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Trump Taps Vaccine Skeptic RFK Jr. for Health & Human Services Secretary; Trial Begins for Migrant Accused of Killing GA Student Laken Riley; Police Believe Missing Father Faked His Death, Fled to Europe. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired November 15, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY JR.: In fact, COVID-19, there's an argument that it is ethnically targeted. COVID-19 attacks certain races disproportionately. COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and -- and -- and black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So that was Robert F. Kennedy Jr. who has been tapped to lead the Department of Health and Human Services. A man who, as you've heard right there, has promoted conspiracy theories and other misinformation about the safety and efficacy of vaccines.

With us now, old friends, Emergency Physician Dr. Leana Wen and Dr. Ashish Jha, Dean of the Brown University School of Public Health.

Dr. Jha, I just want to start with you. You say the Robert Kennedy pick is an extraordinarily bad choice. Why?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes, good morning, John. Thanks for having me here. A couple of things. First of all, this is a very big job. He's going to oversee the entire health agency of the United States. He's going to oversee Medicare and insurance that seniors have. He's going to oversee Medicaid that covers kids. Obviously, CDC, FDA, all of it.

The second point here, the reason why he's a bad choice for it is, look, there is an approach we use to making policy decisions. It's not perfect, but we rely on scientific evidence, rigorous analysis. And as you heard from that clip right there, this is a man who sits and peddles some conspiracy theories, says stuff that is flatly not true. COVID vaccine -- I'm sorry, the COVID virus, the Jewish people were immune to it. How about to the 12,000 Israeli people who died from COVID? He just pedals in nonsense and it's not useful. And I really worry that if he brings those ideas to HHS, he's going to do an enormous amount of damage.

BERMAN: Dr. Wen, you've been talking to your colleagues in the field. What are you hearing in general? DR. LEANA WEN, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN: Well, I'm hearing exactly the same thing that Dr. Jha, I'm sure, is hearing as well, what you're hearing from the medical field. There's a sense of disbelief, of shock. We think that it's a joke, except unfortunately, of course, it's not.

It's exactly as Dr. Jha mentioned with the conspiracy theories. I mean, we're talking about someone who is one of the most prominent anti-vaccine activists over the last 20 years, who is globally renowned for being an anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist. And there are real problems, of course, with promoting falsehoods that could end up in people's -- people -- people dying.

But I think it speaks to a broader point that we want, in charge of scientific agencies, someone who at least understands science and believes in science. But in this case, this would be somebody who has views. He questions things, which is fine.

But you have to be able to believe in the scientific process that might disprove some of your views. And you have to accept those changes. And RFK Jr. has shown that he is unable to accept when his opinions, his views are debunked. And that's extremely dangerous and should be disqualifying for someone who is going to be overseeing scientists.

BERMAN: Dr. Wen, you do note that Robert Kennedy does support things that I think are widely accepted. Battle against obesity, concern about some of the additives in foods. Do those -- does the fact that he is on those subjects, does it outweigh his comments about vaccines and the conspiracy theories?

WEN: No, I mean, you could be right on some issues and totally wrong on others. The issues that I think there is broad agreement with Kennedy on with the scientific community would include the fact that we have many chronic diseases, including childhood obesity that we need to address.

I also don't think it's wrong to address and challenge scientific dogma, including the issue of fluoridation of water, which I think there is real disagreement within the scientific community about fluoridation policy.

But the problem still goes back to, do you believe the science at the end of the day? Are you able to say there have been dozens of studies published on a particular area that very clearly show, for example, that vaccines do not cause autism? Can that then change your own longstanding view? And if your answer is no, because I'm an activist, nothing will change my view. And that's the part that's disqualifying.

BERMAN: So, Dr. Jha, can you give specific examples of what could happen with Kennedy in charge of HHS? What could it mean for development or use of vaccines or other areas that I might not be thinking about?

JHA: Yeah. And first of all, let me disagree with -- let me agree with Dr. Wen that we all agree obesity is a problem. The question is, how are you going to solve it? Are you going to use evidence and analysis, or are you going to hold your strong views? That's what I worry about.

[09:35:04]

Now, in terms of what he could do as Secretary of HHS, Secretary of HHS has enormous power. Secretary of HHS determines whether mammograms and colon cancer screening is going to be covered for free or not. The Secretary of HHS determines which treatments are going to get FDA approval. It's an FDA-directed decision, but he has tremendous influence over that.

He may choose the next FDA director, who may not believe that we're going to want to lean into the medical innovation infrastructure that we have in this country. So it goes well beyond vaccines. I think we're all going to feel the impact of an HHS Secretary like Bobby Kennedy. And it worries me if this past track record is any evidence of what the Secretary is going to be. He is very, very concerned for the health of the American people.

BERMAN: Well, Dr. Leana Wen, Dr. Ashish Jha, great to see both of you again. I know you two probably want to catch up, so we'll get off camera so you guys can talk. Appreciate it.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: New clues this morning about the mysterious case of a missing father who is presumed dead and is now being sought by authorities for possibly faking his own death to start a new life in Europe.

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[09:40:46]

BOLDUAN: New Zealand's parliament was temporarily suspended Thursday after lawmakers performed a traditional dance to interrupt the vote on a bill. A bill that many claim could undermine the rights of indigenous people -- indigenous people. Listen to this.

The lawmakers said that they decided to perform the haka to demonstrate the community's fear and anger over the new bill. The legislation would reinterpret New Zealand's founding treaty with its indigenous people who make up about 20% of the population.

And it was a nightmare scenario for passengers flying from Stockholm to Miami yesterday. You're going to show you some pictures of what it looked like inside. Pictures taken by passengers on board showing food and bags just strewn about the aisles. One of the passengers telling CNN after this severe turbulence he is lucky to be alive.

The plane was forced to make a U-turn after five hours into the flight and hitting the severe turbulence you saw just there. A spokesperson for Scandinavian Airlines said the turbulence began when the flight was over Greenland and the flight was then diverted back to Copenhagen to inspect for possible damage. Thankfully no reports of injuries.

And move over baby shark Moo Deng is here with a new tune topping the charts. (MUSIC)

BOLDUAN: That part gets Moo Deng. The new song stars Thailand's famous viral pygmy hippo Moo Deng and was written by a well-known Thai composer. The music video is available in four languages. It's already gained more than 100,000 views on YouTube.

Coming up for us. An angry little elf and an effing a-hole. That's just how it feels on a Friday, right? No, just a taste of some of the trash talk before tonight's big fight between Mike Tyson and [Jake] Paul.

And a quick programming note in an all-new episode of "Have I Got News For You." It airs tonight. Comedians Roy Wood Jr. and Amber Ruffin and Michael Ian Black are ripping on the headlines in a new comedy quiz show on CNN. All starts at 9 p.m. Eastern on MSN.

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[09:47:42]

SIDNER: His family and authorities thought he may have drowned after the married father of three went missing. It turns out police say the real story may be he went missing and does not want to be found. Ryan Borgwardt disappeared in August after going on a fishing trip in Wisconsin. After finding his kayak capsized, authorities scoured the area thinking he might have drowned. They looked for weeks using manpower and drones to search for him. But now authorities think he may have tried to fake his death and fled to Europe.

Joining us now is Sheriff Mark Podoll. Thank you so much for coming in. First of all, can you give us some sense of what the first clue was? That there was something that wasn't adding up in what was a missing persons case.

SHERIFF MARK PODOLL, GREEN LAKE COUNTY, WISCONSIN: Well, the very first clue was that we could not locate him in our lake. And how we did that was through Bruce's Legacy. He does deep water and we scoured that lake for weeks and weeks. And October 4th, he talked to me and said, Sheriff, I can't find him. And he's an expert. And that's when we decided to go a different direction.

SIDNER: What did you later learn when you went that different direction that pointed to something that is more sinister here, that he may have faked his own death?

PODOLL: Well, that same day, we found that his passport was run by the authorities in Canada. And that was August 13th.

SIDNER: He is a married father of three. Can you tell us anything about the conversations that you've had to have with his family after they first thought that he may have drowned in that lake on that fishing trip?

PODOLL: Well, when we went our different direction, the only one that we had communication with was his wife. I put a lot on her shoulders and told her that she had to keep it within herself. This is where we're going. My staff was excellent. We just had a few with our detective bureau that went forward, and we had to keep it quiet. And we kept it quiet until last Friday. Last Friday, until we told the entire family in our department. But it was hard. It was very hard.

[09:50:25]

SIDNER: This was all on her shoulders and in her mind that this was a possibility, her with her three children. Just one last thing, is there a message that you have for Ryan Borgwardt and where you think he is now?

PODOLL: Well, we know he's in a different country, Eastern Europe someplace. We just asked Ryan that he communicate with us. Things can be worked out. People forgive. And I'm sure he's probably thinking that, you know, it's tough and try to come back and restart his life again. But there's people that love him, family loves him, and we just want to bring him back.

SIDNER: It is an awful twist to a story. The family now wondering what is going to happen. Sheriff Mark Podoll, thank you so much. I know you guys used a lot of resources to try and find him.

All right, over to you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Mike Tyson and Jake Paul, they're getting ready to rumble. Stepping into the ring tonight for the much-hyped match between a boxing legend and a famous YouTuber turned boxer. Tyson is now 58 years old. That's 39 years after his professional debut, 19 years after his last sanctioned fight. Jake Paul is 27 and just as famous in a different way. Celebrity on YouTube with tens of millions of followers before getting into boxing. Yesterday, the pair did what boxers do, stare each other down at a final weigh-in, which ended with Tyson slapping Paul in the face.

Joining me right now CNN Contributor Sports Broadcaster Cari Champion. I mean --

CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Juicy.

BOLDUAN: Juicy. That's exactly how we should start every segment. They -- they're both super famous.

CHAMPION: Yes.

BOLDUAN: They could not be more different?

CHAMPION: So different in so many ways. And here's what I -- everyone's saying, well, what do you think? I think the legends are saying, and they're going out of respect,

Mike Tyson's going to win this fight. But at 58 years old, I'm hard- pressed to believe that he's actually going to win this fight. The only thing I think this legend has going for him is that he is a legend. You saw what he just did. That is indicative of Mike Tyson's behavior. He felt disrespected by Paul. All games are over. And I think people are -- why are you fighting? Why are you fighting now?

BOLDUAN: That's my question.

CHAMPION: At 60 years old. Well, it's a big payday. If we're being honest, he's going to get about $20 million, reportedly, while Jake Paul will get $40. And I've said this before. Netflix is the winner here, I think, because they're trying to figure out a way to get into the sports streaming arena. And boxing, for Jake Paul's generation, I would think it would be someone like, you know, Floyd Mayweather. He is arguably going to be the most famous boxer that this generation knows. So, I mean, it's a win-win for all folks.

BOLDUAN: Why are -- I don't get -- I'm going to ask it this way. Why are so many people pumped to see this? I mean, so many people are talking about this. Even my husband, who is not a boxing fan, wanted to discuss this last night.

CHAMPION: Because of the way Mike Tyson, in my opinion, and there will be people who will disagree, but for modern times, he was the best that ever did it, one punch. Mike Tyson knocked out so many people. You could see fear in people's eyes when he would go up against them. And he, as you all know, did not have a great reputation. And he had fought so hard to get back in good graces in terms of what people thought of him. And I think, quite frankly, nowadays, you think of Mike Tyson, you think he's very gentle. He's a father.

BOLDUAN: People love that podcast.

CHAMPION: Yeah, they love the podcast.

BOLDUAN: They love the podcast.

CHAMPION: They think he's wise.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

CHAMPION: This is the man who bit Evander Holyfield's ear. He's now -- he's now wise.

BOLDUAN: I forgot he was twice. I forgot he was twice.

CHAMPION: I'm all like, when did this happen? What world do we live in? But --

BOLDUAN: But he was -- I mean, look, he was not only disliked. I mean, he was accused of horrible things. He served time for horrible things.

CHAMPION: Rape, yeah.

BOLDUAN: And then, as you said, like, then kind of spent all this time coming back and rehabbing his brand, if you will. What's this match going to do to that?

CHAMPION: I fear if he is not healthy, and this fight was postponed because he was not healthy, if he is not healthy and he loses in a very bad way, I think that will affect his legacy. He doesn't want to be considered a joke, at least for now. I think history will obviously have to tell us that. But I would hate to see him lose this in a horrible way. But people think he might actually win. I don't think there will be a knockout. But people think it might be a decision for Mike Tyson.

BOLDUAN: I mean, I know I'm watching.

CHAMPION: Yes, me too. Me too

BOLDUAN: Are you watching?

BERMAN: I'm going to be with my wife tonight. I'm not sure that I have control over whether we watch or not. I will say, I haven't watched boxing in years. I used to watch World of Sports growing up a little older than you all, and I loved it. But then it went away for a long time. It's actually back now.

[09:55:06]

CHAMPION: Yeah, yeah.

BERMAN: Not this.

CHAMPION: No.

BERMAN: Not this.

CHAMPION: Not this version.

BERMAN: Real boxing is back, and I do wonder if this will sort of obscure that.

CHAMPION: Well, I don't know if it will obscure it. But what I think it will do, boxing really needs a star, a transcendent star. And people are betting on Jake Paul. I know he's a content creator. But if he's able to do -- if this is big numbers, it will put boxing in a different arena for this generation. It's going to be back in full swing and that's what they're looking for. Mike Tyson was the greatest of all time. People paid attention.

BERMAN: Everyone has a plan.

CHAMPION: Everyone has a plan.

BERMAN: Until I get punched in the face.

CHAMPION: This is true.

SIDNER: We'll see what happens.

BOLDUAN: It's all upside for Jake Paul. It's all upside for him.

CHAMPION: Until they wear those little Versace underoos.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

SIDNER: Correct.

BERMAN: That's it. I think that means we have to go.

BOLDUAN: It's all upside when you're wearing your Versace panties. It's all I'm saying.

BERMAN: Cari Champion, thank you.

BOLDUAN: John knows well.

BERMAN: Thank you for being here.

CHAMPION: Thank you for having me. Thank you, Sara. Thank you.

BERMAN: Thank you all for joining us. This has been CNN News Central.

BOLDUAN: The last one.

BERMAN: I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan and Sara Sidner. CNN Newsroom's up next.

BOLDUAN: The Champion, the Cari Champion.

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