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Reporting Indicates Elon Musk Clashing with Some of Donald Trump's Advisers; Elon Musk Publicly Backing Howard Lutnick over Scott Bessent for Trump's Pick as Treasury Secretary; Rep. Josh Gottheimer Interviewed on Democratic Leadership after Trump Electoral Victory and His Bid for New Jersey Governor; Florida Court Fight Gives Insight Into House Review Of Sex Allegations Against Matt Gaetz; Biden Allows Ukraine to Use Long-Range US Weapons in Russia. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 18, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jordan Neely and who felt that their lives were in danger. Some witnesses have testified to that effect.

We're also expecting to hear from a psychiatric expert who will talk about whether or not Jordan Neely's use of K2, which was found in his body following the autopsy, had anything to do with the way this incident unfolded. Over the next few days, we expect to hear more expert testimony from the defense.

And the big question, John, is whether or not Daniel Penny will take the stand. As of last night, his defense team told me that that will be a game time decision. They are still waiting to see whether or not it will be a good idea to put their client on the stand. John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, keep us posted as events unfold throughout the day. Gloria Pazmino, thank you very much.

Brand new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening right now, President Biden at his final G20 summit in Brazil. The policy and posturing among world leaders now after Donald Trump's decisive victory and Biden's major announcement on Ukraine as he's headed for the exits.

And there's new pressure today to publicize details from investigations into one of Donald Trump's top cabinet picks, that man, Matt Gaetz. What really is in that House Ethics report into allegations of underage sex and drug use by the Florida Republican, and how hard are Republicans and Democrats ready to fight over it?

Sean "Diddy" Combs being accused now by prosecutors of trying to obstruct their investigation and taint the jury pool, all from behind bars.

I'm Kate Bolduan with Sara Sidner and John Berman, and this is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, developing this morning, reports

that new first best friend Elon Musk is starting to irritate President-elect Trump's advisers. During a dinner at Mar-a-Lago, "Axios" reports a heated confrontation between Musk and Trump adviser and attorney Boris Epshteyn. They write, quote, "At one point during what the sources described as a massive blowup, Musk accused Epshteyn of leaking details of Trump's transition, including personnel picks, to the media. Epshteyn responded by telling Musk that he didn't know what he was talking about."

This comes amid new reports that Musk is also becoming a source of infighting in the Trump transition team surrounding the choice for Treasury Secretary. Musk is backing Trump transition co-chair and fellow billionaire Howard Lutnick for the job, while Trump's advisers are pushing for hedge fund CEO Scott Bessent. The billionaire not only putting his two or ten cents in, but also asking his more than 200 million followers to weigh in. He posted to Twitter, quote, "Would be interesting to hear more people weigh in on this for @realDonaldTrump to consider feedback. My view, for what it's worth, is Bessent is a business as usual choice, whereas Howard Lutnick will actually enact change. Business as usual is driving America bankrupt. We need change one way or another."

With us now is national political correspondent for "Politico" Meridith McGraw. You know, it's pretty interesting. So Musk is in the room where it happens a lot of time, but he's also tweeting from outside the room trying to influence things.

MEREDITH MCGRAW, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "POLITICO": Well, it's not just Musk who has inserted himself into the transition. It's really Trump's whole early kitchen cabinet here, advisors, people, Mar-a-Lago members, friends that are weighing in. But Musk is spending a lot of time with Donald Trump since he got elected. He's been an ever-present person at Trump's side at his club. He's sitting in on meetings. He's traveling with him like he did this weekend to the professional UFC fight in New York City. And he is spending a lot of time with Trump. He's giving his insight and input on some of these picks, including most recently, treasury secretary, which is one of the last really big remaining cabinet picks that Trump has yet to announce. And there's already been some infighting behind the scenes and jockeying between different potential candidates, including Howard Lutnick, who is currently co-chair of Trump's transition, hedge fund CEO Scott Bessent, and some other dark horse candidates who have now, their names have come up because of this back and forth and different people getting involved in the process.

BERMAN: Any sign that Trump would go against Musk at this point? Have we seen an area yet where the two have disagreed, where Trump won another way?

MCGRAW: I don't know about that.

[08:05:00]

But certainly, Trump is really, you know, taking his input seriously. He is keeping him around. He is involved in a lot of these different meetings. Musk came with Trump to Washington D.C. last week when Trump on the plane made the decision that he was going to appoint Matt Gaetz to his attorney general. But other people who have been around Trump include, of course, Susie Wiles, Linda McMahon, who is also co- chairing the transition, Howard Lutnick. And then a lot of aides and advisers who are around him as well, too.

BERMAN: All right, Meridith McGraw from "Politico", thanks so much for being with us this morning. Sara?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you so much, John.

With us now is Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey, who just days ago announced he's running for governor of New Jersey. I want to talk to you about this. Thank you so much for being here this morning. Trump just weeks ago lost --

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Thanks for having me.

SIDNER: -- it's great to see you -- by a historically narrow margin. We haven't seen this in decades of only five percent. Four years ago against Biden, Trump lost by 16 point margin in the garden state. Congressman, when you look at those numbers in a reliably blue New Jersey for the first time in decades basically putting up swing state like numbers, how do you explain that?

GOTTHEIMER: Listen, my lawn signs on all my campaigns going back to 2016 have always said lower taxes, Jersey values on them. And I think one reason why we had a good night last week, even though it was a very tough night for the country, is one thing. I think people want leaders who are going to make their lives more affordable, that are fighting every single day to get their health care costs down, get their childcare costs down, the cost of food and their taxes down. And you know, that's what I've always focused on. And I think we need to get back to basics a bit here. Obviously, always fighting for Jersey values and making sure we protect things like reproductive freedom and stand up for clean air and clean water and commonsense gun safety. But we also have to make sure we communicate to people that we're about getting their backs and getting their costs down. Thats why I'm running as the lower taxes, lower cost governor, because for me, it's all about making people's lives more affordable.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you, if you do win the governorship, would you join that group?

GOTTHEIMER: When I win.

(LAUGHTER)

SIDNER: I know you're saying when you win, but I have to say if. We don't know until the election happens. But there is a group of governors, Democratic governors, who are coordinating with one another to oppose Trump's rightwing policies in their respective states in any way that they can. And so far, that group involves, like, the governor of Illinois, of Colorado, California. So the question to you is, do you think that you would join that group? GOTTHEIMER: Well, I think that as Governor Murphy, my governor, has

said, is you want to stand up and fight for Jersey, and whether that's fighting President-Elect Trump or fighting anyone who messes with Jersey, when the time is right and making sure we protect things like reproductive freedom and stand strong for the environment and making sure our climate is safe.

But also you want to work together when it makes sense. You know I co- chair this group called the Problem Solvers Caucus with Democrats and Republicans. And my feeling is always if it's good for Jersey and the people I represent, the families here and leads up to our values, we should work with folks. But obviously stand up to him when we need to protect the families of Jersey. And I think that's the approach any governor should take, or, frankly, any elected official.

SIDNER: All right, Donald Trump is promising to use the military to help with his plan for mass deportations. What do you make of this? What are the pitfalls? Or do you support it?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, I think the idea of rounding people up is not something our country is about. Making sure that we have obviously strong, safe borders makes sense, and have people here who live up to our values.

But what I want to get back to and I think is really important, and I think as we look at all these, we're mentioning all these nominees, is you want to make sure they're going to do everything every single day to protect our country and to stand up for the values we believe in. And I and I think that's ultimately what we should be making all these decisions about.

We're a great country, the greatest in the world. And we want to make sure we do everything we can to come together and work together to advance and protect our country. And I think whether you're talking about nominees or policies, that's how we should look at things.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you about some reporting that has come out in "Axios" this morning where their headline is that Democrats are sick of Nancy Pelosi. When you see a headline like that, obviously people talking about their frustrations, do Democrats need new leadership?

GOTTHEIMER: We have an unbelievable leader in Hakeem Jefferies who is our Democratic leader and a very dear friend of mine. So I'm very proud. And by the way, Hakeem has done an incredible job and will continue to be, I know he's going to continue to be our leader and we're going to -- we're all getting behind him unanimously, and I think that's the way it should be.

[08:10:03]

Listen, I think as a party, what's most important and where you started this conversation is making sure we remind people that if you look at our record, what's been very clear is we fight to make sure people's lives are more affordable, infrastructure to fix the roads and bridges and make sure we take care of them there, and getting the price of health care and drugs down, those are all things we've fought for and gotten done. I think the bottom line is we have to make sure we remind people this is getting back to basics, that that's what we've done. That's what we stand for, is helping folks out.

Obviously, we've got big fights ahead. I'm going to do everything to restore the state and local tax deduction, or SALT, to get taxes down here in Jersey, again, to make life more affordable. I think we've got to do everything to expand the child tax credit and get the cost of childcare down and health care and do more to get the cost of housing down. These are things that clearly last week were top of mind for folks and their concerns. And it's something that I've always been fighting for. I think we've got to do a better job making sure that everyone knows that's what the Democratic Party is about first and foremost.

SIDNER: Congressman Josh Gottheimer, thank you so much for getting up early and coming on the show. Appreciate you.

GOTTHEIMER: Thanks for having me.

SIDNER: Kate?

BOLDUAN: So the House Ethics report on Matt Gaetz, it may never see the light of day. But a civil lawsuit in Florida could provide some insight into the underage sex and drug allegations at the center of that allegation -- investigation. We have new reporting on that.

And at least one death and dozens of people are sick across multiple states, 18 states, now believed to be linked to organic carrots.

And just in time for the holiday travel season, unfortunately, Spirit Airlines is declaring bankruptcy. What's not clear, how it will impact travelers.

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[08:16:20]

BERMAN: New, this morning we are getting new insight into some of the evidence in the House Ethics Committee investigation into now former Congressman Matt Gaetz, Donald Trump's pick to be the next attorney general of the United States.

House members poured over testimony that was part of a Florida civil case, including some reportedly explicit witness accounts. Gaetz was investigated over sexual misconduct and illegal drug use allegations. Gaetz has denied those allegations.

Let's get right to CNN's senior crime and justice reporter, Katelyn Polantz. So, what's going on here, Katelyn, what has been learned and by whom exactly?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, so some of what the House Ethics Committee has learned, John, comes from a lawsuit in Florida where witnesses, young women were making statements under oath. The same women who also participated in the criminal inquiry against Matt Gaetz.

These women were at a party in 2017 where an alleged sexual encounter with an underage girl took place and they've never spoken publicly about what was happening, including potentially with Gaetz.

But in a deposition of a man who brought the lawsuit. This is a friend of Matt Gaetz, attorneys asked him about what the women were saying in their depositions about a then underage girl having sex with Matt Gaetz while his friend watched, about an array of drugs at the party.

The friend of Matt Gaetz, Christopher Dorworth, suggested in his testimony that the women were making up their stories. And of course, Matt Gaetz is denying any wrongdoing, and he was never charged with any crime.

But a source familiar with these Congressional Investigations told CNN that if the House Ethics Committee's work includes information from this litigation, presumably the part that's still secret, what the women were saying it would be "highly damaging" for Gaetz.

Of course, the House wasn't able to get access to records from the Justice Department's criminal investigation. So now, there's pressure mounting in Washington on the House Ethics Committee. Their work ended whenever Gaetz was announced as Trump's nominee for the Justice Department last week, and then resigned from Congress meaning the report's release, it's now in jeopardy.

But here's Speaker Mike Johnson assessing the situation over the weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): My understanding is that the report is not finished. It's in a rough draft form, was not yet ready to be released, and since Matt Gaetz left the Congress, I don't think it's appropriate to do so.

There have been I understand, I think, two exceptions to the rule over the whole history of Congress and the history of the Ethics Committee, but I wasn't the speaker at that time. I'm the speaker now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: He's the speaker now, John, back to you.

BERMAN: And just to be clear, it is Republicans, some in the Senate actually calling to see the results of this investigation. So, it is sort of bipartisan call so far. Katelyn Polantz, thank you very much for that -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, disgraced and charged music mogul Sean "Diddy" Combs could be in more trouble. Now, prosecutors now say that he is trying to taint the jury pool and obstruct their investigation from behind bars.

And Russia accuses the US of throwing oil on the fire. The White House, now responding saying Russia, lit the fire as President Biden finally greenlights Ukraine to use US long-range weapons to strike deep inside Russia.

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[08:23:49]

BERMAN: This morning, President Biden has authorized Ukraine to use long range US weapons inside Russian territory for the first time.

With us now, Evelyn Farkas, executive director of the McCain institute former deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia and Ukraine. Also, here with us, CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger, White House and National Security correspondent for "The New York Times."

So, why these long-range weapons, David? Why now, with such little time left in the Biden administration?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, you may remember, John, that it was a few months ago that for the first time, the president allowed attacks into Russia just along the border to stop the Russians from firing into Ukraine.

At the time, he was under huge pressure including from President Zelenskyy of Ukraine, to allow deep strike. And it is only now happening, as you say, in the last few weeks of the administration, because of the North Korean troops that are being sent by the Russians into this region and the US felt it had to respond.

It's not clear that there are enough of these weapons or that the timing of this is such that it's going to make a big strategic difference. But the Ukrainians know everything has shifted now because with President Trump coming in they're likely to be forced into a negotiation over what land.

BERMAN: Evelyn, how important is this battle in Kursk? And I don't know if we have a map, we can show people. This is Russian territory we're talking about here. This is where the Ukrainians have staged an incursion into Russia, they're holding Russian territory. How important is it for Ukraine to hang on to this Russian territory as long as they can?

[08:25:27]

EVELYN FARKAS, FORMER DEPARTMENT ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR RUSSIA/UKRAINE/EURASIA: That's right, John. So, first of all, it's really a bargaining chip, this piece of territory, President Zelenskyy himself said when they occupied it or when they took it, that we are not an occupying force. We're not trying to take this territory the way Russia is trying to take our territory and our sovereignty.

He was pretty clear, he said at the time we want to get some prisoners so we can do a prisoner exchange. And they did that. So now, he needs it as a bargaining chip because frankly, he doesn't have much leverage if he's forced to go to the negotiating table by, say President-elect Trump and others. He doesn't have much to bargain with. This would be something he could bargain with.

But as you've pointed out, and as David said, there are 10,000 North Koreans in there. It looks like Russia's going to try to make an effort, which they haven't done yet, to take that territory back.

BERMAN: You say if he is forced to the negotiating table. It feels like that may be inevitable and Zelenskyy may think it's inevitable at this point.

Olaf Scholz, the German Chancellor called Vladimir Putin on Friday. Zelenskyy didn't like that one bit, Evelyn.

FARKAS: Yes, he didn't because he felt that it showed weakness on the part of his partners, the United States and NATO countries, you know, reaching out to Putin, who has been diplomatically isolated by us, at least, maybe not by the entire world.

And so, President Zelenskyy did not like that he does know, however, that he's likely to have to engage in some kind of effort at achieving a peace because President Trump's been pretty clear on that. He wants peace and he's going to find a way to make it.

The open question is whether it will be a just peace, whether President Trump can pull this off.

And we know that he wants to do it. He probably wants a Nobel Peace Prize. And if he can get a just peace for Ukraine with real security guarantees, that would be worthy of a Nobel Prize.

BERMAN: So, David, these next, what are we, two months away now from Donald Trump's inauguration, what can Ukraine do in these two months? How important are these next two months for them?

SANGER: The best they can hope, as Evelyn suggested is, gain something that would give them leverage at the bargaining table. The key to this bargaining, John, is this, if President Trump comes in and calls Putin and says okay, what do you need, Vlad? And he's going to say, I need the 20 percent of the country that I'm already occupying as a start and no entry ever for NATO for Ukraine.

And then Trump calls Zelenskyy and says, do I have a bargain for you, right? You can end the war and just give up your territory.

Now, that might be the end of Zelenskyy politically. The big issue here is if that's where we're headed anyway, does it make a difference whether the US forces it on the Ukrainians or whether Zelenskyy gets there in his own negotiation?

Remember what President Biden has said is nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine, no imposed solutions. And frankly that doesn't look like where it is headed.

BERMAN: So, where's Europe right now? As we said, Olaf Scholz, the German chancellor called Vladimir Putin for the first long time in a long time on Friday.

SANGER: Yes.

BERMAN: Where do they see things headed and what are they willing to do to influence it?

SANGER: So, the European concern here has been that if there is territorial gain for the Russians out of this, Putin will stop, reset, wait a little while and then try to take the rest of Ukraine. They also worry that under President Trump, who has said, you know, if you haven't paid into NATO the way I want, the Russians can do whatever the hell they wish.

I think that was his -- just about his exact words, that the Russians are going to test that with a smaller member of NATO and just see whether President Trump, having established the precedent that he's willing to give away territory, would say, I'm not going to go fight for Lithuania, Estonia, or something like that.

BERMAN: Dicey times for the Ukrainians right now with the world waiting and watching to see what happens.

David Sanger, Evelyn Farkas, our thanks to both of you -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, ahead, tornadoes, earthquakes, wildfires, disasters you hear about all the time in the West and Midwest now impacting another part of the country. How climate change is fueling a year of unusual extremes for New Yorkers.

And team Trump has been touting their huge mandate from the American people. But as the final vote count comes in, is that mandate shrinking, that's ahead.

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