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Sources: Trump Team Preparing For Mass Detentions, Deportations; Georgia Officials: Jail Conditions "Fixable" After Damning DOJ Report; FBI Arrests Man Who Allegedly Wanted To Commit 9/11-Style Attack. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired November 15, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: During the campaign, Trump essentially promised this was coming, declaring that he wanted RFK to go "wild" on America's public health agencies, leaving some of the very people who have spent their entire careers in medicine and public health in disbelief.

For one, he has been a dominant force in promoting vaccine conspiracy theories and misinformation for years, leaving prominent experts like Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at the -- at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, to warn calling Kennedy a vaccine skeptic does not go far enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: He's not a vaccine skeptic; I'm a vaccine skeptic. Everyone who sits around the table at the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee is a skeptic, right? Show us the data. Show us the data. Prove that it's safe and effective.

He's not a skeptic; he's a cynic. He doesn't believe those data. He thinks there is a big conspiracy to hide the truth --

BOLDUAN: Well, and that --

OFFIT: -- making him a dangerous man.

If you look on -- know that science and technological advances have allowed us to live 30 years longer than we did 100 years ago.

And now you have this man, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who is a science denialist -- a viral and antivaccine activist, a conspiracy theorist who will have some sway over public health. Nothing good can come of that. He denies those advances. He simply declares his own scientific truths. It's a dangerous moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: RFK has targeted the very agencies he is now nominated to oversee, warning FDA employees to preserve your records and pack your bags. And targeting scientists at NAH as well, the nation's premiere biomedical research agency, saying, "Thank you for your public service. We're going to have -- we're going to give infectious disease a break for about eight years."

Joining us right now is CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Thanks for being here, Sanjay.

I want to play just one of the examples of what RFK has said, specifically promoting false information about vaccines. Let's play this for everybody.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR. (I), THEN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I do believe that autism does comes from vaccines. I think most of the things that people believe about my opinions about vaccines are wrong. I -- you know, all I've said about vaccines is we should have good science.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And that's not from years past. That was from this summer.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BOLDUAN: Can you set the record straight with regard to vaccines?

GUPTA: Yeah. So first of all, you just heard what he said -- "I do believe vaccines cause autism." He says he believes it -- and belief is one thing, but science is something else. Then he says we need science to show that vaccines are safe and effective. So how do you believe something and then say we need science? He's got these preconceived notions is my point.

Look, it's interesting. I think vaccines and autism, in particular, has become the flashpoint.

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

GUPTA: There's a lot of things that he says about making America healthy again, which had these kernels of truth. But when it comes to vaccines --

And autism -- this sort of started in 1998. There was a paper that was subsequently retracted from Andrew Wakefield showing this association between vaccines and autism. The study was a terrible study and that's why the paper was retracted.

Subsequent to that there have been these gigantic studies -- hundreds of thousands of kids around the world who are vaccinated and then followed for a decade and a half compared to kids to were not vaccinated over that time. So these are these huge medi-analyses. They did not find an association. They studied this several times. There was 10 -- at least 10 different studies that did this over the last 25 years.

So this is a question that has been asked, and maybe appropriately asked, and it's been answered. And there's not a connection between vaccines and autism.

There was one study that came out five years ago showing that, in fact, unvaccinated kids had a higher likelihood of developing autism. A small association there.

But the point is there is no association between vaccines and autism.

Now the concerning thing I think, Kate, is that he knows this --

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

GUPTA: -- because he does read. He studies this stuff, so he has seen these studies. And he is no longer sort of assailing the message as much as he is assailing the messengers. That's the problem. He's assailing the scientists. He does not trust the scientists. And now he may be in a position where he's overseeing all the scientists, and I think that's the huge concern.

BOLDUAN: You hit it right. He says he -- science needs to come out and science needs to be trusted, but he doesn't trust the scientists.

GUPTA: Right.

BOLDUAN: So there is -- there is an impossibility that you're going to get from point A to point B at all, or to have any kind of logical, rational conversation.

GUPTA: That's the problem. When you see these interviews -- and I thought that interview you did with Paul Offit was fantastic.

But you see these interviews with RFK Jr. and oftentimes what it comes down to is not about the message. It's like I believe these sorts of things but look at this guy. You can't trust that guy. You can't trust these guys. Pack your bags. Preserve your records. All that sort of sort.

He's assailing the scientists. So this --

BOLDUAN: But --

GUPTA: -- is about criticizing the messenger.

BOLDUAN: There is the science and there -- and people -- and people who -- people hopefully will believe the science. But even with that out there no matter how many times you speak the truth.

What do you think misinformation being repeated from the highest echelons of the federal government, if that happens -- what impact that really has?

[07:35:00]

GUPTA: There's so many different topics and so many different issues that this could affect.

But just staying on the vaccine thing for a second because I think it's the best example of a preventative health measure. We all want to prevent disease instead of having to treat it.

So if you look at the data, for example, children born between 1994 and 2023, and look at how many hospitalizations, illnesses, and deaths they prevented.

And you can see these numbers. A million deaths prevented as a result of vaccines. Five hundred million illnesses, 32 million hospitalizations. So that's looking in the past.

Going forward we've already seen measles vaccinations, for example --

BOLDUAN: Right.

GUPTA: -- start to drop. So you want to get to a herd immunity. That means your kids will be protected and they'll be protecting other kids around them as well. That's the nature of herd immunity. You want about 95 percent vaccination for that. We're already seeing it dip below that in several places around the country to 92 percent. It might even get lower.

You know, Kate, we could see vaccine preventable diseases come back. I think there's so many people who have never seen these diseases and have no idea of the impact.

But just a million deaths alone prevented over the last 30 years because of vaccines -- it's an extraordinary number. That's the United States alone --

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

GUPTA: -- by the way. Nothing -- to say nothing about the rest of the world.

BOLDUAN: It's remarkable.

Sanjay, you are always invaluable, especially in these days.

GUPTA: We'll keep on it.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much.

GUPTA: You got it.

BOLDUAN: Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. This morning we're learning new details on how the incoming Trump administration is preparing to crack down on the border and start mass deportations and detentions of migrants. Sources are telling CNN people close to President-elect Trump and his aides are already laying the groundwork for expanding detention facilities and preparing executive action.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has details for us now on this. And I guess the question is if they're already doing this preparation, how soon they might try to launch it when he walks into the White House. PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, they want to launch this as soon as he gets into the White House -- so on Inauguration Day. Now, of course, there are multiple pieces at play here. For example, there are executive actions that are being worked on that could be rolled out on the first day. Operations, though, are trickier.

Now, of course, taken together, Sara, this is a return to the hardline immigration policies that we saw in Trump's first term and will mark a dramatic change for migrants and immigrants in the United States.

Now, you see them there on your screen. Some of these may sound familiar, and that is the point. This is about bringing back policies they had before and building them at scale.

So, for example, you see "Remain in Mexico." That required migrants to stay in Mexico for the duration of their immigration proceedings in the U.S. It was controversial at the time. It didn't -- it was pulled back during the Biden administration.

And you also see reviewing regional capability for housing migrants. This is part of the mass detention-mass deportation plans. Where could they put those migrants that they arrest in the interior of the United States before they get repatriated?

Bringing back family detention. That was discontinued by President Biden in 2021. What that means is essentially detention for families. It's something that administrations have done. The Obama administration did it. The Trump administration did it. It's been a practice though that has been widely criticized by immigrant advocates.

And making detention mandatory and ending the release of migrants, something that has happened, again, across administrations because there haven't been enough federal resources, and they are trying to shore that up.

And one of the ways that they want to do that, Sara, is through a national emergency declaration. Remember, the Trump administration tried to do that with the border wall the last time around. This was a way that they wanted to unlock those Pentagon funds. Well, they are looking at that again and trying to craft it so that they can use a declaration like that for their plans of mass detention and mass deportation.

Now, the team that's going to be charged with all of this is coming together. We saw that this week. Tom Homan as the border czar, Stephen Miller at the White House, and Kristi Noem as Homeland Security secretary. Homan talked about how the three of them will work together last night. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, FORMER ACTING HEAD OF ICE, TRUMP BORDER CZAR: I'll work very closely with Gov. Noem. It's not like we're going to be working separately. I'll work very closely with her. But I can take a lot of her plate because I've done this for 3 1/2 decades.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

HOMAN: I'll be working very closely with Steve Miller. I report directly to the president, so I shouldn't get a lot of pushback. So I think President Trump was smart by doing this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, the power center will continue to be the White House when it comes to immigration policy and the incoming Trump administration. But it's true, Tom Homan knows this very well. He was at the -- or he was part of ICE during the Obama administration, which had a record number of deportations during his term.

So all of these plans are coming together, they're underway. There's also other border security officials behind the scenes who are involved in these discussions. Because ultimately, Sara, some of these ideas and concepts are not novel. It's just about building them at scale and using different federal resources to try to execute on this campaign promise of mass deportation.

[07:40:00]

Of course, again, operationally, these things can get quite complicated. So we'll see how long that takes for them to do, though they certainly want to do it quickly. But the executive actions that will already mark dramatic change for those migrants at the U.S.- Mexico border and even those immigrants in the U.S. -- those can be rolled out very quickly.

SIDNER: Yeah. The difference this time around as President Trump has already been in this position before, and now a lot of folks saying he may be more effective this time around.

Priscilla Alvarez, thank you so much for your reporting -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now, Tricia McLaughlin, former Trump administration official and former senior adviser to Vivek Ramaswamy's presidential campaign. And Axios senior contributor, Margaret Talev.

I've got a lot of ground I want to cover this morning. I want to start with one big meta question in regards to the controversial cabinet pick so far. You have Robert Kennedy, a vaccine skeptic, for HHS. You've got Matt Gaetz for whom there's an Ethics Committee report that may or may not be released about allegations of sexual misconduct. These are people who were so prominent in Donald Trump's campaign down the stretch.

So my question is can we be sure that Donald Trump won his election victory -- whether it was in spite of these people or because of these people?

TRICIA MCLAUGHLIN, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO VIVEK RAMASWAMY'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Well, in RFK's case I think it's partially because of these people. I mean, I think you look at the numbers in Arizona where RFK was very popular.

I think RFK -- I mean, there, of course, is controversy but he has changed the conversation when it comes to public health. People haven't really been talking about the fact that 75 percent of Americans are either obese or overweight. One in four Americans suffers a significant mental health disorder. We should be having these conversations.

I know there's a lot of controversy and skepticism about what he says about fluoride in the water. But why aren't we more outraged about the public health crisis we're facing today and the fact that the medical establishment we can't really trust at this point, especially after COVID-19 and a lot of what we were told about conspiracy theories. The origins of COVID turned out to be true.

BERMAN: Well look, I am old enough to remember when the Obama administration's initiatives on obesity were mocked.

MCLAUGHLIN: Sure.

BERMAN: Mocked by Republicans.

MCLAUGHLIN: Sure.

BERMAN: It seems to be different now.

Margaret, again, the in spite of or because of, what's the risk of hubris for Trump in the incoming administration here?

MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, AXIOS, DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR DEMOCRACY, JOURNALISM AND CITIZENSHIP, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY (via Webex by Cisco): I mean, John, I think it's a really important question. By most indications in the exit polling and by some new indications for us in our Axios that engages monthly swing voter focus groups, what we're hearing from key blocs of voters is really that it was inflation and how the economy has impacted them. That is overwhelmingly the reason why so many of those voters who were sort of persuadable switched back to now President-elect Trump.

And in this panel that we just conducted this week we had voters telling us overwhelmingly they don't want him to use his power to go on a retribution tour against enemies. They're not looking to sort of blow up all of the boxes. They want to focus on the economy. And we've heard from other voters they want to focus on unity and unifying people.

So there is a risk. But unlike many other politicians, I think President-elect Trump is not looking at his -- at the next 30 years of running for office. He's looking at what constitutionally is -- would be his final four years in office. And he promised that he was going to hold -- change institutions in his mold. He has foreshadowed this.

And I think he's less concerned than a conventional politician would be with am I allowed to do that, or what if my party gets mad at me, or what if the Senate pushes back. Like, I think we should listen to what he's already pledged and assume that that's what he's going to try to do.

BERMAN: Let's talk about the Constitution since you brought it up, which calls for advice and consent from the Senate on nominations.

John Thune, the incoming majority leader, spoke really out loud for the first time about, specifically, the nomination of Matt Gaetz to be attorney general and whether or not it would take a recess appointment if it did not look like he could get confirmed by a majority of senators, which would include Republican votes.

Listen to what Thune said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER-ELECT: Well, it's an option but obviously it takes -- you know, you have to have all Republicans vote to recess as well. So the same Republicans that might have a problem voting for somebody under regular order would probably also have a problem voting to put the Senate into recess. You have to have concurrence from the House. There's a process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, I'm just beginning to learn how to interpret Thune speak because he's only been picked as the incoming majority leader for a brief time. But that wasn't an enthusiastic hell, yeah, we're doing recess appointments. That was a guy saying if I can't get all Republicans on board in regular order, why would we do recess?

MCLAUGHLIN: That's right. I think that he's also kind of exercising his power. He's flexing a bit. He's in the seat. He doesn't need Donald Trump at this point.

[07:45:00]

And he will, I believe, bring the agenda across the line. But I think he -- I don't think him and fellow moderate Republicans are going to hesitate to exercise their power when it comes to a Matt Gaetz of the world and potentially, Tulsi Gabbard.

But I do think that he -- Donald Trump is using potentially Matt Gaetz as a bargaining chip. Maybe that's the scalp that the Republicans need to get Tulsi Gabbard, Pete Hegseth, and Kristi Noem across the line.

BERMAN: All right, Tricia, Margaret, thank you both very much.

And as I said, we will see. One of the key questions here -- that because of-in spite of -- Margaret, you and Axios have looked into one of the big unanswered questions at this point -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Exposed wiring, flooded cells from broken toilets, inmates living with animal infestations. In a new report, the Justice Department says the conditions at Atlanta's Fulton County Jail are so bad that they violate the U.S. Constitution.

CNN's Ryan Young has much more for us and he's joining us from Atlanta now. Ryan, if this is so bad what is the Justice Department saying should happen now?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kate, that's a great question. We know that they have 49 days to try to work this out before the federal government moves forward with a lawsuit.

But as someone who has been to this jail on numerous occasions, as you look down the hallway here, this jail facility is falling apart. The walls are coming off. There's exposed wiring. And we know inmates turn those pieces of the wall into objects that they can use to stab other people. In fact, there have been over 1,000 assaults.

And what they're hopefully focused on is $300 million to renovate this entire building. But the Justice Department tells us they really want to see changes.

But take a listen to some of the findings they had over the last 16 months.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN BUCHANAN, U.S. ATTORNEY, NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: Aside from the glaring risk of violence, detainees face an insidious threat of unsafe living conditions. Constant exposure to rodents and pests and an unsettling disregard for food safety.

Detainees in the Fulton County Jail lack basic necessities, like working toilets and sinks, and are exposed to flooding, standing water, mold, and what could only be described as filth. Pests carrying bacteria and disease not only run rampant in food preparation areas but have infested the bodies of the people in the jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Kate, it's tough to hear. Over the years, I've talked to many family members of people who have been inside that jail. Just to give this number out there, 17 deaths just from 2022 to 2023. There's one case, Lashawn Thompson. He died, and when he was found he was covered in lice and also his own waste. And it was a while before they were able to discover his body.

That's what they're scared of right now. We know that this investigated -- investigation is going to continue because there are so many people who are complaining about the sexual assaults that are happening in this jail as well. People want changes.

And I'm going to tell you, at one point there was $1.7 billion that they wanted for a new jail. That has gone away. That is something that is not going to happen. Many sheriffs have complained that they need a new facility. But at this point, what we're told -- $300 million in renovations. That's going to be pushed forward to try to help this jail try to change and make some improvements.

But at the same time families are concerned about their loved ones who are locked up in that facility right now.

BOLDUAN: Ryan Young, thank you -- Sara. SIDNER: All right. Ahead, automaker Ford facing some hefty fines. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration ruled the company moved far too slowly in recalling cars with faulty rearview cameras. Drivers started reporting that the cameras were simply showing a blank screen. That was back in 2022. Now, Ford could have to pay up to $165 million, one of the largest penalties in the agency's history -- though no one was hurt as a result of the camera issue -- John.

BERMAN: All right. This morning, Mike Tyson coming out of retirement to fight influence Jake Paul. Why he says smoking hallucinogenic toad venom convinced him to do it.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:54:00]

SIDNER: We're following the latest after a Houston man was arrested by the FBI Thursday and charge for allegedly planning a 9/11-style attack in the United States. Authorities say the suspect, who was previously known to law enforcement, told investigators he scoped out synagogues and the Israel consulate in Houston as part of his planned attack.

CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller here with us. What are you learning about this case and this person?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, this individual is someone who was born here -- a U.S. citizen -- returned with his family to Lebanon and then came back.

And during the time he was in Houston he got on the FBI's radar literally for -- because of a tip. Someone said he's buying stickers that are ISIS stickers. They interviewed him. They interviewed him again and they did a background investigation into him. But they came back on him later and he said I'm no longer interested in ISIS and all that stuff.

[07:55:00]

But in their follow-up investigation -- and this goes from 2017 to 2018 and '19, then again in '23. So they've been returning to this case. But they found 11 encrypted Facebook accounts where he was posting ISIS propaganda and working with ISIS people overseas to create propaganda. So it became a case where it was an issue of material support for a terrorist group.

It was in the interviews after the arrest where he said I tried to join ISIS overseas. I was thinking of doing things here -- attacking military people. The Israeli consulate in Houston. Maybe the head of a Jewish organization that I would lure to a location posing as a donor.

So he had crossed over from interest to allegedly preparing for action.

SIDNER: You talked about the fact that they started looking into him in 2017 and you kind of went through all the things. What is it that has -- I guess, why has it taken so long to get to this point? They clearly just didn't have the evidence.

MILLER: So this signals two important things. Number one, how many times have we heard and reported on our air about the individual involved in an attack and then we find out "the person had been on the FBI's radar."

SIDNER: Yeah.

MILLER: He came up x number of years ago. And then we all ask that question: Where was the follow-through?

This is the opposite of that theory, which is they kept coming back to this lead to make sure that his interest in ISIS wasn't metastasizing, and that pays off.

The other thing it signals is even people who went into a lull after the U.S. pulled out of those regions, ISIS was basically disabled, and the October 7 attacks and the Israeli attacks that followed have renewed interest in that and the propaganda.

SIDNER: It tells us the potential dangers because of that.

Thank you, John Miller. I appreciate it.

MILLER: Thanks, Sara.

SIDNER: Thanks for following through with that -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, New Zealand's Parliament was temporarily suspended Thursday after lawmakers performed a traditional dance to interrupt the vote on a bill -- a bill that many claim could have undermined and could still undermine the rights of the indigenous Maori people -- watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

New Zealand Parliament members performing haka.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The lawmakers said they decided to perform the haka to demonstrate the community's fear and anger over this new bill. The legislation would reinterpret New Zealand's founding treaty with the indigenous Maori people who make up about 20 percent of the population.

And it was a nightmare scenario for passengers flying from Stockholm to Miami yesterday. Take a look at some of these pictures we shall show you right here. These are pictures taken from passengers on board showing food and bags strewn across the aisles. One of the passengers telling CNN he's lucky to be alive after the turbulence they suffered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Clip showing turbulence from Scandinavian Airlines turbulence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is everybody all right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: That is so scary.

The plane was forced to make a U-turn five hours into the flight after hitting this severe turbulence. A spokesperson for Scandinavian Airlines said the turbulence began when the flight was over Greenland, and then the flight was diverted back to Copenhagen to be inspected for possible damage. Thankfully, though, no real injuries were reported.

And move over "Baby Shark" -- thank God. No, just kidding. Moo Deng is here with a new tune topping the playground charts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Song: "Moodeng, Moodeng."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I already like it better than "Baby Shark." Just saying.

The new song stars Thailand's famous viral pygmy hippo Moo Deng and was written by a well-known Thai composer. The music video is available in four different languages and has already gained more than 100,000 views on YouTube -- Jonathan.

BERMAN: Hippos are deadly. They're very deadly.

BOLDUAN: Not Moo Deng. Don't you dare.

BERMAN: Not yet.

BOLDUAN: Blasphemy.

BERMAN: Not yet. Not yet.

BOLDUAN: Blasphemy.

BERMAN: All right. Middle-age fight night. Mike Tyson coming out of retirement to fight influence Jake Paul live on Netflix. Tyson is more than twice Paul's age. He slapped him during the weigh-in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Mike Tyson slaps Jake Paul during the weigh-in.

ANNOUNCER: Ladies and gentlemen --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I'm sure that was completely spontaneous and not staged.

Paul said he barely felt the slap. He called it a "cute slap." And he, I think, said that Tyson is going to get knocked the f out. All right, CNN sports correspondent Carolyn Manno is here with all of

the excitement. Fifty-eight years old -- because there are no other boxers who could be fighting tonight.

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: What a time to be alive.

BERMAN: Yeah, yeah.

MANNO: It's a great day in America. It's fight night, like you said. And this is something that's going to attract 100 million people on Netflix. I mean, this is kind of where we are. Whether you love this or you hate this, it's happening tonight. Everybody logging onto Netflix to watch how this goes down.