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Trump Taps Gaetz for Attorney General; Investigating GLP-1 Drugs; Jeh Johnson is Interviewed about Trump's Picks. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 14, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:30:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: President-elect Donald Trump stunned Capitol Hill and the Justice Department when he tapped Matt Gaetz to be his attorney general. This as the House Ethics Committee was about to vote on releasing its ethics probe on Gaetz's alleged sexual misconduct, which he had denied. The DOJ ha also investigated Gaetz for alleged sex trafficking, but never charged him.

One Justice Department employee told CNN, the shock is intense.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz has more from Washington for us.

So, I just want to make sure I have this straight. As the attorney general, could he actually have access to the investigation against him with names and everything in it?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, Sara. As the attorney general, Matt Gaetz, if he is confirmed, he would be the person in control of investigative files that were so secretive even the House Ethics Committee were unable - was unable to get them from the Justice Department.

[08:35:03]

Files that would have details from women who were ultimately testifying against him in that secret proceeding. It didn't result in charges, but there were cooperating witnesses against Gaetz.

And this just highlights how unusual this would be, unprecedented in many ways, to have someone like this coming into the Justice Department if he is concerned - if he is concerned.

The other thing about Gaetz, Sara, very little experience as a lawyer and certainly none as a prosecutor.

Ty Cobb, who is a very prominent lawyer in Washington, and someone who even had a very powerful role in Donald Trump's own White House as a lawyer in the previous time Trump was in office, here's how he put it last night speaking with Erin Burnett.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TY COBB, FORMER TRUMP WHTIE HOUSE LAWYER: Matt Gaetz is just simply unqualified, both academically, professionally, ethically, morally, and experientially. He has no business being in the conversation.

This is a choice that is contemptuous. I think anybody who's served in the Justice Department historically, and most of the people that are there today, you know, are deeply saddened by this and it diminishes the pride with which they associate themselves with the Department of Justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: So, Gaetz is a person who has very publicly been opposed to the cases against Donald Trump, obviously, the investigation that he faced. Those, he believed, were political in nature. But much of the department's work isn't that. The attorney general is the top law enforcement officer that has prosecutors across the country in more than 90 offices bringing cases in court on behalf of the United States, where judges are needing to take them seriously, the top law enforcement officer of the United States.

Sara.

SIDNER: Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much for all your reporting there.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now, Bakari Sellers, CNN political commentator, and Lance Trover, former spokesperson for North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum's 2024 presidential campaign.

Katelyn and Sara just talked about Matt Gaetz and questions over his qualifications. That's one thing. This now fully moves into the political sphere, Bakari. This is a test for the new Senate, which just named its new leadership yesterday in John Thune.

How do you think they will handle this, Bakari, given that so many Republicans have questions about Matt Gaetz?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, this is probably going to be a recess appointment. They'll handle it the same way they handle everything else, which is to duck and dodge and cower to Donald Trump.

Look, Matt Gaetz and Tulsi Gabbard have no business getting appointed to the positions that they're in. I find it a great deal of irony in the fact that people voted for Donald Trump so that they could get the cost of eggs and milk to be lower, not whatever this is.

I mean it's kind of obscene to actually think about Matt Gaetz being over the attorney general - over the Department of Justice and being attorney general. And, you know, for Democrats, this is a lesson.

I remember Democrats, we pushed Al Franklin out of the United States Senate because of a - of a wayward picture he took and the outrage around that picture. And somebody who was accused of sexual misconduct, Republicans, make him attorney general.

BERMAN: Bakari just mentioned that he thinks Republicans will, I think the word you used, Bakari, was cower to Donald Trump.

Senator Markwayne -

SELLERS: I used cower - yes, cower.

BERMAN: OK.

Markwayne Mullin, senator from Oklahoma, has, I think - I think shifted his position on Matt Gaetz. A year ago, I want you to listen to what he said to our Manu Raju about Gaetz. And then listen to what he says yesterday to Jake Tapper after the announcement of the nomination.

Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK) (October 4, 2023): We had all seen the videos he was showing on the House floor, that all of us had walked away, of the girls that he had slept with. He'd brag about how he would crush ED medicine and - and - and chase it with - with an energy drink so he could go all night.

MULLIN: I - I completely trust President Trump's decision-making on this one. But at the same time, he's got to come to Congress and sell himself.

And if he can, then we'll - we'll go through the confirmation process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, the ED medicine, just so everyone knows, he was talking about erectile dysfunction medicine that Gaetz was bragging about on the House floor.

All right, Lance, how do you expand that transformation for Markwayne Mullin?

LANCE TROVER, FORMER SPOKESPERSON, GOV. DOUG BURGUM'S 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Well, look, I think if there was anybody that's aligned with Donald Trump it's the vote - the Republican voters out there. So, a note of caution to any Republican thinking of crossing him on some of these appointments. I would - I would just begin there. I don't think it's cowering, I think it's an understanding that Republicans are solid with Donald Trump.

But look, I know it's early. I'm going to bring up a sore spot, though, for Bakari, and that's the result of last week's election. And the voters spoke very clearly last week that they want Donald Trump to come into town and take a sledgehammer to everything going on here in Washington D.C.

[08:40:05] It wasn't just about eggs. Yes, that was a very important issue, the cost of living out there and immigration, but it is about shaking up the system here in Washington.

And so I think the question for Democrats is, are they going to continue this hair on fire, world is ending approach with every single one of Donald Trump's decisions, or is this president-elect going to be allowed to fill out his cabinet, as every other president is allowed to do?

And there's going to be a process. It's going to go through the Senate. And there's going to be a vote on that. But it seems to me, based off of last week's vote, that the voters are looking for a little latitude here with the - with the president-elect.

BERMAN: Lance, what happens if there's a confirmation hearing? Do you think Matt Gaetz will be asked about this House ethics report that was due out in two days? Do you think Matt Gaetz could withstand a Senate confirmation hearing?

TROVER: That's what confirmation hearings are all about. Of course he's going to get asked. He's going to get asked about every single issue that goes on out there by Democrats and Republicans. That's the whole point of a confirmation hearing. And that's the process that I'm talking about. And that's the issue here. Every single decision that -

BERMAN: OK. OK, Lance - Lance -

TROVER: Yes. Yes.

BERMAN: Will you guarantee - do you say - without a confirmation hearing, will you sit here and say you would not support a Matt Gaetz nomination?

TROVER: Well, it doesn't matter what I support, it matters what the - the United -

BERMAN: Yes, it does. It matters - it matters - it matters what Republican activists -

TROVER: No, no, it absolutely - no.

BERMAN: I want to know what your opinion is. Republican activist, do you think that without a Senate confirmation, without a Senate confirmation, that it would not be a worthy or valid nomination?

TROVER: That's a decision for the Senate to make and that is a decision for the president-elect to make. I mean that's why we have a process in place, and to understand it.

But I'm going back to what the voters spoke to last week in terms of, they knew exactly what they were getting with Donald Trump. And it - yes, it was about the cost of living, it was about immigration, but it was also about changing the way Washington works. And I don't know that a bunch of talking heads and a bunch of elitists

here in Washington, D.C., saying he's not good is going to sway it with others. I think they're expecting for the president to get a little latitude over the course of the next several weeks for him to put his cabinet together.

BERMAN: Some of the - some of the way -

TROVER: And then it will go to the Senate, and it will go to a confirmation hearing, and then - and we'll see how that process plays out.

BERMAN: I don't know if it will go to the Senate or go to a confirmation hearing. And part of the way Washington works, part of it, is written in the Constitution with advice and consent for nominations and the like.

TROVER: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

BERMAN: OK.

TROVER: That's one - yes, absolutely.

BERMAN: Because if there's a recess appointment, it may happen without advice and correct, correct, Bakari?

SELLERS: Correct.

Yes, I mean, I - I just - this is the - look, Republicans won the election. And we are - we are squarely in the FO part of FAFO, right? And so I'm just sitting back and watching kind of the chaos that people forgot came with Donald Trump. And Donald Trump has this kind of amazing ability to have great men like Lance have to come on TV and defend Matt Gaetz. I don't think Lance would defend Matt Gaetz at a bar, but he has to defend him on international TV.

And that's the position that Donald Trump puts his friends and allies in. There's no way that the three of us honestly believe that someone who has accusations and going through a House ethics probe of sexual misconduct deserves to be attorney general of the United States. And we can't even say or articulate that there must be at least, at bare minimum, a confirmation hearing to make him that - to put him in that position.

But the thing that I do have to say Lance is absolutely correct about is that this is what the voters asked for. This is what America wanted. They wanted this level of chaos. And if they forgot what Donald Trump was about, these next 18 months are going to be a hell of a reminder of what Donald Trump is about.

Now you have someone who is accused of sexual misconduct as attorney general, you have somebody who is a Bashir al-Assad and Vladimir Putin apologist over DNI. I mean, and a Fox News anchor as secretary of Defense. This is what you wanted. This is what you get.

BERMAN: Bakari Sellers, Lance Trover - TROVER: This is - this is what I'm saying, you can continue to cast aspersions on these people, but I don't think that's what the voters are looking for right now.

BERMAN: Well, we will see and we will see if the Senate exercises its constitutional prerogative.

Bakari Sellers, Lance Trover, great to see you both. Thank you.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Perfect summary is, we will see and we will see is exactly right.

Also this morning, a closer look at the medicines people are starting to call miracle drugs. GLP-1 medications like Ozempic, Wegovy, Mounjaro, have helped millions get their weight under control. A big question has been what the long-term effects are and who should and shouldn't use the meds.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta just wrapped a year-long investigation into this. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What it did help me was not have a whole lot of thoughts about food. My cravings went away.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Those voices in her head that had made her crave food, experts call it food chatter, they were silenced. And that is part of the magic of these new medications.

[08:45:03]

GLP-1 seems to act in a way that no other known hormone can.

Here's how it seems to work. Every time you eat, all sorts of hormones are released, like GLP-1. They are called post-nutrient hormones. They travel here, to the hypothalamus in the brain, to tell you that you are full, or satiated. They also travel over here, to the pancreas, to kick out more insulin to help absorb the energy you just consumed. And also over here, to your gut, to slow down the emptying, allowing you to better digest your food.

In so many ways, it seems like the perfect hormone to help you stop eating as much.

Seemed perfect for Rashida (ph). In that first year she lost 100 pounds. It changed her life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: It changed her life. And this man has changed mine. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So good to be here.

BOLDUAN: So, this is - you went deep on this. You spent months investigating this. How has - how have these drugs changed our and your understanding of obesity as a disease?

GUPTA: I think one of the biggest things was the idea of thinking this - of this as a brain disease. For some people, you know, when they eat, they don't feel full, Kate. They have this thing called food chatter that's constantly happening in their brain. And these hormones that you just saw there tend to affect a part of the brain called the hypothalamus, which is your satiation center. After you eat, you should feel full. Some people with obesity, they just don't have that. It's kind of remarkable. Even as they're eating, they're already thinking about their next meal. If their pantry is empty, they start to get anxiety and have to go to the grocery store. It was so interesting for a year spending time with people who deal with this.

The second thing I'll tell you quickly is that, this is a disease that affects 40 percent of the country and we - the way that we measure it is still so basic, BMI. And you can take a look at sort of the way that that's measured. It's your weight and your height basically divided. It's an easy measurement, but it's - but it's very fundamental.

So, what I think a lot of doctors are starting to do is say, can we add something else that's a basic screening test, just taking a tape measure and measuring your waist around the lowest part, the smallest part of your waist, around the belly button, and your hip, and basically finding that ratio.

If you have a high BMI and you have a waist to hip ratio that you can see there on the screen that's too high, that could be a concern as well.

So, you know, and how we measure obesity, what exactly it does to the body -

BOLDUAN: And how we've tried to fix it. And when you think about the surgeries that you can get when it comes to trying to attack obesity -

GUPTA: Yes.

BOLDUAN: That's doing nothing to what you were talking about -

GUPTA: Right.

BOLDUAN: The desire and the lack of satiation that people get when they're eating. It's just starving you and making you feel - making your stomach feel full.

GUPTA: And that's why we see, even with people who have some of these pretty invasive procedures, they have these recurrences.

BOLDUAN: Fascinating.

GUPTA: Because the body doesn't sort of react. BOLDUAN: Real quick, what are - one question has been the long-term

effects of using of the meds.

GUPTA: Yes.

BOLDUAN: What are you finding?

GUPTA: So, I'll tell you two things. As much as we've heard about these medications over the last few years, they've actually been around for quite some time. So, we do have some long-term data on them. There were drugs approved more than a decade ago. So, they've been following those folks.

I think one of the biggest concerns is that when you lose weight, you're losing not just fat mass but you're losing muscle mass as well. So, if you're not doing things to maintain your muscle mass, especially in older people, that could be a significant concern. A significant concern for falls, lowering life expectancy. So, you have to change your lifestyle on these drugs.

More than half the people who start these medications stop taking them within 12 weeks. People thought these were going to be lifelong drugs for the majority of people. Not the case.

Side effects, other things, people may develop a tolerance to the medications, sometimes they just don't like the way that they're making them feel, so they stop taking them.

BOLDUAN: Fascinating. I cannot wait to see how - what you found. I mean -

GUPTA: I learned a lot.

BOLDUAN: That's really, really great.

Sanjay, thank you so much for coming in.

GUPTA: You got it. Yes.

BOLDUAN: I said as if Sanjay needed more brains, he brings an extra one just to show off.

GUPTA: I never leave home without it.

BOLDUAN: I mean, like, literally, Sanjay, stop rubbing it in my face! Please don't forget, Dr. Sanjay Gupta will be back later this week to answer your questions about weight loss drugs. So, head over to cnn.com and submit your questions.

John.

BERMAN: Always good to have an extra brain.

All right, a new inflation report just out. You are going to want to hear it, and you might not like it. And then brace yourselves because this news may shake you to the core.

Scientists have discovered the world's largest coral. What should they call it? Gargantu-coral (ph)? Mega-coral (ph)? Coral-palooza (ph)?

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[08:54:08]

SIDNER: The president-elect chose now former Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz to be his attorney general, in the same week as a House Ethics Committee planned to meet and vote on releasing a report looking into allegations of sexual misconduct and illicit drug use against Gaetz. Gaetz has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing, and his resignation from the House effectively ends the probe. It's now unclear if the report will ever become public.

Joining me now is former secretary of Homeland Security and former general counsel of the Department of Defense, Jeh Johnson.

We are so happy to have you here this morning -

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Thank you.

SIDNER: Because you've been through some of these - some of these congressional grillings, if you will -

JOHNSON: Many.

SIDNER: Right, when it comes to these positions you've had.

I wanted to talk to you first about Representative Matt Gaetz. He's now up for this job of attorney general. If it's confirmed, what do you see happening?

JOHNSON: Well, first, I have to say, in the 50 years I've been observing American politics, this nominee is probably the least qualified I've ever seen for the position nominated.

[08:55:11]

I - when I first saw the news, I thought it was a Russian hoax, or a joke.

It sends - to nominate for the position of the chief law enforcement officer of the United States, someone who has at one point himself been the subject or the target of a criminal investigation, who is the subject of an open House Ethics investigation, has the appearance that our government is not devoted to the rule of law. And my - my sincere hope is that the U.S. Senate takes seriously its constitutional duty to advise and consent on this presidential nomination.

I know a number of Senate Republicans, who I respect, who I believe and hope they will take their constitutional duty to scrutinize this nomination carefully. Put aside Collins and Murkowski, who I know are going to be skeptical of this. People like John Hoven, people like John Cornyn, Chuck Grassley, my friend Lindsey Graham, I know that they understand what the advice and content process is all about. I've been through it myself three times.

SIDNER: What is that process like?

JOHNSON: They turn your life upside down, looking at everything. And with respect to the nomination of Matt Gaetz and all of the other nominations by this president-elect, I hope that the Senate takes its duty seriously, does not turn its back on its obligations by going into recess, and scrutinizes this nomination in particular very carefully.

SIDNER: Do you think that this points to potential retaliation? Matt Gaetz has - and we have some reporting that he is basically going to burn it all down from the inside out and heads are going to roll.

JOHNSON: He said he wants to abolish the Department of Justice itself.

SIDNER: Right.

JOHNSON: It certainly has that feel. It certainly has the feel of retribution, retaliation. And what's interesting to me is, I've - I've heard from a number of people now inside the Department of Justice. The first reaction with a nomination like this is to walk out. Literally walk out. But I believe those in the Department of Justice, committed to the rule of law, committed to law enforcement, are going to double down in the face of this and rededicate themselves to their jobs, enforcing the law in this country.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about another nomination, Tulsi Gabbard, for the job of Director of National Intelligence, meaning she oversees all of the intelligence agencies.

JOHNSON: Yes.

SIDNER: All, I think, 18 of them. She has spread Russian propaganda. She has challenged the intelligence on whether President Assad used chemical weapons, which the intelligence said he had certainly done. And now she is in this position to potentially head the high intelligence agency over all intelligence agencies.

JOHNSON: Yes.

SIDNER: What does this - what does this mean to you?

JOHNSON: Well, I'm going to surprise you a little bit. I don't think that it is an absolute prerequisite that the Director of National Intelligence be someone of the intelligence community. I also believe that on occasion it's a good thing to be skeptical of the intelligence that we're provided. Those of us who are in a position of making serious decisions, policymakers.

I have received intelligence that I've been skeptical of, and I've asked the hard questions. I've asked to speak to the briefers directly who wrote the report. So, being skeptical of what the intelligence community produces can be

a good thing. And I'm thinking of the intelligence leading up to the Iraq War, for example.

But again, I believe that the Senate has a constitutional obligation to advise and consent on this nomination and scrutinize it carefully.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about another controversial pick. Fox anchor Pete Hegseth. He did serve in the Army National Guard.

JOHNSON: Yes.

SIDNER: But now he is up for secretary of Defense.

JOHNSON: Yes.

SIDNER: And, you know, he's said a few things. He has lobbied for people who are accused of war crimes in Afghanistan.

JOHNSON: Yes.

SIDNER: He recently said that women do not belong in combat roles. But you have said that you give him the benefit of the doubt. Why?

JOHNSON: I give him the benefit of the doubt on - on - on - on at least the nomination at this point because here's somebody who is well-educated, obviously intelligent, was in financial services, was in the Wall Street community for a while, could have made a lot of money, chose to leave that, put on the uniform of our country and see combat. So, I give him the benefit of the doubt for that reason. Being - with all due respect, being a cable news host does not necessarily qualify you to be secretary of Defense.

[09:00:02]

SIDNER: It certainly does not.

JOHNSON: And so, again, this is a nomination where the Senate has