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Trump Team Braces For Confirmation Fights Over Controversial Picks; Trump Weighs Nominating Fierce Loyalist Kash Patel To Lead FBI; Several Lawmakers Demand Release Of House Ethics Report On Gaetz; Biden To Highlight U.S. Economic Leadership At APEC Summit; Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL) Discusses About His Take On Tulsi Gabbard's Pick For National Intelligence. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 15, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Lawmakers in both parties are demanding to see the findings of a House Ethics investigation of former congressman Matt Gaetz for allegations of sexual misconduct and illegal drug use. CNN's Kristen Holmes is joining us now.

And Kristen, bring us up to speed on these names that are emerging as possible new members of the Trump administration.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, we can start with Kash Patel because this is something that his MAGA allies are pushing. Kash is considered one of the ultimate Trump loyalists. In addition to that, he is somebody who has said time and time again that he would work to further Donald Trump's agenda in terms of dismantling the DOJ, the Department of Justice, as well as the FBI, essentially wanting to gut the entire system and rebuild it. That's something that Donald Trump cares deeply about.

Now, the one thing about Kash Patel is that he is still very controversial, even within Trump's orbit. There are a lot of people who don't believe that he should be given that kind of position of power. But obviously, we'll see how that plays out. There are also a lot of people who didn't think that Donald Trump should be nominating Matt Gaetz to be attorney general. But, lo and behold, we saw that unfold.

Now, the big question, of course, is whether or not these people can ultimately be confirmed. I just got off the phone with a senior adviser who said at the end of the day, of course, being confirmable is something that they want. They want these individuals to be confirmed through Congress. But, of course, they also know that they might not, that some of these people are incredibly controversial and they haven't cared at all about the backlash, essentially saying that these are the people Donald Trump is putting forward. We stand by those decisions. We knew that there was likely to be some blowback and we don't care at this point. We're going to see how this process plays out.

The one name you didn't mention that I do think is important to bring up was the naming of the head of the personnel department, who will also be an assistant - a special assistant to the president, which is Sergio Gor. The reason why this job is so critical, it seems like kind of a lower level administration job, but it's likely to wield an enormous amount of power. It is going to be the person who actually implements the hiring of loyalists across the administration. It's not just these big, high profile jobs like the cabinet secretary. There are also thousands of people who work in the administration.

Remember, one of Donald Trump's main goals is to essentially root out the people who are going to be disloyal to him. Root out the career officials and replace them with Trump loyalists. Sergio, who is a Trump loyalist, is going to be in charge of that, so it's definitely a space to watch as we move forward and this administration begins filling out.

KEILAR: All right, Kristen Holmes, thank you so much.

Let's talk more with former FBI Deputy Director, Andrew McCabe.

Andy Kash Patel has accused law enforcement and intelligence agencies without substantial evidence of running an unlawful vengeance campaign against Trump. Do you have concerns about potential FBI Director Kash Patel? I suspect you do.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I have a few, Brianna, as you correctly suspect. His many false statements about the FBI, his numerous conspiracy theories about FBI employees who he's routinely denigrated as members of the deep state or pursuing some unlawful agenda against Donald Trump, all that stuff together, I think, makes him - should disqualify him from the position. He's wholly unqualified for it. He has zero significant leadership experience, and I'm talking about none whatsoever.

He served, I think, maybe two, three years as a line attorney in the Department of Justice headquarters, probably supervising no one, to take over a law enforcement agency of 37,000 employees, about 12,000 of them sworn law enforcement officers, the nation's premier law enforcement agency. That is a massive responsibility, and that's why when you look back over the FBI's history, that job traditionally goes to people who have proved themselves through numerous high-level leadership jobs, U.S. attorneys, high-level DOJ people, former judges, things of that nature. Kash Patel couldn't carry the suitcases of any of those people, so it's, I think, a very, very challenging potential pick.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: Well, so let's talk about Christopher Wray, I mean, current FBI Director. Appointing any new FBI director at this point would first require firing Chris Wray. And, of course, Trump appointed him in 2017 after firing James Comey. If that happens, do you expect that to have any effect on agency morale? I mean, what is the day-to-day in a situation like that?

MCCABE: So, you know, historically, we've always - I say we - the FBI has always seen itself as different than every other government agency, partially because of this history that our directors typically bridge from one administration to the next, regardless of political party. That history, that assumption on the part of FBI employees was really shattered by the way that Jim Comey was treated by Donald Trump in his first administration. [15:05:03]

Nevertheless, the president has the authority to terminate the FBI director anytime he wants, despite the 10-year term that the FBI director serves for. I am one of these people that I always try to take Donald Trump as his word, and he has said repeatedly terrible things about Chris Wray. I think it's entirely likely that he will eliminate or fire Chris Wray if Chris is still on the job when Donald Trump becomes president. So I think it's unlikely that Director Wray will get to finish out the rest of his term, and then it's Donald Trump's, you know, prerogative to appoint whoever he wishes to fill that job.

KEILAR: You know, Andy, does it - I suspect you've thought about this, but that the point of who he is putting in place for, whether it's FBI director, and we're still waiting, of course, to see who that is, or, you know, AG, is to tick off someone exactly like yourself. Like the point is that someone like you will not like someone like he's appointing.

MCCABE: I think that's really accurate, and there's a couple of dimensions of that. First, let's remember, baseline, Donald Trump is not looking for public servants. He's looking for Trump's servants. He is looking for people who will do what he wants, when he wants it done, regardless of legality, ethics, you know, whether it's a good idea, a bad idea. He just wants people to execute his will. Kash certainly checks that box.

And secondly, I do think that Donald Trump and the people around him love this. They love the fact that we're talking about it. They think, you know, they're - this is a group of people that see experience in government as a detriment, like that excludes you from their consideration. They want to put people into positions just to be disruptors and tear things apart.

The difference between that perspective and the one that I hold is I actually believe that government serves a purpose. It exists for a purpose, and that is to serve the American people. And I think that many people who've kind of rallied around this idea of burn it all down, because everyone has frustrations with government, myself included, they don't really understand the impact that that's going to have on their lives when these institutions that do essential work for everyone quietly outside the headlines every day are eviscerated from experienced employees, disrupted, you know, infected really with politics in a way that they are not currently driven.

So I think people are going to get something, going to get a negative result that they really didn't think very much about.

JIMENEZ: And we're still waiting on any potential official nomination there, but also the nomination process, confirmation, a whole separate ballgame? Maybe. We will see. Andrew McCabe, really appreciate you being here.

We're also following - speaking to Capitol Hill - divisions that have been growing between some House and Senate Republicans on releasing the House Ethics Committee's report on former congressman, Matt Gaetz.

KEILAR: And, today, House Speaker Mike Johnson said that he would ask the committee not to release the report covering allegations of sexual misconduct and illegal drug use. But when speaking to CNN today, GOP senator, Mike Rounds, said he wants the report made available.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): We should be able to get a hold of it and we should have access to it one way or another based on the way that we do all of these nominations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And joining us now to discuss is CNN Senior Political Commentator, Van Jones, and Republican strategist, Shermichael Singleton.

Shermichael, do you think this report should come out considering there is actually precedent for it to come out?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think the Senate and the House are going to have to negotiate on this. I mean, I think we're seeing a significant increase in Republican senators, according to our reporting, that are saying we want to see more details before we can make a determination if this person should make it out of committee, let alone go before the entire body of the Senate.

The question becomes, though, is the president elect willing to expend political capital to get Matthew Gaetz across the finish line? I'm not sure yet. I mean, he's selected some good individuals, some individuals that have been a bit controversial. We've discussed them. But I think for the most part, the Senate is likely to pass and confirm most of them.

Gaetz is a bit controversial. So, again, my question for the President-elect is, do you want to expend political capital this early on? Do you want to have a solid relationship with the Senate to sort of focus on some fundamental things you want to get across in the first 90 to 100 days? Or do you want to say, you know what, this isn't worth it. There are more priorities that I think the Senate is going to stand with me by. I'll choose someone else. That's the question he's going to have to figure out.

JIMENEZ: And we have seen in cases before in history where nominees are obviously pulled beforehand. No indication that's going to happen yet. But if there's an indication that there aren't the votes there from the Republican senators needed, we've seen that.

SINGLETON: (INAUDIBLE) those four.

JIMENEZ: Exactly.

SINGLETON: (INAUDIBLE) those four.

JIMENEZ: It's close.

Van, I want to bring you in here because, I mean, what is your read on Speaker Mike Johnson saying he's asking the House Ethics Committee not to release the report?

[15:10:06]

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's inexcusable. I mean, you're talking about someone who's going to have tremendous, tremendous powers, almost impossible to describe the amount of power that's going to be handed to Gaetz. You want to know everything about him. If it turns out this report has mostly good stuff and a few little mistakes he's made, I think the American people can be quite forgiving.

But if it turns out that he has a drug problem, that he has a prostitute problem, that he has a child molestation problem, these are things that should be known because those things could be used to bribe him, to extort him. Those are the things that I think the American people need to have access to.

Who is Speaker Johnson protecting?

He's not protecting the American people by keeping this information away from the lawmakers that have to make a very tough decision in a few weeks.

KEILAR: And Van, your thoughts on Kash Patel being considered for FBI director?

JONES: I mean, it's a joke. I mean, it's just a joke. Where are the patriots? Where are America's patriots? You know, you're now talking about people who are completely incompetent, who most American business owners wouldn't hire to run a taco stand, being put in charge of the FBI. America's government works. What problem are we trying to solve here?

Go to any other country. You come back here, you're glad to be here because so much of what we put in place, our parents put in place, our grandparents put in place, works. You have to believe something that's not true, that somehow America is like falling apart and all these terrible people doing all these terrible things. What problem you - what problem can you possibly solve by putting Kash Patel in charge of literally anything?

This is a joke. This is an insult. And I think even Republican voters should be insulted and just say, we do - America's government should be respected. It should be populated by people who respect America's government and who are basically competent. And Kash Patel fails that test and would fail that test for almost any job in America.

JIMENEZ: And yes, you seem to be - you want to respond.

SINGLETON: No, I agree with Van that, you know, the government should be respected. But let's go over the history of the FBI, shall we? The FBI investigated Dr. King, frivolous nonsense. The FBI even investigated the late singer Aretha Franklin. The FBI targeted and investigated members of BLM. The FBI, in my opinion, does not have a great record in history of necessarily serving all of the American people.

So as far as I'm concerned, if you want to send someone in to sort of shake that place up, be a disruptor, I am actually not necessarily against that. I agree with Van in terms of wanting someone to lead the agency well. But the FBI does not have the greatest record in the world of representing and protecting all Americans, maybe some Americans, but certainly not Americans who look like Van and I and you as well, Omar.

So again, if you want to bring someone to challenge and get this place in order, then I'm - again, I would support that, even if it is Kash Patel.

KEILAR: You think - and you think that's Kash Patel's agenda?

SINGLETON: I would say, Brianna - I would say if Kash Patel is going to go in and shake that place up and say, you guys have not necessarily done a fine job, again, I think you'd find a lot of Americans who would say, you know what, the FBI is not a perfect organization. Why not?

JIMENEZ: You're shaking your head, Van. What's up?

JONES: Let me tell you, I'm appalled to hear my brother saying this. Yes, the FBI has done some bad things. There's not a single bad thing the FBI has done that Kash Patel would represent a great advance over. And let's not forget, I mean, you know, we're in bad shape when Van Jones, a liberal Democrat, is defending the FBI.

But let's not forget, a lot of (INAUDIBLE) crime solved and not have, you know, drug cartels. The FBI solves (INAUDIBLE) for you and I to get out of bed in the morning. And if you put a completely unqualified person in charge, you can't say you're for law and order. If you put a completely unqualified person in charge, you can't say you're for peaceful and safe streets when the people who are in charge of that are going to be incompetent.

Kash Patel is incompetent. You would not hire Kash Patel to do anything in your company. And that at a certain point, yes, we want change, but change has to be done in a good way by responsible people, not in a bad way by incompetent people.

SINGLETON: But you know, Van is right. We do care about law and order and it should be led by responsible people. But the, quote-unquote, "responsible" people haven't necessarily addressed some of the issues that I raised. I mean, investigating, and illegally targeting, and spying on activists that were part of BLM ...

KEILAR: But that's not what we're talking ...

SINGLETON: ... was just recent years ago, Brianna.

KEILAR: ... we're not talking about that, Shermichael. SINGLETON: No, no, but ...

KEILAR: That's not the conversation we're even having.

SINGLETON: ... no, no, I get that, but the point that I'm making ...

KEILAR: You're - it's like we're talking about something else and you're literally going in a different direction.

SINGLETON: No, no, no, it's very relevant. The relevancy here is if you're going to say that the FBI is led or should be led by these great responsible people.

[15:15:01]

My critique is these very great and responsible people have had a whole lot of faults that a whole lot of people would say, I don't think they're great. I don't think they're very responsible. That's the critique that I'm providing here.

JONES: But Kash Patel would be more likely to investigate Black Lives Matter than anybody else. Kash Patel would be more likely to be an enemy of Dr. King than anybody else. Kash Patel is not some great civil rights champion. You're not talking about John Lewis. If you could - if want to dig up John Lewis and put him in there, I'd be for it. But Kash Patel has no record on stuff you're talking about.

You guys would just have to dig up excuses for stuff that's inexcusable. This dude should not be in charge of the FBI, you know it and everybody else know it.

SINGLETON: Can it - but Van, can it be any worse than ...

JONES: This is Donald Trump controlling everybody and risking American safety.

SINGLETON: But Van, can it be any worse than Christopher Wray to the critiques that you just - the rebuttal you just made to my argument?

JONES: Yes, absolutely. Guys like Christopher Wray is like Ronald McDonald. He's actually a serious guy. Kash Patel is not.

SINGLETON: Serious guy who, again, also had his agents investigate activists that were members of BLM.

JIMENEZ: And so, look ...

SINGLETON: (INAUDIBLE) ...

JIMENEZ: ... we could go on with this for a while, especially when it comes to reform of the FBI. But I do also want to say there are many agents who are actually doing good work ...

SINGLETON: Oh, there's some great ones - great ones.

JIMENEZ: ... assisting local and state law enforcement in many operations they've got going on. The question, though, is would this new era of leadership fix some of the very real issues that we've talked about? Shermichael Singleton, good to see you. Van Jones, you the same. Come in person next time. It'll be a little more livelier. Good to see you, man.

KEILAR: That was pretty lively, though.

JIMENEZ: Yes, exactly.

JONES: (INAUDIBLE) ...

JIMENEZ: All right. We got a lot to cover here. Still to come, as he prepares to depart office in a couple of months, President Biden is attending the last APEC Summit of his presidency. We're going to take a look at his message to the world next.

KEILAR: Plus, a new Texas Supreme Court ruling clears the way for a new execution day for the man convicted of killing his two-year-old daughter in a so-called shaken baby case. Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:21:21]

JIMENEZ: A late arrival earlier today for President Biden at his last APEC Summit in Peru. It's part of what is likely his last major world trip as American president. APEC stands for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation. It's a group of 21 economies that make up roughly 60 percent of global GDP. And on the sidelines of the summit, President Biden will have his final face-to-face with Chinese President Xi Jinping. CNN Senior White House Correspondent, Kayla Tausche is in Peru following President Biden.

So can you just give us the latest on President Biden's agenda here?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Omar, President Biden right now is meeting with the leaders of Japan and South Korea, a trilateral partnership that is one of the hallmarks of his foreign policy. It began last year with a summit at Camp David, where President Biden gathered these two countries who have a rather acrimonious history together for what the Biden administration now hopes will be an institutionalized relationship that will outlast President Biden after he leaves office. They're discussing matters of regional security and stability in the South China Sea, the Taiwan Strait and the broader Indo-Pacific.

But, of course, one of the most highly watched meetings over the course of the next week is his meeting tomorrow with Chinese President Xi Jinping. We understand they'll be discussing regulation of artificial intelligence, efforts to curb illicit fentanyl and military-level communication that they sought to set in place at the bilateral meeting they held outside California at the APEC Summit last year.

But we expect that it will be more of a reflection on the U.S.-China relationship and the efforts that both countries took over the last four years to try to keep competition from spilling over into conflict. But, of course, the backdrop to this is that potential conflict awaits, with President-elect Donald Trump threatening widespread tariffs of up to 60 percent on all goods that China imports into the United States.

And the expectation is that could come early in Trump's term. But we expect that the interaction between Biden and Xi will be cordial, will be high-level, even if the deliverables will be scant. Now, it's a rather quiet trip for Biden here on the world stage. Traditionally, his schedule is packed with these meetings, with press conferences, with speeches. And it's quite different this time, now that he is going out of office.

We expect that he will be delivering a speech in the Amazon rainforest on climate conservation. But it's really now about burnishing his legacy, even as that legacy is about to be impacted by his successor. Omar?

JIMENEZ: Kayla Tausche, thank you so much. Brianna?

KEILAR: Let's talk now with Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi of Illinois. He is the top Democrat on the House Committee on competition between the United States and China's Communist Party. And he's also on the Oversight and, very importantly, the Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, to be clear, I do want to give people a sense of where you've been on some of these picks by the President-elect. You've called Mike Waltz and Marco Rubio credible picks for the positions they've been nominated for. But as a member of the Intelligence Committee, what is your concern about Tulsi Gabbard as the pick for director of National Intelligence?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Well, I think the issue is this, which is that to the extent that there's information of a negative kind of past conduct or negative information or derogatory information that has been denied by any of these picks, whether it's Matt Gaetz or anyone else, and a foreign adversary were to gain knowledge of it, which often happens through cyber hacking and surveillance, then those people could be subject to blackmail, and they would then pose a counterintelligence risk for us.

[15:25:04]

And given that they have access to the crown jewels in terms of exquisite information that our Intelligence Community gathers, that would be something that our foreign adversaries would very much want to get. And we would never want someone who could potentially be compromised in the positions for which these folks are being nominated.

KEILAR: Do you think Tulsi Gabbard is a candidate to be compromised by a foreign country?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I don't know. But I think that we're going to learn a lot during the confirmation hearings. She's going to be asked some very tough questions. Matt Gaetz, on the other hand, I absolutely think that there's a lot of derogatory information out there with regard to potential crimes that he's committed, whether it's on the sex trafficking front or the use of illicit narcotics and so forth. And I think that, you know, we have to think twice and three times about whether someone like that should ever be nominated, let alone confirmed to the position as the top law enforcement official in our country.

KEILAR: I do want to ask you more about Gabbard, but just on the Gaetz point, do you think that the Ethics Committee report - he did resign - do you think the report on allegations of sexual misconduct and drug use will come out?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think somehow it will. I think that this will be something that the senators who are confirming him will demand and somehow receive. If for some reason they don't get it, then they're going to assume the adverse inference that the allegations are true with regard to these issues, in which case he should not be confirmed.

I don't think that he should have been nominated, but certainly he should not be confirmed. And I know of many Republicans who feel the exact same way I do.

KEILAR: Okay. So, I just asked you if you thought Tulsi Gabbard was at risk of being compromised by a foreign country. You said you don't know. In 2019, as Gabbard was running for the Democratic nomination, Hillary Clinton notably went so far as to say that the Russians were grooming her. I want to play what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON: I'm not making any predictions, but I think they've got their eye on somebody who's currently in the Democratic primary and are grooming her to be the third party candidate. She's a favorite of the Russians. They have a bunch of sites and bots and other ways of supporting her so far and that's assuming Jill Stein will give it up, which she might not, because she's also a Russian ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.

CLINTON: ... asset.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right. So Clinton's spokesperson later confirmed she was talking about Gabbard there. It's a serious charge. She's not the only one who's made it. We had Tammy Duckworth on yesterday. She said that Gabbard was somebody who'd been compromised. Why are we hearing this from Democrats?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, I'd like to look at the information a little more. I think there are various charges. But on the other hand, I also think that there's a chance to respond, and I haven't heard her responses. What I'm most concerned about, however, is that there may not even be a confirmation hearing if the majority leader or the incoming majority leader in the Senate (INAUDIBLE) ...

KEILAR: I just - I want - I just want to go back to this, because I think this is really important, Congressman. We've heard many people either say this is true, you say you're not sure. I mean, and just to be clear, do you believe that - even if you can't disclose it, do you believe that there's information? I mean, is this what people are talking about on The Hill, that there's information indicating this thing? Like, clue us in, because the American people deserve to know.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think there's a lot of speculation right now. And I think that this is one of those things where we need to have some answers. We need to know exactly what is going on. But I'm very concerned about some of her statements that she's made, especially with regard to Assad and other rulers abroad and her trip to Syria. And so I think she needs to answer these questions.

KEILAR: Okay. And so let's go through those, she blamed the Biden administration for provoking Russia into invading Ukraine. She said they wanted Russia to invade Ukraine. Then she called U.S. sanctions against Russia a modern-day siege against Russia and the Russian people. In 2017, there was that House vote to hold Syrian dictator and Russian ally Bashar al-Assad accountable for war crimes. She was the only Democrat to vote no. As you mentioned, she went and visited him. She didn't disclose who paid for the trip. She visited with him twice on that trip. Is it just - is it those things that have you posing these questions?

[15:30:02]

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes, I think that - look, there's one possibility that she's expressing an opinion about various things, and they're kind of crazy opinions.