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Trump Picks Army Veteran, FOX News Host For Defense Secretary; Rudy Giuliani's Lawyers Try To Quit His Debt Enforcement Case; Congress Hears New Testimony About UFOs; Paris Increases Security Ahead Of France-Israel Soccer Match. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 14, 2024 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

JENNIFER BARNHILL, COLUMNIST, "MILITARY TIMES": -- all painted to be unfit to serve. This is not new even for women. They've heard this before.

And so, obviously, families are kind of unsure of why we're even hearing this again. Why is this even a topic of conversation? Because of what you just shared.

There are data out there that show the success of women in the military. And so, to be honest, I'm dumbfounded. I don't know why we're still talking about this.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Do --are they bothered by it? Are people bothered by it or do they think this is just something that gets talked about and it's not really going to change anything?

BARNHILL: So, what I would say is one of the reasons why we're here today is to talk about this Woke idea. Part of this reason that this is a problematic situation, is because it pulls the military into a political sphere.

So you're not likely to hear directly from the military members about things like that because, that's the beauty of the military, they are apolitical.

So what I've been hearing is, of course, there are concerns, but it's very unlikely we're going to hear a lot publicly from these individuals for the very reason this is a problem.

Politicizing the military disrupts our government. It really is not something we should be looking to do. And in fact, it's something we really need to be careful to avoid.

KEILAR: Jennifer Barnhill, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Looking forward to the book as well.

So when we come back, why attorneys for Rudy Giuliani want to quit his debt enforcement case just days ahead of the deadline for him to turn over his assets to two Georgia election workers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [13:35:58]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Donald Trump's former attorney, Rudy Giuliani, is facing a major legal setback. His attorneys in the nine- figure defamation judgment against him want to quit his case.

Lead lawyer, Kenneth Caruso, filed a motion to withdraw yesterday, even though, last week, he was still talking about the future of Giuliani's appeal.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNETH CARUSO, RUDY GIULIANI'S LEAD ATTORNEY: People seem to think this is final. Rudy Giuliani's going to give up everything he owns. But if, as I believe, we're going to have that verdict reversed, it's all going to come back. As I said to the press in one of my rare comments, stay tuned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The update is now that lawyer wants out.

Giuliani owes two Georgia election workers nearly $150 million for defaming them while wrongly claimed the 2020 election was stolen.

Let's get the latest from CNN's Kaitlyn Polantz, who joins us now with the details.

Katelyn, Giuliani has a big deadline for tomorrow to turn over some of his possessions. Why is the attorney, the two attorneys trying to get out right now?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: We don't have the details on exactly what happened between them and Giuliani.

But the big picture is that if Rudy Giuliani doesn't meet this deadline tomorrow set by the court to give over a lot of his valuables, furniture, watches, a car, keys and title to a Mercedes- Benz in Florida, if he doesn't give these things over, him and all the other people involved could face sanctions in court, contempt of court.

Theoretically, that's where people can be locked up if they -- if they're not doing what the court says until they're willing to do what the court says.

We don't know if it's going to get there with Giuliani. But things are going badly for him. These lawyers have been arguing in court. They we're just in court last week with the former mayor there in person at that hearing. And Giuliani is telling them clearly in here, he's whispering, and telling them to do certain things.

And Ken Caruso started -- during the hearing started making arguments he had already lost weeks ago in this case and the judge kept saying, no, this is ridiculous, this is farcical, it's not going to happen.

So now, these attorneys filed these notices last night with the details about what happened with Giuliani redacted.

What they have said is that they're following the ethics rules for lawyers that say that they may need to take themselves out of a case, quit, if they have a fundamental disagreement with their client or their client is uncooperative or they're being asked to contradict the law.

So exactly what's happening there, we're going to see what's happening tomorrow, if Giuliani gets his things over to Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss, $150 million.

All remains to be seen. It is a tense moment for the former mayor of New York.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Any of those three options as grounds for them to get out of the case portend really ominous things for Giuliani.

I wonder, Katelyn, is Giuliani hoping that Donald Trump is going to do something for him now that he's president-elect? Is there anything the president-elect can do?

POLANTZ: There doesn't appear to be much at all that Donald Trump could do. This is a civil case. It is enforcement action in the court system. So there's a federal judge in New York that's trying to enforce having these things turned over to Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss.

There is an appeal that Giuliani seems to be pinning all his hopes on, but that isn't moving. And there's no relief coming any time soon.

And the possibility he could win that appeal is very, very unlikely. He's not really getting a lot of hope here or even much information at this time.

SANCHEZ: Or much support as his attorneys now want out.

Katelyn Polantz --

POLANTZ: Yes.

SANCHEZ: -- thank you so much.

After violence against Jewish people in Amsterdam, France is sending in thousands of police officer to a big soccer game today in Paris between France and Israel.

[13:39:51]

These are actual live images from Paris. You see protesters there gathered in the street. We have details coming your way in just a few minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSWOMAN: Has the government conducted secret programs, yes or no?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSWOMAN: OK. Were they designed to identify and reverse- engineer alien craft, yes or no?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: A congressional hearing straight out of a sci-fi movie. Four self-described UFO or UAP experts testifying to members of the House Oversight committee yesterday making shocking claims, including that the U.S. government is covering up evidence of UFOs and aliens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL SCHELLENBERGER, AUTHOR: What the American people need to know is that the U.S. military and intelligence community are sitting on a huge amount of visual and other information, still photos, video photos.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Was anything described that we have possession of bodies?

[13:45:03]

LUIS ELIZONDO, FORMER DEFENSE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Is it multiple types of creatures or --

ELIZONDO: Sir, I couldn't answer that. I can tell you anecdotally that it was discussed quite a bit when I was at the Pentagon.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: What do you believe UAPs could be or are?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Strong evidence that they're non-human higher intelligence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Wow! Let's discuss with astrophysicist and astronomer, Adam Frank.

Adam, thank you so much for being with us.

I feel like we've talked about this sort of thing before and you've expressed skepticism. I wonder what you made of these hearings.

ADAM FRANK, PROFESSOR OF ASTROPHYSICS, UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER, ASTRONOMER & AUTHOR: First of all, I always want to begin, transparency would be great. You know, getting a handle on what the government actually knows and doesn't know about UAPs is a good thing.

But I'm going to express the exact same skepticism that I expressed last time. As you heard, one of the speakers say, well, anecdotally. These are always stories about military or intelligence people who have heard from somebody else, who's heard from somebody else.

I've got to tell you, as an astronomer whose job is all about finding life in the universe, it's very frustrating. Because these are spectacular claims.

And listen, I kind of hope they're true because the most important question for me is, is there life in the universe? But there's never any actual data that a scientist can work with.

And it's been decades now that we've been hearing these stories. And there still is no actual data. So I still have the exact same skepticism. You know, show me the spaceship. Until then, it's a lot of stories.

KEILAR: That's really interesting.

I think, as reporters, we run into that sometimes. You know, that it may be someone just repeating something they've heard and they sort of believe it to be true. But have you seen it?

So when that one guy is talking about life forms, bodies, that's sort of just a game of telephone, of people talking about something that their friend saw and it just gets sort of passed on through a chain of people? Is that your expectation?

FRANK: I think that's a possibility. I mean, you know, so the first UFO craze happens in 1947.

Actually, the guy, the military guy who was in charge of -- the officer in charge of the first investigation in the early '50s afterwards, after he left the investigation, wrote a book where he claimed there was a special report that showed these things we're interplanetary, because no one was thinking interstellar then.

But, of course, no one's ever found that report. This goes back decades. For every military and intelligence officer who says there is evidence, the government is holding it, you can find one who says it isn't.

For example, Sean Kirkpatrick, who just recently stepped down as the head of the government program studying these things, said there's no evidence.

He talks about what he calls "the circular conversation." That for decades now, you've got people who will claim something is true talking to other people, maybe the next generation, the younger generation, and then they talk to the next generation.

So it's this circular conversation among people who believe this. I'm sure they believe it earnestly. But we never get the actual data.

You know, my colleagues and I hope that we'll soon have data where we can make a claim there's alien life.

And we expect -- you know, our colleagues are going to come at us hard. If you make a claim that's extraordinary, you need to have pretty strong evidence. Because you know, we are -- human beings are very good at fooling themselves, especially about things they want to be true.

So we invented science so we would have a way to know what's really true. I'm bothered by people making these incredible claims as if, that's enough, now we know. And we don't know. Just is just believing.

I don't want to believe. I want to know. I'm a scientist.

SANCHEZ: I think it's clear that you and Brianna are in on the cover up.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: And I don't appreciate you guys stifling descending voices.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Adam, we have to leave the conversation there. We look forward to having you on. It's not a conversation that's going away anytime soon.

Thank you so much for joining us.

FRANK: No, thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

[13:49:10]

Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We'll be right back. Seeking the truth because is out there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Paris is on high alert ahead of a soccer match between France and Israel that will kick off in and an hour. Thousands of extra security personnel deployed on the streets and in the stadium.

French authorities taking no chances after Amsterdam was rocked by anti-Semitic violence after a soccer match there last week.

Israeli fans were attacked in the streets. Some of them beaten by people who chased them down on scooters.

CNN's Melissa Bell is near Paris where tonight's match will take place.

Melissa, what's the scene like there?

MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Let me just show you what things are like just outside here. As you said, an hour to kickoff.

Normally, this would be an area full of fans going in and out of the stadium that can seat 80,000 people. As you can see, apart from policemen and women, there aren't many people here.

We don't expect the turnout to be terribly high, no more than about 15,000, according to sources. And we just watched a handful of Israel supporters who have chosen to come out to this match arrive under a really strong police presence, brought in by bus, accompanied by elite special forces.

There are helicopters in the sky, drones have been deployed, 40,000 police men and women. And the barricades that allow you to get as close as we are now are pretty substantial.

There's a very small pro-Palestinian rally being held a couple of kilometers from here tonight, Brianna. And really, as you say, French authorities are all about preventing the kind of violence we saw last week in Amsterdam.

[13:55:04]

And yet, here in Paris, emotions running high as well. Last night, we saw a pro-Palestinian protest, but also Jewish groups coming out to protest the policies of the Israeli government in Gaza on the margins of a gala event that was held in support of the Israeli government and its policies.

This is a part of the world in which feelings run extremely high about what's happening in the Middle East. Still, French authorities really taking no chances to ensure that Israeli fans are allowed to get to and from their hotels tonight safely.

KEILAR: All right, Melissa Bell, thank you so much. We'll continue to monitor this story.

Another Republican Senator speaking out about the nomination of Matt Gaetz, and saying that Gaetz's record might make it more complicated to confirm him as attorney general. We are live on the Hill with the latest.

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