secret ballot vote is set for the next hour on that. And just minutes ago, Senate Republicans elected South Dakota's John Thune to replace Mitch McConnell as the new Senate GOP leader, rejecting the preferred pick of Trump's MAGA allies, Senator Rick Scott. That also was a secret ballot.

CNN's M.J. Lee and Kristen Holmes are live for us from the White House.

And, M.J., this was a moment to witness, Trump and Biden side by side in the Oval Office.

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It was quite the moment, Brianna.

After about two hours of the two leaders sitting in the Oval Office together behind closed doors, we have just gotten word from a source that the meeting has ended. And, actually, I have just also heard that President Trump has officially left the White House, so skipping the very big group of press gathered outside of the West Wing for maybe a glimpse of the former president if he had chosen to come out.

That didn't happen. Again, the former president has left after this very lengthy meeting with President Biden. As you showed there, President Biden welcoming the former president, his predecessor, and now the person that will be his successor to the White House with the words "Welcome back," of course, marking such a stark contrast from the kinds of language that we had heard from the president throughout the course of this campaign, describing his predecessor as a fascist, describing him as a real threat to the country.

But now, with this meeting, sort of cementing a principle that he has said is so important for the country to adhere to, and that is the peaceful transfer of power. I have been in touch with a number of White House officials and people close to the president here to try to get a sense of how they are sort of processing this moment.

And I can tell you, it has been a day where emotions have been running high. A lot of these folks here, of course, had expected and wanted a different outcome in last week's election, were very disappointed when Vice President Harris ended up losing to Donald Trump.

And some of the folks I talked to essentially said, look, it is going to be another crazy, busy day at the White House, and we are just trying to focus on the work and this process that the president himself has said is so important, this peaceful transition from the Biden administration now in a couple of weeks to the Trump administration.

We also know that President Biden, of course, had hoped to talk about a range of issues, both domestic and foreign policy-related, with the incoming president, including, for example, stressing the need, in his view, for the U.S. to continue supporting Ukraine's war efforts.

[13:05:00]

What is not clear is whether President Biden believes that any of those urges, his pleas will have any kind of effect on Donald Trump, given that their world views on so many of these issues tend to be so contrasting.

So, again, this meeting between President Trump and President Biden has just ended, marking a real capstone moment for a campaign that has been so tumultuous and we are seeing such a full, vivid picture of that transition of power that again President Biden had said was so important, happen peacefully.

SANCHEZ: M.J., thank you so much for that update.

Kristen, what about the view from Trump world? What more are you hearing about his big day back in Washington?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris and Brianna, I mean, this really marks the beginning of the peaceful transfer of power.

This is a key moment in the transition. One of the things we have been discussing is Donald Trump naming these various people for Cabinet positions, setting up the administration. But this really sets up the next presidency. And you can see in the way that Donald Trump is handling it, how he wants to set the tone.

Obviously, to be clear, Donald Trump can very quickly go back on anything that he has done. But as we have seen so far, he has really tried to keep the tone about this transfer of power. He showed up today. There was press waiting for him outside of the plane. He did not stop and give remarks.

He only spoke briefly at the House conference, when he spoke there with Mike Johnson. And then he came here. We heard press shouting questions at him and Joe Biden. He really deferred to President Joe Biden. Joe Biden didn't take questions. Donald Trump didn't take questions.

We obviously know Donald Trump likes to talk to the press, but it was clear, again, setting the tone here. And then he did not come out to the stakeout position. He did not speak to the cameras. There was an enormous amount of press here. So we will see what he does when he gets back on his plane to go back down to Palm Beach.

But this is really the first time we're seeing Donald Trump in public since he won the election. He has been meeting with his advisers. He has been planning for the transition. He has been going over various policy decisions. And he also has been playing golf, as we know.

But this is the first time we are seeing the president-elect here. And it's on this trip to Washington. And just one thing to point out, Donald Trump is visiting a Washington today that is fundamentally completely different than what we saw in 2020 and 2016.

In 2016, he showed up to a Washington that he did not understand completely. He did not understand the government. And while he had control, he being Republicans, had control of the House and Senate. Donald Trump is walking into a Washington this time around in which the Republican Party is the party of Donald Trump.

So this is a kind of defining homecoming moment for the former president and now president-elect.

KEILAR: Yes, very well put.

Kristen Holmes, thank you live for us from the White House.

Let's talk more about this now with CNN senior political analyst Mark Preston, and presidential historian Lindsay Chervinsky. She's a senior fellow at the Center for Presidential History.

And, Lindsay, this is such an important moment, but you can't help but note that the last time we saw it was eight years ago. This is, as we said, a courtesy that Trump did not extend to Biden when he won four years ago. What did you think about what you saw in the Oval Office today?

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, I was struck by, of course, the historic nature of it.

This has become a tradition that we expect. And while it is not mandated by law or written in the Constitution, it is a demonstration of the importance of peaceful transfer of power to our republic and to our democratic institutions.

It made me sad that we didn't see it four years ago, because it is so essential to the character of our nation. And I know that it's really hard sometimes when you or your party loses. And so I felt for President Biden, and yet was really glad, as a historian, that he did extend the invitation.

SANCHEZ: Mark, it's really a striking moment, not just for the historic precedent and for what it means about deferring one's own feelings and one's own self-interest for the institution, but also just because of the interpersonal dynamic between these two men and some of the things they have said about each other.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Can I first say that the most shocking thing to me today was the fact that, when there were questions being shouted to both of them, these are two guys who enjoy taking a couple of questions from the media as they're walking away from the podium. So the fact that they had that discipline not to do so was in fact

amazing to me. But these are two guys that don't like each other. Lookit, Joe Biden thinks that Donald Trump, his brand of politics is a poison America. I mean, he's all but said that, as does most of the Democratic Party.

So I think what we have seen today was a good step towards civility. I mean, again, we -- there's a lot of predictions that this was not going to be a civil time, but we have civility right now. But let's get into the new year and I can guarantee you that civility will go away.

[13:10:03]

SANCHEZ: Lindsay, when it comes to the utility of this kind of step in a transition process, I noticed that Trump spent almost two hours at the White House.

What is it that they're actually doing behind closed doors? And if at all does Trump's history as a disrupter of norms influence the way that that meeting and those conversations go down?

CHERVINSKY: Well, of course, we aren't privy to the conversations, but usually it's an opportunity to talk through some of the big issues that are in the president's daily briefing, whether it's foreign policy or domestic threats, whether it's an opportunity to provide some guidance or talk through some of the challenges they might face.

For example, Dwight Eisenhower and John F. Kennedy had one of these meetings, and Eisenhower really laid out the stakes of everything that was happening around the globe. And Kennedy later wrote how impressed he was by Eisenhower's grasp of everything that was happening.

Because Trump is sometimes a disrupter of those norms, I think, in this particular instance, he doesn't have a whole lot of ability to disrupt what President Biden is doing, because he's still in office. But he certainly can encourage his new appointments to work with the people that are currently in power to try and have that smooth transition.

His ability to disrupt really came more when he was in office, when he really either commanded that his subordinates didn't participate or he dissuaded them from doing so, and that did have much more of an obstructionary effect.

This time, it seems like he's playing nice with the peaceful transition, but, as they said, this could change in the coming weeks.

KEILAR: Mark, let's talk a little bit about his Cabinet as it is taking shape, because we got some really interesting news since we spoke yesterday, and that is that Pete Hegseth, who is, yes, a veteran, but a newly former FOX News host, will beat Trump's pick for defense secretary.

And he's an interesting choice. He has no government experience. He's lobbied for the exoneration of accused or convicted war criminals. He's spoken out against women in combat, and he's also hawked grenade- shaped soap. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY NOMINEE: I have used them all, and I love these new brands like Gunsmoke, smells like American firepower, or Gurkha, refined bourbon and tobacco leaf, or how about Patriot and the pine tar bar?

There's more of them too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I don't think I have to be a presidential historian to say that's probably a first for a SecDef pick.

But I want -- is he seen as a serious pick?

PRESTON: Well, certainly, in Trump world, he is, because he will carry through the America first foreign policy agenda that Donald Trump has been talking about.

The question is, can he get through the United States Senate? And there could be some pushback. We haven't seen an overwhelming support of people coming out and saying that he's a great pick from Republican senators yet. We may see that in the coming hours, if not the coming days.

But they were certainly reserved, because people were surprised by this pick. They didn't think -- I mean, where did this guy come out of, other than he has been such a fixture on FOX and has been such a cheerleader for the Trump agenda?

SANCHEZ: There's also, Lindsay, an unorthodox move with the appointment of Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy to this Department of Government Efficiency, something that Trump has likened to the Manhattan Project.

They're seeking to cut something like $2 trillion from the federal budget. What do you make of this move and specifically who he's picking, with the richest man in the world?

CHERVINSKY: Well, if we put it in historic context, there are some examples of presidents pulling people from industry, recognizing that their business skills or the skills that they have developed in their own companies might be useful to the presidency.

So, Dwight Eisenhower, Theodore Roosevelt, these are people that did pull on their business contacts. I think there are two key differences. One, they always put those business officials in positions that were confirmed by the Senate. And, two, if there were any concerns about a conflict of interest, then those individuals were not confirmed.

And, in fact, Ulysses S. Grant's first secretary of the Treasury nominee was rejected because he had too many financial ties to existing industry. And this makes sense because under a system of rule of law we don't want one individual to be the judge, jury and executioner on their own business, their own fate, their own fortune.

And so if Elon Musk is determining which government contracts survive, my guess is, he's going to choose those that go to him and to his businesses. And I think some Americans are likely to be uncomfortable with that perhaps bias in that position of authority.

[13:15:02]

SANCHEZ: Yes, a lot of questions about potential conflict of interest.

Lindsay Chervinsky, Mark Preston, appreciate the conversation

We have more breaking news into CNN. Senate Republicans have just elected John Thune as their new majority leader. We will take you live to Capitol Hill to get reaction.

Plus: bucking tradition, Melania Trump snubbing Jill Biden's White House invite, as we learn she's unlikely to move back to the White House full time as first lady.

KEILAR: And conspiracy theorist Alex Jones could lose his Infowars empire today, as it goes up for auction. New reports on who is planning to make a bid.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:07]

SANCHEZ: Breaking news into CNN, Senate Republicans have just elected John Thune as their next leader, putting the South Dakota senator on track to become a Senate majority leader next year. The lawmakers secured the win last hour on the second round of voting. He's going to be in position to greatly impact what Donald Trump can accomplish in his second term.

Let's take you live to Capitol Hill with CNN's Lauren Fox.

Lauren, obviously, this is a big win for Thune.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is a really huge moment for the senator from South Dakota, who has spent the last several years being the Republican whip. That is the number two job under Mitch McConnell in the United States Senate Republican Conference.

But it is also a big moment because it shows that there is a streak of independent senators in the Republican Conference who want to have an elected leader who knows the way that the Senate works, but also hasn't always had the closest or coziest relationship with Donald Trump.

Now, he's done a lot of work over the last several months to repair that relationship. He went down to Mar-a-Lago in the spring. He also, according to people close to him, has had several conversations with the president in recent months and weeks as he was campaigning and crisscrossing the country, trying to get the Republicans elected to take back control of the Senate.

But there was a time where he called for Donald Trump to pull out of the race in 2016 after controversial comments. He also said that Trump's plan after he lost to Joe Biden to contest the election was going to go down like a shot dog. That led Donald Trump to try and get Kristi Noem, another South Dakotan, into a race to try to fight him for his Senate spot.

And she, of course, did not go through with that. But that just shows you that these two men have not always been close. And, obviously, that is going to be a big factor in the months ahead. But Thune has been telling his colleagues in recent days that he is committed to moving forward with Donald Trump's agenda.

He was instrumental in passing the 2017 tax bill. They are going to be having to do a lot of new work on that legislation because many of those proposals are going to expire at the end of this year.

SANCHEZ: A big development on Capitol Hill.

Lauren Fox, thank you so much -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Let's turn now to the House side. It's a big day for congressional Republicans. Their leadership vote is set for next hour. And Speaker Mike Johnson is widely expected to be chosen to continue in the top job.

Earlier, they welcomed Donald Trump back to Washington during a closed-door meeting.

And my next guest was there in the room, Wisconsin Congressman Tom Tiffany. He is a member of the House Freedom Caucus.

Sir, can you tell us a little bit about what the president-elect said to your conference this morning?

REP. TOM TIFFANY (R-WI): Yes, I think it was very straightforward, Brianna, in regards to, here's what we accomplished.

But I thought it was mainly a thank you, a thank you to our leadership, a thank you to our conference for the work that they did in helping him get elected. And he pointed out a few of the key people in his administration, including Susie Wiles.

But I think it was primarily just a thank you and let's get together and let's get some work done for the American people.

KEILAR: So, Congressman Chip Roy, your colleague, has said that there would likely be a challenger to Mike Johnson for the speakership, of course, with the expectation Republicans officially retain the House, which they seem very possibly likely going to do here.

And yet no challenger has emerged over the course of this meeting today. Did Trump shut that down when he told your conference that he's with Johnson all of the way?

TIFFANY: I think it was primarily driven, Brianna, by Mike Johnson bringing back the majority.

I mean, this is how it works in politics. You attain the majority or you bring back the majority, it's pretty hard to kick out the leader. I have seen it both at the state level and now here in Washington, D.C.

KEILAR: So I do want to turn now to a different election. It's the Senate race in your state. You have Republican Eric Hovde, who has not conceded to Senator Tammy Baldwin. He's claiming irregularities, which election officials vehemently reject, and also the Trump campaign does not allege. He won Wisconsin, of course.

Should Hovde concede?

TIFFANY: You know, 20 -- I think it's a 27,000-vote difference. That's tough to be able to make up.

But I don't know all the facts behind what the Hovde team is seeing there. So I would reserve comment, and I haven't talked to Eric Hovde about it, but I reserve comment to what they are seeing that may be challengeable, but it is a big margin to make up.

KEILAR: So you are, of course, on House Judiciary, on the House Judiciary Committee, and your chairman has asked special counsel Jack Smith, who has been, of course, prosecuting Trump in two federal cases, to preserve all of his records related to those cases.

Do you expect that your committee will be calling Jack Smith to testify?

TIFFANY: You know, I don't know. I'd have to consult with Chairman Jordan about that to see if he does have that in the plans.

[13:25:03]

But, if it's appropriate, we should. I mean, one of the best things that has happened since Donald Trump came on the scene in 2016 is getting transparency for the American people. And this should be part of it, where let's find out what has happened behind the scenes, because now, all of a sudden, Jack Smith has folded up his tent.

So if you had a good case six months ago, why don't you have a good case now? Let's see what is behind what Jack Smith was attempting to do.

KEILAR: Well, you can't prosecute a sitting president. I think that's really what it comes down to, right?

TIFFANY: Well, why would he go after the leading presidential candidate then? I think he had a dubious case, and he knows it.

KEILAR: Well, it was a tight race.

TIFFANY: And he knows it. It was -- it was politically driven, and now he's gone. But we should find out what's going -- let's have full transparency.

Regardless of who it is, Brianna, let's have full transparency of what happened and let the American people see what happened behind the curtain.

KEILAR: So what would you ask him?

TIFFANY: What would I ask Jack? I'd ask for -- the first thing you do is what Chairman Jordan is doing, is, let's see the full information that's out there. Turn over your e-mails, preserve your records, let us review them.

And then we will develop the questions from there.

KEILAR: So the government -- yes, go ahead.

TIFFANY: And, Brianna, if he -- if he has nothing to hide, if he has nothing to hide, you should just produce all of it.

KEILAR: Well, he's certainly been told to do that by your chairman, so we will be waiting to see what does happen.

The government is set to shut down December 20 again. It does seem like this happens quite a bit, sir. Should Speaker Johnson try to fund the government through September of next year or just get the whole of 2025 taken care of, which, of course, would require working with Democrats in this Congress?

TIFFANY: It is a process that has not been working very well, where it's omnibus bills and continuing resolutions.

I'm not a big fan of continuing resolutions, but I do think you push this off into the new year. I don't know if you go as far as September, but you push it off into the new year. The American people spoke on November 5, new Congress, new president. Let them decide what the next budget looks like.

KEILAR: So, if not until September, until when, do you think?

TIFFANY: Well, I don't know what that magic date is. Maybe it's March or April, something like that. Let us produce a budget early in 2025 and put that in place.

KEILAR: Congressman Tom Tiffany, thanks for taking the time for us. We do appreciate it.

TIFFANY: Yes, thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: And coming up: It's a move that stunned Washington. We're going to talk about how president-elect Trump's choice for secretary of defense could shake up the military, if confirmed, and the serious concerns about what Trump's pick has said in the past.

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