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Trump stuns with Gaetz Pick; GOP Senators Divided over Gaetz; Premature Birthrate in U.S. Still High; Gaetz Pick Sends Shockwaves Through Washington. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired November 14, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: secretary of Defense.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: It certainly does not.

JOHNSON: And so, again, this is a nomination where the Senate has a duty to scrutinize the things he has said, the positions he has taken, the positions he has taken with respect to those who have been found responsible for war crimes.

You know, one of the reasons our U.S. military - and I worked alongside the U.S. military at the Pentagon for years. One of the reasons it is the greatest and strongest military on earth is not just because of our raw power, but because of the military's dedication to the rule of law, dedication to adhering to the rules.

SIDNER: Worried it's going to be politicized, yes or no, when it comes to this idea from Donald Trump that he wants to remove, quote/unquote, "woke generals"?

JOHNSON: Well, I'm not even sure what that means. I can only tell you that in the years I worked alongside three and four star generals at the Pentagon, I didn't know their politics, I didn't care what their politics were. I didn't ask. They didn't tell me. It was, here is the mission, how do we get it done? Simple as that.

SIDNER: And do you think the litmus test is being put out there by Trump to politicize it?

JOHNSON: Yes, I do. And this signal, this so-called warrior board sends to - to have outsiders vet in (ph) three and four star generals to me has the - the sound and the feel and the smell of a litmus test exactly. And it's a litmus test that it's sending the message, are you with the program? And when it comes to vetting the upper echelons of our U.S. military, that's not a healthy thing.

SIDNER: Jeh Johnson, I so appreciate you coming in and discussing these important issues with us. I appreciate you.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

SIDNER: A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Totally unqualified, unfit professionally, really lacking in moral character. That's John Bolton's reaction this morning to Donald Trump's pick of Matt Gaetz as attorney general. But this is what Americans voted for this election. Or is it?

Now also we have new reporting about other big changes that could be coming to the White House. The president-elect set to potentially allow MAGA aligned voices into the Briefing Room.

And a damning report from the non-profit March of Dimes. Premature births in the United States are at an all-time high, with thousands of women facing inadequate prenatal care.

I'm Kate Bolduan, with Sara Sidner and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SIDNER: Loyalty or lunacy? This morning, new fallout as some Republican lawmakers dance around their divisions over one of the newest members of President-elect Trump's MAGA dream team.

And Trump has tapped the new former Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz to be his attorney general, which means Trump now wants the Senate to confirm a man that had been under a sex trafficking investigation to take over the very law enforcement agency that conducted that investigation but never charged him.

CNN's senior justice correspondent Evan Perez is leading us off this hour.

What are the latest reactions that you are hearing coming in from inside the DOJ?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, there's a lot of shock and a lot of concern about what exactly Matt Gaetz plans to do. Is he going to do to the Justice Department, to the FBI, and all of the agencies under there what he has done to the House of Representatives. You remember, of course, he led the push to oust Speaker McCarthy and there were days of chaos while Republicans were infighting about trying to find a new speaker. That's the kind of thing that would lead to a lot of concern if that's the kind of leadership that you have at the - at the - at the head of the Justice Department.

But let's hear from some of the people in Congress when they first heard this because shocking is definitely the word I heard a lot yesterday.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm very troubled.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What about Matt Gaetz? Do you support him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a confirmation process.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know yet. I'll have to think about that one.

RAJU: I mean do you have any concerns about him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll see.

RAJU: Do you think Matt Gaetz is confirmable?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll find out, won't we?

RAJU: Senator Kennedy, what do you think of Matt Gaetz as attorney general?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy Thanksgiving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: You see them trying to avoid discussing this nomination that the president-elect has now announced.

But let's remind people why there's this reaction. The new potential attorney general, Matt Gaetz, has been under investigation by the Justice Department, as well as by the House Ethics Committee. The Justice Department, in the end, ended up not charging him. But here are the allegations.

He was being investigated for sexual misconduct.

[09:05:01]

It was a sex trafficking investigation. Illicit drug use. Accepting improper gifts. Obstructing the investigation.

And then, once the Justice Department ended its investigation, the House Ethics Committee has been - has been investigating. Their report, Sara, was due to be released perhaps as soon as later this week, tomorrow perhaps, but the - the congressman has now resigned, which means that that investigation is over and we don't know whether that report will ever see the light of day.

I will mention one last thing, which is, the background check that Matt Gaetz would, under normal circumstances, would be subjected to, right? The Senate will require that as part of the confirmation process. But Senate Republicans could decide otherwise. They could decide they don't want that.

And then the other thing is, how does he get a security clearance? Well, President Trump could just order this - the clearance to be given to him. He's done this before with Jared Kushner. So, the lanes are clear, if the Senate Republicans and the incoming president want it to be. SIDNER: Evan Perez, thank you for all that reporting this morning. We

will see what happens.

PEREZ: Sure.

SIDNER: John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now, Jim Schultz, CNN legal commentator, former Trump White House lawyer, and Elliot Williams, CNN legal analyst and formal federal prosecutor.

And, friends, I want to talk about the Constitution because its 9:06 a.m. and our viewers are demanding it.

Also, because there are people legitimately saying there could be a constitutional crisis, I think maybe small c, maybe big c on crisis over this. Why?

Well, in the Constitution, Article 2, Section 2, Clause 2, says that in order for a president to get appointments, "he shall nominate and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the supreme court and all other officers of the United States."

Elliot, an attorney general is an "all other officer of the United States." What has that meant for the last, oh, 200 plus years of America being a country, the advice and consent?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's very important. And, you know, John, it's - it's no more important, not just to the viewers of this show, but to the 100 senators. They regard this role as probably their most important role. They take it really seriously.

For instance, Mitch McConnell won an award from the Irving Kristol Institute or, you know, a conservative organization this week. And in his remarks fired a shot at former - President Trump saying how important the advice and consent process is.

Now, look, John, there is a process whereby if the Senate goes into recess, if it leaves, then the president can just put his people in without getting them Senate confirmation.

I think that's what President Trump is baiting the Senate to do here. This was a shot across the bow to - to the incoming senators, and particularly to John Thune, who was just elected majority leader. This is a big problem, not just for the Justice Department, but for the senators. They have a big choice to make.

BERMAN: Elliot read ahead a little bit in the book that I'm trying to write with this segment, Jim.

Recess appointments. Now, there's one way of doing that, that would require the Senate deciding to go on recess. John Thune is going to be the Senate majority leader, just got picked yesterday. If he has three or four or five or six Republican senators who don't want Matt Gaetz to be attorney general, do you think he's going to want to go on recess?

JIM SCHULTZ, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: I don't see this Senate - one thing the Senate does is protect the Senate power. The legislative branch tends to protect its own power against the executive branch at every turn they can, because the Senate, that institution, those 100 senators, it's a club. They very much want to protect that club. And I don't see them going into - in and allowing this president to have a recess - have recess appointments for some - for a candidate as controversial as Matt Gaetz. I just don't see it happening.

BERMAN: So, you think that John Thune would try to keep that from happening. And how - how do you think he feels this morning, Jim? It was like minutes, minutes after he gets picked as the Senate majority leader, Donald Trump says, congratulations, and here's this. Here's Matt Gaetz to deal with.

SCHULTZ: So, I think at this point it's for John Thune, it is, as someone just said in the news the other day, buckle up. And I think that's - that's the right thing - that - that's exactly right, he needs to buckle up because this is just the beginning. I think Trump is - Trump is what he's doing is, if you sit in his shoes, which is hard to do, and try to think like he thinks, he's sitting here saying, what was the most pushback? Where did he have the most problems? Who came at him the most when he was president? The intelligence community, the Justice Department, in his view, and the Defense Department. All in his view, that's where it is.

So, what is he going to do there? He's going to flood it with people who are going to - who he thinks are going to carry out his agenda.

[09:10:06]

And in this instance, without regard to what - what the Senate - what he - what the Senate perception of that's going to be. I think this is going to be one of those moments where the Senate is going to stand up and say, no, we have a job to do, advise and consent. We're going to do it. And they're going to take Matt Gaetz to task, and for that matter, every other nominee that Trump puts forward are going to be taken to task. And historically, there's always a couple that don't make it through the process.

BERMAN: All right, that is very true. That is very true.

Elliot, that was a good segue to sort of this option three here, which is Article 2, Section 3, the president, "he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper."

This would be maybe not just a break glass but break Constitution moment, Elliot. And it's never been tested with a cabinet appointment.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

BERMAN: The idea that the president could unilaterally force a recess to basically put his cabinet in place. WILLIAMS: Yes, let's go to a constitutional law classroom right now,

John. And the most important clause in there is, in case of a disagreement between the houses. What this would require is the Senate and the House to, in a sense, talk beforehand and agree to have a disagreement about this vote. So, this would require some, for lack of a better word, collusion between Mike Johnson, the speaker, and John Thune. They would have to get on board with this and give Donald Trump the opportunity to, in effect suspend normal order in the United States Senate - in the United States Senate and then start putting his people in,

John, if you know "Star Wars," this is Emperor Palpatine stuff, and I mean this. This is suspending the rules of the legislature in order to push sort of an agenda through. And again, you know, folks can make the argument that this is what the people voted for. They voted for change.

BERMAN: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And that's fine. But I don't know if change is a guy who's been investigated for sex offenses being attorney general of the United States. That - that simply cannot be what Americans voted for.

BERMAN: I will - I will say that "Politico" said it was more "Star Trek" than "Star Wars." And I'm not going to - I may mispronounce this. They're the Kobayashi Maru exercise wherefore John Thune there's no way to win.

Jim Schultz, Elliot Williams, thank you both very much.

Kate.

WILLIAMS: Thanks.

BOLDUAN: A quote, "it is a travesty." That's the reaction to the new report out this hour on the premature birthrate in this country right now.

And the American dream becoming tougher to achieve. How much you need now in order to afford owning and maintaining a home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:10]

BOLDUAN: New this morning, the non-profit March of Dimes is giving the United States a D plus. That is basically a failing grade. And this has to do with the premature death rate - birth - pardon me, premature birthrate in this country right now. And this is the third year in a row that that that birthrate has remained at an all-time high.

CNN's Jacqueline Howard has much more on this. She's been looking at this report.

And, Jacqueline, what are you learning? JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Yes, Kate. Well, we know for

sure that the numbers are high. About one in 10 babies born here in the United States are born too early. According to March of Dimes, when you look at data from last year, the preterm birth rate was 10.4 percent. So, 10.4 percent of births were preterm last year. And we know that preterm birth is a leading cause of infant death. So, this is heartbreaking data.

We also know, when you look city by city, there are regional differences. The top 100 U.S. cities with the highest numbers of babies born, among them, these three cities had the highest preterm birthrate, Detroit, Cleveland and Mobile, Alabama. And then the three cities with the lowest preterm birth rate were Ramapo, New York, Irvine, California, and Gilbert, Arizona.

So, this is a complex issue but it's one that's ongoing and it's one that's heartbreaking to watch, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, absolutely heartbreaking. Who's most at risk?

HOWARD: Yes, some of the risk factors for preterm birth include having certain medical conditions like high blood pressure, being older than 35 during your pregnancy, having twins or triplets, smoking, experiencing high stress. But we do know that there are steps people can take to reduce the risk of preterm birth.

Number one, advocates say we need to make sure that all mothers are getting adequate prenatal care during their pregnancies. We know that working with a doula or a midwife can reduce that risk. And then for some pregnancies, taking a daily low-dose aspirin can help reduce risk. So, this is something you want to talk to - talk with your provider about and talk to them about your risks and whether that's an intervention that could benefit you.

BOLDUAN: And this fold in exactly to a discussion you and I have been having for quite some time, which folds into, a lot of women do not have adequate access to pre and post-natal care -

HOWARD: Exactly.

BOLDUAN: Which fold in exactly to what we're talking about here.

HOWARD: Yes.

BOLDUAN: The united states, I believe it is like the worst on the list of industrialized nations at pre and post-natal care for women and babies.

HOWARD: Yes. Yes.

BOLDUAN: So, fold it all together.

HOWARD: It's all interconnected.

BOLDUAN: Huge crisis still.

HOWARD: Right.

BOLDUAN: Jacqueline, thank you.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, how does a bear outfit and insurance fraud go together? We shall explain that to you, ahead.

And as Donald Trump rewrites the rules, new reporting this morning that also applies to press briefings.

[09:19:58]

We will give you a look at what to expect, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, this morning, it is not clear if former Congressman - former now Congressman Matt Gaetz will get the 50 votes needed for Senate confirmation. Again, it is a Senate matter, but you get a sense of doubts from Republicans from the House side. Ohio Congressman, a Republican, Max Miller told "Axios," quote, "Gaetz has a better shot at having dinner with Queen Elizabeth II than being confirmed by the Senate."

[09:25:01]

Let's get to CNN's Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill.

Lauren, I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but Queen Elizabeth is no longer with us.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BERMAN: So, Max Miller is saying that Gaetz has a zero percent chance of getting confirmed.

FOX: Yes, the other -

BERMAN: I'm not sure that that's the case.

FOX: The other piece of that news there, John, for House Republicans is they don't have a say in who gets confirmed in the United States Senate. But, you know, there were a lot of Republicans last night who were also surprised, shocked, as well as concerned about this nomination.

Senator Lisa Murkowski, a Republican, told our colleague, Manu Raju, that this was just not a serious choice for this department. Also we heard yesterday from Senator Joni Ernst, who told me as she was walking onto the floor that this - Gaetz is going to have to work really hard to actually get confirmed. Here were some of the other reactions we saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I don't know yet. I'll have to think about that one.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you have any concerns about it?

GRAHAM: We'll see.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I was shocked that he has been nominated. If the nomination proceeds, I'm sure that there will be an extensive background check by the FBI and public hearings and a lot of questions asked.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): I like Matt a lot. I know him very well. And presidents are entitled to have the people that they want in these key positions.

RAJU: Do you think Matt Gaetz is confirmable?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll find out, won't we?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And, John, Republicans have a larger majority in the United States Senate than they've had in a while, but they still can only afford to lose a handful of votes on the floor. So, there's going to be a lot of work ahead. That, of course, assumes that Matt Gaetz can make it out of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He will be vetted. There will be a hearing. Those members will also have to vote on whether or not to advance Gaetz's nomination.

John.

BERMAN: Look, if there is a hearing, that could just be explosive.

Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill, thank you very much.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, joining me now are our political commentators, Democratic Strategist Paul Begala and Republican strategist Shermichael Singleton.

Thank you, gentlemen, for being here.

All right, so we've got some new reporting from our Kayla Tausche from a Trump team insider saying that people being in a state of shock was the goal. That's exactly what the MAGA gang wants.

Shermichael, the Matt Gaetz nomination definitely fits that bill. Is this a serious choice or do you see a major fight happening and there's someone in the wings?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look - I think that the president-elect has to decide, Sara, if he wants to expense any political capital on this. And by that I mean you can't afford to lose I believe around four or five votes, if this were to make it out of committee. And so if he really wants Gaetz, then I expect, you know, he'll begin the process of making calls to Republicans on the Judiciary Committee so that it can obviously go before the entire Senate. And he'll probably continue to do the work there.

But I think, Sara, a more bigger and fascinating component of this from my perspective as a conservative is, what exactly is Donald Trump's ethos as it pertains to the DOJ and prosecutors writ large. And I think what this signals is that the former president - or the president-elect believes that prosecutors have too much power, too much influence and too much prosecutorial discretion. And he's attempting to send a signal to prosecutors at the federal level and maybe even down that he wants someone who's going to be a complete disruptor, a bring a wrecking ball to the DOJ, to radically change and transform the place based on his experiences. And so that within itself to me is fascinating for a whole litany of reasons.

SIDNER: Paul, on that subject, you know, the Gaetz nomination, who did himself face a sex trafficking probe by the department, that he would, if confirmed, lead, is this a big indication that retribution and revenge is a priority?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it is. I want to know - not that I like Matt Gaetz, but those charges were not followed through. The Justice Department - the Biden Justice Department, which is always accused of bias by the right, said there wasn't enough evidence to pursue. And again I don't want to defend Matt Gaetz. He seems to e a lovely guy. But this is - Trump doesn't want - I wish Shermichael were right. I wish he was just concerned about prosecutorial overreach. He's not. He doesn't want a Department of Justice. He was a department of vengeance. And he is going to install Matt Gaetz there.

Either he will force the Republican Senate to confirm him, and they will, they always bend to his will. If you do an MRI of the Republican Party today, you would never find a spine. They need to drop the elephant as their logo and pick the jellyfish because it's utterly spineless.

If I'm wrong, if Shermichael is right, and he probably is, he's smarter than I am, he'll put a recess appointment in. And that will - that will subvert the Senate.

By the way, he's also - you want a prediction? He's going to subvert the FBI background process, right, because people say Mr. Gaetz has sketchy things in his background.

SIDNER: Right.

BEGALA: He won't - he won't have a background check.

[09:30:00]

Trump will submit him without an FBI background check. Why? Because of what the source told our reporter. He wants not to just disrupt, he wants to insult the Senate.